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General >> Project Goliath - The History of The Sling >> Ancient jewish sling
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Message started by jeffbonds on Aug 24th, 2024 at 5:35am

Title: Ancient jewish sling
Post by jeffbonds on Aug 24th, 2024 at 5:35am
Does anyone know what an ancient jewish sling would have looked like? If we could go back and see David with his sling what would that sling have actually looked like would it have been a woven basket pouch or a split pouch?   

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by TheTomato on Aug 25th, 2024 at 5:51pm
From looking at archeological data by the Israel Antiquities Authority and spending a couple of days looking for Historical papers on the subject, it seems there is no answer as to the specific make of the slings.
There is a lot of archeological evidence of sling-stones, yet the slings themselves did not seem to survive.

Because there is no surviving archeological or historical record, it is possible to speculate based on a couple things:

1. Slings found in Tutankhamun's grave have a woven pouch, so the woven pouch might have been more common locally. Since the levant was very influenced by Egyptian culture, the design of the sling may have been influenced as well.

2. In the same vain, Greek and Akkadian culture were also highly influential , so it may be worth seeing if there is any literature on that topic.

3. (this is the most far-fetched one) Most modern day slings in the region have a closed pouch (either woven or a piece of leather/fabric) and not a split one, so that may indicate that ancient slings had one as well.

TL;DR No one knows, but I think a leather/woven pouch is the most probable guess. as to the rest of the sling construction we have even less of a clue.

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by Ahnkochee on Aug 28th, 2024 at 4:58pm
I agree, that it would be very similar in style to those used by the ancient Egyptians. 
Sling_Egyptian.jpg (58 KB | 15 )

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by TOMBELAINE on Aug 29th, 2024 at 6:17am
The reasonning is far too fragile. I think we don't know.


jeffbonds wrote on Aug 24th, 2024 at 5:35am:
a woven basket pouch or a split pouch?


And why not this one ? Only leather. 0 archeological sling in Israel, so any sling is possible.



fronde_espagnole_001.jpg (37 KB | 19 )

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by TOMBELAINE on Aug 31st, 2024 at 4:39am
Jeffbonds, your question is interesting but has no answer so far.


TheTomato wrote on Aug 25th, 2024 at 5:51pm:
it seems there is no answer as to the specific make of the slings.

TheTomato is right.

What basis can be used to think about this question ?

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by TOMBELAINE on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 11:49am
What the Bible says ?
David is still a child and he keeps the sheep.
But I have a question. Why my bible (in French) talks about flat stones, while a bible (in English) speaks of round stones ? Is there a translation error or does the word aramaic have a vague meaning ?
I don't know.

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by xud9a - call me zud 👍 on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:31pm
Hey Tombelaine,
That is a can of worms best not opened.
The bible has been re translated so many times as to render the bulk of it ..... meaningless.
The english King James bible was absolutely written to the current standards (then) of spoken english.
The latest working is that Mary was a 'healthy' birth .....quite a difference from 'virgin' !
If they get something as vital to the christian faith as that wrong there isn't much hope on wether stones are flat or round !!
Either way its a faith narrative, not a factual one and therefore open to interpretation by theologians.
Leave them to it, I say.
Be happy.
:-? [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by TOMBELAINE on Sep 4th, 2024 at 4:36am

xud9a - call me zud 👍 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:31pm:
Quoi qu'il en soit, c'est un récit de foi, pas un récit factuel et donc ouvert à l'interprétation des théologiens.
Laissez-les faire, dis-je.

Half agree with you.  :-/

The question isn't fundamental but do we know the words for sling and slingstone in Aramaic ?
Does anyone know the oldest version of the text ? To have a more scientific translation.

Anyway, we have others ways of approaching the issue to answer for Jeff Bond's question.

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by TheTomato on Sep 5th, 2024 at 5:10am

TOMBELAINE wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 4:36am:
Does anyone know the oldest version of the text ? To have a more scientific translation.


I may be able to get some sources on the specific wording in older texts, but it'll take me a couple weeks probably. I'll post here when I get leads!


Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by David Morningstar on Sep 5th, 2024 at 7:41am
There is a strong correlation today across the world between shepherds and wool slings. It is not 100% , the best known exception being the Spanish shepherds who use plant fibres. 

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 5th, 2024 at 11:42pm

David Morningstar wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 7:41am:
strong correlation today across the world between shepherds and wool slings

This makes sense to me.  Certainly not a guarantee that's what was used.  But people will generally make use of what they have readily available.

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by Caspian on Sep 6th, 2024 at 12:15am
Yeah, this isn't scientific per-se, but the hot climate combined with woolly sheep that need to be sheared for their sakes would lead to an excess of wool to be used in blankets, clothing, headwear, and slings. At least that is the case for shepherds. City folk back then who couldn't raise many sheep, if any, would likely have linen at their disposal - slings being one such disposal. Easier to process flax in a city than to keep a sheep, and easier to maintain, too  ;D

As for pouch, whether split or woven: who knows? I sure don't. We can assume their slings were similar to Egyptian slings as stated above, but we can assume many things, and whether they're fact or fiction, none can say. One could guess, as per 1 Samuel 25:29 that the pouch of slings was as the palm of one's hand - the Hebrew word translated as "hollow" or "pocket", "כַּף", means flat and hollowed, usually used to say "hand" in the sense of the hand being open and flat, ready to give or take. So, one could guess that perhaps the typical sling of that era was enclosed, either via weaving or by leather.

Regardless, it's not hard to imagine that slingers throughout time can personalize their slings, so maybe while Abigail is used to closed pouch slings from Nabal's shepherds or whomever else, it might not have been the typical. Just some speculation  ;)

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by TOMBELAINE on Sep 6th, 2024 at 5:33am

TheTomato wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 5:10am:
I may be able to get some sources on the specific wording in older texts, but it'll take me a couple weeks probably. I'll post here when I get leads!

Thanks ! We are with you.

Title: Re: Ancient jewish sling
Post by TOMBELAINE on Sep 6th, 2024 at 5:57am
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1407576041
We had a long discussion about the slings quoted by Homer. For linguistic reasons, it is possible that they were made of goat hair.
During archeological excavations in "the mines of King Solomon", clothing of poor people made from goat wool was found.

David Morningstar wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 7:41am:
There is a strong correlation today across the world between shepherds and wool slings

For these three reasons, I would go for a sling entirely in goat hair.

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