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Message started by Morphy on Dec 12th, 2021 at 8:57am

Title: Short sling exercise
Post by Morphy on Dec 12th, 2021 at 8:57am
In my slinging journey I’ve gone from very short slings to longer and longer slings then back down to shorter slings. What I’ve found is that there seems to be a sweet spot for accuracy and snappy throws for me in the 22-25 inch range. 28 is ok for accuracy and power with larger stones but as the length goes up it eventually becomes slower in rotation and feels a bit unwieldly.

Because of this I like slings in the 22-25 inch range but I find that limits full speed shots to no more than say 4 oz or around 115 gram stones. This is full on, max speed throws without danger of injury.

This leaves me with one option, an exercise that strengthens the muscles involved with slinging. I find 5 oz / 140 g to be the minimum for good hunting power at ranges of 30ms which I would struggle to do with a short sling.

Do you all have specific exercises that you do to increase your throwing weights? Would you be interested in taking part in this, posting your exercise routine (specifically for slinging muscles) and your results?  Videos of course would also be welcome.

I have 10 days of vacation coming up in a few days  :D :D :D so I will post a base line of a 7 ounce stone throw with my current short sling set up then update every month as time permits (as well as another video challenge separate from this that should be quite difficult  ;))

Please feel free to take part if you feel this interests you.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Kordwar on Dec 12th, 2021 at 9:39am
I wonder if it would be possible to make an "indoor trainer", a captive weight that's the right size attached in the center to a sling that's the right length. Maybe out of kevlar string?

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Kick on Dec 12th, 2021 at 10:14am

Kordwar wrote on Dec 12th, 2021 at 9:39am:
I wonder if it would be possible to make an "indoor trainer", a captive weight that's the right size attached in the center to a sling that's the right length. Maybe out of kevlar string?

I guess in some ways Indian clubs would train in the same way as this so maybe that would be something to include.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by MikeG on Dec 12th, 2021 at 10:21am

Morphy wrote on Dec 12th, 2021 at 8:57am:
the muscles involved with slinging


the strenght in slinging is not generated with muscles, training them wouldnt make your shots much stronger

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by joe_meadmaker on Dec 12th, 2021 at 9:13pm

MikeG wrote on Dec 12th, 2021 at 10:21am:
the strenght in slinging is not generated with muscles, training them wouldnt make your shots much stronger

I disagree.  Technique is definitely extremely important.  But increased strength and flexibility will allow someone to move faster and put more energy into the sling and projectile.

Have you ever seen Luis sling?  He technique is obviously fantastic.  But the guy is also really strong, and can throw real bloody hard: https://youtu.be/lCZaDLQCPlY?t=65.

Strength will also be a bigger factor as the weight of the projectile increases.


@Morphy - I have a few exercise routines that I bounce between.  None of them are for slinging specifically.  Which isn't too much of a surprise.  I'll go out there and sling a really big stone.  But I'm far from the top of the leader board when it comes to projectile speed.  This year was big stones.  Next year I'm hoping to work on getting some higher projectile speeds.  Just need to get to the end of winter.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Morphy on Dec 12th, 2021 at 10:59pm
@Joe- I tend to think form is really important in both areas but training muscle mass is especially important in not being slowed down when trying to maintain near max acceleration while increasing stone weight.

Whereas increasing top acceleration with already smaller weights is perhaps where form is even more important.

This is where my opinion stands at the moment.

Any exercises you care to share?

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Morphy on Dec 12th, 2021 at 11:03pm

MikeG wrote on Dec 12th, 2021 at 10:21am:

Morphy wrote on Dec 12th, 2021 at 8:57am:
the muscles involved with slinging


the strenght in slinging is not generated with muscles, training them wouldnt make your shots much stronger


Anytime I make such generalizations on a subject I always try to bring it to a logical extreme and see if it still works. Could my 12 year old daughter sling as hard as me if she had the exact same form? There is simply no way. We have to be careful about such assumptions. We have gone too far in the wrong direction in our society. We have denigrated manliness and strength in some ways. Ancient slingers and archers were not at all of this mindset I feel sure.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by joe_meadmaker on Dec 12th, 2021 at 11:52pm

Morphy wrote on Dec 12th, 2021 at 10:59pm:
Any exercises you care to share?

Now that I think about it more, I've got a couple that are probably helpful for slinging.  Two of the workouts I use involve resistance training.

One is hard to describe in words.  I have a barbell that I keep pretty light.  With the weights on it, it's around 25-30 lb.  I basically hold it like a staff and go through a bunch of different movements.  Some movements are more staff-like, such as thrusting the bar forward.  And others are more typical barbell, such as curls and overhead tricep extensions (not sure if that's the correct term).  At the end of a workout (which is usually around 12 minutes, I think), the hands, forearms, and shoulders are pretty good and worn out.

