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General >> Other Primitive Weapons >> What type of bow and draw is your favorite
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Message started by J on Dec 26th, 2021 at 11:06am

Title: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by J on Dec 26th, 2021 at 11:06am
I don't bother with composites, or laminated bows. I haven't used compound bows so no comment. I like my bow to be one-piece wood. No shelf.
I shoot western, 3 finger grip, 1 above 2 below, arrow on the left side, right handed

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by walter on Dec 26th, 2021 at 11:32am
My all time favorite was a 47 lb Fred Bear bow. It was glass over a maple core with a thin strip of aluminium in the ctr of the limb. It was also reflexed at the handle. Fast, smooth and accurate. 
I still have a 64 lb flat bow that I bought in the mid eighties. It is glass over yew. I don't  use it anymore because of injuries that prevent me from drawing that much weight.
Compound bows are great for home defence and shooting from a tree stand. Wish I didn't  sell mine.
Self bows are just plain fun! Fun to make and shoot. I like a shelf and use the three finger Mediterranean draw.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Hirtius on Dec 26th, 2021 at 11:40am
I want to get a self bow eventually, and hoping to move up in draw weight. I also donít want to deal with composites or laminated, but out of pragmatism Iím willing. The thing I wonít do is a bow shelf. Right now I have a very odd draw of augmented pinch off of the right side (right handed, like thumb draw.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by J on Dec 26th, 2021 at 11:49am
Sounds like some sort of tertiary draw Hirtius? I enjoy experimenting with all type of draws but I always go back to Mediterrean.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Hirtius on Dec 26th, 2021 at 11:51am
Pretty much. The naming schemes are all confusing. The draw has its pros and cons.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Morphy on Dec 26th, 2021 at 7:05pm
Longbow and Mediterranean draw

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by joe_meadmaker on Dec 26th, 2021 at 10:16pm

Morphy wrote on Dec 26th, 2021 at 7:05pm:
Longbow and Mediterranean draw

+1

I'm completely fine with a flat bow as well.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Sarosh on Dec 27th, 2021 at 5:08pm
I like all bows especially those that I can make.
Without a facemask with mediterranean draw my facial hair get in the way of the bowstring, I tried thumb draw with the arrow on the left side and it doesnt happen. I rarely if ever shoot a bow so I cant spot possible problems with my draw combo. I think modern mongolians use it.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by J on Dec 27th, 2021 at 5:37pm
Interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp4BHEUhu0

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by walter on Dec 27th, 2021 at 7:51pm
Serious hinge there😯

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Sarosh on Dec 28th, 2021 at 3:44am
it broke in too many parts
watching frame by frame seems like the lower limb broke first maybe the bow was too dry by the cold as the title says.
The hinge seems to bend uniformly with the bow

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Morphy on Dec 28th, 2021 at 3:19pm
Thats a beautiful break and appears to have broken exactly how it should have regardless of cold although Im sure the cold helped nudge it along.

Good find. Definitely worth saving that video.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Jabames on Mar 4th, 2022 at 5:29pm
In the past I've owned 55-60 pound bows but recently I tried out a 40 pound short reflex/deflex longbow and man I loved it.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Morphy on Mar 5th, 2022 at 10:42am
Just bought a table top belt/disc sander. Still in the market for a bandsaw. Since my elbow has been thoroughly wrecked and still(!!) hurts like an absolute ***** it appears my path forward has been chosen for me. Time to make some bows. Or...time to start. Im a busy man these days. Still, super excited and want to say thanks to you guys who have kept the coals glowing and nudged me back towards wanting to build again. No names, you know who you are lol.

EDIT: But just in case you dont, in no particular order WALTER, Joe, Mersa, NOOC, IG and last but certainly not least my man VetRyan. Thanks guys, seriously.  ;)

Oh and we need to do some poplar bow builds lest we forget. Ok, now im done.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 8th, 2022 at 3:43pm
I shot a lot of bows. But I really love a bow. It is a Hungarian horse bow. A laminate.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by StaffSlinger on Mar 8th, 2022 at 6:58pm
For a straight self-bow I prefer my 50" Mollegabet with 9" levers.

