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Views on Primitivism? (Read 10569 times)
Æthelbera
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Views on Primitivism?
Oct 29th, 2005 at 12:24pm
 
Since this is a board for primitive weaponry, especially the sling and use of the weapon...I was thinking about the primitivism movement, what are people's views on it?

Is the abandonment of Industrial and Technological Capitalism a good thing or can it lead down dangerous paths?
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #1 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 1:47pm
 
western civilisation means that no-one need be short of food, shelter, clean water, or the chance of education, in theory at least.  primitive skills are an interesting hobby, or as a back-up in an emergency. but who would swap an easy life for a hard one if they didn't have to?
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MammotHunter
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #2 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 2:55pm
 
You know, if I thought for a second that I had the skills neccesary to survive or thrive in a primitive world, and someone were to offer me the opportunity to leave this world and live in a more primitive environ, I would in a second. Primitivism is different things for different people. For some it's an escape. For some, it's a way to touch the world of prehistoric man across time from our own. For some, it's just a neat hobby. for me, its a way of life that we will perhaps never fully regain, a state now lost to us that some of us still remember, deep and away, and still dream of retaining. Some of us, mayhaps, more than others Wink For me, it's a way of keeping the primitive fire burning inside myself. It's a way for me to be myself, not what modern society wants me to be, or thinks I should. It's a way of keeping the old ways alive. It's a way of Right Relationship, and a way of True Being.
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Æthelbera
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #3 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 3:51pm
 
I agree with both of you! Honestly, I would choose the primitive life before the "civilized", based purely on my need to nurture the basic bottom lines of my humanity. For me, in order to feel like a person, I need to learn what it is that makes me such.
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #4 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 5:10pm
 
the thing is, even contemplating a return to primitivism is a luxury. and no-one thrived or thrives in a primitive state. at best you survive. you won't have a home, just a shelter. you won't be slinging for relaxation, but to avoid starvation. there would be dozens of animals that could kill you, and hundreds of diseases. too much rain, not enough rain. no soap, no pain relief, no anitseptics, no travel, and a life of superstition, omens, signs and ignorance.
you can contemplate primitivism as desirable but it's a game. cities and agriculture make the difference between a risky life of constant toil and one of comfort and safety.
mammothunter, i would speculate that if someone who actually had to hunt mammoths were transported to the here and now he would think he was in utopia.
he wouldn't have imagined unlimited quantities of food, inert and prepared, on shelves as far as the eye can see. mcdonalds may be the symbol of capitalistic evil, but a big mac doesn't weigh five tons and try to kill you, which is a step in the right direction.
the skills of primiitve man are interesting as a hobby, and arguably should be at least studied, in case the individual finds himself trying to survive after a disaster. but to wish to return to a hand-to-mouth existence when comfortable cities still shelter us is illogical.
hot water, tv and science  or tapeworms, ghosts, and scratching a living.
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #5 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 6:07pm
 
It depends on what you mean by primitive.  My definition is that it is using all available materials that are in nature to survive. In that case, going truly primitive is impossible, seeing how civilized man has left his mark on this earth.
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #6 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 6:46pm
 
im for civilization, as long as they get rid of thos crazy PETA people.
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #7 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 7:19pm
 
civilisation is a friendly mask on the iron face of our indifferent planet. if mankind falls from civilisation, it won't take long for the jungle to reclaim our works. 
what's wrong with PETA? why be cruel when we can be kind?
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Æthelbera
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #8 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 8:04pm
 
I dont think primitive life is ignorance ridden in the least!
Cities arent comfortable! Theyre cesspools of compact disease.

" he wouldn't have imagined unlimited quantities of food, inert and prepared, on shelves as far as the eye can see. mcdonalds may be the symbol of capitalistic evil, but a big mac doesn't weigh five tons and try to kill you, which is a step in the right direction. " Unfortunately, even for many "civilized" city dwellers, unlimited quanities of food still isnt accessible.....

Personally for me, I dont want a house to live in, I dont want money, I dont want to buy medicated, processed, packaged meat with tonnes of preservatives and chemicals in it...I dont want carpeted floor and insulated walls. I want to journey, be a wayfarer only moving from one post to the next because my hunger moves me to where the food is. I want to know what it really feels like to be a human and ultimately an animal on earth. I want to exist on my very base instincts of survival and humanity.

In this supposedly "comfy" "cozy" "civilized" society, I feel empty. I dont feel comfy, I dont have lots of money, I dont feel like Im living in the confines of protection. I feel like Im stupid, I know almost NOTHING of nature and our relationship to it because I cant get close.

