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Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona (Read 11910 times)
Whipartist
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Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Oct 7th, 2003 at 4:20am
 
The Balearic Federation of Sling-Shooting. 

Back in 1998 their address was

Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona, c/
Olmos, 31, 07003 Palma de
Mallorca: tel/fax: (1) 72 62 50,
Wednesdays, 7-10:30pm 

That was back then.  Maybe it stills the same maybe not.  But to me it's all jibberish and I don't speak Spanish. 

Their website  http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/6404/

It seems pretty run down.  There is an email for anyone who can speak Spanish.  Give it a try.  I'm up, can't sleep, hoping someone will jump on this information.  Jim Burdine must know more than I do.  He was in contact with Jesus Vega Hernandez back in 1998 too.  It was on a thrower list.  Back at that time I sent Jesus the article in Scientific American for help with his book.  But it seems in his Spanish libraries he had a lot of information we don't have.  Especially being in contact with the association too.  I'll put some of the posts I've saved of his back from 1998 below.  I believe he was responding to questions from James Burdine and a Phil West who lived in the UK.  I know James is on this forum but I don't know about Phil? 

I just wrote Jesus tonight, so I hope he replies.  His email is likely changed.  Because he knows English he is a good go between.  Here are some of his posts.  Hope you enjoy.  This one is on the Federation.

>Asunto: FEDERACION DE TIRO CON HONDA
>Fecha: jueves 5 de febrero de 1998 10:43

>Hello, slingers,
>here is more information about the "Federacin
>Balear de Tiro con Honda". It is 20 years old and is a local, insular
>Federation. It has three Delegations in the islands of "Palma de
Mayorca",
>"Menorca" e "Ibiza". The bigest one is of the Palma. The federation
gather
>about 2,500 slingers (woman an children included). The children(scholars)
>activities are very importan and they summ the 80% of the slingers. In
>that, actual Balearic imitates old ones who gave grait importance to
>children training.
>There are not Delegations in the rest of the country. Im tryin to do
>something about in Madrid.

>Adult activities consists in 12 insular competitions a year(in each
island)
>and the general Balear competition each year.

>The only publication avalaible, at the moment, is the Official Reglament.
>Ill try to resume some interesting points of it for you:

>SLING MATERIALS: All kinds of organic materials. Artificial fibers,
>plastics, metals, etc. are not allowed. There are not restictions in the
>shape and building of the sling, but the maximun length(folded) must be 1
>meter.

>PROJECTILS: Natural stones, without any kind of artificial working or
>manufactoring.

>(Lead projectils are nor considered in officil competitions because of
its
>risk. They are really a lethal gun. As you know they were comunly
employied
>by balearic troops in the Romans wors. Its not dificult to find this odl
>projectils, with an metal detector, in diferents places of our country.
>Ive got some. The use of lead projectils is "another thing", very
>interesting).

>TARGETS: A wood square of 1,20 meters and in the center a metal circle of
>0.5 mts. (You can easy distinguish the sound of the hits).

>DISTANCES: 20, 30,40 and 60 mts. And LONG DISTANCE (maximun lenth
reached).

>RECKORDS: Complicate to explain here, as there as diferents distance
>modalities and combinations of themm. An general idea of records might
be:
>-20 mts: all shots hit the metal circle. -40 mts: all shots hit the wood square
>- LONG DISTANCE: 160 mts. (with lead projectils you can reach much more

>length).

>HANDS: Its not allowed security gloves and other protections. Hand must
be
>completly andressed.

>THROWING STYLES: All styles are allowed(overhand, underhand, lateral,
>diagonal, etc.), but is obligatoty to make at least two turns before
>throwing.

>Finally and most important, they are working on a Web Page and an
>interesting Video, showing sling braiding, throwing technics,
competitions,
>etc.
>As soon as posible, when finished, Ill send to you te Page address and
how
>to get the video.

>Enjoy it, amigos

>TONKASILA, compadre, es un placer escribir en espaol. En ingls tengo
que
>consultar continuamente el diccionario. Saludos.

And a second post from him....
 
