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Tungsten ammo (Read 6119 times)
Tint
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Tungsten ammo
Nov 6th, 2004 at 1:48am
 
Has anyone ever tried or considered using tungsten as a material for ammo?  It is even heavier than lead.  I am looking for ways to get some for testing.
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KnollSlinger
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #1 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 6:27am
 
Yes, I have a book with all the metals and how dense they are.  I would like to try platinum! Or radium so it glows in the dark!
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #2 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 8:07am
 
Tritium would also glow in the dark, and wouldn't endanger you so much.  You might have tritium in your watch.
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #3 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 9:10am
 
tracer would be fun after dark but
you could easly make a lead bullet with a tunsten penitrater take a tunsten tig rod drive it in the hole of a lead egg sinker ,sharpen the ends there you go
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KnollSlinger
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #4 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 12:15pm
 
I was reading about tungsten carbide ball bearings.. perhaps a few could be purchased from the "seconds" bin?
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #5 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 1:39pm
 
I have experimented with Tungsten for years.  Although it is certainly not cost effective for constant use in our sport, it will provide efficiency increases on the order of 10-15% over lead.  Having tried 3/4" spheres and 1/4"x 3" 3oz. darts.....I found that the darts provided a marked increase in distance.....such that I am sure others here in our forum besides myself could surpass the current world distance record.   I have not actively used Tungsten for some time and settled on cold roll steel rod cut in shorts as dart 'throwaways'.   

(There are various posts elsewhere in the forum with more information regarding my results with Tungsten).

8)
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Matthias
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #6 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 2:12pm
 
Apologies all around....

Tungsten carbide isn't actually that much heavier than lead,  what with the carbons diluting things. Much harder of course.

Radium doesn't glow. It emits beta particles as it decays, which excite the zinc sulphide paint in the watch dial.

Tritium (modern watches) is actually a gas and is thus no good for slinging! It is usually contained in tiny vials that are themselves coated with phosphors.

And the worst part is...

For someone with a 60m/s throw, firing a 100g 2:1 ellipsoidal glans at 45 degrees:
  • vacuum              369 m
  • concrete             285 m
  • lead                    325 m
  • tungsten             337 m
  • platinum             338 m
  • depleted uranium 337 m 


The range boost just isn't that great once you start hitting the higher densities... Knollslinger's Pt glans buys distance at a cost of $195US per meter Grin

It gets even worse if you sling heavier ammo.

Sad

Matthias
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #7 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 3:24pm
 
Tritium is a gas?  Wow.  I guess not great for slinging then.  Maybe you could put some in a little glass container, shaped like a glans.  But then again, no.
  I'm wondering... where can you get tungsten and the like?
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #8 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 5:42pm
 
None necessary, Matt.    Cost effectiveness issues aside....Tungsten yields it's benefit squarely where it is best found...... for those interested in extreme range exercises.   It is the size to weight ratio that provides the benefit.  A 3oz. projectile with such a low drag profile is very hard to beat......except by the most dedicated researcher.   Wink
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KnollSlinger
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #9 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 5:47pm
 
Tungsten seems to be the ideal material.. but not tungsten carbine eh?

So where DO you get tungsten?
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #10 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 6:10pm
 
http://www.rembar.com/Tungsten.htm#HM

How about some milspec category 4?
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Matthias
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #11 - Nov 7th, 2004 at 1:08am
 
Quote:
None necessary, Matt.    Cost effectiveness issues aside....Tungsten yields it's benefit squarely where it is best found...... for those interested in extreme range exercises.   It is the size to weight ratio that provides the benefit.  A 3oz. projectile with such a low drag profile is very hard to beat......except by the most dedicated researcher.   Wink


Thias, actually, would you believe? Wink

Tungsten has a nice advantage for making darts in that you can machine it. By the time you get to the point of making darts you are starting to squeeze the last 2% of your available range! Short of (tube?)wings and rockets that is...

Come to think of it... how come we haven't seen any pictures of your blinky darts? I've been fussing around with led's as a way of clocking release velocities, but am curious as always about new ideas Smiley

Matthias
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #12 - Nov 7th, 2004 at 1:50am
 
My apologies, Matthias.....you gave me no leave to call you familiar.  Feel free to call me 'Tech' or whatever.....I'll answer to any monicker thrown my way....and have the obnoxious tendency to abbreviate anything and everything that suffices to shorten my various digital forays.  You are quite correct about the advantages in being able to machine Tungsten. (negligible they may be, in such an untoward hobby as ours)  8)  I believe you are the first to inquire about the possibility of seeing pictures of the Tungsten darts! 

    Although I am quite comfortable freely sharing alot of information regarding my experiences with the sling....there is also much I have chosen to save for the DVD and website.  It has been somewhat slow going as I have other, much more important things going at the moment. 

I don't currently have the time to get into the entire physical dynamics scenario with you regarding my observations of a 10-15% distance increase with tungsten over lead of the same weight....(lead darts weren't necessary to fabricate for the purposes of testing against Tungsten for various reasons).  Your suppositions are certainly on the right track and Tungsten's ability to maintain a precision surface geometry while presenting a smaller drag profile plays a role as well.


Peace,

TS out
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Tint
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #13 - Nov 7th, 2004 at 4:24am
 
I checked with a company that makes tungsten balls.

The price is outrages!  $895 for two 1" tungsten balls!

I think tungsten powder is much cheaper.

I gusess making darts with the powder is a good alternative....... Roll Eyes

Tech, looking forward to you DVD and website.
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Re: Tungsten ammo
Reply #14 - Nov 7th, 2004 at 7:55am
 
To reduce drag, sling lead "footballs" point first, so the same mass presents much less frontal area for drag.  Somebody did the math here.   I cant remember who/where, but I remember it was possible to cut air drag to maybe 1/3 of that of a sphere.    mgreenfield
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