I am on a journey to find the best sling design. The most efficient, accurate sling design using any materials, pouch shape, technique (braiding, weaving, whipping cords to a pouch etc.), number of cords 1, 2, 3, or 4. There are almost infinite combinations so the journey will be difficult but I am going to try. Any tips, advice, or any useful information any of you might have would be greatly appreciated. I believe have made one discovery on this journey so far and that is if you measure your wing span and divide it by two, that will give you your optimal sling length. And I already know about asymmetrical sling designs but I don’t think that is the best sling design. I even am going to test coconut husk fiber twine which is actually pretty cheap.

Well my 2 cents .....you definitely want a cinching finger loop, and for material dyneema and Kevlar are extremely efficient . Lightweight unbelievable  strength, very low stretch and the best material in my opinion

The journey is worth it, but remember that the sling does nothing without a slinger. A highly skilled slinger with a sub-optimal sling will beat the “perfect” sling in the hands of a novice. If you don’t put a lot of time in with the same sling because you’re always changing the design… you will remain a novice for much longer.

@LJ.
Greetings,
Please, enjoy your search for YOUR perfect sling design.

I suspect, in the end you will find the perfect design for  YOU  👍

In my early days of slinging, ( was it really 2 years ago) I made a series of slings but settled with the easiest, nastiest sling in my collection. The 7 th one I made .... A seat belt sling.
A short piece of seat belt and 2 lengths of paracord.
It takes everything from a tennis ball, golf ball, rough rock, perfect rock, juggling ball, apples, conkers and quite a few  er "odd" things ...listed in another thread.
It's getting close to wearing out but it will be replaced.
The reason I like it is its versatility.
I may change my mind .... The blue cotton Balearic is a joy but only for rocks.
So, .......so far seat belt number 7 is my perfect design.

Good luck in your search 

Cheers

Zud   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I don't think there is a best design. But there are different approaches and philosophies to slinging and sling construction , and as to what is the most effective. There are so many ways to make a sling and use it. It's good to think outside of the box

Where I draw the line in terms of sling design is the adding of wood / metallic ''triggers'' or ''solid retention sticks''. I don't have anything against it when others try it and its cool but I am not interested in it. For me personally this adds too much complexity. I want my slings to be build solely out of flexible materials.  Variable braids and levels of cord stiffness makes the sling complex enough for me. Even that puts me off sometimes and I want to go back to using the simplest sling I have and rely solely on my own skill and adaptation to such a sling. For example a simple thin leather pouch with two thin flexible cords tied to it. I feel I can make due with such a sling and at the end of the day they send the rock flying and very efficiently as well, because simple slings tend to be light, and aerodynamic. My advice: think simple in terms of design and practice a lot, and accomodate your style and grip that works most in harmony with the sling you are using.

Yeah different slings suit different purposes.

After 35 years and trying pretty much every sling there is and Inventing quite a few new  ones.
The best all-round pouch design is a riveted cap Paul.
Add paracords and a sliding finger loop and it's good for pretty much everything except wet stuff (leather does not like getting wet) and discs.
And I invented alternatives for those.

I have yet to try riveting polyurethane, but it's on my list :whistle:

A lot depends on what ammo you use.
I use whatever is around, so for me, versatility matters more than a sling like a Balearic split pouch that is only good for a narrow range of ammo.

I also like to keep my sling scrunched up in my back pocket. So that's a major factor as well.

Being able to change cords easily. Either for different lengths or when I wear a release cord out, is also important to me.

So in my case it's more specifically about the pouch than the overall sling.
Cord pairs I can change, quickly and easily for different purposes.
A good pouch should last a lifetime or until you lose it :-(
And that's what my cap Paul design slings do.

I dont think the half your wingspan is specific enough personally. It doesnt take into account ammo weight which I think plays a factor in determining ideal sling length.

I think LJ if I had to give you one piece of advice it would be before you do *anything* it would be wise to define everything really well/specifically.

