I am a christian, so i believe that there are angels and demons. I believe that magick (stuff that pagans and wicca do) is really happening, but that it is demons that a fooling us into thinking that we have power - even though it is really them with the power.
I agree with funslinger that God and sometimes angels will perform miricles, which could be classified as magick by some.

".... in the case of suggestion it (migic) might well work (ie someone puts a curse on another person - if the cursed person believes in it, he will die. this is well documented in africa)"
Good point - although this isn't true magic, it is simply one type of mental illusion.

I think that, by definition, magick is a power that a person weilds that allows him to do supernatural things. Therefore humans are incapible of performing magick - it is really the demons (and sometimes the angels) that do it 

Anyway, interesting topic- wonder what other people think?

i have a little interest in  Meditation and zen and what not. I got a book on it once and the book said that every culture has a form of meditation, and there is also a fighters meditation and a monks meditation. I wanted to hear of this "fighters" meditation but the book being on buddest (how is it spelled that does not look right?) zen and meditation does not go into fighters meditation at all.
according to this book you sit in the lotus position empty your mind do some counting to ten then you rock back and forth...ect ect..(i will type out all the steps in detail if you would like) any way the main idea is to have no thoughts (invading thoughts have a name i just cant remember) and to have enlightenment.

So i looked in another book on it hopeing to find one on other cultures meditation, but all i could find was one talking about something called saiminjutsu and it made some references to ninja self hypnosis. This is more what i like. the jest of it is to sit and get as comfy as you can then relax as much as you can until you feel as if you cant move.

then visualize walking up a path the more real you make it the better you get to your place of power some place where you feel at home and in your element. You see yourself in a mirror and you look like what you want yourself to look, and your strong too you visualize your self doing pushups and climbing a rope.

Next you work on whatever your problem is. if its speaking in front of a crowd you pretend you are speaking to a crowd and enjoying it. if you want to be a better fighter you see yourself as a better fighter.


i have tried this but my back wont let me relax enough sitting up so i lay down and it seems to work to tell you the truth. I was just experimenting with it so i tried thinking my self into throwing the tomahawk better and i did improve believe it or not. All i think the trick was to keep me calm i usually get worked up right before i throw and then i miss, doing that let me stay calm.

just give it a shot before you tell me im full of badly spelled  BS

I believe emptying my mind is counter-productive (not trying to be argumentive ) .
Though visulizing what your gonna do is just focusing on your goal.

When I'm slinging blind, if I imagine that I miss it, I do. And the rock also goes where I imagined it did.

So you really can control your sub-concious.

Though it sure can be as hard as heck.

Thats exactly how I think of it Funslinger!
I do not understand the "emptying" of the mind part that you hear about, nor do I think there is a set way to meditate with certain instructions on how to do it, which seems to be the way of the modern new age, wicca and paganism.

now i like a nice hard serface to lay on. it hurts my back less then something padded my personal favorte is just laying on the grass under some shade on a hot summer day. Next time i go out into the deep woods i will have to try to meditate no cars or people and if i cant meditate i'll take a nap.

I completely agree!

The Earth Mother provides us with beautiful trees!