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Ammo storage:cloak or bag (Read 11305 times)
Hondero
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #15 - Feb 8th, 2004 at 1:28pm
 
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I don't believe the slinger on Trajan's column is fiction. If you look at the details of the other soldiers it is correct with what has been discovered. I know it looks very strange to hold a shield, stones in your cloak, load with one hand and hurl at the same time! But these men grew up doing this every day. It is like anything, the more you practice, the better you get!
Johnny


Jhonny, you are right, I´ve found two slingers in the column: one is without shield and other with it. Both with the stones in the cloak. Dont know if there are represented more slingers in the column but at least this one shows that Romans sometimes use the shield with the sling, though it seems difficult to throw strongly having an arm busy catching the shiels and the cloak with the missils. Of couse they would not win the Guiness this way but at least were well protected  Grin. Other thing is that the Balearics used the shield. They were much more efficient slingers and use to fight with little equipment and great performance.
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Hondero
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #16 - Feb 8th, 2004 at 1:58pm
 
Dan, the slinger boy of the famous Bayeux tapestry is a very little detail (few cm) in the border of the very long tapestry. It´s very difficult to find except for slings trackers  Grin




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Ulrica
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #17 - Feb 8th, 2004 at 2:27pm
 
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Sure, Anything for a slinging buddy! Everyone is free to use this image. It is large, but the file size is low. I scanned this image and cleaned it up from Arther Ferrill's "The Origins of War", p. 24. "This depiction from the early Neolithic settlement at Catal Huyuk in modern Turkey shows that the sling was used in Neolithic times."


Hi Dan!

When I first saw your pic, I thought it was a face: a nose and a mouth. It really took a while before I realized it was a slinger...

Can it has a "doubble meaning" or is it just me?  Wink

Ulrica
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #18 - Feb 8th, 2004 at 2:58pm
 
Hondero. That is a much better quality than I've seen, plus it has some color, which helps even more. I take back what I've said. What I thought was the shield (on his left side) is really a black spot behind his left hand and his coattails at bottom left. I don't see a shield now.

Ulrica. It must be you! I don't see the face without great imagination.   Grin  I think this would make a good teeshirt or poster image for slinging activities.
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Hondero
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #19 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 1:07pm
 
Johnny, finally I´ve found the references about the stones bag of slingers. It´s not relative to Balearics as I thought but to others people as Greeks, old Libyans and the proper Romans.
Strabo mentions an interesting duel in the first Greek epoch between an archer and a slinger with his bag of stones. I´ll expand the subjet in a separate item because of  the interest of such a type of contest.
Diodorus describe the old Libyans (people from all north Africa) as fighting with three javelins and a sling with its bag of stones.
Finally, there is a gravestone in wich is shown a Roman man with a sling and the bag of stones.
But about Balearics, many times represented with the bag, I´ve found nothing. Have I dreamed it?
Bah, sure they used the bagˇ

Hondero
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Johnny
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #20 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 2:19pm
 
Hondero
That is some great information!
Do you have a photo of the Roman gravestone ? I would love to see it! Also, which book of Strabo describes the archer/slinger duel? Thanks again for your great efforts!!
Johnny
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David_T
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #21 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 2:36pm
 
Ulrica,

Yes, It is a hidden picture of a man's face! The nose is pointing to the left, lips tight together, the sling is the top outline of his nose--right?
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Ulrica
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #22 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 2:49pm
 
YES!
I´m not the only one that can see that  Grin  *relief*

One can see it best on the small picture.

Ulrica

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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #23 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 3:13pm
 
Sometimes I also see the left side of the face but sometimes I see the slinger. It swaps for me Smiley

Jurek
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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Ulrica
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #24 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 4:06pm
 
First I always see the nose, and after that I see the slinger just because I know he is there   Smiley
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #25 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 4:38pm
 
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I also know an engraving from century XIV representing the War of Nájera, where it appears a slinger with a small shield facing several archers with longbows (without shields, English  ).
  Ok, I still hold by my point.  The small shields, known as bucklers, were attached by way of a few long straps, to the right forearm.  There were made of steel.   and they were also used by fifteenth century archers, around the time of Agincourt (1415).  So theoretically, it would be possible to equip a slinger with the same type of shield and not hinder his ability to shoot, surely?  I will try to purchse a piece of wood and make a small round board, attach long straps and strap it to my arm.  Being left handed, I am sure it won't impede my shooting.
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Hondero
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #26 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 4:51pm
 
English, it´s more confortable to use the buckler for an archer than for a slinger. The first is more still when shooting. But as we said, the Roman slingers use the shield sometimes.

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Hondero
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #27 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 5:17pm
 
Slinger, man face.... psicologically meaninful, he he.. but apart from the opinion of the authors Arther Ferrill and Ulrica, what about a third interpretation like a primitive archer performing a dance seizing the bow by an end?
I´ve seen drawn some primitives archers that way  Roll Eyes

Hondero
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #28 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 5:28pm
 
Hi guys,

I am an ARMA member (www.thearma.org) and have done a bit of reading about shields.  A buckler is a small shield with a central handle which is held in a fist grip.  They were commonly used by knights, archers and other men at arms.  They were often hung from the sword hilt when not in use.  I think a small shield strapped to the forearm would be categorized as a targe.

In either case, I have not tried slinging stones while holding a shield but will try some experiments.  I think it should be fairly easy with a bit of practice.  I would immagine that it would be easier with a buckler.  Now to do this with a load of stones on a cloak would take a bit more practice I would think.  If I was using a shield I think a bag for stones would be the way to go.

Anyone interested in more info on sword and buckler use should check out the links below.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/SwordandBuckler.htm

http://www.thearma.org/essays/LeignitzerSandB.htm.org/essays/SwordandBuckler.htm


Enjoy,

Scott Adair
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Chris
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Re: Ammo storage:cloak or bag
Reply #29 - Feb 20th, 2004 at 1:27am
 
"An early thirteenth-century manuscript in the British Museum (Harl. MS. 4751, f. 8) shows the sling being swung preparatory to release. A scene showing a slinger attacking birds over a plough in the Luttrell Psalter of c. 1340  is interesting because the huntsman can be seen carrying a supply of stones in a fold of his dress."

...

Quoted from "Hunting Weapons" by Howard L. Blackmore (Walker & Company, New York, 1971).  Again, thanks to Dan Bolllinger for forwarding me this short, but informative article.
   
Chris
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