DuckofDeath wrote on Dec 7^th, 2007 at 4:05pm:



Yes, you are right, but i think both designs are equivalents. I´ll try to bring here Bertrand drawing

Hondero wrote on Dec 8^th, 2007 at 3:58am:


Although it kind of looks like that, wouldn't that be a rather unstable arrangement? When I took a second look long ago, the thought occurred to me that what looks like a taut cord attached to one corner of the pouch is actually the edge of an elongated rigid cradle on which the dart rests, and what looks like the back edge of the pouch is actually a crease where the hinged front of the cradle is bent up to take the point of the dart. You can't see the other side of the cradle or where the the two rear cords attach to the back end of the cradle because the dart is in the way. My two cent's worth...      

Maybe the metalic pouch could have a little case to hold the point. Like a wire box or something?

Here is a little info.. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://forums.sjgames.com/image.php%3Fu%3...

[quote author=DuckofDeath link=1074713443/285#291 date=1197268933
If you have a skinny flat piece of wood--like a little ruler--you can lay the dart on it so it balances. The two bottom fins will stick out over the edges of the wood.
[/quote]

I understand you but what i said was that the drawing of Bertrand was somewhat wrong, confuse, because in the way he has drawn the dart, the two fins can not stick out over the edges of the wood because the third fin would lean vertically over the flat piece of wood. So, a retention cord that starts from the little pouch under the point and separates in two cords under the fins that are seen, passing the third fin(not seen) between them, would be the other interpreattion of the drawing. Ah, my english is the problem, i suspect. But your idea is feasible if you place the dart propperly over the flat wood. If you try it tell us the results please

MiXoNFLaSHeR wrote on Dec 9^th, 2007 at 6:36pm:


I think you're on to something here. A curved metal hinge or a curved piece of metal sheet attached to a flexible flap would secure the point without giving the point anything to snag on.

Wow!  You rock!.....I mean that's no"rock"......umm.....you rock at cestros!

DuckofDeath wrote on Dec 10^th, 2007 at 2:34pm:



After these hollidays I retake the work on kestros   I think you are right about the Bertrand drawing and that it try to sketch a long pouch, so, to be precise, I´m going to modify the picture of the differentes ways to throw the cestros I´ve included before. But to use a rigid pouch as if it were a launching pad, though it may direct the dart a little better than a flexible pouch, it generates more air drag in the throwing, not allowing great ranges. Besides, such a rigid pouch would had been described specifically by Polibius, what neither he nor Livius did. I think that the drawing of Bertrand can represent really a conventional pouch stretched by the weight of the dart. When I began to practice with the Kestros some years ago I remember I made one first sling thus, nevertheless I saw that the dart really did not lean in it, but in the end and the two cords below the fins, so the sling could be made without that long pouch and replace it by a small pouch only for the point and a small loop to hold the tail, as in the equivalente design I use instead the one of Bertrand. A so long pouch also produced much friction with the air when casting. It is evident in addition that a conventional pouch constrain Bertrand to place the fins very advanced, decreasing the stabilization of the dart in the flight and making that long tail completely needless. Everything point out that the Bertand design is a bad solution. My adaptation of his design does not need an advanced position of the fins, has a  configuration much more aerodynamic of the pouch and the balance of the dart in it is equally good.