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Message started by Morphy on Oct 28th, 2021 at 9:23pm

Title: Where would you go?
Post by Morphy on Oct 28th, 2021 at 9:23pm
We need a break. The forums been tense.

If you had no family and were given an option to live by yourself somewhere either primitive or a traditional lifestyle what type of life style would you choose and where would it be?

3 examples to explain what Im getting at:

Traditional with the Amish

With a Tribe in the Amazon

By yourself in the wilderness


Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Lightning Jack on Oct 28th, 2021 at 10:32pm
By myself in the wilderness

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Oct 28th, 2021 at 11:41pm
It's a tough call to make without actually being presenting with the situation.  But I know one I'd consider would be to go stay with the Shaolin monks.  I'm middle aged and not in good shape by any means, so there's no way I'm walking out there as some great martial artist.  But I think it would be fascinating.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Kick on Oct 29th, 2021 at 3:57am
I would go monks too actually. Not necessarily Shaolin though. I would prefer the quiet meditative type.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by perpetualstudent on Oct 29th, 2021 at 7:31am
I like the way you think Joe. I would have become disillusioned by the politics I'm sure (humans are human the whole world round) but a large part of me really would have liked an idealized warrior monk lifestyle. Train and study.

If wasn't a father, my second choice would be a mountain man. As a father an Amish like community would be my choice. I'd miss talking with you lot about everything under the sun but there's something to their way of life.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Curious Aardvark on Oct 29th, 2021 at 7:58am
Private, spider free tropical island.
Not in the hurricane or tornado zone
No problem with snakes, wild pigs or other edible critters.

Preferably after winning a huge amount of money on the lottery.

The problem with most 'primitive' lifestyles is that they are bloody hard work.
Nonstop 24 hours a day survival.
To me that's not something I'm looking for at this stage if my life.

Now I've nothing against going out and catching some fish for dinner, or the odd lobster or crab.
But the option to fly in a gourmet chef every now and then would be good as well.

Plus I'll want all mod cons.

Also jetting off to run a slinging event somewhere , once in a while would also be a good option.

The whole wilderness thing - not do much.

Maybe 20 years or so back when my body wasn't quite as damaged as it is now and my knees still worked properly.
I'd have considered it.

But honestly, now, let's keep the comforts of modern society in a comfortable setting and just remove most if the people, most of the time :-)

Likewise the shaolin experience.
When I was in my twenties, that would have been cool.
I've never been flexible, and that's pretty crucial to most Kung Fu styles.
So fun it would never be.

But I am stubborn and always had good stamina, so I'd have persevered.

But ideally, lots of money and somewhere that didn't take all your time simply to survive, I'd want to get some life out of it as well.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Morphy on Oct 29th, 2021 at 10:00am
If I had no responsibility I would get an RV and drive west. Find some place to park out in nature and disappear.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by vetryan15 on Oct 29th, 2021 at 11:44am
I live close by to Amish, they have changed within the last few years. The amish can now use generators and hook up machines to work, for example  washing machines. I see them getting soft

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Rat Man on Nov 1st, 2021 at 3:19pm
      I would go back in time 100,000 years and be a Hunter/Gatherer.  I've lived my whole life thinking that's what I was supposed to be. 

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 2nd, 2021 at 9:08am
Sorry if I break the mood but the Shaolin monks are not monks. They are employed by training centers. In China, the Communist party is everywhere. For foreigners, this is called soft power.
But the idea going to monks is excellent.
For me, going into a dark cave with cavemen : fire, music, songs ... Whaaou !

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 2nd, 2021 at 10:40pm
Correct, they do have centers where they train outsiders.  I'm not sure how that disqualifies them from being monks.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Hirtius on Nov 2nd, 2021 at 10:58pm
I’d go to Costa Rica, probably among the most beautiful places in the world. I’d probably choose the Pacific side.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 3rd, 2021 at 6:00am

joe_meadmaker wrote on Nov 2nd, 2021 at 10:40pm:
I'm not sure how that disqualifies them from being monks.


Since 1949, Mao has repressed the "old superstitions". Today, Chinese search engines also perform internet content filtering. In fact, they automatically erase what you type on your keyboard.
Under these conditions, can monks speak to foreigners ?

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 3rd, 2021 at 8:48am
Actually you could be right.  Today, right now, I don't know how difficult it would be.  Or even if it's possible.  I know at one point a person could.

