The comparison between the kinetic energy delivery of a sling and a .44 magnum holds true, so long as the slingstone is large enough. The kinetic energy of a 16 gram .44 round is 1036.8 Joules. For example, it is possible to match the kinetic energy of a .44 magnum with an 8 kg stone thrown 26.45 meters, or a 4 kg stone thrown 52.9 meters. It becomes increasingly difficult with smaller stones. For example, a 125 gram stone must be thrown hard enough to reach 1692.73 meters (about a mile). These estimations are made, assuming a 45° launch angle, without taking wind resistance into account, using:


velocity = √(distance·9.8/sin(2·angle))


Joules = kg·m/s²/2

meters	kg
13224.49	0.016
3385.47	0.063
1692.73	0.125
846.37	0.250
423.18	0.500
211.59	1.000
105.80	2.000
52.90	4.000
26.45	8.000
13.22	16.000
6.61	32.000

My calculations:
velocity based on distance.xlsx

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timothyausten wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2024 at 1:28pm:

an 8 kg stone thrown 26.45 meters

Hmmm...........where to find an 8 kg stone???  ::)

I'd like to see you sling an 8 kg stone 26.46 meters. You might have to pirouette, or use a staff sling, or both. 😃

I started looking at cannon balls on ebay.  ;D

Kind of expensive, but not too crazy.  I think I might give it a go.  It will need to wait a little while though.  I hurt my left arm moving my target around and it still needs some healing time.  I'll definitely need two good arms for handling that weight.  I'd prefer the weather be a little warmer too.  So maybe in the spring.

Take it easy. 😎

These comparisons are eyecatching, but I would question their usefulness. As a relatively large man at full sprint I can exceed the kinetic energy of a .44 round.

Ke = 1/2 mv^2 = 1/2 * 110 * (5m/s)^2 = 1375J

Yet a rugby tackle from me would obviously not be as lethal as a 44 round. Not even as much as a 22 round which is far lower energy (and probably a better comparison of the type of energies that can be generated with a sling generally).

With bullets we have to consider the lethality of a small dense object effectively focusing that energy to a small area. The pressure that can be created at impact point is enough to tear holes through flesh which can have lethal effects. Huge slingstones cannot generate that kind of pressure and cannot kill via that mechanism. It's really comparing apples and oranges at this stage.

I often hear the .44 magnum comparison being repeated, but without any facts to back it up. I recently I saw an Instagram post claiming to throw with the same energy or with the same stopping force as a .44, and the slinger was only throwing a medium-sized rock, like around 100 grams. I couldn't find the origin of the claim, or any mathematical analysis to support it.

I've only seen empirical tests with ballistics dummies and various food targets, but they don't always say quantitatively how much energy goes into the throw, which is why I've done a ''back of the envelope" analysis here. I am not looking to debunk the .44 claim, so much as show under what circumstances it might be possible. If anyone wants to record a .44 magnum equivalent throw, then they can use the analysis here to support their demonstration.

JudoP wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 9:41am:

These comparisons are eyecatching, but I would question their usefulness.

100% agree.  As timothy mentioned, the term normally used in this claim is 'stopping force' or 'stopping power'.  The term itself is pretty unspecific, and nowhere I've seen making this claim includes an explanation of how they determined stopping power.

I think it's perfectly fine to push back on this claim.  There was a post on Instagram not too long ago sharing it, and I left a comment referring to it as an urban legend.  The person who posted the claim mentioned a Net Geo video and I was able to find this: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/ancient-slingshot-lethal-44-magnum-scotland (Note: When you go to this site, you will need to enter an email address to view the article.  You can certainly use your own, but you can also just use a fake one like peanutbutter@jelly.com, or something like that and it will show you the article.)  The article is from 2017 so could possibly be the initiator of this claim.  But like all the others making this claim, there is zero explanation about how the comparison was determined.  This is the specific claim made in the article:

Recent experiments conducted in Germany showed that a 50-gram Roman bullet hurled by a trained slinger has only slightly less stopping power than a .44 magnum cartridge fired from a handgun.

And that's all the info they give.  :-?
And that statement is immediately followed by this one:

Other tests revealed that a trained slinger could hit a target smaller than a human being from 130 yards away.

I feel that I've seen some pretty amazing slingers in the short amount of time I've been involved in this stuff.  But sorry, targeting an individual person from 130 yards (118 meters)?!  Tell me another one!
Given enough chances to make the hit, sure.  But that's conveniently not part of the article.  They definitely let it be implied that a slinger is going to make that hit regularly.