> Unfortunatelly there is no a handbook about sling throwing technics in
> Federacion Balear de Tiro con Honda. Learning is a practical matter,even
> children learn the technique playing. They are teaching using tenis
balls,
> that are not dangerous, easy to recover and throwing easy controlable
whit
> an apropiate sling. Of cause is a play and a fun for them.
>
> Months ago I started writing a handbook on the matter, trying to be
> systematic and based on the tips of experimented slingers(this will take
> much time), the clasic texts and my own experience and self observation.
I
> merely begun it and by now is resting. Here are some fragments and ideas
> than could be helpfull for someone:
>
> Of all posible throwing styles, and after have experimented with them,
Ive
> found that the most efficient is the "Iberic" style, mention for Roman
> authors: Overhead and making three turns before release. Even the number
of
> turns, that seems to be a personal matter, looks to be something
decanted
> along the times, and in fact is the most eficient way of fiting together
> the speed, power and precision of the throw.
>
> The start position may be diferent:
>
> Natural: The sling resting along the body.
> Hunting: The sling streched betwen both hands at waist level.
> Greek: The name is because is recorded in greek coins. The right hand is
> over the head, the elbow pointing to the right; Left arm is stretched
> horizontaly to the left. The head turning and looking to the left, that
is
> the direction of throwing. Its a very nice position that can be used for
> brusque throwing(without turns).
>
> Never matter the initial position, the first turn is to fix the turning
> plane.
> The second turn is for add some speed and to "feel" the mass(centrifuge
> force) of
> the projectil - something realy important for the final "pull from
> backward".
> The third turn is the effective pull, that give the real and eficient
speed
> to the projectil.
> Spining frantically the sling serves for nothing, only to get an
> uncontrolled shot. The only reason of spining is to get the tension, the
> inertia force that permits and efective clutch from backward and the
> absorption of whole impulse.
>
> The third turn begin when the hand pass in front of you and consist in an
> helicoidal movement that carry the projectil from an horizontal turning
to
> an vertical and forward
> one. This is the esential movement, that gives the final aceleration and
> direction. Its
> a vigorous stroke that makes the sling whistling like a wip.
>
> When one have got a lot of practice the three turns links one to another
> in an only and unconscious movement that goes automatically from initial
> position.
>
> Nevertherles to be the best style, there are anothers very eficients for
> diferents purposes, as hunting, projectils rain, brusque thowing, etc.
>
> The analysis in detail of diferent stiles exceed the extension of this
> mesage. If someone is interested we can follow other day.
>
> The learning can be estructured in four stages:
>
> 1- Position technics
> 2-Plentiful throwings with medium power and heavy projectil- esential for
> "mass feeling"-
> 3- Normal projetil throwing and maximun power.
> 4- Precision training.
>
> The last stage is essentialy sicological, and consists in forgeting the
> technics, the stages, and to get an unconcious habit of throwing that
> develop from the decision of shooting. Adding more and more speed to the
> technique, is posible to get the automatisme. Once you have got it, the
> precision is a sicological cuestion, a matter of want to hit, of imagine
to
> hit, of feeling the pleisure of hit, and let the unconscious to do its
> work. There is no posibilities of precision consious control in such a
> dynamic exercice as sling throwing.
>
> Fynally, as it is obvious, is necessary a lot of practice to get the
skill.
> I calculate that for a beginner is necessary one or two thousands
throwings
> before get the apropiate technique of "Iberic" throwing. But...... How to
> get it in a few days, and without having to store 300 Kg. of stones?
> Here is a trick, that at least in my case has worked:
> Take an egg shaped stone and carve a groove around it. Tie a nylon string
> with a running knot.At the other end of string make the tipical finger
> subjection. You have built an indoor sling, and can practice without risk
> the necessary time. Use it even in a vigorous way, simulating authentics
> throwings. The only care you have to do is to give a free way to the
> trajectory after throwing. If not you can hit such a parts of you, and it
> hurts a lot, realy.
>

I believe I have one more post of his at my other email.  I'll go get it and post it right after this one if I have it. 

