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General >> Project Goliath - The History of The Sling >> Illuminations of the Middle Ages
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Message started by TOMBELAINE on Oct 28th, 2021 at 3:51am

Title: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by TOMBELAINE on Oct 28th, 2021 at 3:51am
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=enluminures%2Epdf
What arguments for or against ?
Not in the style : "probably... as usual..."

Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by funditor on Oct 28th, 2021 at 12:59pm
Nice Pictures!
Do you know of references for at least some, for timewise and spatial context?

Which arguments do you mean, for or against sling usage in the respective context?

I maybe remember one, bottom right, it is about a castle/city siege

Others seem to be depictions of the David story...

Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by joe_meadmaker on Oct 28th, 2021 at 11:22pm
I agree with funditor.† I think the top left, middle, and bottom left are depictions of David and Goliath.† The one at the bottom right does look like a siege.† The slinger has a kite shield, which usually appears in the 10th through the 12th centuries.† And the one at the top right position is the image that inspired me to try two handed slinging.† Which I know is at least plausible, because I did it.

Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by Hirtius on Oct 29th, 2021 at 5:41am
You didnít like me speaking in uncertainties? Sorry, but it would be wrong to confidently assert things I donít know. I only have my best guess.

I donít even know what the arguments you want, but from the past thread I would guess that you are trying to analyze the style in which the slings are held and used. You put these images in your claims of the ice pick grip with the Corsican sling, so I really hope thatís not what you want to discuss. None of them depict it anyways.

For these artworks, most the artists probably have never held a sling in their life. 2 of the photos (top right and center) have indistinguishable retention (doesnít need to be a loop, just held differently than the release to be retained) and release cords. 1 (bottom left) has an unintelligible grip, but it might be in a similar position as the previous ones.

The top left is interesting due to the wrist retention, which is relatively rare. Unfortunately we donít see how it is held.

The bottom right is the most complete, and itís a very weird picture. I have no knowledge of how that would actually work. It would be an interesting experiment. Itís held backwards, and I have no idea how it would effect the release. From holding it in that position, I think the sling pouch would be behind the stone, whereas conveniently I think the pouch is in front of the stone upon release. I speculate that instead of moving out of the way, the pouch would foul the shot. Furthermore, the release cord is held between the middle and ring finger. I donít know how this would work, but I do know that the ring finger is rather weak and neither of the fingers are as dexterous as the index finger and thumb. Of all slingers Iíve ever ever heard of across the world, no one holds the retention cord in those fingers. Itís always the index finger and thumb. Although I think itís worthy of experimentation, I think this grip is likely a mistake by the artist.

Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by TOMBELAINE on Oct 29th, 2021 at 7:59am
I gathered these illuminations because they represent unusual positions. To remind me of them. I don't note their references. Sorry.
The illuminations are often very precise and full of details. The questions I ask myself is : how much confidence can be placed in the sling ?

We can believe that the monks have never held a sling. But we can also believe that the monks have often seen a hunter or a farmer with a sling. These are not arguments but assumptions.

I tested the one of the middle (inverted hold), (you too Joe), and the one of the bottom left (without fingerloop).

With a style of throwing like the old Indian man, and an inverted hold, the fire lacks power. Maybe, it's just my bad technique.



Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 2nd, 2021 at 5:13am
I read somewhere there are about 200 illuminations of agricultural work with a sling.
My idea is :
"the monks were in contact with the peasants. So the slings was common to them."
So, I tend to believe these drawings. On the other end, our "expertise" consist in testing them to make up our minds.
It can be an open door for the sling during the Middle ages.
What do you think ?

Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by slingbadger on Nov 2nd, 2021 at 6:19am
People working the fields would use slings to scare off birds that were in the crops. There is an example of this in the Bayeaux tapestry.

Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by slingbadger on Nov 2nd, 2021 at 6:22am
Here
BaySling.jpg (8 KB | 13 )

Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 2nd, 2021 at 7:36am
The tapestry was embroidered by English monks just after the conquest. Details are visible : cracker and underarm shot.

Title: Re: Illuminations of the Middle Ages
Post by TOMBELAINE on Nov 3rd, 2021 at 6:53am
https://www.bayeuxmuseum.com/la-tapisserie-de-bayeux/decouvrir-la-tapisserie-de-bayeux/explorer-la-tapisserie-de-bayeux-en-ligne/

If you want see the Bayeux tapestry. Page 10. This is the website of Bayeux Museum. For English language, https://www.bayeuxmuseum.com/en/ .

Good reading  :)

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