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General >> Project Goliath - The History of The Sling >> Old Indian
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1730379726

Message started by TOMBELAINE on Oct 31st, 2024 at 9:02am

Title: Old Indian
Post by TOMBELAINE on Oct 31st, 2024 at 9:02am
Who tested this style and what do they think about it ?
For me, everything he says is right and works well.
https://slinging.org/22.html

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 1st, 2024 at 9:09pm
I agree.  The described throwing motion is very similar to the one we were testing out in this thread: https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1676541844.  The body position is a little different.  It is definitely powerful and effective.

And if the description of the accuracy is correct, I would absolutely loved to have seen that!

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by IronGoober on Nov 1st, 2024 at 9:57pm
That's funny. I was just trying this out today. I had 5 hits in a row on a small bush I was aiming at. It is definitely effective. There are very few variables which make it a pretty repeatable style.

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by StaffSlinger on Nov 4th, 2024 at 5:48pm
Thanks for finding that "old Indian" posting.  Very interesting.  I enjoyed the Greek Vase post by Tombelaine from earlier...

Now that temperatures are beginning to cool off here in Southwest Florida I'll be able get out some more and practice.  My goal this time is to perfect this Indian/Greek hunting throw...

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by IronGoober on Nov 5th, 2024 at 1:48am
This was what I have understood as the apache style throw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqtv2o3T2AI

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 5th, 2024 at 10:26am

IronGoober wrote on Nov 5th, 2024 at 1:48am:
This was what I have understood as the apache style throw.

+1.


Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by xud9a - call me zud 👍 on Nov 5th, 2024 at 11:04am
No wasted energy or effort.
😁👍

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 7th, 2024 at 4:24am
For me, there are two important details.
The arm what launches must pass vertically from the body. Compliance with this axis produces the accuracy.
Keep your arm straight. This increases the level arm considerably and gives power.
I still have work to do but I think is a good style : simple to learn, powerful and accurate.

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 15th, 2024 at 5:18am
The old Indian tells that stones "speak" when they are hit with another stone. Ok, I test.
On the photo, the stones weigh 60, 70, 75, 80, 90 and 100 grams. They are made of chalk. Except that of 75 grs which is cement and both in granite (70 and 82 grs).
The rock of the bottom is the hammer.
Depending of their weight, they sound the same. More acute, light when they are light, more deaf when they are heavy.
I am far from having his knowledge, but what this old Indian says is an openong on nature that escapes us completely. I have a lot of respect for his knowledge.

001_016.JPG (118 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by StaffSlinger on Nov 15th, 2024 at 12:56pm
Interesting Tombelaine... Do you have access to audio recording equipment where the "sound of two stones striking" can be recorded and displayed as a waveform?  That would be really fascinating and objective...

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 15th, 2024 at 2:44pm
No, my test is by ear. It's probably not very accurate. If someone can get into it, it will be captivating.
Remember that Old Indian worked by ear. As often, the truth is between.

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by StaffSlinger on Nov 16th, 2024 at 10:41pm
When you're my age and wear hearing aids you don't trust your ears anymore. I KNOW how much hearing I've lost!  The beauty of instrumentation is that what it hears it records exactly and can play back exactly what it recorded.  To err is human, as they say...

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 17th, 2024 at 6:53am

StaffSlinger wrote on Nov 16th, 2024 at 10:41pm:
The beauty of instrumentation is that what it hears it records exactly and can play back exactly what it recorded

+1
But the stones "speak".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trTDTCixA_c

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 17th, 2024 at 9:31pm

TOMBELAINE wrote on Nov 17th, 2024 at 6:53am:
But the stones "speak".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trTDTCixA_c

That was awesome! :)

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by xud9a - call me zud 👍 on Nov 21st, 2024 at 6:43am
I like it !
😁👍

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by timothyausten on Nov 21st, 2024 at 4:23pm
Cool 😎

Title: Re: Old Indian
Post by Morphy on Dec 25th, 2024 at 11:47am
Awesome video Tombe.

Getting back to the Apache...so one thing I think is worth mentioning is the potential it has for limiting angular deflection of the pouch at release. Any throw that starts and ends the entire powerstroke in the same plane should limit unwanted angular deflection. And since the plane is perfectly vertical you get a really easily repeatable angle.

Which *possibly* means you could take advantage of a longer slings larger release window while minimizing the corresponding increase of angular deflection that a longer sling produces. Hope this is making sense.

In which case you could essentially have the best of both worlds.

Now...add to that a concept that NOOC first defined which is pulling the sling downwards (this is with a purely vertical apache throw) as you going into the final part of the powerstroke and you could potentially flatten the radius of the sling further increasing the release window to an even wider amount.

Is any of this possible in real world use? Not sure. But theoretically it should be. In which case the Apache really could end up being the most repeatablly accurate throwing style.

I used it quite a bit for about a 6 month period. The speed and accuracy I was getting towards the end just kept improving. Not sure why I quit practicing it.

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