I also have a total gym.  My lower back isn't so great.  Just something that runs in my family.  But working on a total gym is very helpful.  This is an exercise I usually double up on when I do a workout, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl_zhkHtEQY.  It's very good for core stabilization.  I imagine something similar could be achieved by connecting some resistance bands to a wall or other fixture, grabbing on and rotating the torso.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by hubert on Dec 13th, 2021 at 6:18am
You can orientate yourself on other throwing sports. Pitcher drills are to be emphasized. For quick strength, throw a medicine ball at 3 kg or more on a wall. It is also very important to train your back. Mobility training and balance training are also very useful.
here is a channel for more advanced users:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPx2nKfFk4p6IkQsMW9O0xQ

and here for more mobility:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLIgNjvvOXG3PM7p9hczXUg


Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Curious Aardvark on Dec 13th, 2021 at 7:40am
if you want specific gym exercises, target triceps.
Biceps have very little effect on hitting and throwing, it's pretty much all down to the triceps.

So rather than bicep curls, do tricep presses.

All stretching and bending exercises also work well for slinging.

And yes, while technique is the most important thing.

Without strength training joe would now be a broken elbowed cripple after all his heavy rock slinging.

So strength does matter as well. 

When I was at college I used an 8 lb 3.5 foot long 'staff' That I spun at arms length.
Also very good for concentration, as if that thing got away from you, something was going to get broken ! 

I still use it.
After the best part of 40 years it's hard as iron.
Hold it at one end and extend. Then use wrists to raise it vertically and then lower it as slowly as I can.
It's also useful if you hang it down your back and straighten your arm - again targeting the triceps.

I use 10kg dumbbells for a similiar exercise. These days with both hands. Was a time I'd have done it easily with just the one.

I'll dig the stick out later and see about maybe a couple videos.

A big stick is fairly easy to come by and pretty good for sling training. 

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by MikeG on Dec 13th, 2021 at 9:54am

Morphy wrote on Dec 12th, 2021 at 11:03pm:
denigrated manliness and strength in some ways


well, its not like i dont do a lot of strenght training. Its just not the most important thing in slinging. You might be able to throw further, but always throwing with full force will lead to injury. Strenght comes from effective movement, the muscles will develop while slinging. You dont need special exercises

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Jaegoor on Dec 13th, 2021 at 2:27pm
Es ist richtig was Mike sagt. Unsere Vorfahren haben körperlich vielleicht mehr gearbeitet. Bräuchten sie deshalb ein spezielles Training ? Nein. Viel Kraft kann sogar ein Hindernis sein beim slingen. Und ja Luis ist ein Athlet. Aber ich erinnere mich sehr gut das er über schmerzen im Ellenbogen und Schulter klagte. Seitdem hat sich sein Stil verändert. Er ist viel weicher in seinen Bewegungen . Und er wirft absolut bewegungsbetont. Natürlich kann ein körperliches Training nicht schaden.
Ein einfaches aber sehr effektives Training. Pelota a Mano. Man braucht nicht viel dazu. Slingen als Sport ist viel umfangreicher als der eigentliche Schuß mit der sling.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Curious Aardvark on Dec 13th, 2021 at 3:00pm
Needing something is quite different from doing something to improve an activity.

It's why swimmers also do gym work.

Just because something isn't strictly necessary, doesn't mean it won't help.

triceps, elbows, joint flexibility - all pay an impoirtant part in slinging.

And if you have somewhere you can put in a couple hours a day slinging, like jaegoor does, then yeah - you don't 'need' to do anything else.

jaegoor also does a fair bit of martial arts - which will help with the slinging. 
As will the training he does with other weapons.
It all helps towards making you a better slinger.   

We're not saying you have to do supplemantary exercise, just that it will help quite a lot if you can't sling every day.

And if you do supplementary exercise,  what exercises do you do or recommend.

This is NOT a thread asking if it's necessary, but one asking, what exercises will help and what do people do. 

So please, lets stick to that and NOT turn this into an argument about whether supplementary exercise is 'needed' or not.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by MikeG on Dec 13th, 2021 at 4:10pm

Curious Aardvark wrote on Dec 13th, 2021 at 3:00pm:
Needing something is quite different from doing something to improve an activity.

It's why swimmers also do gym work.

Just because something isn't strictly necessary, doesn't mean it won't help.

triceps, elbows, joint flexibility - all pay an impoirtant part in slinging.

And if you have somewhere you can put in a couple hours a day slinging, like jaegoor does, then yeah - you don't 'need' to do anything else.

jaegoor also does a fair bit of martial arts - which will help with the slinging. 
As will the training he does with other weapons.
It all helps towards making you a better slinger.   

We're not saying you have to do supplemantary exercise, just that it will help quite a lot if you can't sling every day.

And if you do supplementary exercise,  what exercises do you do or recommend.

This is NOT a thread asking if it's necessary, but one asking, what exercises will help and what do people do. 

So please, lets stick to that and NOT turn this into an argument about whether supplementary exercise is 'needed' or not.