In short, yeah, I'm totally fine with pushing back on the .44 Mag claim.  At least until someone explains how they calculated/determined stopping power.  Then it might make sense.  But I think the concern there would be similar to what JudoP mentioned.  I'm sure we could find tons of other things that also have the stopping power of a .44 Mag.  Like a big guy running.  ;D

I commented on one of Joe's responses that contested the claim. it was, for some reason, deleted.

A slinger theoretically throwing a 6oz (170g) stone at 100m/s (224mph) would generate ~850J of energy, which is comparable to the energy generated by a .45-70 or .30 carbine, but no where near a .44mag.

I highly doubt even the best slingers in the world could throw a 6oz Stone at 100m/s unless they were freaks of nature that pushed the threshold of human physiological potential. And to reach the same amount of energy with the most common weights of projectiles throughout history (1-3oz/28-84g), it would require velocities beyond human capability.

With a 3-6oz stone, 22LR is the most plausible comparison for elite slingers; maybe 9mm for the best in history. But .44mag is a hard no.

joe_meadmaker wrote on Dec 4^th, 2024 at 7:08pm:

I started looking at cannon balls on ebay.  ;D Kind of expensive, but not too crazy.  I think I might give it a go.  It will need to wait a little while though.  I hurt my left arm moving my target around and it still needs some healing time.  I'll definitely need two good arms for handling that weight.  I'd prefer the weather be a little warmer too.  So maybe in the spring.

Sand cast one with lead. The diamter of an 8kg lead cannon ball should be about 2in, so slightly smaller than a tennis ball.

Q wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2025 at 1:44am:

I commented on one of Joe's responses that contested the claim. it was, for some reason, deleted.

Oh wow!  All of the replies are gone.  I remember your comment, and posted another reply too.
Well, I guess that girl running the account has shown she doesn't actually care about slinging, she's just using it to grab attention.  Kind of disappointing.  Now I have to talk myself out of leaving another comment asking why all the questioning/pushback was deleted. ::)




Q wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2025 at 1:54am:

Sand cast one with lead. The diamter of an 8kg lead cannon ball should be about 2in, so slightly smaller than a tennis ball.

That's a really good idea.  But I reeeeaaaaaaaally want a cannon ball.  ;D

Well, I can't grant your wish on a cannon ball but as consolation here is a picture of Chesterfield Cannon Mill - a place where they were made.
Enjoy.

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I think a lot of people get the 'stopping power' claim from the momentum of the projectile. Since momentum p=mv , compared to kinetic energy K=1/2mv^2 it scales better with mass of the projectile and is less dependant on speed. As a result you can make even more eye catching comparisons with bullets!

Sling:
p = mv = 0.1kg * 40m/s = 4 kgm/s

9x19mm:
p = mv = 0.008kg * 350m/s = 2.8 kgm/s

44 magnum:
p = mv = 0.016kg * 360m/s = 5.76 kgm/s

So the momentum of a 100g stone slung at 40m/s far exceeds a 9mm round and is fairly close to a 44 magnum.

The same criticism still applies but even more so:

Me at full sprint:
p = mv = 110kg * 5m/s = 550 kgm/s

So if the sling has comparable stopping power to a 44 magnum, I have about 100x as much stopping power than a 44 magnum  8-)

The problem is stopping power seems to be quite ill defined, and the lethality of bullets is not really due to their transfer of momentum. Otherwise the person holding the gun would suffer the same injury through recoil of the actual person getting shot!

Quote:

Oh wow!  All of the replies are gone.  I remember your comment, and posted another reply too. Well, I guess that girl running the account has shown she doesn't actually care about slinging, she's just using it to grab attention.  Kind of disappointing.  Now I have to talk myself out of leaving another comment asking why all the questioning/pushback was deleted. ::)

I was disappointed as well. I had no beef with the channel/podcast and was looking forward to supporting it, but if they are going to delete comments trying to correct info then its a no from me dawg.


Quote:

That's a really good idea.  But I reeeeaaaaaaaally want a cannon ball.  ;D

If you mean an iron cannon ball then yeah...I have no idea how to smelt iron in a backyard foundry without it getting a little bit spicy lol.

