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Accuracy Comparison & Competition? (Read 12641 times)
Chris
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #45 - Feb 27th, 2004 at 2:15am
 
I tend to believe the sling was a very deadly and accurate weapon in the right hands.  Although stories can be embellished, the frequency and independence of the texts does paint a convincing picture for me.  Plus, certain sources, like Roman slinger qualifications are empirical, and are less likely to be skewed.  And, that qualification was something along the lines of a watermelon 9 out of 10 times at 200 feet.   

Now, I think that the effective, accurate range for a sling is around 150 feet.  I think after that point, your only aiming at an object in it's entirety (like a whole soldier). 

We also have to consider that bows at distances of over 150 weren't particularly accurate either (guns weren't either until maybe 150 years ago; "don't shoot until you see the whites in their eyes").  Plus, Ranged troops were never meant to engage infantry at such ranges either.  Long bows with enormous draw were meant to do clout shooting.  So both slingers and archers were all doing distanced shots (~30-45 degrees).  The whole concept of accuracy gets lots at this stage.  Ranged troops were meant to barrage infantry or cavalry, not snipe them off (although there are some accounts of longbow men being able to pic off escaping men at 1000 feet).  So it's not like we can say the sling is any better or worse than the bow.  In my eyes, I think they would be comparable. 

Another thing.  Ancient armies used huge numbers of slingers.  We know this from recovered texts and images, as well as ten's of thousands of glands recovered at ancient battle sites.  Bows existed, and were used... But why still use slings?  Sure they were cheap, but these militaristic empires had the resources to equip their men with bows if they wanted.   Perhaps they were a superior weapon in the day...  And we know from historical accounts that slingers often out-ranged their archer counterparts. 

There is too much historical evidence to deny.  The sling was the greatest weapon of war (ranged) 4000+ years ago.   It could make or break a nation, which is why the very best slingers were brought in from exotic lands (like the Balears). 

Chris

P.S.  I typed this really quick, so excuse any typos and nonsensical bits.
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David_T
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #46 - Feb 27th, 2004 at 10:30am
 
VIVA LA SLING Grin Grin Grin 

BRAVO BRAVO SIR CHRISTOPHER!! TRUE TRUE

VERY EXCELLANT POINTS. IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A REAL LIFE FUNCTION AND PURPOSE I BELIEVE THE SLING WAS SUPERIOR. IF WE ARE TALKING MODERN DAY COMPETITION WITH A BUNCH OF FAT BOYS SHOOT'N      AT TARGETS THAT AIN'T SHOOT'N BACK--THE BOW IS MORE PRECISE.
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Yurek
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #47 - Feb 27th, 2004 at 5:23pm
 
Quote:
Something has gone wrong in the fast calcules... My results are 4 times biger the drag force for the 2 oz projectil, and so the deceleration will be 2 times biger. But even that, is a great result  in favour of 1 oz lead glans.


Hondero,

You are right, I have made the mistake. I don't know why I squared the ratio of the cross-sections areas. Indeed, it should be 4 but not 16. I will correct above post.

Jurek
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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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David_T
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #48 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 11:36pm
 
For anyone who may be interested in making a "Balaeric" type target.

In inches it would be: 1m = 39.37"

47 1/4" square   (1.2m)
A hole about 19 11/16" in the middle of the square (.5m)
The center of the hole would be 63" up off the ground. (1.6m)

We could all practice on the same size targets and have something to compare progress by?
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mgreenfield
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #49 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 9:48am
 
.....good to know w summer coming on.    Mite just paint one on back of garage.    What distance(s) from slinger to target??    Mite have to shorten it up to use tennis balls.  Then I gess make target smaller to compensate.   Hmmmmm.        Tnx!     MikeG
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Douglas
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #50 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 4:46pm
 
Quote:
Something has gone wrong in the fast calcules... My results are 4 times biger the drag force for the 2 oz projectil, and so the deceleration will be 2 times biger. But even that, is a great result  in favour of 1 oz lead glans.


I think the limiting factor is the available motive force. A rifle bullt weighs less than an ounce, yet has no problem approching and passing the ranges and speeds we contemplate.

For slingers, the weight exercise known as the pullover would increase that...?
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Chris
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #51 - Mar 8th, 2004 at 3:17pm
 
What you have to consider is that there is an optimal weight for a projectile.  You can't just say a half as heavy projectile will got twice or four times as fast.  It's sort of like a power curve for engines.  There is an optimal value where you maximize weight and speed for max power. 

Think about it this way.  If you have a one oz. projectile and you can throw it 100 mph.  Could you throw a half oz. projectile 200?  A pebble 500?  Even in a vacuum it wouldn't matter.  Your arm will reach a certain top speed regardless of projectile weight up to a certain level.  And then it might be worth sacrificing 5 mph to got for a 50% bigger projectile. 

Drag depends heavily on the surface area presented to the air.  A two oz. projectile does not have twice the cross-section of a 1 oz. projectile.   Thus you can get a double increase in mass with like a 1/2 increase in effective size. 

Use lead, or depleted uranium (you want to max out the denseness).  And throw the heaviest amount you can before it gets uncomfortable.  That will yield your best range. 

Chris
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mgreenfield
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #52 - Mar 8th, 2004 at 5:30pm
 
Quote:
For anyone who may be interested in making a "Balaeric" type target.

In inches it would be: 1m = 39.37"

47 1/4" square   (1.2m)
A hole about 19 11/16" in the middle of the square (.5m)
The center of the hole would be 63" up off the ground. (1.6m)

We could all practice on the same size targets and have something to compare progress by?


FYI, I found ranges in an earlier post (forgot by whom, sorry!).  These are:

Paces  Meters     Feet
15                                   9.75         32
30                                  19.50        64
45                                  29.25        93
60                                  39.0         128

Men compete at 30,45,60 paces.  Women, children at 15,30 paces.    Scoring appears to be something like 1 point for hitting the wood, 2 points for hitting the hole.   Shooters get a practice shot & 4 "real" shots.

I think I'll start w tennis balls at a half-sized target and half-sized ranges.   I'll have a chance of hitting something before covering the entire backyard with big gravel.  Grin

mgreenfield
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