Somehow, my shoulder is knackered: there is a calcium deposit on a tendon which makes movement (esp above shoulder level) painful. So I can't sling my usual style (three rotations above head and far back, then slashing release-- with lots of problems of slack). I now sling sidearm and "short-arm", i.e. pulling the arm close to the chest and letting the sling do the work. Oddly this has resulted in better shooting and good accuracy; but no power shots, only carefully placed, often lobbed ones. Distance shooting out of the question.

Sorry to about the shoulder. Tried slinging with your other arm?

It sounds like you've already seen a doc, so I won't tell you that you should see a doc.   I've been through decades of shoulder problems (including both arthroscopic and open surgeries), so you have my sympathies.   If I was in your situation, I suspect I'd be seriously considering having that calcium deposit removed.   I doubt it'll go away or get better by itself and I suspect your level of slinging ability will continue to decrease.   Good luck with however you handle this!   

  I went through a period for years where I could only throw underarm due to shoulder pain, from arthritis I suppose.  After several years I had resigned myself to the fact that this was the way it was going to be for the duration.  Then it mysteriously healed itself.  Hopefully something like that will happen to you.

Thank you, all. The doc said to start with physiotherapy and see; the PT thinks the calcium might get absorbed by the body.

Slinging with the other arm: my brain can't figure out in which direction to spin, when to release, etc, without stopping to think about it.

Thearos wrote on Jul 9^th, 2022 at 10:14am:

Thank you, all. The doc said to start with physiotherapy and see; the PT thinks the calcium might get absorbed by the body. Slinging with the other arm: my brain can't figure out in which direction to spin, when to release, etc, without stopping to think about it.

Your last sentence gave me a flashback.   I had to stop shooting darts with my right arm years ago because of shoulder problems, so I got into shooting left-handed.   It was difficult and I never did get anywhere near as good with my left arm as I was with my right.   

   I tried slinging with my left arm.  It was scary.

There's actually quite a lot you can do with your arm kept fairly low.
A waist level wind up with sidearm release just using wrist and elbow works well.

Likewise pure underhand is good for distance.

Shanie you're not nearer it I could sort you out with a few different styles to try.

You can also use your legs and waist to put back some of the power you lose from the shoulder.

I suspect I've probably got this coming at some point as both parents and my sister have a had similar shoulder issues.
My mum and sister had tendon tears repaired and both had bony deposits chiselled off somewhere.
Somewhat disconcerting as they only use local anesthetics.

I take similar joint supplements to the ones we give the dogs.

Just started one with turmeric and green mussle extract (chrondrotin ?) as well as glucosamine.
I think my knees have improved, but only been on it a few weeks.

Touch wood, never had any right arm issues.
Left arm has dodgy shoulder from when I popped the joint some years bach, and I detached the left bicep a while back as well.
Rehabilated myself without surgery, got it back to full strength in about 4 months.

Both currently work fine, but definitely going to have issues at some future point in time.

Good luck and keep taking the tablets :-)

Find a very good physiotherapist, preferably someone who also treats athletes. Let us show you exercises that you can and should do at home. Shoulder problems can take a long time to heal.

hubert wrote on Jul 11^th, 2022 at 12:42pm:

Find a very good physiotherapist, preferably someone who also treats athletes.

I agree with this.  That is the best way to heal as quickly as possible. They help athletes get back to competing quickly and this has been the case for me in my own experience.

ty

But I will NEVER sling underhand. NEVER !

Any particular reason ?

It's a very versatile style and would have been extensively used to drop rocks behind walls and barricades in the past.

It's also pretty good for target slinging
Nice straight vertical release with a missile rising.

If it's because of some weird American machismo thing.
Watch some 'softball' pitchers.
Buggered if I'd stand in front of them !

Obviously a softball pitch uses the shoulder extensively .
With a sling you can get away with just using the wrist and elbow, for much the same effect.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LaV1eep_VlM

You know what they say: there are no bad slinging styles, just bad slingers  ;-)

Personally I don't like helicopter style, but it's effectively used by a lot of people despite its many drawbacks :-)

   Though I don't get quite the distance throwing Underarm as I do with other styles it is my most accurate.  I find it very effective for certain circumstances.  I don't understand your dislike  of it but to each his own. 

It always seemed to me mechanically inefficient. This was striklngly illustrated by an archaeological article on slinging and hillforts, where a series of drawings broke down the movement (the drawings showed a bearded man, presumably the author, in a sort of tunic). The end movement and release, with a sort of raised shoulder and hopeful upwards movement of the whole body on tiptoes, were familiar to me from experimentation, and particularly reminded me of how weak the form is at converting body movement into forward release and speed. I seem to remember the underarm form used by other specialists (Thom Richardson), with bad results. The idea that this would have been used historically struck me as unlikely. In contrast, helicopter, sidearm, and fig-8 all converge into effective release in the final stage. They are all attested historically and ethnographically. Is there any evidence at all for underarm being used in such contexts ?

