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From net to knit... (Read 66009 times)
peacefuljeffrey
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #75 - Aug 10th, 2010 at 11:23pm
 
Well, it explains what I didn't know (although I did suspect) about the skipped line numbers.

I still am not sure about the increases and decreases yet, but I will say that after I ranted my frustration, I read over the instructions again a little, and some stuff became more clear to me.  (Not everything yet, though.)

I am in the middle of knitting a scarf for my dad for his 70th birthday coming up in September, so I am not starting to try the sling yet.  When I'm finished, I'll try the sling.  (Oh, sure, I may putter around with it prior to that, if I can find that set of double-pointed needles I remember seeing among my materials a while back.)

Is Matthias no longer an active member?  I sure wish he would post a video of the making of that sling.  Undecided
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Masiakasaurus
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #76 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 12:09am
 
Cry No, he hasn't been on in a while. I PMed him with questions last year and he never responded, but I eventually figured it out.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
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peacefuljeffrey
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #77 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 5:52am
 
Quote:
When you get to the point of practicing increasing and decreasing in your swatch (everyone is practicing first right? ) you'll notice that increases "slant" the knitting one way. I wanted the pocket to be symmetric, with the column on both sides slanting out, then in, so on one side I used a k2tog variant where you slip one stitch over onto the other needle, then knit the other loop before passing the slipped stich back. The pattern will still work if you don't do this, however...



I suspect that this is pretty important to the symmetrical outcome of the pouch ...
But I find it to be about as clear as mud.

Can anyone state this more plainly?
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Masiakasaurus
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #78 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 10:04am
 
To do this:
  • slip the first stitch
  • knit the second stitch
  • pull the loop you just made by knitting through the first stitch

It's the same technique as binding off for one stitch, but in the middle of the work. It isn't a necessity, because I didn't do it and my slings work fine.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~
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peacefuljeffrey
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #79 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:12pm
 
What is it a technique for? Increasing? Decreasing?

If one doesn't use IT, what does one substitute?
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Masiakasaurus
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #80 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:30pm
 
peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:12pm:
What is it a technique for? Increasing? Decreasing?

If one doesn't use IT, what does one substitute?

It's a way of decreasing. The easy technique for decreasing is to stick your right needle through the first two loops on your left needle and knit one stitch through them both. When using seine twine I think Matthias's method is actually easier to do, though.

Edited:
Here is a video of the right side decrease (Matthias's method) and a video of the left side decrease (knit 2 together).

Both methods of decrease can be used on both sides for a symetrical pouch, but it looks more neat with each method on one side.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~
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peacefuljeffrey
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #81 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 11:32pm
 
Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 10th, 2010 at 11:14pm:
[quote author=peacefuljeffrey link=1089409452/60#73 date=1281429407]The provisional cast on makes a row of unfinished stitches at the beginning of a work instead of an edge. To make a finger loop:
  • Knit 3-stitches in the round until you have a tube long enough to wrap around your finger.
  • Pull the "waste yarn" out of your knitting to reveal the unfinished stitches from your first row of knitting.
  • Carefully pull your knitting off of the needles without letting it unravel.
  • Fold the knit tube in half and put it back on the needle alternating 1 loop from the last row you knit and 1 unfinished loop on the first row.
  • Knit the first two stitches together, knit the third and fourth stitches together, etc. for one row.
  • Knit 3-stitches in the round to make the retention cord.
  • Do not increase, do not decrease, and do not purl.

You don't need to use the provisional cast on, but it makes the fusing together part a lot easier.


Does this help?


Now that I look closely at it, not really.   Embarrassed
I have no idea what it means to "knit three stitches in the round."

I feel like a *&!^! dullard child.  Angry Embarrassed
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Masiakasaurus
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #82 - Aug 16th, 2010 at 4:14pm
 
When you cast on only cast on 3 stitches. Do not turn your work over; when you would normally turn the work over and start purling you should instead slide the knitting to the other end of the needle and keep knitting. This only works on double point needles or circular needles. Knitting a small diameter tube like this is called I-Cord knitting. Before you try this try making a hat to wrap your head around the differences between flat knitting and circular knitting.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~
WWW elsabio04  
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peacefuljeffrey
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #83 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 10:46pm
 
Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 16th, 2010 at 4:14pm:
When you cast on only cast on 3 stitches. Do not turn your work over; when you would normally turn the work over and start purling you should instead slide the knitting to the other end of the needle and keep knitting. This only works on double point needles or circular needles. Knitting a small diameter tube like this is called I-Cord knitting. Before you try this try making a hat to wrap your head around the differences between flat knitting and circular knitting.


Thank you!  That is a big help! Smiley

When I was reading earlier about sliding back to the other end of a double-pointed needle, I didn't make the connection that it would result in a tube.  I'm familiar with the idea of that result by using a knitting spool, though.  I just didn't realize that going back and forth across one needle would do the same thing.  But I remember thinking that based on Matthias' pictures, the result looked like what I've done with a knitting spool. ...

Now I have to find the set of double-pointed needles that I know I have somewhere.  I have no idea where, though.  Could be in a dozen places at my house. ...  Undecided
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peacefuljeffrey
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #84 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 11:28pm
 
Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:30pm:
peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:12pm:
What is it a technique for? Increasing? Decreasing?

If one doesn't use IT, what does one substitute?

It's a way of decreasing. The easy technique for decreasing is to stick your right needle through the first two loops on your left needle and knit one stitch through them both. When using seine twine I think Matthias's method is actually easier to do, though.

Edited:
Here is a video of the right side decrease (Matthias's method) and a video of the left side decrease (knit 2 together).

Both methods of decrease can be used on both sides for a symetrical pouch, but it looks more neat with each method on one side.