                                             Ben
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Whipartist
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #1 - Oct 7th, 2003 at 4:28am
 
Here is the final post from Jesus V.  Ben


Benjamin,
you are right saying that information about sling is
difficult to get. I even have not the Scientific American article, and in
the Federacion Balear neither exist a manual on the technique. All about
sling seems to be private experience and tips. Thats why Im trying to
write a sling manual, but to collect the knowledge and technique of others
slingers is a hard task that will take to me much time. By now I can only
speak of my own experience and the style Ive seen to some others balears
slingers.

Curiously, balear people use to throw with vertical turning and shoot from
the lower point of the turn, not underhand but changing the trajectory to a
lateral, horizontal plane. -Its not easy to me to transmit the right ideas
in my poor english, Im sorry if sometimes you get lost-.
Ive experimented with the method and I thing that is good for the
competitions they regularly have, in which they have only to hit a target
and the power of the hit does not matter. They employ heavy stones that are
easy controlable and wich inertia in the lower point of the turn is
excellent to permit the clutch and shooting.

I preffer the "Iberic" style - I call it so because was used for the Iberos,
the people that live in Spain when the Romans arrived here. The style is
described for romans authors of those times.

The Web of Federacion Balear goes very slowly. You can see some few things
at:

http://www.geocities.com/ColosseumField/6404


The helicoidal movement of the tird turn in my style, is the trajectory you
have to do to thow in a vertical plane coming from an horizontal plane of
turning. The final pull in that way -vertical plane, as in baseball
throwing- is good for geting accuracy but is a litle complicated. You can
also throw from an horizontal plane -the third turn will be then fully
horizontal- but you must to be very carefull with the driftage. I means, the
stone will often go to the left becuase of the circular inertia of the
throw. In fact this is the style Im finally using, and is a way more
natural and you can get more power.

One importante thing in any style you adopt is to end the throw with the arm
completely stretched forward, in the direction of the target.

Well, there are many things to say about all this, many details to consider.
Finally, when you get the right technique and are enough trained, the
movements go very fast and the accuracy is surprising. The sling is a
prolongation of your hand and you can feel the accuracy inside you. I like
to think that accuracy has almost no limits, and in fact is a matter of
feeling, of wish. Of course after a lot of trainig.

Long live the sling

Jesus V.

I know I posted quite a lot of material.  Hope you guys enjoy it.  I wanted to get it all out at once since I have it on my mind.  Now I can sleep.

                                        Ben
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #2 - Oct 7th, 2003 at 8:14am
 
Great stuff!!

We need to let  Jesus know he has some "Gringo" slingers waiting anxiously for his Slinging Mannual! At least this one is. There was some very good stuff just in what you posted. The competion distances target size accuracy they have... Keep it coming

Thanks much Ben!
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #3 - Oct 7th, 2003 at 9:13am
 
Ben,

Reading of the Jesus' letters gave me the true pleasure. I found in them a lot my own experiences and senses. Thanks.

Jurek
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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #4 - Oct 7th, 2003 at 2:00pm
 
Thanks for the post, Ben.  Lots of good stuff there.

Do you think he is still working on the manual?  How would we find out?  If he is not, what about a manual composed of things we can glean from the members here at Slinging.org.  Historical information combined with graphics/pics of the techniques.  This would not be to closely define the techniques as much as to get new slingers started.

Fred Asbel did some videos several years ago on how to shoot a bow in the traditional/instinctive style.  The information was clear, simple and useble.  Like this, we could compile a short manual of information which could be put into 50 pages or less and made readily available to those who want to get started slinging.  The manual could also be web-based if we could get enough video footage to make it worth-while.

Am I making any sense here?  I guess my point is to capitalize on Chris' work here at Slinging.org and help him continue toward making this the number one resource for slinging information on the web.

jeff <>< who is excited about Slinging.org!
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #5 - Oct 9th, 2003 at 4:09am
 
Hello

The spanish slinging club has a on webside. Go to www.tirdefona.com.

There is a virtuall slinging museum on www.teleline.terra.es/personal/j.vega/aa-primitivas.htm

enyoy it

brugger
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #6 - Oct 9th, 2003 at 5:45am
 
Thanks for the link Brugger,

I'll reply about the sling making asap.