For recurve, I have a wood-glass composite Joseon-era Korean bow made on a James Parker designed form.

If I were rich I would own a 44" wood-horn-sinew Western Scythian replica bow by Jason Beever.

I shoot Mediterranian and thrumb ring; 27" draw, and because I'm an olde fart with decades of shoulder issues, I prefer 30-35# draw weights, so I can shoot a hundred arrows a day rather than 1 or 2 arrows a day with a 60-70# draw.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 9th, 2022 at 7:25am
Ist ein schwergewicht. 75lbs
Screenshot_20220309-131330_2.png (3218 KB | 17 )

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Sarosh on Mar 10th, 2022 at 12:09pm
@Jaegoor beautiful bow. does it have sinew backing or modern materials?  if I ever get the time I want to try make one like that but with hemp backing out of curiosity.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 10th, 2022 at 5:31pm
it is a historical replica. Deer tendons, various woods and cow horn.  ;) i love this bow. mighty padabum

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Morphy on Mar 13th, 2022 at 6:40pm
What style Jaegoor? Appears...Hungarian maybe??

How much was it? I imagine fairly expensive.  ;) Very nice!  8-) 8-)

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by StaffSlinger on Mar 14th, 2022 at 9:07am
Sarosh -- hemp backing on a wood-horn composite bow is essentially worthless.  It will not do what sinew does to make the bow function correctly.  The only natural non-sinew material which comes even remotely close to the function of sinew in an archer's bow is very long strands of flax, and that would not work for a bow of more than about 40# draw weight.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Morphy on Mar 14th, 2022 at 10:00am

StaffSlinger wrote on Mar 14th, 2022 at 9:07am:
Sarosh -- hemp backing on a wood-horn composite bow is essentially worthless.† It will not do what sinew does to make the bow function correctly.† The only natural non-sinew material which comes even remotely close to the function of sinew in an archer's bow is very long strands of flax, and that would not work for a bow of more than about 40# draw weight.


Hmm but would flax simulate sinew though? What are your thoughts on this StaffSlinger?

The only type of backing Ive used thats both natural and simulates the effects of sinew is a pre-stressed silk backing. Its a very good substitute in that it's natural, strong, elastic and unlike sinew, 100% waterproof. It also wont overpower the belly of a bow in compression.

Im working on a couple bows right now that wont have that but plan on making some with it if I can before everything falls apart in America. The end goal being a horn composite with silk backing.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Sarosh on Mar 15th, 2022 at 3:26am


StaffSlinger wrote on Mar 14th, 2022 at 9:07am:
hemp backing on a wood-horn composite bow is essentially worthless.


I didn't know the bow had horn on the belly I thought it was just sinew on the back. The characteristic I want to keep is the siyahs and the bow profile when strung.

I haven't thought of horn-hemp composite because if I bother to find horn I'll probably find some sinew too, but I'm not 100% sure it wouldn't work. flax and hemp fibers have similar stretch characteristics, 3% stretch before break, sinew 20% stretch.
the hemp bow wouldn't need to be C shaped unstrung, the limbs could be straight with siyahs on the ends. Because of the very little stretch on the back more compression would happen in the horn belly, maybe make it with trapezoid cross section. the hemp-wood-horn bow would probably perform worse than a sinew-wood-horn bow but it would probably be better than a hemp-wood bow.

From what I understand natural silk and nylon can stretch up to 20% so they have some similarities to sinew but they don't shrink when drying so they have to be pre-stressed like morphy did.

out of curiosity do we know how much sinew shrinks when drying?

