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Sling bullets (Read 12560 times)
Chris
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #15 - Feb 18th, 2004 at 1:50am
 
Squashed spheres with a tail on one end coming to a sharp point.  Airfoils are similar to droplets in shape (cross-sectionally), except the bottom side is flatter. 

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Chris
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #16 - Feb 20th, 2004 at 1:34am
 
"Both the Romans and the Greeks went so far as to cast leaden sling bullets known as glans and molubdis in order to increase the range of their weapons."

Quoted from "Hunting Weapons" by Howard L. Blackmore (Walker & Company, New York, 1971).  Thanks to Dan Bolllinger for forwarding me the article.

So..  A scholar thinks there is some merit to the range argument.  And it's not the first time I've read such an opinion.  There is 20 or so active members, why can't we figure this out and shed light on this historic mystery?  I think my summer will be busy with sling-related research.  This is a weapon completely overlooked, for the most part, my archaeologists and historians.  All of us is really capable of contributing to the pool of knowledge on this weapon. 

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David_T
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #17 - Feb 20th, 2004 at 8:52am
 
Both!! It seems that if you use something as a weapon you want to "reach out and touch someone" as far away as posible and do the most damage as you can. The pointed shape seems to address both.
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Eudave
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #18 - Aug 2nd, 2020 at 1:54pm
 
Just an observation . If one roles clay between ones hands it as straight motion .it comes out rugby ball shaped..
  posssibly the Romans saw that these made excellent missiles.and then continued in lead because they were not stupid, and realized its advantages it is only us with advanced technologies  that can pick and choose materials   for optimum performance.
    They did that of course but there choices were not great
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #19 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 2:15am
 
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« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2020 at 4:44am by AncientCraftwork »  

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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #20 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 6:15am
 
and they hit point first.
So all missiles energy is concentrated in that one point.
Also the slightly flatter glandes will do a lot more tearing damage if they hit flesh.

'poorly designed sling'.

Really ?
On what evidence ?
Given they'd have had a few thousand years to develop them - in what universe would they have ever been 'poorly designed' ?
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #21 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 7:53am
 
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« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2020 at 4:44am by AncientCraftwork »  

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Mersa
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #22 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 9:39am
 
I see the glande as a ultimate projectile for the sling. I think the flatness of sling glandes from history speaks more to manufacturing processes than design . The perfect glande is a biconical symmetry. Why is it better than a spherical shape , because it has a better potential to penetrate.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #23 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 10:20am
 
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« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2020 at 4:43am by AncientCraftwork »  

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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #24 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 10:26am
 
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« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2020 at 4:43am by AncientCraftwork »  

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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #25 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 11:15am
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Aug 3rd, 2020 at 7:53am:
I don't think the argument for more tearing damage to flesh is a good argument for what makes a good sling projectile. There are other shapes that will do even more damage to flesh.

I am not saying the glande is not a good projectile, but I don't believe it is the best projectile to be slung.

Because in order for a glande (or any ovoid) to have good rifled release accuracy, the pouch orientation must be controlled in a consistent way that is nearly impossible with a sling. That's why they make the slings fatter and stiffer, which reduces the efficiency of the sling as a lever, but also why they need a delayed release (otherwise it can't fly point first in the first place). And even then the yaw angles of the glandes are almost never equal.

None of this means glandes can't be slung or aren't effective as a volley weapon, which is what they used it for. Its very effective as a volley projectile, also because it can whistle. I mean, they slung arrows/darts too. Like darts, the glande or ovoid is a specific sling projectile that requires a specific sling. It just happens to be the case that this specific sling is usually the easiest type of sling to make, since it has a flat pouch or a split pouch, and therefore it is also the most popular sling type. There are plenty of elongated stones in nature that are retained well in these poorly designed slings. Sadly this type of sling has become the dominant type and is one of the reasons for the slings legendary high skill level and therefore an overshadowing of the sling by other primitive technologies, such as the atlatl and the bow, and even the staff sling. But in cultures that utilized round balls as projectiles (and therefore designed their sling around this projectile), the sling stayed popular as the bow and atlatl for very good reasons.

The optimal and most natural proectile for the sling is the sphere, or in ancient times, the most round stone you can find or clay balls. And most likely their glande slings would not have been able to hold perfect round balls or stones, otherwise they wouldn't have flattened out their glandes either. If a sling requires any flattening of a projectile to retain it properly, it is a rather poorly designed sling.





I've thrown quite elongated glandes with a light, floppy 28" sling, and I can attest that with a bit of practice, one can consistently get a practically perfect release. The reason historical glandes are short and also slightly squashed in one dimension is so that the projectile has a high rate of spin on release, and at extreme ranges still has enough spin  to remain stable. There is no doubt in my mind that they would have experimented with all sorts of shapes, and settled on what was best for their purposes (and that goes for sling design as well).
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Lewis
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #26 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 11:22am
 
Done modifying  Smiley
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #27 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 11:25am
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Aug 3rd, 2020 at 10:20am:
I have about 50 near perfect lead biconicals and have thrown them to know.

I'm interested see how they look.
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Lewis
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #28 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 2:16pm
 
Here
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Jaegoor
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #29 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 2:35pm
 
Wink Abdruck eines Steins, eines glandes quer, und eines glandes spitz.
Es macht Unterschiede deutlich. Einen Stein kann ich nur auf eine Art wirken lassen. Ein glandes kann ich auf drei verschiedene Arten wirken lassen.
Zwei davon sehen sie im Bild. Quer als manstop. Spitz macht ein Loch.
Es gibt noch eine Wirkung. Ich kann es so schießen, daß es unkontrolliert rotiert.  Trifft es irgendwo auf, wirkt es wie ein schredder.. Es prallt unkontrolliert ab und erzeugt schlimme querschläger.
Eine Kugel kann von einem guten slinger quasi um die Ecke geschossen.
Vier Personen stehen hintereinander. Zum Beispiel in einer gestaffelten schlachtreihe. Man trifft nur die hintere Reihe. Das geht mit einem glandes nicht.
Beider Arten Munition sind also wirkungsvoll. Mit einer Balearic sling können Sie beides verwenden. Luis beherrscht diese Kunst, juanjo Caballero, jaume darder, ich und viele andere auch.
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