I love this guy's videos on the Shaolin Temple.  He was there for several years and has made multiple videos on his experiences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZuKUPMpcwA


On whether or not they're monks, I can't speak intelligently on the subject.  Everything I've watched from people who were there refer to them as "monks".  Not my place to say either way.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Curious Aardvark on Nov 3rd, 2021 at 4:34pm
So you guys are okay without toilet paper, flush toilets, electricity, gas on tap, hot and cold running water - though to be fair the romans had those.
Modern medicine.

Primitive lives are just non-stop hard and dirty work.

What's wrong with a little luxury :-)

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Morphy on Nov 4th, 2021 at 7:41am

Curious Aardvark wrote on Nov 3rd, 2021 at 4:34pm:
So you guys are okay without toilet paper, flush toilets, electricity, gas on tap, hot and cold running water - though to be fair the romans had those.
Modern medicine.

Primitive lives are just non-stop hard and dirty work.

What's wrong with a little luxury :-)


Because modern society for all its luxuries has a high rate of stress and suicide whereas in modern hunter gatherer cultures suicide, depression and diseases like heart disease and others are almost unheard of.

We have long associated plenty and security with happiness but in terms of happiness and fulfillment we are, in general, missing something big imo..

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Caldou on Nov 4th, 2021 at 7:52am

Curious Aardvark wrote on Nov 3rd, 2021 at 4:34pm:
So you guys are okay without toilet paper, flush toilets, electricity, gas on tap, hot and cold running water - though to be fair the romans had those.
Modern medicine.

Primitive lives are just non-stop hard and dirty work.

What's wrong with a little luxury :-)

Hunter gatherers spend way more time "working" than modern human though.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by perpetualstudent on Nov 4th, 2021 at 9:44am
I am slowly reading through Seneca's letters. He has a wonderful letter ( 86 on Scipio's villa) where he bemoans the luxury of modern Romans and the ill effects of it. http://essays.quotidiana.org/seneca/scipios_villa/ I really enjoy it when Seneca bemoans the modern world. It makes me happy to see how humans are human across time and place.  I agree with Seneca though, too much luxury breeds weakness of body and character. You can find similar arguments the world round. The question then is where is "too much?"

It's also interesting that historians fight over how people lived. How hard was it? Nasty brutish and short? Less stress and work hours than now? I've seen PhDs argue both sides. Some of it is still the "noble savage" vs "progress of civilization"  worldviews if we're honest and the adherents make the facts fit their picture. 

Don't get me wrong, my computer is up, the lights are on, heat is on, had a long hot shower yesterday, enjoying music from thousands of miles away. I don't live a spartan life. Yet I feel the force of the argument that we have grown soft, pampered, and weak.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by IronGoober on Nov 6th, 2021 at 1:38pm

perpetualstudent wrote on Nov 4th, 2021 at 9:44am:
Yet I feel the force of the argument that we have grown soft, pampered, and weak.

I agree. But I also know that as soon as those luxuries were gone from my life, I would miss them something fierce and regret not having them, possibly to the point of depression.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 6th, 2021 at 7:38pm
Lots of talk on depression, stress, and pampered life.

I agree.  Living a life of (mostly) ease makes times of stress more damaging.  But it's not difficult to expose yourself to controlled stressful situations, which can make you more adaptable when unplanned situations occur.

Everyday I do breathing exercises which involve holding my breath after an exhale.  I do cold showers daily.  Which is really exciting now because in PA we're getting into cold temperatures, so the water in the shower is pretty darn cold.  And once a week I do an 18 - 20 hour fast.  I'm thinking about extending that, but not there yet.

If anyone is curious, you can look on YouTube for Wim Hof.  I can say this from personal experience, if you're in the shower and turn the hot water off completely, all concerns that might be in your mind go away.  At least for a bit.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by perpetualstudent on Nov 10th, 2021 at 1:07pm

joe_meadmaker wrote on Nov 6th, 2021 at 7:38pm:
it's not difficult to expose yourself to controlled stressful situations, which can make you more adaptable when unplanned situations occur.

I'm a big fan of that approach. I also think there's something to earning a luxury. Enjoying the fruits of your labor. Even without that though thankfulness instead of expectation helps.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Curious Aardvark on Nov 16th, 2021 at 10:36am

Morphy wrote on Nov 4th, 2021 at 7:41am:
Because modern society for all its luxuries has a high rate of stress and suicide whereas in modern hunter gatherer cultures suicide, depression and diseases like heart disease and others are almost unheard of.


well you could argue that most of our ancestors were dead long before they ever got around to worrying about mental illness.

