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Slingers versus archers (Read 15030 times)
Johnny
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #15 - Feb 12th, 2004 at 9:00pm
 
Haven't you guys read Xenophon? The Greeks kept the Persian horse archers at bay with their Rhodian slingers. The Persians got waxed by the Greeks when they brought up their slingers. Get a copy of  "The Persian Expedition" by Xenophon. Great Read!
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I also love sushi..!
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David_T
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #16 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 12:36am
 
Oh No,

I am going to lose my position as "Moderator" if I'm not careful Roll Eyes Forget my comment about a sling being useful as a belt.

Yes, Hondero's post was very interesting and the one of the Greek slingers outdistancing the Persia archers.
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JeffH
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #17 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 2:02am
 
Yes, we must at all times use restraint and modesty when posting.  This is a place abundantly lacking in vulgarities.  Let us strive to keep it that way.

Now, as for slings and bows.  They each have their place.  Fear not slingophiles and archophiles, your weapon of choice remains most formidable and uniquely suited to battle alongside the other.

Personally, I like them both and use them both and make them both.  They are fun to use.

jeff <><
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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Hondero
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #18 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 3:17am
 
Johnny, the text is from Strabo, Geography-book 8. The story is also narrated by Pausanias in his "Description of Greece".
About the sling range Iīve read that only Turkish compound bows could out range the sling. They could reach 600 meters Shocked
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He brought a conquering sword..., a shield..., a spear... , a sling from which no erring shot was discharged.&&
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Ulrica
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #19 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 3:22am
 
Quote:
Yes, we must at all times use restraint and modesty when posting.  This is a place abundantly lacking in vulgarities.  Let us strive to keep it that way. <><


Sorry!
I just couldnīt resist..

Ulrica
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May the stones go your way&&&&//Ulrica
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Hondero
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #20 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 3:33am
 
It was funny.... canīt we follow on with it? Cry
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Ulrica
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #21 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 4:02am
 
Hondero;

I also found it fun and I laugh a lot!
Your part with the sling-protection, was also very good  Smiley

It was harmless and I think it is nice from time to time to get a bit off-topic, as long it stays "okay", and not get to big.. and as long as no one felt uncomfortable and hurt.

And a laugh make you live longer.. that means we can also sling together longer.

Ulrica
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english
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #22 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 4:33am
 
Quote:
About the sling range Iīve read that only Turkish compound bows could out range the sling. They could reach 600 meters

Well, the Turkish compound bow is no better than the Hunnish, Mongol, Avar, Scythian, Chinese, Persian or Indian compound bows; they all use exactly the same materials, or pretty much (ie, sinew, and horn; this vatries, naturally, as to where it is from, as the Chinese used four pieces of water buffalo horn, the mongols used anything they could find, etc).  As to the idea that they could shoot 600 metres, I believe that would only be possible from a mountain top, with a top end bow of draw weight around, say 150 pounds, and a very strong favourable prevailing wind.  I would rather use the bow in any military or survival situation, because I KNOW that it can go a long way, not snag on any branches and be reliably accurate.  I would have to be very confident with my skills with a sling, whereas with a bow, it is easy to be confident, because of it's ease of use and all that.
 Also, I believe that in order-of-first-used, the primitive weapons are:
1: A rock.
2:A stick
3:A club
4:A spear (with fire hardened point)
5. Knapped flint knife
6:An axe
7:A throwing spear
8:A sling
9:An atlatl
10:A bow
Although this of course may be wrong.  And the australian aborigines NEVER developed a bow-type weapon.  Nor, I think, a sling.
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« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2004 at 8:55am by N/A »  
 
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english
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #23 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 5:17am
 
Having said all of the above, I must say that I think the atlatl is the coolest weapon ever: the sling is very cool, but the atlatl is subzero.  And you can kill something the size of a woolly mammoth with one.  Some archaeologists believe the atlatl is the reason for mass extinctions in north America during the late ice age.  So I would probably use one of them, over bow or sling.  Sorry folks.
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #24 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 6:44am
 