What is the "best"? Best in accuracy? If so best with stones? Best with accuracy while being good for hunting? Best in accuracy with the highest efficiency or speed potential? Best in accuracy when using slightly inconsistent stones? See I dont think all these things are necessarily the same.

For example Ive had great success with sleek paracord apaches and perfect stone/concrete ammunition. But then for larger diameter ammo like baseballs, tennis balls etc I prefer balearic slings.

So anyways...yea thats the first part and the second part is whatever you come up with should be easily explainable (showing you understand it well) and easily reproducible by others (showing its not just personal bias/preference)

And that is that! Good luck and I look forward to what you find! Also dont be afraid to consult ancient Turkish texts. I hear they have all the secrets.

@nooneofconsequence I have spent many hours and thousands and thousands of throws working on accuracy, I’m fairly accurate.

@zud I may only find the best sling for me but I think that it will be able to be modified to fit other people as well but if this isn’t the case, then perhaps that in finding my perfect sling the things I learn could help others in finding theirs.

@Morphy the best sling design is one that has the most power, the best accuracy, the longest range, is the most efficient, and basically the best in every way possible.

It will take a long time. Maybe even years (because I am pretty busy). It is something I have wanted to do for a couple years now. I’m not new to slinging at all I’ve made 60+ slings, two staff slings, and three boomerangs. I had been going on the forum for about a year then I decided to join this year. I also may make a YouTube channel sometime in the not to far future.

After 70+ years on this planet, and expertise in a variety of disciplines, I believe I can unequivocally state that there is no "perfect" anything.  No perfect sling, firearm, musical instrument design, archer's bow or arrows, aircraft, recipe, partner, place to live.  None.  Nada.  Nil.  Zip. 

There is only What Works Best For You.  A handful of other may agree with you.  Other may not.  They don't matter.  You do.  Find what works best for you andbe happy with your finding.

StaffSlinger wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 9:49am:

After 70+ years on this planet, and expertise in a variety of disciplines, I believe I can unequivocally state that there is no "perfect" anything.  No perfect sling, firearm, musical instrument design, archer's bow or arrows, aircraft, recipe, partner, place to live.  None.  Nada.  Nil.  Zip.  There is only What Works Best For You.  A handful of other may agree with you.  Other may not.  They don't matter.  You do.  Find what works best for you andbe happy with your finding.

Cant say anything against that

While Im skeptical there is one best sling for all objectives I wish you luck LJ. I think we all want to find that and frankly any of us would be thrilled if you found out one design that is best.

@staffslinger you are correct there is no such thing as a perfect anything. That is why it will not be the perfect sling, it will be the best sling that is possible to make. As I said above it may only be the best for me, but hopefully it will be able to be changed by others to fit them, such as the length or the weight of the sling etc. I still will learn a lot and it will be fun. Also for the tests I will be using stones not manufactured ammo.

@LJ

Learning

And


Fun.


Important in life, paramount in slinging.

Go to it, learn, play, smile and share .
Cheers

Zud      [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I think most of us search for the 'best' design when we get into slinging, and for me, it is the Cortaillod design (introduced to me via Jaegoor). It's a superb design, and I love it for loads of reasons.
Keep in mind that what constitutes 'best' is a series of qualities that you value most, and that will vary from person to person.  (as has already been stated)

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 8:20am:

I use whatever is around, so for me, versatility matters more than a sling like a Balearic split pouch that is only good for a narrow range of ammo.

I don't know what your 'Balearics' look like, but I'd say they are the one of the most versatile pouch designs...
You can throw anything from a small 30g glande to a 1500g boulder using the same sling!