I believe that I now understand what is going on, as far as making the shape of the pouch symmetrical by doing, for example, a decrease at the start of and at the end of a row (or an increase at each end, depending).

Are you also saying that you use one kind of decrease at the start, and a different kind at the end?  If that's what you mean, does that not make it look odd?
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Masiakasaurus
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #85 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 11:44pm
 
That is exactly what I'm saying, but by doing one method at the start and one method at the end I make the sling more bilaterally symetrical. When increasing and decreasing the two (or more) sitches in the increase/decrease lean in one direction depending on the technique you use. By using one technique at the beginning of the row and one at the end I make the decreased stitches on both sides lean toward the center of the row and the increased stitches lean away from the center of the row. It is not necessary, though.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~
WWW elsabio04  
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Matthias
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #86 - Aug 19th, 2010 at 2:18pm
 
I checked in to look up these instructions for my first replacement sling in quite some time and find it on the front page! First sling is quite the honour evoli. Nylon takes dye quite well - anything from grocery-store RIT to onion peels should work.

Thanks to Masiakasaurus for carrying the thread and posting some great clarifications! I don't have anything really to add, but I did take photos of the new replacement while I was working on it. I only have white bonded twine with me, which I don't like for this sling quite so much as the tar, but it does photograph much better. Pictures worth 1000 etc?

The sling is #18 bonded 3-strand nylon twine, 36" (inseam/outstretched arm-chin) from pouch to release. It is made exactly to pattern with two extra knit rows in the straight section of pouch.

...
...

A bunch of suggestions have ben posted for casting on, and they all will work. The truth is that with only three stitches it's pretty irrelevant - completely so if like me you unravel a row or two before joining for the fingerloop. The cast-on that I used was simply looped.

...

I-cord hollow tube on the needle. As deduced it's the same result as spool knitting, and you could substitute a spool and swap to needles for the pouch if you wanted, so long as it was sized to give you the tightness of cord you want.

...

The fingerloop. On the needles the I-cord is "unrolled" toward the back side. I placed the two "insides" face-to-face and knitted the stitches in pairs.

...

The initial taper. The first couple of rows in the pouch are maybe the only thing with this design where I see room for improvement. It's a high wear area, and could use a little more reinforcing, not that my previous slings show any sign of failure. I think maybe the I cord could be flared for the first art of the pouch so that the transition is doubled. This sling was a replacement - next one can be for experimenting.

...

The increases: the whole "symmetric" discussion comes down to making the stitches look the same on both sides. These increases are twisted yarn-overs, and the direction of increase is decided by which direction the stitches are turned. Masiaka correctly identified that with this gauge and twine I pretty much take the increase and decrease stitches off the needle and manipulate them individually, so it's pretty easy to just flip the stitch the direction you want before continuing. It really doesn't matter much whether they slant in or out, but it does look good with mirror-image stitches.

...

Decreases. Which way they slant is decided by which stitch is on top. Knit the bottom one first, then work the top one over. The top stitch can be slid over, transferred to a third needle, or even just left hanging with seine twine while it's waiting. There's only a handfull - take your time.

...

The chain edge. This forms a strong, symmetric edge that curls the right direction. It's a result of slipping the first stitch (needle goes in as if you were going to purl it) and knitting the last stitch of every row.

...

Release cord diamond knot and tassle. To tie the knot I stretched the last three stitches out 4" or so, giving me three large loops and the tail end of the cord. The tail went through the neighbouring stitch then I added an 8" loose strand through the remaining two to that each knit stitch in the last row had one big loop and one single strand coming from it. Each bundle of three strands was treated as a single cord to tie the knot, being carefull to keep them tidy. The tassle is just the 9 stands (after cutting the loops) unravelled.

...

Two views of the pouch shaping.

...
...

Matthias
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« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2010 at 4:07pm by Matthias »  
 
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peacefuljeffrey
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #87 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:26am
 
Matthias! Welcome back!  Cheesy
We meet for the first time!

I was sad, here, thinking that by the time I finally got around to discovering your sling design -- which to me is genius, by the way -- and developed a strong desire to knit one, we had already seen the last of you on this forum. You can imagine my great relief that you are still with us!

I'm at a point where I'm practicing the I-cord beginnings of this sling. My
mind has not yet digested the concepts involved in the increasing and directionality of the stitches
in the pouch. Some of your expressions still go over my head, unfortunately; although maybe they'll be more clear to me when I begin to attempt to follow along with the steps.

Brace yourself for more questions!  Wink
But in the meantime, thank you so much for this most worthy and excellent contribution to both slinging and knitting!  Smiley
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peacefuljeffrey
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #88 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:32am
 
"I think maybe the I cord could be flared for the first art of the pouch so that the transition is doubled."

Would you mind elucidating this point? Thanks!
Not sure what you mean about "flaring" and "doubling."
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Re:  From net to knit...
Reply #89 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 4:06pm
 
peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:32am:
"Not sure what you mean about "flaring" and "doubling."


Don't worry about it... I have an idea that you could make the sling a little bit stronger by slowly increasing (flaring) the I-cord from 3 to say 5-10 stitches still working as a tube. Then, to start the pouch, you'd flatten the tube, so that the resulting triangle of fabric is double thick, then pick up the stitches either in pairs or alternately...

The other option would be just to knit the whole pouch as a tube... or various other "advanced" techniques.

If I do find something I like better I'll post instructions, but it will be trickier, and you really can't go wrong with the existing pattern!


Making samples is one of the best ways to learn. You don't need to worry about the time already put into the project, and it's easier to pick up tricks. Knitting can always be undone very simply as well, so don't be afraid to go back and correct of change things you don't like!
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