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Accuracy Comparison & Competition? (Read 12508 times)
mgreenfield
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Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Feb 23rd, 2004 at 10:16pm
 
The bow&arrow guys have standards for measuring shooter accuracy.   Are we slingsters ready for the same??

Outdoor shooting is at a 49" (122cm) target w 4.8"dia bullseye & 9 concentric rings.   Shooting distances are 30, 50, 70, 90meters for men, 30, 50, 60, 70meters for women (sorry Ulrica).  36shots make a match.

Indoor shooting is at a 24.5" (60cm) target from 25meters, or at a 16.3" (40cm) target from 18meters.

Clout shooting is at a 30"target set on the ground at a 45deg angle, and surrounded by 5 concentric rings on the ground, each 1yard distant from the ring inside it.  Shooting distances are 180yards for men, and 120yards for women.

See www.hickoksports.com/history/archery for more info.

Where shall we start in scoring slingster accuracy??  For the sake of the space-challenged among us, I opt for the simply adopting the short 18meter indoor distance and target.   For ammo at this short distance, I suggest standard tennis balls; chalk dusted to mark the target on impact.

Any interest??    What changes??   mgreenfield
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Dan_Bollinger
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #1 - Feb 23rd, 2004 at 11:08pm
 
There already is a target standard, from the Balearic Islands.  This originally came from Hondero, but I'm going to post this first!

The target is a 1.2m square of wood with a 0.5m hole in the center behind which a steel sheet hangs. Center point for the target is 1.6m from the ground. They used the same target set at multiple ranges. The distances for men are 30, 45 or 60 paces (one pace=65 cm). Women and children throw at 15 and 30 paces.

Records are a little hard to explain: for men, to 45 and 60 paces, hits in the wood count 2 points, and in the metal, 4 points. The slinger can only do one trial shot and 4 valid shots. The record for 60 paces are about 10 points, i.e. three shots in the wood and one in metal, etc. For 45 paces and men, the records areabout 12 points, i.e. three metals, two metals and two woods, etc.I use to say that they dont fail the wood from 60 paces and the metal from 45 paces, more o less.

I used the nearest thing I had, a 48" square of plywood and a round bullseye made from a 55 gallon drum lid, which are 24" round. If you hit the wood it goes 'thud', the lid rings like a gong.  Makes for easy scoring.
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JeffH
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #2 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 12:28am
 
This Baelaric target sounds great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Pun intended)

This is sort of like silohuetee shooting with guns.  Immediate notice of your hit.

Maybe I will get to make myself one of these this spring.

jeff <><
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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Hondero
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #3 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 4:59am
 
Very well explained, Dan, I would not do it better (are not those my own words?  Grin Grin). As you say, JeffH, is very rewarding to ear the sound of the Balearic target announcing the perfeccion of the shot. We have in the South of Spain, in Malaga, another one precision sling contest that uses different rules. In it they participate the goatherds of mountaineous areas, that still uses the sling in the care of their flocks. Been Malaga a tourist place, with splendid beaches and other attractiveness, also are present and  even participate, many tourists (I take advantage of the occasion to promote the national tourism). The contest is to 50 meters distance and the target is a crock of 50 centimeters of diameter (more or less), that is full of flour. The target does not sound like the Balearic one, but when you hit it and break the pot, a white cloud extends suddenly like a really impressive explosion.
By the way, the sling from Malaga is similar to the Balearic one, of vegetal fiber braid and splited pouch.

P.D. I really love accuracy, I tink soon I´ll write something about it for the Articles section, with the permission of Chris. If the accuracy is perfection, and the perfection is a spiritual thing, does isn´t the sling a spiritual thing too ?( sorry Jeffh, I meant a spiritual means  Grin Grin)
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Dan_Bollinger
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #4 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 8:49am
 
Yep, they are your words Hondero!   Grin   Thanks to Ed Somervail for the translation years ago.  5 computer crashes and I still have those old files.  Smiley

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David_T
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #5 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 9:04am
 
Hondero,

Accuracy con honda may not be spiritual but it sure feels muy bien y cuiero lo. Is that how you say: very fine and I want it?