My new personal sling philosophy is that the slinger is what matters. A slinger should train with all kinds of sling he can think of or utilize from this direct environment. Cotton strap slings, leather belt slings, heavy slings, long slings, short slings, captive slings, stiff slings, floppy slings, braided, twisted, small pouch, large pouch, light, heavy, medium stones of all sizes and shapes, staff slings, direct throwing styles, rotor styles, at any release angle, with wide grip, tight grip, wrist loop, finger loop, no loop, smooth release cord, knot release, big knot release, tab release, loop release. All of this gives the greatest adaptability. I think adaptability to slings is key. A good slinger can get around with even a belt as a sling because he will know how best utilize it. For example when I use my canvas belt as a sling I know it needs ~400g rocks to shine and a direct-no rotor throwing action.
This adaptability allows the slinger get a sling from materials the environment dictates and use it in a manner which the environment allows. As long as it is flexible enough it can be made into a sling and I feel like I can adapt to any sling setup now with an ~hour of training and get proficient enough with it. With ammo, aim for natural stones of various shapes and sizes as this is the most available. And train at all distances...

You could stamp in a certain specific slinging ritual with a certain specific sling or only a certain weight of stone and get really good with that specific sling but
what if you lose it...or what if there are no such specific stones you seek, or the environment prohibits the use of your slinging style that you have solely practiced?

We can place a static target where our sling projectile goes and hit it consistently, and think we are a good slinger, but fool ourselves.
I think what determines a good slinger now is the ability to adapt.
When you train with such varying slings and styles you just notice you get the ability to swap between slings very quickly.
And the training I do with one type does overflows to the other. Because good form is key to all styles.

StaffSlinger wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 9:49am:

After 70+ years on this planet, and expertise in a variety of disciplines, I believe I can unequivocally state that there is no "perfect" anything.  No perfect sling, firearm, musical instrument design, archer's bow or arrows, aircraft, recipe, partner, place to live.  None.  Nada.  Nil.  Zip.  There is only What Works Best For You.  A handful of other may agree with you.  Other may not.  They don't matter.  You do.  Find what works best for you andbe happy with your finding.

Agreed.

Is the best sling for long range 50g lead glande throwing also the best sling for 200g target slinging in a confined area such as a forest?

I believe you can only achieve the 'best' sling for you, your technique, the ammo you prefer and the type of slinging you tend to do. However, if you like to mix up the above you may find the best overall sling will be outshone by more specialty slings in various areas. So in reality the 'best' sling is just best on average over the things you like to do, or a generalist.

Nevertheless it is valuable to try, you may learn a lot.

I'd beg to differ, based on much observation of Balearic slings in operation in the Balearic Islands.
Half the slingers struggle to throw the right size and shape rock without the damn things coming out sideways or backwards.

Simply by having a great big hole in the middle, a split pouch will always be more limited than a solid pouch.

If it works for you, great :-)
But believe me, they are a long long way from being the perfect sling design.
Watching Balearic slingers proves that in spades.

They are specifically designed for big rocks at short ranges, and then only because it's a fairly easy and quick design to make with very basic materials that grow wild on the islands.

Pretty impressive watching someone pick s handful of grass and have s completed sling a couple hours later.
But they are very much horses for courses.

I've gotta agree with J above -- the sling isn't as important as the slinger and his/her ability to use what's available in terms of both the sling itself and the ammunition. 

Same thing in archery -- it's not the bow that shoots good or the arrow that flies straight -- it's what the archer does with the equipment at hand.

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 27^th, 2021 at 7:45am:

I'd beg to differ, based on much observation of Balearic slings in operation in the Balearic Islands. Half the slingers struggle to throw the right size and shape rock without the damn things coming out sideways or backwards. Simply by having a great big hole in the middle, a split pouch will always be more limited than a solid pouch. If it works for you, great :-) But believe me, they are a long long way from being the perfect sling design. Watching Balearic slingers proves that in spades. They are specifically designed for big rocks at short ranges, and then only because it's a fairly easy and quick design to make with very basic materials that grow wild on the islands. Pretty impressive watching someone pick s handful of grass and have s completed sling a couple hours later. But they are very much horses for courses.

