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General >> Other Primitive Weapons >> Reinventing the plumbata
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Message started by IronGoober on Oct 30th, 2023 at 5:24pm

Title: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by IronGoober on Oct 30th, 2023 at 5:24pm
A film by: Archaic Arms

Had to post this, 'cause it's so good!

https://youtu.be/AwXPLZ1SrPk?si=SaOCGb14OhbBpwoP

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by TOMBELAINE on Oct 31st, 2023 at 5:46am
Very good job.
:) :)

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by slingbadger on Oct 31st, 2023 at 5:48am
There was a weapon called a kestrosphendones that was very similar in nature. Descriptions of in in texts don't give a very good idea of how it looked and worked however.

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by Sarosh on Oct 31st, 2023 at 8:10am
@ slingbadger

kestros is described as shorter and thicker dart resulting in completely different ballistics, this fits much better into the plumbata description and capabilities

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by JudoP on Oct 31st, 2023 at 9:11am
Very cool video and cool invention. I think this fits into the category of: "It's so good I find it hard to believe it wasn't used in anger at some point or other".

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by IronGoober on Nov 1st, 2023 at 12:57am

slingbadger wrote on Oct 31st, 2023 at 5:48am:
There was a weapon called a kestrosphendones that was very similar in nature. Descriptions of in in texts don't give a very good idea of how it looked and worked however.


My impressions of the kestrosphendone was that it was thrown by a sling. Is that incorrect?

The main advantage AA was trying to point out about this version of the plumbata was that this didn't require loading into a sling, but it gets somewhat similar range to a sling, so it can be fired more rapidly.

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by Archaic Arms on Nov 1st, 2023 at 8:15am
Thank you all! It is just a experimental concept, but inevitably the question of how it might actually fit into ancient warfare is raised.

Here is my reply to a certain someone that goes by "Lloyd": ;)
It is indeed a device that sits a little awkwardly between javelins, bows, and slings. I believe that if it were to be deployed, it could be given to slingers to train with, to replace the heavy stones (~350-450g) that were used against heavy infantry. The slingers will already be deployed in such a way that they have room to use them, and while the darts are a bit more expensive, the reduced weight, greater range, and increased terminal effect that a 200g dart could provide over a heavy stone, could perhaps give it a worthwhile place in the army.

As fellow slingers, what is your opinion on this notion?

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by Sarosh on Nov 1st, 2023 at 11:57am
after seeing it used I think any soldier would be able to use it.

spinning and swing techniques seem to increase power and speed and this makes me ponder if other javelin types used from long ranges were eventually thrown with spinning techniques. This conclusion was almost reached in modern olympics even with a very small percentage of throwers in modern society.

A spinning/swing technique seems more promising than a straight throw with an amentum and a good antagonist to the atlatl. Maybe a reason we don't see wide use of the atlatl in the mediterranean is because a spinning technique with the amentum can outshoot the atlatl

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 1st, 2023 at 7:44pm
I finally got a chance to watch this one.  Awesome video AA!  All your videos are usually very exact and on point as to the information being given (just to mention, that's not meant in a bad way at all).  But the exploration and "what if" aspect of this one was very interesting and entertaining. :thumb:

The only thought I had while watching it is I would have used a big fat release knot instead of a loop.  Probably less of a chance at being historically accurate, and also more chance of one slipping out of the grip, but I think the release would have been easier for me to be accurate with a knot.  Admittedly that's based on zero experience.

Title: Re: Reinventing the plumbata
Post by IronGoober on Nov 1st, 2023 at 10:41pm
I think that a lot of people in the comments don't understand what a Kestros was (large dart in a sling), and how you were meaning to use this technology to essentially marry the penetrative power of the plumbata with the range of the kestros into one simple weapon and effectively have the best of both worlds.

I think the idea is a great idea and likely to have been used. So many people in the videos' comments say it is more expensive than a plumbata, but it is literally the same thing, just a longer shaft... it would be the same amount of resources to make, but have better performance, so would have made much more sense to use.

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