My son and I made videos of slinging and are sending them to Chris. I am hoping that you can watch them. I tried to give examples of different styles that we have talked about here. Please give your comments about them when you see them. I was trying to do a Baleric style slinging like you described in a post of yours. Of course I tried to stay true to the Baleric style by hitting the tatrget all the time Grin Grin ;
Chris is very busy so we will see them when he can get  a chance to post them. I am mailing him a very big file of video, but I was able to e-mail him a couple shorter videos.

In the video, my George the Roman target is a big metal can and a plastic bucket for a head. It makes a very rewarding sound when you hit it. Grin You can hear it in the video. I need to put four in it like the Malaga target you spoke of Grin Grin
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mgreenfield
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #6 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 10:33am
 
I like the fun of thumping, ringing, & exploding targets, too.   But is our little band of slingsters ready to show the big archery world that the sling is STILL a viable alternative to their bow & arrow??  To do this, I say we must:

1/ Show comparable accuracy as they judge it. 
2/ Show superiority by delivering more energy to the target.

In short, we want to hit the archery bullseye (almost) as often, AND when we do hit it, knock it right out of the target instead of punching a tidy 1/4" hole in it.

So, who will be our slinging "Davids", taking on the "Golaiths" of archery??   My, my I AM a competitive old guy, aren't I?  Grin   mgreenfield
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LBray500
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #7 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 10:55am
 
I believe the accuracy of a slinger is inherently poorer than that of an archer.  I do a little of both.  I don't see how a sling thrown rock could ever be more precise than say a pitched baseball (I do a little of that too).  Good archers are very accurate with their shots, typically scoring near perfect (i.e. never missing) scores at 18 meters.  I can assure you, however that their aim would suffer terribly after that first stone buzzed past their head.  Actually from 18 m I'm sure I could hit the target but not in the center every time.  When people ask me if I can hit anything with my sling, I tell them I could scare the living daylights out of them from 100 yards away but it would likely take a few throws before I hit them.  I like the Balaeric target idea.

Larry
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David_T
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #8 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 11:36am
 
Cry

Reality sets in.
The bow is still used in sport hunting today because it is easier for the average joe blow (don't you sometimes feel sorry for those named Joe-- we mean no offense) to use with a degree of accuracy.

I think reality  proves Larry's point that the bow is more precise or accurate if the best of both weapons were competing.

Here in is the attraction and challenge of the sling. Anyone can hit a target with a bow in a few tries.
Take the ten best archers and the 10 best slingers. Assume the slingers had never used a bow and the archers had never used a sling. Give them all bows and watch them all hit the target. Give them all slings and watch the slingers run for cover Grin --the safest place probably being infront of the archers targets Grin

So what is the point? I don't know-- but I'm having fun before heading out to work!

Actually, if I were putting together an army I would want to teach archery first because I could get them "useful" faster. But for the "talented" ones Grin with strong arms I would teach them the use of the sling.
This of course is in terms of ancient warfare.

I love the challenge of the sling and the simplicity. I could throw 10 in my backpack if I wanted and not worry about bending or scratching them. I could throw stones all day from a mountain top and not worry about losing them. If I needed one for suvival, I could make one and  (not too long from now) be able to hit something with it to fry up. I guess the acher would say he could make a bow too but while he was, I would get the game first Grin

It all depends on your preferences I guess.
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Hondero
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #9 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 12:15pm
 
David, "I want it = lo quiero". You are improving your Spanish but I think both have the same problems with the other language: they are as difficult to dominate as accuracy with sling  Angry
Poor man George, all full of flour. If the Romans wake up... Grin I´ll be waiting to your videos to comment them.