                                 Ben
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #7 - Nov 17th, 2003 at 9:43pm
 
Hondero,

In the information about slinging you mention the different types of practice. One is easy slinging--slinging at a slower speed. And then there is slinging at a faster, more powerful speed.

My guestion is this: can you give me help on faster slinging? I can release the stone with accuracy at slow speeds but I can not release at the right time consistantly when slinging at a faster speed.

With some practice, I learned when to release at a slower speed, but with the same or even more practice, I still have not been able to be accurate with my release??
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2003 at 11:08pm
 
Try a longer sling.  They you can rotate it at a slower angular speed but get more force.

Chris
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #9 - Nov 18th, 2003 at 4:09am
 
David,

Did Hondero talk about different speeds?  It's too late right now, for me to go back and read all that stuff I posted from him.  I don't want to contradict the expert, but speed variation would probably throw my aim off.  Is he refering to stone weight instead?  Practice with stones that are extra heavy can help train you to really get the feel and get in the groove I think.  I hope Jesus Vega is keeping in touch with the board.  It's been slower lately.  And for slinging too.  Too much rain to sling without ripping up my grass!

                                            Ben
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #10 - Nov 18th, 2003 at 7:27am
 
Chris,

I have tried the longer sling/slower speed as you mentioned and you are definately correct there. If I were to estimate my "arm power" I would say that when I get a bit frustrated with my inconsistancy slinging at 90% AP, I will often drop down and sling at maybe 60%AP  and just lob the stones at the target. When I do that, I hit it more often and more consistant.

I guess it is like anything else---the faster the speed --- the more dificult it is to have precise control.

If I am going after both speed with accuracy I imagine the answer is mucho practice more than some magic technique Undecided
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #11 - Nov 18th, 2003 at 8:32am
 
Ben,

You are probably right. He did mention using heavier stones in his first practice m e t h od to get a feel for the position of the stone during the rotation. I still wonder if his "maximum power" with normal projectile means more arm power? Hopefully he will see this guestion. I just started a spanish coarse--Pimsleurs Approach. I have had a stanger urge to to it for a while.

HI HO off to work I go Smiley
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #12 - Nov 18th, 2003 at 8:34am
 
Thats " strange urge to do it Sad
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #13 - Nov 18th, 2003 at 9:45am
 
Hi David, when you say slinging to more speed, do you mean to turn around or to shoot at more speed? If first, it is necessary to say that fast turning around  is not much important, and on the contrary, usually it is detrimental because it produces errors of control in the firing. Only very expert people can get a little more advantage from spinning speed in regard to the range, but in any case in regard to accuracy. There is a very common error between the people who speak of sling theory, and is to say that the firing is based on the centrifuge force developed in the spinning. Thats a nonsense, as it would be necessary to turn around at the speed of a beater to obtain a respectable range. The truth is that the important thing is the final pull, just like in baseball; that is the one that provides acceleration to the stone. If you talked about that, at the speed of firing, obvious is something more difficult to have accuracy with a powerful firing than with a smooth one, but not much more. It is the same thing that sending stones by hand. Last, after a lot of practices, one does not think about controlling the firing, but about  hitting  the target, feeling the accuracy . I recommend to practice a lot sending stones by hand, or balls of baseball. When accuracy is acquired thus, the precision with the sling comes soon. But it is necessary to practice a lot if one start from zero, certainly. When I was a child, in the semi-rural village I lived at that time, the boys used to throw stones by hand to birds and betwen bands -we were a little savage then. It was no much dificcult to me to get accuracy with sling many years after.
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He brought a conquering sword..., a shield..., a spear... , a sling from which no erring shot was discharged.&&
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Re: Federacio Balear de Tir de Fona
Reply #14 - Nov 18th, 2003 at 11:38am
 
Ah, David, congratulation for starting a spanish cours, I hope soon Ill be able to write in spanish the expressions I cant handle in english... or you can read my sling handbook directly in spanish. Any way, Im in the way to publish it here, in spanish, but might be interesting another publication in english. Do someone of you think there would be an editor interesting in it? Then, Ill need an expert translator to english that also was a slinger, knowing the  words ad hoc.

Salud
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He brought a conquering sword..., a shield..., a spear... , a sling from which no erring shot was discharged.&&
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