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English Grammar (Read 7771 times)
Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua
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Matthew 11:25-30

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Re: English Grammar
Reply #15 - May 6th, 2004 at 10:16pm
 
That is one urban legend that just won't die.....It is however, based upon very real concerns of the period.  Here's a link:

http://www.watzmann.net/scg/german-by-one-vote.html

When I first started to read your comment,  I thought you might be referencing the German Juggernaut war machine of WW2......it is 'rumored' that had just a few critical decisions been changed by one or both sides, that we ALL may be speaking German today!  She certainly was far in advance of the rest of the world in many areas of technology.....many western scientists refuting the 'impossiblity' of her rocket technology right up until they started landing on Britain!   Johnny, do a google on New Schwabenland......foo fighters and Viktor Schauberger......now if that ain't the makins of an urban legend....... Wink
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Matthias
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #16 - May 6th, 2004 at 10:49pm
 
I love spelling/grammar threads... (and subtle humo
u
r) 'rumo
u
r' has it that you're not a real discussion group until you've had at least one!
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srgs9
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #17 - May 7th, 2004 at 12:34am
 
As far as "American English" goes the few brits I know have used that term regularly... If anything I was making a comment on the degradation of the language here in the states.
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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2004 at 7:42am by srgs9 »  
 
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Johnny
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #18 - May 7th, 2004 at 11:02am
 
Tech
I stand corrected!
I've heard that "urban legend" for years from many people. That's incredible.
Thanks for setting me straight!
Johnny
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I also love sushi..!
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #19 - May 7th, 2004 at 11:09am
 
Can I rant?  Can I?

On one side, you've got the English professors, who want the language written and spoken the same way it's "always" been written and spoken, and if you can revive the use of some arcane word or phrase, good for you.  If they had their way all the time, language would stagnate and die, or at least become quite dull.

On the other side, you've got teenagers, country bumpkins, and the rest of the pre- or un-educated masses, individuals who want to use language that makes sense on a personal level, not to mention the overly educated specialists invested in the use of jargon.  If they had their ways, the language would deteriorate into nonsensical babel.

Since the goal is communication, and since this forum has such a large international contingent, it makes sense to use accepted rules of grammar, capitalization, spelling, etc., and to avoid abbreviations, excepting situations where slinging jargon is appropriate (e.g., The release node on my lovelock keeps hitting the retention, so the glandes hangs in the cradle and all I get with my underhand are hummers!)
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Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #20 - May 7th, 2004 at 11:33am
 
Somebody please tell me what the blazes he just said?!   (lol)  good point, Hobb. Smiley
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #21 - May 7th, 2004 at 4:57pm
 
It makes me think of the tower of Babel.......Just as today's engineers can launch an orbital telescope with a near fatal flaw based upon 'language' differences....perhaps that shows how easily languages split and evolve.  If one can accept the Babel account....then perhaps it went down something like this:   Over time, as work became more efficient, the respective trades divided into highly compartmentalized groups, each evolving according it's style and allowed slang to creep in slowly and unnoticed.  As each group stuck to it's own......over time, only the taskmasters themselves maintained the necessary retention of the former language and interpreted each for their respective group.   At this point, after much time elapsed.....all one need have done is remove the key personnel and voila'......complete discord.......(just a thought)  Certainly the bards of old, were they to be resurrected here in our day, would be hard pressed to converse with a fair portion of modern america!
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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2004 at 7:30pm by Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua »  

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Mithras
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #22 - May 7th, 2004 at 5:57pm
 
What do I know? But I believe that language is simply the accepted mode of communication amongst a certain population. If it makes sense to those who use it (LA gangs, Australian Aboriginines, New England lawyers, Philipino sailors on container ships ... then its an accepted language.

It doesn't belong in books at all. Language is real and fluid and ever changing, it will never be 'correct'.

But what do I know?
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They shrink for fear, abated of their rage,&&Nor longer dare in a blind fight engage;&&Contented now to gall them from below&&With darts and slings, and with the distant bow.&&&&Aeneid 9.503&&
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #23 - May 7th, 2004 at 6:21pm
 
I note that you dually mention the phrase,  "what do I know?"  That is a question worth asking twice in the least.  Just what do you know 'Mithras'?    Undecided
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #24 - May 8th, 2004 at 4:39am
 
A language is dynamic; change all the time! So in the past and it´s going on as we talk!