Well, i have been doing martial arts for 8 years, knife throwing for 6 years and did some weight training too. When I starten slinging, i was training 5-6 times a week and the training was intense. For the first 4 months, i did slinging with a friend that didnt do any Sports. We had the same amount of power in our shots, but i was much stronger than him. By your logic,  that would be impossible. And lets not forget, that martial arts is a great example of technique beating strenght.

And why shouldnt we turn this into an argument ? To me, this sounds like something a child would say after loosing an argument. (Yes, im 14 and told you to stop acting like a child, now think about that)

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Jaegoor on Dec 13th, 2021 at 4:12pm
Das habe ich verstanden. Und ich spreche auch nicht dagegen. Sport und Bewegung sind immer hilfreich. Auch Koordination. Viele Kinder die sehr viel Computer oder Handy zocken, haben Koordination Probleme. Das bemerke ich in meinen Trainingsgruppen immer wieder fest.
Ich wiederhole es gerne noch einmal. Spielen sie pelota a Mano. Ihr slingen wird sich erheblich verbessern. Auch wenn sie die Sling  nur wenig trainieren. Sie brauchen einen Tennisball, eine Wand und einen glatten festen Boden. Ebenfalls sehr zu empfehlen ist Speer werfen. Sie können das Training mit einem Speer sehr vielseitig gestalten. Benutzen sie ein Atlatl. Oder ein amentum. Oder werfen sie einen Speer nur mit der Hand. Verwenden sie dafür aber einen bestimmten griff. Der Speer liegt auf der Handfläche und zwischen zeige und Mittelfinger. Probieren sie es aus.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Morphy on Dec 13th, 2021 at 4:39pm
Guys, lets not make this an argument. Absolutes are almost never helpful. Saying something is all something or never something is also almost never true.

If you feel that no exercise whatsoever can make you a stronger slinger and it's 100% form this is probably not the thread for you. I dont say that to be a jerk. I do appreciate your opinions but seeing as how it has already degraded into arguments lets move back to exercises that can help. Thanks.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by IronGoober on Dec 13th, 2021 at 4:43pm
Personally, throwing a disc (disc golf) backhand has helped me tremendously. To be effective at disc golf, you must engage the hips and shoulders in the correct sequence. It has helped me sling with more power and less effort. My slinging form never evolved until I started throwing a disc. As soon as I did my slinging form started rapidly improving.

They are kind of opposite in the direction of rotation, but somehow working with both movements has helped each improve. It's a sort of cross-training, I suppose.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Morphy on Dec 13th, 2021 at 6:50pm

Jaegoor wrote on Dec 13th, 2021 at 4:12pm:
Das habe ich verstanden. Und ich spreche auch nicht dagegen. Sport und Bewegung sind immer hilfreich. Auch Koordination. Viele Kinder die sehr viel Computer oder Handy zocken, haben Koordination Probleme. Das bemerke ich in meinen Trainingsgruppen immer wieder fest.
Ich wiederhole es gerne noch einmal. Spielen sie pelota a Mano. Ihr slingen wird sich erheblich verbessern. Auch wenn sie die Sling  nur wenig trainieren. Sie brauchen einen Tennisball, eine Wand und einen glatten festen Boden. Ebenfalls sehr zu empfehlen ist Speer werfen. Sie können das Training mit einem Speer sehr vielseitig gestalten. Benutzen sie ein Atlatl. Oder ein amentum. Oder werfen sie einen Speer nur mit der Hand. Verwenden sie dafür aber einen bestimmten griff. Der Speer liegt auf der Handfläche und zwischen zeige und Mittelfinger. Probieren sie es aus.



"Throwing a spear is also highly recommended. You can make training with a spear very versatile."

Jaegoor, Ive wanted to train spear throwing anyways. Will this also make me a stronger slinger? Will it build slinging specific muscles?


hubert wrote on Dec 13th, 2021 at 6:18am:
You can orientate yourself on other throwing sports. Pitcher drills are to be emphasized. For quick strength, throw a medicine ball at 3 kg or more on a wall. It is also very important to train your back. Mobility training and balance training are also very useful.
here is a channel for more advanced users:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPx2nKfFk4p6IkQsMW9O0xQ

and here for more mobility:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLIgNjvvOXG3PM7p9hczXUg


Perfect!! Thanks! I had not even thought of a medicine ball. We can also get really heavy training baseballs as well. That might be worth looking into.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by Jaegoor on Dec 13th, 2021 at 7:52pm
Morphy. Ja. Sie trainieren nicht nur Muskeln. Sie entwickeln auch ein Gefühl für Hebel. Das werfen mit einem amentum kommt einer sling am nächsten. Es gibt zwei Varianten. Ein festes amentum. Es bleibt am Schaft. Und ein loses amentum. Es wickelt sich bei einem Wurf ab und verbleibt in der Hand.

Title: Re: Short sling exercise
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Dec 13th, 2021 at 8:27pm

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Sep 17th, 2020 at 9:18am:
http://boxingscience.co.uk/science-behind-punch/

Relevant to slinging too :)


Originally posted in maths…
Stronger muscles = faster movements

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