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cross bow once more... (Read 9878 times)
CanDo
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #15 - May 12th, 2006 at 7:06am
 
1cm steel bar will twist a lot more than a 2x8 Undecided
Good for reinforcement anyway..... and at least it won't snap into shrapnel.

Depending on the size, I was planning on doubling up 2x8's with bolts and nuts. Many vertical braces as well.
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #16 - May 13th, 2006 at 5:45am
 
2 1/2 feet!? That's too long, not too short.  For a crossbow with an 8 inch draw, I'd use a prod of just under 20 inches.  Make it very thick, and taper it well.  Some people say that is too short, but my crossbows definitely work.
  Most crossbow prods in Europe were actually made of wood until the late 14th century - the wooden prods were a lot cheaper than composite or steel bows, both of which take vast amounts of time and skill to make perfectly.  Composite crossbows were far from rare, and the draw length could be drastically reduced, but a wooden prod would be typical, and should be short.  Think about it, DtB - the draw length of a normal bow is just a little bit under half the length of the bow itself.  Why not the same for crossbow prods?  Wooden prods are mentioned as a majority of the crossbows produced certainly in England until about 1450, according to Alm.
  In south-east Asia, tribesmen have used crossbows with disproportinately long prods, but they are not efficient.  Or wieldy.  Chinese crossbows have most often used self-prods or bamboo laminate prods with long drawlengths compared to European crossbows.  They are more efficient, I believe, with a longer drawlength.
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Douglas_The_Black
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #17 - May 13th, 2006 at 9:27pm
 
20 inches?! interesting thats a tiny prod there Smiley I based my first cross bow on the pic you showed of yours, how thick is yours? this short prod i just made is about 1/2 an inch thick at its thickest. Too thinn maybe? It would be great if you could get a pic of the short prods Smiley
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #18 - May 14th, 2006 at 6:12am
 
All my European crossbows - so all the crossbows I've shown so far - have really short prods.  They should still be up.  20 inches is more than enough.  It's within safe parameters, and it's totally efficient.  Half an inch is quite thick, depending on the width of the bow.  I couldn't tell you how thick it should be, of course - I don't know what the wood is like, what draw weight you want... etc.  Just do it like a normal bow, just make it short.
  Think about it though: 8 inches is obviously 2 inches less than half 20 inches.  2 inches is ten percent of the length of the prod, and a bow should be about 9 tenths bent according to many English bowmakers.  Bear in mind too that the string on a crossbow, especially a wooden-prod crossbow, is slightly slack, or at least, nowhere near as tight as on a handbow.  There should be practically no tension.  A short prod, therefore, is absolutely fine.  I've had no broken prods that were made properly.
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #19 - May 14th, 2006 at 9:56am
 
hmm so if they are slightly slack can i leave them strung?
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #20 - May 14th, 2006 at 10:04am
 
Yeah, pretty much.  As long as there is practically no tension on the bow itself, then yep, keep them strung.
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #21 - May 14th, 2006 at 6:12pm
 
huh thats cool.  Smiley I was always afraide of the bow following the string Smiley
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #22 - May 14th, 2006 at 9:12pm
 
Why is the prod more efficient when it is shorter?
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #23 - May 14th, 2006 at 9:26pm
 
More energy can be spent moving the bolt instead of having to move heavier limbs.
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #24 - May 17th, 2006 at 3:10pm
 
Actually, I don't think the shorter prod is more efficient.  You can just get more brute force packed into a smaller bow.  Just thicken it, and taper it a little (this is a very rough science), and attach a truly huge string.  The longer bow's tips would have more time to reach maximum velocity and hence be more efficient, but efficiency is not really necessary here, where you don't need to keep poundage down to around 50 pounds.
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #25 - May 18th, 2006 at 4:37pm
 
