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https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl General >> Project Goliath - The History of The Sling >> Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1698105090 Message started by Thearos on Oct 23^rd, 2023 at 7:51pm

Title: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by Thearos on Oct 23^rd, 2023 at 7:51pm

Maybe an Amazon, maybe a Thracian. Slings big stone with medium sling, his body turned away from direction of shot to ensure maximum torque, and he has a shield held in one hand ! But I don't think he has a bag around his body.

Published by the https://www.carc.ox.ac.uk/XDB/ASP/recordDetailsLarge.asp?recordCount=8&id={7A12A0AC-D5AD-46FD-900E-6B087D15192B}&fileName=IMAGES200%2FGER99%2FCVA%2EGER99%2E4942%2E3%2F&returnPage=&start= Beazley archive, Berlin ANTIKENSAMMLUNG, F2690, 425-375 BCE

Slinger_with_pelte_copy.jpg (138 KB | 123 )

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by TOMBELAINE on Oct 24^th, 2023 at 9:31am

The slinger just dropped the pouch.
Thanks for sharing. It looks like the other recently studied image, except for holding the pouch.
Good question, Thearos.

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by thabaill on Apr 11^th, 2024 at 5:15pm

Hi. It's me or is the pouch made of three straps?

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by joe_meadmaker on Apr 11^th, 2024 at 10:59pm

Thearos wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2023 at 7:51pm:

maybe a Thracian

I could go with that. Shields with a cutout like that often seem to be from Greece (area). Other areas could certainly be possible, but offhand I don't recall seeing any.

thabaill wrote on Apr 11^th, 2024 at 5:15pm:

Hi. It's me or is the pouch made of three straps?

I don't see that myself. I zoomed in and it just looks like a representation of cords and possibly a pouch.

One of the things I like most about this depiction is the angle. Almost all images of slingers show them from the front. In this image we see the slinger from the back. It gives a different perspective which is pretty cool!

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by thabaill on Apr 18^th, 2024 at 8:17am

joe_meadmaker wrote on Apr 11^th, 2024 at 10:59pm:

May be it's just me, but I think I can see very clearly the pouch is made of three straps. Like in this coin.

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/pamphylia/aspendos/

Also I think I can see the slinger in the vase from the front, whirling the sling with the right hand and holding the shield with the left one ;D :o

Probably I am wrong but it is what I can see.

Greetings

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by joe_meadmaker on Apr 18^th, 2024 at 10:53pm

You could be right. I definitely can't see anything in the pouch clearly enough to call it either way. In both images though it appears to be two cords coming up to the pouch. Then it turns into a mess. ;D

thabaill wrote on Apr 18^th, 2024 at 8:17am:

Also I think I can see the slinger in the vase from the front, whirling the sling with the right hand and holding the shield with the left one

You could be correct on this too. The reason I think we're seeing the slinger from the back is because of how the shield is held. It looks like the hand is over top of the shield grip, which would make it the right hand from our angle. If it was the left hand and the slinger was facing us, it should be underneath the grip of the shield. Another thing is the straps across the back (or maybe the front ;)). I think these straps are holding a piece of armour or other protection on the front of the torso.
But they could also just be suspenders holding up his skirt. ;D

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by thabaill on Apr 19^th, 2024 at 4:54am

I think the fighter is holding the shield this way

It is just the painting is a bit deteriorated or not so detailed to see the tips of the fingers or the nails. Also it seems that shield in the vase picture has only a handle and no arm strap.
Also the zone of sling pouch in the vase seems a bit chipped. But I think I see three straps. Just like in the coin where the sling pouch seems represented somewhat as a trident head. But it is actually a representation of the sling pouch folded because it is holding a stone or bullet. The hand holding the pouch seems a bit strange compared with the good representation of the figures in the coin.
I think the straps on the chest (or the back) are just suspenders ;D

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by TOMBELAINE on Apr 19^th, 2024 at 5:39am

On your link, there are three lines ; on mine, only two lines. So ...

v34_0240.jpg (134 KB | 58 )

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by thabaill on Apr 19^th, 2024 at 6:59am

Actually it is pretty uncommon. The one I posted is the
"SNG vA 4568 Aspendos, Pamphylia. c370-333 BC. AR Stater. Two wrestlers grappling; FN (retrograde) between, MENETYΣEΛYΦA (or variant) in exergue / EΣTFEΔIIYΣ, slinger to right; triskeles in field. SNGCop 228"

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by joe_meadmaker on Apr 19^th, 2024 at 4:02pm

@thabaill - The other images have convinced me. I stand corrected. :thumb:
I think I'm seeing the image incorrectly.

As I look at the image, another thing that makes my brain think we're seeing the slinger from the back is because the cords of the sling appear to be behind the head. It just looks weird to me. That can certainly be attributed to the deterioration of the image (as you have mentioned), as well as the artist's interpretation of what a real slinger would have actually looked like.

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by thabaill on Apr 20^th, 2024 at 6:37pm

joe_meadmaker wrote on Apr 19^th, 2024 at 4:02pm:

As I look at the image, another thing that makes my brain think we're seeing the slinger from the back is because the cords of the sling appear to be behind the head. It just looks weird to me. That can certainly be attributed to the deterioration of the image (as you have mentioned), as well as the artist's interpretation of what a real slinger would have actually looked like.

It happens the same in the coins. The sling appears behind the head too.

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by joe_meadmaker on Apr 20^th, 2024 at 10:56pm

thabaill wrote on Apr 20^th, 2024 at 6:37pm:

It happens the same in the coins. The sling appears behind the head too.

True. But in those images the pouch is being held. Not in a position that it would need to be in motion.

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by thabaill on Apr 21^st, 2024 at 4:08pm

joe_meadmaker wrote on Apr 20^th, 2024 at 10:56pm:

True. But in those images the pouch is being held. Not in a position that it would need to be in motion.

You are right. That detail is a bit confusing.

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by funditor on May 8^th, 2024 at 11:39am

As much as I really love to see a previously unknown image of a slinger, I am not convinced this is one. The pelte shield usually goes with a spear for light infantry, and this could well be one... if you extend the line behind the person towards the left, there seems to be a line as well, which would perfectly be an extension of the thought sling. The conservation status is not perfect. If anyone has additional information to counvince me, i would be happy to change my opinion.
We should be careful to interpret carefully, like on the situla of Welzelach, where the thrown object is probably a throwing stick for rabbit hunt.

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by joe_meadmaker on May 8^th, 2024 at 11:08pm

I think you're correct. Sarosh also pointed it out in this topic where the same image came up: https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1709755717.

Sarosh's comment: the vase depicts a javelin with amentum

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by Thearos on May 9^th, 2024 at 11:40am

Oh no, Mr Funditor must be correct: the left hand suits a javelin cast far better. Apologies for wasting your time.

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by thabaill on May 18^th, 2024 at 6:08pm

I have just found this! ::) ;D

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by TOMBELAINE on May 19^th, 2024 at 10:37am

A rare testimony on everyday life in ancient Greece :D

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by Jaegoor on May 20^th, 2024 at 5:05am

I own the original 😜😂🤓

FB_IMG_1655973526599.jpg (262 KB | 52 )

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by joe_meadmaker on May 20^th, 2024 at 9:08am

Holy heck!!! Is that real Jaegoor?!

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by thabaill on May 20^th, 2024 at 4:00pm

Jaegoor wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 5:05am:

I own the original 😜😂🤓

Hahahaha! ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Post by slingbadger on May 21^st, 2024 at 6:14am

Didn't know Dennis the menace was Greek