I'd try to cast you a lead cannon ball if I had excess, in part because I would also get the benefit of confusingmy local post office with a 18lb small priority box. Unfortunately, good 'ol Pb is getting harder to come by these days in the islands (a 1oz sinker is like $2-3 now  :o ) and I mustn't part with my precious.

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JudoP wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2025 at 1:33pm:

So if the sling has comparable stopping power to a 44 magnum, I have about 100x as much stopping power than a 44 magnum

;D ;D ;D




Q wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2025 at 2:09pm:

I had no beef with the channel/podcast and was looking forward to supporting it, but if they are going to delete comments trying to correct info then its a no from me dawg.

Completely agree.

It looks like National Geographic is the culprit here for originating the .44 claim, for publishing an article in 2017 entitled:
Ancient Slingshot Was as Deadly as a .44 Magnum

Yeah, I linked that as well in one of my earlier posts.  I was able to find the author's website and did send her an email about it.  I just asked if there was any information about the experiments that were done.  No info yet, but I'll let everyone know if I get a reply.

I may be new to slinging, but I've been reloading for a couple decades.  Personally, I'd have to call BS on the .44 mag claim.  Sure, you might be able to cherry pick some random reloading data that "technically" backs up the claim, but that doesn't mean much to me.

A couple examples:

My only 44 mag is a Ruger super blackhawk hunter.  I shoot a pretty mild load in it because I'm not a fan of recoil.  Just checked those reloads and they are 245gr bullet chronographed at 1370 fps.  That converts to 6.61 Kgm/s.  Again, that is a mild load from a 7.5" revolver.  That same load in a 18" lever-action will probably clock around 1800-2000 fps.  So, maybe, you can make a comparison, but one needs to cite some specifics.

Another "in real life" experience occurred on my first black bear hunt in Ontario.  I took a 45 Colt lever-action with my handloads.  In a lever-action, the 45 Colt is as good as or better than the 44 mag depending on the load.  I don't remember the exact specs, but I think is was a 300gr bullet with a mv of 1800-2000 fps.  On about the 4th day of the hunt I finally got a shot at about 30 yards.  I hit and blew through that bear with that load.  I know that because, one, we had a blood trail, and, two, when I shot the bear he was walking in front of the bait bucket, which I also blew through.  Initially, I didn't know this.  Later, after investigating why the bucket was leaking, I saw two clear holes in the bucket.

I don't know how hard I can/could sling a stone, or other projectile, but I highly doubt I could sling it through a 250lb black bear. 

If I were ever in the unfortunate circumstance that I had to choose between having a .44 mag from a firearm, or whatever projectile from a sling, fired at me at 30 yards, I know which I'd choose.

Specifics matter in this kind of discussion.  The same load fired from a 4" revolver and a 20" rifle vary wildly.  Even if you limit it to revolvers, the results can be vastly different depending on barrel length and model.  A double-action S&W isn't as strong as a single-action Ruger.  That is why many of the "bear" or "+P" loads are "Ruger only" loads.  Again, specifics matter and I could be wrong.  I may or may not have consumed some bourbon before typing this response and that possibly could have affected my judgement.

Interesting discussion regardless.  Sorry for rambling.

Ha!  You're all good man.  Sometimes great thoughts come out of rambling. ;D

Yeah, I think we're all on the same page here.  Still no response from the author of that article, but it hasn't been long.  I still have a hope that one will come in.  Maybe they're trying to dig up some old info. ::)

But when using a scale where a .44 mag bullet and a sling glande have an equivalent rating, ridiculous stuff like a guy running fast is also equivalent.  Which unfortunately makes the claim much less impressive.

I do still wonder if they had some test where similar damage was done to a target by both.  That would be interesting to learn about.

Q wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2025 at 2:09pm:

Quote: Oh wow!  All of the replies are gone.  I remember your comment, and posted another reply too. Well, I guess that girl running the account has shown she doesn't actually care about slinging, she's just using it to grab attention.  Kind of disappointing.  Now I have to talk myself out of leaving another comment asking why all the questioning/pushback was deleted. ::) I was disappointed as well. I had no beef with the channel/podcast and was looking forward to supporting it, but if they are going to delete comments trying to correct info then its a no from me dawg. [quote] That's a really good idea.  But I reeeeaaaaaaaally want a cannon ball.  ;D

I have no idea how to smelt iron in a backyard foundry.

I'd try to cast you a lead cannon ball if I had excess



[/quote]