And I'd kill myself before I lived in a city.
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #9 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 8:38pm
 
I would love to live like a primative man. But i have a question for everyone. Where would you do it where you couldn't get in to trouble for hunting out of season or tespassing on someone elses land? There are very few places left in the usa. I know you might be able to in alsaska or canada, but what about a normal climate where surivival would be a little easlier. I still love watching jermiay jonson wish i had been born two centeries ago.
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #10 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 8:40pm
 
you converse by computer, ergo you live in a house. i guess you don't live on food that you catch or gather.
i agree that "primitive" doesn't equal "ignorant" because it takes intelligence to survive in the wild. and i also agree that as civilised men we can feel lost and empty. we are animals, and we are domesticated, fat and lazy compared with our ancestors. however, we are inestimably better off, because we don't HAVE to be so, we have a choice. i don't live in a city either, but "civilisation" equals "civil" equals "polis" equals "polite" equals "police" equals a reasonably law-abiding, safe environment. look at the greeks in their city-states, and how much we owe their  legacy of democracy, medicine, mathematics and physics! this is the best time in history to be alive. i can buy a motor-car for a week's wages and go where i want, i can download any information at the click of a button, i don't have to believe what i'm told, or submit to someone just because they have more money and more men than i have. i can work for who i want, say what i want, get cured if i fall sick, and eat until i'm full. there are no wolves or mammoths to kill me, and i don't go in fear of gods or demons. i can light a fire with a 50 cent lighter, i cut with a steel knife, i can shoot with a fibreglass bow that will never break. i can extend the hand of friendship to whomever i choose, even you at the other side of the world. i can illuminate the darkness of superstitious fear, i can ridicule my leaders without being punished, i can fly round the planet in 2 days. i don't get rickets or scurvy thanks to plentiful fresh food.  my children are healthy and well-nourished, my wife has lost no infants and hasn't perished in child-birth.    
i didn't die when i had appendicitis, and i have glasses to correct my vision, a defect that would kill me if i had to hunt for food.
no my friend, we are domseticated and cosseted in a machine which is dedicated to keeping us alive in a hostile universe. most of the bushmen of the kalahari live in houses now, because there is no real choice.
the american indians once fought hard to preserve their lifestyle; now that they are free citizens, how many  choose to endure the rigours of stone-age existence?
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Smudge
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #11 - Oct 29th, 2005 at 10:42pm
 
Quote:
I dont think primitive life is ignorance ridden in the least!
Cities arent comfortable! Theyre cesspools of compact disease.

" he wouldn't have imagined unlimited quantities of food, inert and prepared, on shelves as far as the eye can see. mcdonalds may be the symbol of capitalistic evil, but a big mac doesn't weigh five tons and try to kill you, which is a step in the right direction. " Unfortunately, even for many "civilized" city dwellers, unlimited quanities of food still isnt accessible.....

Personally for me, I dont want a house to live in, I dont want money, I dont want to buy medicated, processed, packaged meat with tonnes of preservatives and chemicals in it...I dont want carpeted floor and insulated walls. I want to journey, be a wayfarer only moving from one post to the next because my hunger moves me to where the food is. I want to know what it really feels like to be a human and ultimately an animal on earth. I want to exist on my very base instincts of survival and humanity.

In this supposedly "comfy" "cozy" "civilized" society, I feel empty. I dont feel comfy, I dont have lots of money, I dont feel like Im living in the confines of protection. I feel like Im stupid, I know almost NOTHING of nature and our relationship to it because I cant get close.

And I'd kill myself before I lived in a city.


  Fine then. It is your choice to live as primitively as you want. Go and pursue the  primitive and brutal life you crave.  You will live 20 more years at the most, and will be shunned and forgotten by society.  
   You will never be satisfied by primitive living because you know of the comforts of the modern world, and when you are cold, hungry, and wet, modern food and shelter will look appealing. 
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #12 - Oct 30th, 2005 at 6:14am
 
if you "don't want money" please send it to me; you won't need it because you'll be able to do what the tribes in the cameroons did - sell one of your daughters for marriage in exchange for an axe-head, salt, and a goat.
man might return to primitivism following a cataclysmic disaster - until then, only a masochist would swap a comfortable life of leisure for one of hardship.. 
if you feel empty i suggest that you look at religion or philosophy, the traditional means by which life is given some kind of meaning.
primitive life isn't "dances with wolves" -  it's more like "f***ing with death"

PS: here's a link to someone who can help you survive with equanimity in a civilised environment. if you want you can make a firedrill, AND have a bath later.
http://www.geocities.com/khs10uk/enchiridion.htm

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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #13 - Oct 30th, 2005 at 9:34am
 
I am in terms of aesthetic artistic temperment and lifestyle a minimalist. That is not the same as someone who wants a purposely primitive lifestyle, but it as some similarities. I still need my PC, though Tongue
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Æthelbera
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Re: Views on Primitivism?
Reply #14 - Oct 30th, 2005 at 3:20pm
 
Uhhh, NOT in the US...ANYWHERE.

Canada has LOTS of open space!! We have few people living in a massively wide space, and the climate isnt really that harsh in most parts...No one would go to Ellesmere Islands to try and live primitively. They would go to somewhere more like.....Newfoundland. Its perfect, you even have free access to large caves in the hills and bountiful hunting.
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...&&Each all must his end abide. august 13th, rip Sad&&Varje man är sin egen konung.
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