I also find timing of release more problematic with underarm often resulting in ridiculous upwards shots, difficult to adjust. And I speak as someone whose shots aways drag left and high.

These two reasons (mechanical weakness; problematic release times) are why I don't sling underarm, preferring helo (before shoulder issues and in spite of slack issues), "Makron" (one rotation from body facing away), and now sidearm (vertical rotation(s) and side-release).

Here is an extract from an Italian movie on Caesar (itself used in an old French documentary on Alesia-- for you, TOMBDELAINE). You can see slingers. Their form is not bad. But I think that e.g. helo would be mechanically more efficient (wrist rather than arm) and allow for better energy transfer.

https://youtu.be/GUQp7PB3XE0?t=3395

The multiple Balearic Champion Diego Camuñas uses a fairly low effort underhand technique in his mid 70s with high effect, you could try that

Kick I remember you made a video, did you upload it to youtube yet?

I tried it and it works fairly well, this is my backup technique when overhand and figure8 are not more possible 😉

I thought Diego Camunas was more of a sidearm ?

Thearos, Thank you for the video.

You can try this method. This is my idea of the underarm style. I can throw with it to 100 meters.

It's the wrist that turns, not the arm. At the drop, release the retaining line at the beginning of the ascent with your arm horizontal.
Like the tapestry of Bayeux if you want an historical example.

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That's exactly the drawing I was thinking of ! That final picture always seemed to me the epitome of mechanical ineffectiveness, with that uplifted, forced shoulder. Can you really make it work so well for yourself ?

Of course, Thierry La Fronde also slings underarm, but his style is terrible

I see that I was already griping about underhand style in 2010:

https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1274311439/0

that Finney's thesis is available here (ht Wanderer)
http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/396/1/Jon_Bryant_Finney.pdf

and that he got underwhelming results with his underhand (as noted by Morningstar)

and that Aussie got into the physics, as usual.

Thearos wrote on Jul 16^th, 2022 at 4:20am:

It always seemed to me mechanically inefficient. This was striklngly illustrated by an archaeological article on slinging and hillforts, where a series of drawings broke down the movement (the drawings showed a bearded man, presumably the author, in a sort of tunic). The end movement and release, with a sort of raised shoulder and hopeful upwards movement of the whole body on tiptoes, were familiar to me from experimentation, and particularly reminded me of how weak the form is at converting body movement into forward release and speed. I seem to remember the underarm form used by other specialists (Thom Richardson), with bad results. The idea that this would have been used historically struck me as unlikely. In contrast, helicopter, sidearm, and fig-8 all converge into effective release in the final stage. They are all attested historically and ethnographically. Is there any evidence at all for underarm being used in such contexts ? I also find timing of release more problematic with underarm often resulting in ridiculous upwards shots, difficult to adjust. And I speak as someone whose shots aways drag left and high. These two reasons (mechanical weakness; problematic release times) are why I don't sling underarm, preferring helo (before shoulder issues and in spite of slack issues), "Makron" (one rotation from body facing away), and now sidearm (vertical rotation(s) and side-release).

   Of course every slinger is different but I don't find Underarm to be mechanically weaker.  The reason why I don't get quite the distance from an Underarm shot is that the topspin associated with such a shot causes the projectile to drop rather than rise as does a shot with backspin on it.  I also don't have any problems with the release of an Underarm shot.  But slinging is a very individualized sport so to each their own. 

I went slinging and tried the Finney-style undearm and shuddered with disgust

You just felt dirty? Didn't you? lol

My english is not very good. It's sometimes difficult to explain my ideas.

Do not gesticulate the arm.
Just turn the wrist. I turn twice, accelerating constantly.
When releasing, throw your wrist forward.
And rotate your wrist so that the opening does not go up but to your left side, if you want to increase the distance.

The important thing is the constant acceleration during the two handle turns.

Thearos, your video is "les grandes batailles du passé", "the great battles of the past. This tv show is at least fourty years old. It's nice to see it again so long after.
Thanks.

Yes, that works, but that is not how Dr Finney slings, with his horrible shoulder lift. I call this style "Thierry le Bossu". We all know that it's the sling, not the arm, that does the work ! What you describe is a sort of relaxed sidearm, I have no problem with that.

I watched "Les Grandes Batailles" by Henri de Turenne as a child, and later in video. I always loved the Alesia one.

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My english is not good.
My release isn't sidearm but it's really underarm.
Finney's style is his conception of underarm. Gesticulate the arm is not a good idea.

Finney was not a slinger.
Pretty much everything he ever said about slinging was completely wrong.

So, yeah, if that's your only reference, you will have problems :-)

Good, hard and accurate underarm is done without using your shoulder in any significant way.
It's actually the best style to learn first, as it demonstrates what the sling can do with very little effort on the users part.
It's mainly wrist, with a little elbow, and like every other style, just another weapon in a slingers armoury.

Like the underhand in this, but done standing up :-)
https://youtu.be/1xSdOtttLAo

Also the sidearm in that is pretty shoulder friendly.
And used with legs and waist, really good for power and accuracy.