Hello.
I have made 6 crossbows. One with steel bow and the others with wood bows.
I normaly use pine wood for bows, and it works well.
One problem with this kind of wood is that it must be over 1 meter in lenght, or it will breake.
I have used bamboowood for one of the crossbows and it worked great. It was only 80 cm long.
The steelbow I used was 65 cm long, and it was nice to shoot with.
The steelbow type I made, had a rolling nut type, and it had a long steel triger.
All the others was viking (peg type) crossbows. They where made as copys of the old whale crossbows (yes they where used for hunting whales Shocked)
I make and sel crossbows, but here in Norway it is a limited marked. Modern crossbow types is illegal here in Norway, but copys of the old types is OK (if I understand the law right Wink)
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #26 - May 18th, 2006 at 8:29pm
 
Rebel, definitely invest in a piece of hardwood! From all my experiences with Pine, you're very lucky or very skilled. Do you know what weight the pine draws at?
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #27 - May 19th, 2006 at 11:26am
 
Hello CanDo.
If I understand your question right, you wonder how powerful I make my crossbows.
I have never mesured the strength of the bows, but my last crossbow (with pine bow) is very hard to pul back.
I put a stear up (spelling?) in front of the crossbow for aiding when puling back the string.
I make the string out of linen string (the total string thickness is about 1 cm.)
The total length of the bow was 110 cm, and had a linen and leather backing glued on.
The tiller stock is about 70 cm long, and the distance from the bow to the lock is about 30 cm.
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #28 - May 19th, 2006 at 7:06pm
 
Quote:
2 1/2 feet!? That's too long, not too short.  For a crossbow with an 8 inch draw, I'd use a prod of just under 20 inches.  Make it very thick, and taper it well.  Some people say that is too short, but my crossbows definitely work.
 Most crossbow prods in Europe were actually made of wood until the late 14th century - the wooden prods were a lot cheaper than composite or steel bows, both of which take vast amounts of time and skill to make perfectly.  Composite crossbows were far from rare, and the draw length could be drastically reduced, but a wooden prod would be typical, and should be short.  Think about it, DtB - the draw length of a normal bow is just a little bit under half the length of the bow itself.  Why not the same for crossbow prods?  Wooden prods are mentioned as a majority of the crossbows produced certainly in England until about 1450, according to Alm.
 In south-east Asia, tribesmen have used crossbows with disproportinately long prods, but they are not efficient.  Or wieldy.  Chinese crossbows have most often used self-prods or bamboo laminate prods with long drawlengths compared to European crossbows.  They are more efficient, I believe, with a longer drawlength.  



9/10ths bent?! What the heck does that mean? That makes no sense. For the length of a longer bendy handle bow, take your drawlength, double it, then add at least 20 percent. Maybe as much as 30 percent if the lumber you are using isn't very good, like soft maple, some of the less dense elms, and black ash.

Maybe english, you are referring to the old longbow phrase- "a full drawn longbow is 9/10ths ( or 7/8ths) broken.". This means if you overdraw your bow by about two or three inches, more likely than not it will break.

DtB, I would suggest using all of the length you have, and adding another two or three inches to your drawlength. Another 6" of prod length isn't going to "slow you down" any- unless for some wierd reason you are hunting with it. A longer drawlength will shoot better.

Also, the reason you can have it "strung" with about a 1.5" brace height is that such a short heavy bow will take a significant amount of set, so there shouldn't be any tension anyway. DtB, I really suggest you make a bow first. It is easy, it will teach you about tillering, and if you can take some pics I'll walk you through it.


Rebel I can believe you are making them out of pine, if you are backing them with leather and linen as you say. I think a piece of hardwood like ash or elm would be better, but if they are working for you then its alright.
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Re: cross bow once more...
Reply #29 - May 19th, 2006 at 10:41pm
 
Ive made 5 bows, and the only reason im makeing such a short cross bow is i had wood left over from the last bow i made. Ive also made a cross bow before. This was just sort of a fun project so that i did not waste good wood Smiley
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