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Supersonic sling projectile? (Read 14126 times)

KnollSlinger

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Supersonic sling projectile?
Dec 9^th, 2004 at 7:48am

Supersonic sling projectile!
Is it possible? What kind of forces would be required?

Does a whip tip break the sound barrier? Why not put a small pouch with a tiny tungsten projectile?

What would be the force on ones arm when the sling projectile reached MACH 1 at sea level?

At 10,000 feet?

What would be the best design? Could even a treb do this?

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MammotHunter

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Re: Supersonic sling projectile?
Reply #1 - Dec 9^th, 2004 at 9:07am

I don't know the specifics of it, but you would have to have one hell of an arm on you to do it. I've gotten stones to fly out of my slings with a thrumming sound, which I understand, is basically the same principal of mass molecular displacement of the air surrounding the rock and I have had the tip of my sling crack like a whip, but the rocks were far below being supersonic by any means. And I don;t know of any trebuchet powerful enough to do that. It seems like the power to do that would rip the trebuchet apart at the seams before getting a projectile off.

Foolish is he who frets at night,&&And lies awake to worry'&&A weary man when morning comes,&&He finds all as bad as before&&-Excerpted from "The Havemal"

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Gun

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Re: Supersonic sling projectile?
Reply #2 - Dec 9^th, 2004 at 9:27am

I think we first need to know how much we need to improve. No one really knows how fast a sling projectile is going (yes i know about all the figures and test), but they are not exact. What is the gueniss book of world recorders was coming to your house to see you throw and they ask you how fast are you throwing. You say well somewhere between 50 feet per secound to 300 feet per secound. They are going to laught at the person because they want exact numbers. Could someone do it, proably. But first we need to know exacty where you stand on speed so we know how much to improve and what works in the test with different sling designs.

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Tint

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Re: Supersonic sling projectile?
Reply #3 - Dec 9^th, 2004 at 9:45pm

It would be really hard for a projectile from a sling to go faster than the speed of sound. I remember from an earlier thread that for a rock to be thrown 500 yards (about 450 m), it'd would be traveling at about 200 km/h. The speed of sound is roughly 1100 km/h. A dart from a crossbow can go as fast as 300 ft/sec or 330 km/h. As you can see, we are no where close to the sound barrier.

The tip of a whip can go faster than MACH 1 because the whip is tappered. It is much heavier at the handle and really light and the tip, so when you swing it you create a wave that accelerate through the length of the whip. If a tungsten projectile is added to the tip, however, that little weight would change the balance of the whip and hinder the acceleration.

If Supersonic sling projenctile is to become a reality, I'd expect the ammo to be really small. May be 5mm in diameter. The design of the sling may look like a whip but the release must be different from a normal sling. having a release cord that double the length of the device at release would slow down the pouche. Perharps a release that is similar to Yurek's dart throwing design may work. ???

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KnollSlinger Senior Member Offline The Davidson Road KnollSlinger Posts: 355 Chandler, Arizona, USA Gender:	Re: Supersonic sling projectile? Reply #4 - Dec 10^th, 2004 at 1:15am Tint, Your analysis is inspiring. Now to design one? Who can do it? Of course, if we are talking about a dust particle, perhaps a whip has already sent one past MACH 1.. but how to scale this up? Can a machine be made to "crack" a giant "whip" ?
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DuckofDeath Junior Member Offline Posts: 84	Re: Supersonic sling projectile? Reply #5 - Dec 10^th, 2004 at 3:33am Sling a tungsten ball earthward from a balloon gondola 100,000 feet up and I bet it'll hit mach one.
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Mike_R Funditor Offline Posts: 617	Re: Supersonic sling projectile? Reply #6 - Dec 10^th, 2004 at 3:57am I'm not a physics expert but things can only fall so fast. Things speed up as they fall until a point where they reach terminal velocity.
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britishslinger Senior Member Offline slings the handheld arlilery Posts: 391	Re: Supersonic sling projectile? Reply #7 - Dec 10^th, 2004 at 4:58am some man jumped bl from a o balloon from really k high because the air e was thinner he went past the speed of sound
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Tint

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Re: Supersonic sling projectile?
Reply #8 - Dec 10^th, 2004 at 5:40am

I think 5 mm would be leathal if it is traveling at the speed of sound, some lead bullets are that size, aren't there? May be 9mm is possible too! I am only guessing here.

If you are thinking about using a machine then I am sure it can crack a big heavy whip and scale everything up. But keep in mind such a design would be hard to aim. The end of a whip is not only moving fast, it is also changing angles very quickly, that would leave very little margin for timing error of the release.

When it comes to making one, my best guess is to ask Techstuf for advice. Perharps we have some whip makers on the forum too?

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KnollSlinger Senior Member Offline The Davidson Road KnollSlinger Posts: 355 Chandler, Arizona, USA Gender:	Re: Supersonic sling projectile? Reply #9 - Dec 11^th, 2004 at 12:43am THis would be a close range device.. since hard to aim and the projectile very small, it would require the skill of a whip master to use. It still, however, needs an inventor.
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Yurek

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Re: Supersonic sling projectile?
Reply #10 - Dec 11^th, 2004 at 5:04pm

Once, on some polish forum, a one guy wrote, that his living in a country grandfather, had related when he was a teenager, used to shot stones with a whip. Alas, the guy have never got to know detailes. The grandfather said, that stones were making marks on the wall, like a rifle bullet.

I also read an article, which mentioned about Carpathan stripligns, who used whips to shot stones. No details, only info about kind of a loop made on the whip ending.

I suppose it was rather something like a staff sling in the both mentioned cases, not like a bull-whip. But I might be wrong.

I remember, TechStuff wrote something about his tests with launching from the whip.

Jurek

In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.

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KnollSlinger Senior Member Offline The Davidson Road KnollSlinger Posts: 355 Chandler, Arizona, USA Gender:	Re: Supersonic sling projectile? Reply #11 - Dec 12^th, 2004 at 10:42am Jurek, Thanks for this. Now, we have work to document this phase of slinging and bring it up to latest technology.
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big_sling_gland

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Re: Supersonic sling projectile?
Reply #12 - Jan 5^th, 2008 at 10:57pm

Mike_R wrote on Dec 10^th, 2004 at 3:57am:

I'm not a physics expert but things can only fall so fast. Things speed up as they fall until a point where they reach terminal velocity.

yes terminal volocity is the fastest it canfall when gravity and air resistance meets an equilibrium but if you put force on it to mke it go down I bet it would go faster.

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big_sling_gland Ex Member	Re: Supersonic sling projectile? Reply #13 - Jan 5^th, 2008 at 11:01pm britishslinger wrote on Dec 10^th, 2004 at 4:58am: some man jumped bl from a o balloon from really k high because the air e was thinner he went past the speed of sound he had to wear a preasure suit or his blood would boil literally.
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DesertPilot

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Re: Supersonic sling projectile?
Reply #14 - Jan 6^th, 2008 at 12:59am

Quote:

britishslinger wrote on Dec 10^th, 2004 at 4:58am:

some man jumped bl from a o balloon from really k high because the air e was thinner he went past the speed of sound

he had to wear a pressure suit or his blood would boil literally.

It was Joseph Kittinger, an officer of the USAF. On August 16, 1960, he jumped from the gondola of a research balloon 102,800' (almost 19-1/2 miles!) as part of Project Excelsior. Check out the photo at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excelsior

It must be the ultimate, "It's too late to change your mind!" shot

More than four minutes in freefall. And... oh wow... there are videos...

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