This question had to come up sooner or later, but i think it's like asking, who would win: Batman Or Spiderman?  Or, the articles in firearms magazines with titles like,  "Which is more powerful:  .30-06 or .308 heavy loads?"  It's thought-provoking, and great to consider and discuss, but my dad can still whip your dad, no matter which side I take!  The Bow is USUALLY better in confined spaces, but there are certain techniques which allow the sling to ALSO be just as useful in most cramped areas, such as the straight over-the-head  "bowing centerline" technique I've described, as well as one or two others that come to mind.  There's a great website sometwhere that talks all about the ancient Mongols, and says that they sometimes used bows as strong as 300 pounds or more, and the draw weight was customised to match the strength of the archer.  They had to used a full fisted grip, and symmetrical "Sampson-between-the-pillars"-type drawing motion to draw the bows, and a "thumb ring"  (which resembled a sawed-off version of a modern-day guitar) slide to allow the bowstring to slip out of the hand on release without injuring the thumb.  The draw weight was so strong that modern ways of drawing and holding bowstrings would never have worked for the Mongols.  The string was pulled past the ear, and the arrow was held, and shot off of the opposite side of the bow than is done by right-handed archers today.

Another interesting thing is that bows and slings are BOTH difficult to guarantee hits with on small kill zones at long distances using point-type shooting.  If you read the debates on "maximum humane sporting distances" for taking deer, they are surprisingly short (inside of 40m, usually, even for master masksmen.), although people have taken game and killed enemies far in excess of these distances. 

The Benjaminites used both the sling AND the bow, and so would I, given a choice.  Versatility is always preferable.  They are both great weapons, and my mopney in a duel between a slinger and an archer would be on whoever scored the first disabling shot into a vital area of his opponent's body, regardless of the weapon he prefered.

I personally like slings better, but I also really like bows.
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Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #25 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 8:20am
 
According to Kaufmann, the usage of the sling and bow were mutually exclusive. A culture would develop one, but not the other with very few exceptions.

I think one very important weapon was left off the list. The sharpened rock, aka flint knife. The rock, stick and club are all found objects in nature. The knapped stone is man's handiwork, man working a material into a new shape and use. Very important. Without this you don't get axes, spears, atlatls, or bow and arrows, which follow it as improvements.
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english
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #26 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 8:54am
 
Quote:
I think one very important weapon was left off the list. The sharpened rock, aka flint knife. The rock, stick and club are all found objects in nature. The knapped stone is man's handiwork, man working a material into a new shape and use. Very important. Without this you don't get axes, spears, atlatls, or bow and arrows, which follow it as improvements.
  Well, I think that by including the axe, I also included the knapped flint, but I will amend this in my post.  The knife is a weapon I would consider very important, but not a primary weapon, unlike (most of) the others.  But thank you anyway. Smiley
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Hondero
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #27 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 12:24pm
 
English, the problem of the origin of the sling is not solved. One thing is the archaeological evidence, that would place the sling in the Neolithic (ceramic projectiles) and another one the invention possibility, that as you say it would locate it before atlatl, after the bolas (similar intrincacy) that were used already in the inferior Paleolithic (500,000 years B.C. in the half of the period). I am convinced that there is its origin, but respecting the archaeological science objectivity, we must not speak of it before the Neolithic (7.000 B.C.), subsequent to atlatl.
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Chris
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #28 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 4:24pm
 
I don't think anyone can clearly state the evolution of weapons.   Different weapons developed at different times in different cultures.  I think it's a mistake to generalize.  I do, however, believe that the sling generally came first.  It was much easier to produce than a bow (which really required skill specialization).  Ammo was also simpler and easy to produce; unlike arrows.  It also was a natural progression from bolas (or just rocks on cords; tethered slings).  A bow was a much larger technology jump. 

Chris
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David_T
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Re: Slingers versus archers
Reply #29 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 7:54pm
 
Yes, to everything here stated.

But I still say I like the "vesatility" of the sling--weapon or wardrobe!!   Grin Grin Grin And I think either use has its merits. I must say, I laughed more about the wardobe aspect. Roll Eyes
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