Mgreenfield, "So, who will be our slinging" Davids ", taking on the" Golaiths "of archery? My, my I A.M. to competitive old guy, aren't I? "  Yes, we must renew that famous duel in the old Greece of the slingers against the archers. It will be the only way to promote the sling, I´m afraid.

Larry, "Good archers are very accurate with their shots, typically scoring to near perfect (i.e. never missing) scores at 18 meters."  Bah, to 18 meters is not worth the trouble to use a powerful weapon as the sling. You can hit perfectly by hand. Those archers... Grin Grin

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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #10 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 1:08pm
 
Those targets do sound a good idea.  I am sure I would suck at actually hitting them, but I would give it a go.  Accuracy with a bow is very much easier, with correctly spined arrows, and accuracy at long range is easier.  And it does depend on what bow you use.  The sling was probably best used to gall the enemy at extreme long range.
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LBray500
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #11 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 1:17pm
 
I believe historically in warfare both the bow and the sling were used on "area targets".  The warrior had to be accurate enought to lob an arrow or a stone into a massed group of enemies in order to be effective.  This notion of pinpoint accuracy is much more challenging and alot more fun.  Hondero,  I agree 18m is not where the sling is most effective but WOW would those impacts be impressive when you hit the target!
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LBray500
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #12 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 1:35pm
 
Another thought just came to mind that I have to share...

Has anyone heard of archery golf?  "Pins" (a small soft target) are placed at various distances from 100 yards to 500 yards apart.  You might have 9 or a dozen scattered around the area and go from pin to pin.  To play, you shoot toward the target, getting as close as possible, then walk up and retrieve your arrow and shoot again from the point of impact until you hit the target.  Typically an "approach" shot is made, followed by a few closer shots where pinpoint accuracy comes into play.  Variations of this game are played with Frisbees also.  

This would be a blast with slings!  Just imagine.  Rocks whizzing all over the place...  Trying to locate your previous impact...  Swearing and cussing when a throw goes awry... Whoops and hollers if and when anyone actually managed to hit anything...  Maybe the targets could be old junked cars or something similar.  

I about fall off my chair laughing at some of the images that come to mind when David_T mentions an army of new slingers hurling stones every which direction except at the target, or Viscount Niklos getting tangled up in his staff sling.  How about an army of us galloping around on horses with our slings spinning above our heads.  Surely the enemy would fall to the ground in fits of laughter to be easily dispatched by the follow up troops with clubs.
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2004 at 4:09pm by LBray500 »  
 
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Yurek
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #13 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 1:51pm
 
Quote:
...Yes, we must renew that famous duel in the old Greece of the slingers against the archers...


I'm afraid the slingers will not outrun the archers long time yet Sad
I must add fuel to the fire. Here are only some examples:

RANGE

24.10.1979 - Drake Harry, 1.854 m 40 cm (2.028 yards), unlimited footbow;

2.10.1980 - Drake Harry, range  949 m (1.038 yards 1'  11") with recurve bow 25 kg (55,1lb);

2.08.1987 - Don Brown, range  1.222 m (1.336 yards, 1' 3"), bow 60 kg (132 lb), velocity  154 m/sek  (507ft/s);

29.07.1989 - Don Brown, range  (1.022 m = 1.118 yards, 2' 1"), compound bow  33 kg (72,8 lb);

ACCURACY

Curuta  Masatoki, Japan - shot 10050 arrows durring 21 hours, 5383 of them hit exactly the centre of the target from 117 metres.

Well, it breaks my good mood Sad

Jurek

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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Hondero
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Re: Accuracy Comparison & Competition?
Reply #14 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 4:18pm
 
WoW, we have nothing to do in range... and in accuracy... this japanesse people... may be if we teach them with the sling they hit the target to 200 meters Roll Eyes
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He brought a conquering sword..., a shield..., a spear... , a sling from which no erring shot was discharged.&&
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