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General >> General Slinging Discussion >> Catal Hüyük "Slinger" https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1636412026 Message started by Archaic Arms on Nov 8th, 2021 at 5:53pm |
Title: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Archaic Arms on Nov 8th, 2021 at 5:53pm
This is a famous image amongst us slingers as potentially being the oldest depiction of a slinger; ~7000BC
Does anyone have a picture of this as a part of the greater mural? I think it used to be on the website but it's no longer there. As far as I remember, it was the only sling depicted amongst lots of bowmen (some who where holding their bows near the end), and has drawn skepticism as a result. ![]() |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Hirtius on Nov 8th, 2021 at 6:24pm
Ask and ye shall receive. It can be seen in Mellaart 1967, Plate 46, Pg. 95. The book is called something like Catal-huyuk: A Neolithic Town in Anatolia
It can be found on an internet archive. Its on Pg. 92 of the online book. https://archive.org/details/Catal-huyuk.ANeolithicTownInAnatolia/page/n91/mode/1up?view=theater The other object the slinger is holding is suggested to be a club, though its impossible to tell. It looks like its being used against birds, which would check out. There is what looks to be a mirror image. Perhaps showing the sling is spinning? ![]() |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Jaegoor on Nov 8th, 2021 at 6:27pm
Ein tolles Bild. Ich liebe es
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Hirtius on Nov 8th, 2021 at 6:35pm
https://books.google.com/books?id=_lqHDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=catalhoyuk+slinger&source=bl&ots=Et9LpZDJzb&sig=ACfU3U0tX1agt8StXdR_U9ugCGvIXo6h6w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7voGn8on0AhVoDjQIHbetBMAQ6AF6BAgVEAI#v=onepage&q=catalhoyuk%20slinger&f=true
I found the original source here, starting at pg. 82. Theres some interesting additional info about head injuries and clay balls in Catal huyuk. Overall, I think the slinger interpretation is probably the best. It could be a bow held at the bottom with an arrow in the offhand, but it would also be quite strange. |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Jaegoor on Nov 8th, 2021 at 6:46pm
Es gibt einige Details, die perfekt für einen slinger sind. Die Haltung der der Arme. Die Stellung der Beine . Und der Haken Fuss vorn.
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Kick on Nov 9th, 2021 at 2:29am
Considering the additional evidence of slinging in the area, I can't not see it as a slinger. Why would anyone draw an archer like that? It's not impossible, but it just seems very unlikely it's not a slinger. Even if it's not, it's a very strong image. It really leaves an impression.
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Morphy on Nov 9th, 2021 at 6:31am
Also going with "Slinger". Looks like hes hunting two birds.
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Curious Aardvark on Nov 9th, 2021 at 7:16am
Oh it's definitely a slinger.
Jorn, one of the German slingers, has a style that can be perfectly superimposed over the catalhyuk image. It's uncanny. Jaegoor's style is very similar, but jorns is identical If you use an overhead helicopter style with the free arm pointing at the target and a side on stance. That's catalhyuk Unlike many of the Greek images of slingers, which would seem to be merely posed models, catal hyuk is most definitely taken from a real life slinger. The fact that it depicts a slinger in mid-throw, indicates it was taken from life. |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by funditor on Nov 9th, 2021 at 8:13am
Thank you for the link!
I would go with slinger as well, typical slinger in motion stature. If you download the book, there are several times slingers mentioned. Have not managed to find the according pictures though... |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by funditor on Nov 9th, 2021 at 8:15am
Perhaps its an early depiction or a forerunner (like Utnapeschtim for Noah Story) of the hercules and the stymphalian birds topos? Tendentially Heracles is a very archaic figure of a quite neolithic kind, often depicted with a club or sling and an animal skin...
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Jaegoor on Nov 9th, 2021 at 8:49am
there is a detail. what distinguishes this style. look at the front foot. he looks unusual. twisted. it often happens that the hips are turned over in the shot. Shots then go too far to the left. If you turn the front foot inwards, your hips can no longer overwind. it is stopped. their hits get better.
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 10th, 2021 at 3:48am funditor wrote on Nov 9th, 2021 at 8:15am:
The birds are huge compared to the slinger. It seems that the focus has been put on the feathers to draw the wings. Funditor, I agree with you. |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Morphy on Nov 10th, 2021 at 2:13pm
Ok so...let me throw a curveball here. The largest known flying bird is Pelagornis sandersi. It was similar to an albatross but much bigger. It was believed to be a bird that flew over the ocean like an albatross. The skeleton we have dates from approx. 25 million years ago putting it just a tad before this mural was drawn.
But we dont really know for sure when they went extinct. What we "do" know is a similar sized bird called Argentavis Magnificnes was around to at least 10,000 years ago. So if one very large bird could survive it would seem at least possible that another species could as well. See where im going here? Might this have been a large ocean going Pelagornis sandersi that flew of course like albatross have been known to do? Most likely not, but I like considering the idea that he/she was actually slinging at a giant bird. :D |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Hirtius on Nov 11th, 2021 at 10:55pm
Sounds like you want to mix together The Birds and Jurassic Park. Lets do it.
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Morphy on Nov 11th, 2021 at 11:06pm Hirtius wrote on Nov 11th, 2021 at 10:55pm:
Yea lol. Mostly tongue in cheek but at east for one species the timelines add up. It actually might have happened at some point. For me thats amazing to think about. |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 11th, 2021 at 11:41pm
Quite likely birds. But is there any chance they're ships (or boats)? I have no idea what watercraft would have looked like in this area and time period.
If you look at the one on the left, underneath the main (bird-like) object there could be oars moving through water. These could also just be the bird's legs. They reminded me of Viking ships and that's what brought the thought to mind. |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Hirtius on Nov 12th, 2021 at 12:28am
Sorry Morphy, but I havent found anything suggesting it lived until that recently. Ive only read things that say the specimens found are from around 6 million years ago.
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Sarosh on Nov 12th, 2021 at 2:37am
what's going on, those birds are cutting heads off!
Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stymphalian_birds any other, man-eating head-removing birds myth? |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 12th, 2021 at 2:44am TOMBELAINE wrote on Nov 10th, 2021 at 3:48am:
Sarosh wrote on Nov 12th, 2021 at 2:37am:
May be ? |
Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Sarosh on Nov 12th, 2021 at 3:13am
@TOMBELAINE Maybe but the stymphalian birds are smaller than those horse sized things
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Title: Re: Catal Hüyük "Slinger" Post by Morphy on Nov 12th, 2021 at 5:28am Hirtius wrote on Nov 12th, 2021 at 12:28am:
We can go with any large bird if you wish. Doesnt have to be a particular species. I assume even a normal albatross would qualify. On looking back more closely I would like to have a word with the Cornell lab of Orinthology which says it went extinct 10,000 years ago while other sources give much further back. I assume they conflated teratorns in general with Teratornis woodburnensis specifically. (Or any of the other more recent teratorns.) Good catch. |
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