In swedish we got more and more english words that after a while become so common, so we "make" them swedish. It´s mostly computer-terms or other technical words... Does it make the swedish more rich or poor? It just the way it is.
Earlier, some hundreds years ago ( I suppose) we got a lot of german words because of all germanpeople that lived here back then.. Now we hardly think of that, but the two languages are very similar if one compare them.

But the gramma-rules stays longer. You just adjust new words to the old rules.

Sometimes it goes little bit to fast with new words though, and if you are not communicating so often with people from england or the USA you can not understand the new words. And often they aren´t to be found in a dictionary..

But keep on talking an keep the language alive!

Ulrica



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Re: English Grammar
Reply #25 - May 8th, 2004 at 7:25am
 
Language is simply a means of expressing one's feelings, and if you feel that "shucks" accurately tells someone else what you are feeling, then so be it.  Grammar rules are fairly silly; I much prefer Chinese, where basically, anything goes, so long as the words are there.  No noun declensions, no verb conjugations, no cases, no awkward and obscure pronouns... it is lovely.  The only difficult thing is pronunciation.
  The Tower of Babel, where everyone speaks the same language, is a real possibility.  Some linguists think that all languages descended from one original language; archaeologists know that all humans came from Africa, pretty much all in the same place.  The problem is:  did humans acquire language capabilities before or after they spread out and left the continent?  Obviously, if before, then they spoke one language, and if after, they spoke many.  If all languages come from one, then language groups are irrelevant, whether they are indo-european, ural-altaic, sino-tibetan, malayo-polynesian or iroquoian.  Hence, as all language has been fluid and changing as the evidence of language splits suggests then surely it should be fluid and changing now, and as such, grammar rules should be essenitally made redundant and language should be easily understandable (sounds like a bit of a "duh" statement, but really, most languages are startlingly complex.) 
  I have studied a lot (and I mean, A LOT) of languages, and I know how complex grammar rules can get, and to be honest, I wish they would disappear sometimes.  I hate the cases in Russian most of all; why do you need seven?  Why not just use a simpler idea, of word position?
So basically, we should all speak so that others can understand, rather than according to rules.
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #26 - May 8th, 2004 at 11:09pm
 
Sorry if I make any mistakes, but I'm from Dominican Republic.

I can talk the Ghetto English very well, and I can translate it. Here's the dictionary.

Ghetto's Dicctionary:

2: to.
' at end: e (4 exampl': I lik'-like it) or g (4 exampl': runnin'-running).
4: for.
' in da beguinin': a (4 exampl': 'bout-about).
Iight: ok.
Da: the.
Ma: my.
a at end: er (4 exampl': playa-player).
k: ch (4 example: skool-school).
k: ok.
Cuz: cause-because.
Gon': gonna-goin to.
Wan': wanna-want to.
Wut: what.
Wuz: what's.
Ya-U: you.
o': of.
N: and.
Dat: that.
Dis: this.
r: are.

If you have some dudes about a any post, you can ask me to transfer it.
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #27 - May 5th, 2006 at 9:13pm
 
Quote:
Most certainly......and I was just subconsciouly counter-ranting Johnny's initial rant by my inadvertent transposition of his name for Srgs9's.....all in good fun.....afterall,  I'm as ranty as the next person.... Embarrassed  In all honesty,  I hadn't considered the potential onus that some of my 'linguistic gymnastics' might put upon those of the slinging forum family whose grasp of english may be marginal, at best.  Johnny's post has made me more aware of my own intermittent lack of consideration for those whose problems with our language are far from mitigated by our choice of speech, coupled with the so called 'universal translator' web applications in use today.   And from now on,  I've decided there shall be no further counter-rantyness to be displayed henceforth.   Unless of course,  it has been submitted for approval to my dizzying intellect, which shineth forth like a bright beacon on a cold, dark night.  

P.S.  If I offend,  it is only because I work too hard for very little pay in my dark and dusty corner of the world and alas,  this fine haven is become my only outlet of pseudo-creative expression.   No good rant truly makes perfect sense, else it lose it's wild, boisterous edge......and yes Mithras,  I know where I fall in that category.  Undecided

What ???
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Re: English Grammar
Reply #28 - May 5th, 2006 at 10:03pm
 
Smiley I have an Oxford dictionary right beside me. Smiley
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Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua
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Matthew 11:25-30

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Re: English Grammar
Reply #29 - May 5th, 2006 at 11:03pm
 
Google me, BK.


It gets worse.


Much worse.


But then, of course, 


I am always willing to be forgiven.


Cheesy


TS
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