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by StaffSlinger on Mar 15th, 2022 at 8:39am
What I know from 40 years or more of building bows and following traditional bow builders around the world is that flax, not hemp, not silk is the onlSilk is useful to prevent splinters from rising that's about it. 

You can build a Magyar style bow without horn or sinew easily enough.  I've done so.  Similar designs are known as the Saami, Siberian, or Finno-Urgic bows.   You want top quality bow-making woods.    You probably aren't going to get any 70# draw weight, but 40-50# is certainly do-able.  Start with a flat, straight-grain billet,  add siyahs to the ends -- glued and wrapped in place.  Add a riser to the center, again glued and wrapped.   Here are a couple all-wood 40# draw bows I built over the years.
ElmSteppeFull.jpg (28 KB | 16 )
AsianFullDraw.jpg (23 KB | 19 )

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Morphy on Mar 15th, 2022 at 9:15am
One difficulty people have when using silk is not using enough. People often will slap on a few thin sheets and think thats going to take up enough of the tension load when in reality it wont. My early silk backings suffered from this.

Making it a silk glue matrix approx. 25-35% of total limb thickness will provide a great deal of protection on par with sinew, and pre stressed you will get the reflex inducing properties. Pre stressed silk backings are something that should be used more in modern day "primitive/trad" bow building but for whatever reason its not that popular.

@Sarosh are you planning on making horn bows? We have a lot of longhorn cattle around here and Ive played with the idea of trying those. The issue is good horn can be so expensive to buy enough to get a lot of good practice.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Sarosh on Mar 15th, 2022 at 1:32pm

Morphy wrote on Mar 15th, 2022 at 9:15am:
are you planning on making horn bows?

I wish I had the time, for the next couple of years I'm pretty sure I won't have the time to make bows.
I have left a lot of projects unfinished, more than 3bows, 2 steel crossbows and others. To tell you the truth I'm more drawn to make ballistas and onagers now :P

In the pictures a siyah glued on an unknown wood it was a very dense shovel handle. It has been waiting more than 3 years for a backing. :(


StaffSlinger wrote on Mar 15th, 2022 at 8:39am:
following traditional bow builders around the world is that flax, not hemp

that's interesting observation. they sell hemp as flax/plumbers flax here so I might have never come into contact with linen flax.


StaffSlinger wrote on Mar 15th, 2022 at 8:39am:
Here are a couple all-wood 40# draw bows I built over the years.

Cool bows. the only bow I finished with siyahs was 22# all wood, beech and siyahs from some kind of bush, sold for 35eur to a friend, cool experience.
I prefer to glue the siyahs flat on the back of the bow. I wonder why they do V-splice traditionally. From the photos I guess you glue the siyahs on the back too?

siyah1.jpg (99 KB | 13 )
siyahDWf.jpg (85 KB | 16 )

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Morphy on Mar 15th, 2022 at 6:54pm
Nice man! I love it! Most tool handles around here are hickory or less so, Ash. Both are good bow woods though.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 16th, 2022 at 7:33pm
why are sayas glued in a v shape?  the contact area is larger. more power can be transmitted.  8-)

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by StaffSlinger on Mar 17th, 2022 at 5:15pm
You don't need a V splice.  I build them both ways.  I'm not sure why Central Asian and Easter European bows are glued with V notches.  The glue surfaces are not measurably greater than a flat-to-flat glue joint.

The Finno-Ugric, Saami, and Siberian Two-wood Bows are not V-notched; they use a flat glue up and often have a back strip which ramps up the outside of the siyahs, so the foot is sandwiched between the back and belly lathes..

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 19th, 2022 at 2:59am
it is of course also possible to glue flat. but those bows you mentioned are not that powerful in comparison.

Title: Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Post by Mersa on Mar 21st, 2022 at 7:32am
Hybrid longbow or recurve . High anchor, split finger
High wrist grip , shelf to centre
Shorter than 58Ē total length
50-55 #

Unless itís a primitive selfbow

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