In a society where any infection could kill you, life spans weren't that great.

Although they were probably longer than the peasants in early industrial soceity.

You've also got to factor in the fact that ALL primitive soceities we know of practiced slavery.
So that would reduce the slaves life even more while increasing the leisure of the slave takers.

There is a reason early man developed crop cultivation, animal husbandry and plumbing.
They knew all about primitive living and clearly wanted a lot less of it. 

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Morphy on Nov 19th, 2021 at 7:43am

Curious Aardvark wrote on Nov 16th, 2021 at 10:36am:

Morphy wrote on Nov 4th, 2021 at 7:41am:
Because modern society for all its luxuries has a high rate of stress and suicide whereas in modern hunter gatherer cultures suicide, depression and diseases like heart disease and others are almost unheard of.


There is a reason early man developed crop cultivation, animal husbandry and plumbing.
They knew all about primitive living and clearly wanted a lot less of it. 


So actually this is a very interesting point that leads to some really deep philosphical questions about how we as humans invent ourselves out of our own happiness.

As you pointed out a common understanding is that we moved away from those societies because those that came later found a better, more “happy” way or living.

I dont think it was a happier way of living I think it was simply a more effcient way of creating large cities with large population densities. Which creates more powerful socieites that can then overtake and co-opt the resources of those smaller hunter gatherer socieites. Actually things like dictatorships and feudalism to my knowledge are not really a big problem with hunter gatherer societies.

Their socities tend to have a more diffused power system rather than having an authortarian leader that makes all the decisions for everyone all the time.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Curious Aardvark on Nov 19th, 2021 at 8:23am
Yeah, it basically boils down to population density.
Humans breed like rats, and unlike rats, not much eats us so efficiency was born out of necessity.

And the more people you had, the easier it was to task differentiate.

A hunter could take his Beast to a specialist tanner or 'tailor' and trade some of the meat for getting the fur or leather properly dealt with, while he was left free to go hunt for more.

And when he worked out it made more sense to keep and breed his own beasts rather than hunt wild ones, he had time to make and learn to use a sling.

None of which is particularly relevant to this thread.
Except, why abandon several thousand years of technological progress ?

By all means find some where quiet to live, but do it sensibly. Use the technology to make life more enjoyable.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Sarosh on Nov 19th, 2021 at 9:21am
I like the temperate zone. With clear sunny days. With hills and mountains, caucasus might be a nice place to live I dont know about the weather there. and in a rural area where I can sling uninterrupted...


Curious Aardvark wrote on Nov 19th, 2021 at 8:23am:
Except, why abandon several thousand years of technological progress ?

if it comes with clutter it's not better it's just different.
with the technology we have we could all live like kings but some want to be more kings than others.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by J on Nov 19th, 2021 at 12:45pm
I am already barred from most places and soon even supermarkets. I don't go anywhere yet where I go I hear that it is all my fault.  Now they are starting to threathen me where I am. There's no place to go in this world for me except out of it, back to God. It seems this world wants me dead, but I will live.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Morphy on Nov 19th, 2021 at 2:23pm
Im not a luddite here. Im not advocating for actually being a hunter gatherer but I think the question of what we can learn from them is a valid one. Nothing wrong with taking the best from each culture right? Clearly in some things they are doing right.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by walter on Nov 22nd, 2021 at 8:28pm
I would combine gardening, pastoralism, hunting and gathering somewhere in a temperate climate with about twenty experienced clansmen  ;)

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Kick on Nov 23rd, 2021 at 4:08am

walter wrote on Nov 22nd, 2021 at 8:28pm:
with about twenty experienced clansmen

Yes! THe one thing everyone forgets when they talk about going and living out in the middle of nowhere. Humans have never lived in the middle of nowhere because they bring the where with them. Humans are social animals and usually die rather quickly without a group to support them. People point to the odd case here and there of someone surviving out in the wilderness alone but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Title: Re: Where would you go?
Post by Rat Man on Nov 29th, 2021 at 7:39am
   If I chose the traditional lifestyle option I'd move to Nova Scotia.  The place is beautiful, the climate agrees with me, and the people are very welcoming and friendly. 

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