The point of a split pouch is to be able to adjust the size of the pouch to the size of the projectile, and because the flat braids sit underneath the projectile, it's not physically possible for the projectile fall through, unless you are trying to lob greasy, mirror-polished tungsten spheres.
I don't see Luis or Jaegoor having any issues with 'Balearic' slings, and I haven't encountered any myself, so you are incorrectly assigning the problem to the design instead of the user. I have seen the same issue myself when teaching my brother how to sling, where the stone flies out of the pouch unintentionally, but I never have any issues at all when using the same sling. It is due to the sling being rotated incorrectly, not the sling itself. Give the same balearic slingers who where having stone retention problems a cortaillod sling, and they probably wouldn't be able to use it at all, my brother certainly can't, even though the cortaillod is what I would consider 'peak' sling technology, and works terrifically in the right hands.

Whilst I agree that the slinger is the most important part of the equation I disagree with some of the narrative here.

The sling does play a role , and some are better than others in certain ways. Sure some are more for targets , some for distance, some for ammo adaptability ect ect.

Instead of searching for the best sling it might be easier to eliminate slings you don’t like.

Like I said for me personally if the finger loop doesn’t cinch then the sling is already worse that an identical sling with a cinching fingerloop.

Also for me I like a lighter sling because I hate having any “recoil”  after the shot.

I also disagree that changing slings will make you more proficient, I don’t think it’s a bad idea but nor is practicing with one sling. I practically used 1 sling my whole slinging career, I can sling other slings as well and don’t think I’m at any disadvantage with my “adaptability” to sling or scenario.

All in all
Practice
Have fun
Experiment
Take criticism
Explore
Practice some more
And some more
And by that time you should start seeing what you like the most

Whenever I am in a place with stones I am glad to have any kind of sling with me. There were times I had to resort to using my canvas belt (rip.) but anyway that's hours of fun right there

My thoughts on this have basically been covered by others, but I'll put it out there anyway.  I don't think the term "best" gives us any information without knowing what specifically is being talked about.  As others have inquired, the best at what?

In one of the posts, the following characteristics were listed:


wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 9:36am:

the best sling design is one that has the most power, the best accuracy, the longest range, is the most efficient, and basically the best in every way possible.

These hit on functionality.  But will the sling need to be the best in other categories?  Such as having the tightest and cleanest braid (assuming a braided sling)?  Will it need to be the prettiest sling if hanging in a display case next to others?


Going back to functionality because that's the most important part, I don't know if a sling could simultaneously be the best at all the characteristics listed above.  Just as an example (and this is for me personally), the sling I would choose for max accuracy and the one I would choose for max distance would not be the same thing.  To have a sling that can do all aspects well would be a great sling, but it may fall into the 'jack of all trades, master of none' category.

But as others have said, I look forward to hearing about the results of your searching and experiments.  If you do find the best sling, I can't wait to see it.  :)

   Here's my two cents.  There are many excellent designs and materials to chose from.  It comes down to personal preference.  The sling I'm most comfortable with is a modified pj with an elongated pouch.  Jute is my material of choice.  It certainly won't last as long as a sling made from synthetic fibers but I like the feel of it.  Honorable mention goes to the TS3 and Rockman. 

As I see it, the perfect sling is whichever one I'm in the mood to play with at the time.  I've made and have a pretty wide variety of designs made of a variety of materials. 

Each one has its advantages and foibles.  I seem to get the best accuracy at +- 50 feet with a peaceful jeffrey, but I don't like the lumpy feel of the pouch on release.  I like the feel of a tapered andean sling best, but I'm not as accurate with it.

These days I keep a cotton string andean sling in my back pocket all the time.  Why?  It's cheap, does its job, and is really comfortable to sit on. :D

That being said, if you come up with a design and material combo that works best for you and is downright amazing, please share it with us.  We're always eager to learn from each other's triumphs.

I like a versatile sling design that can work with a wide variety of rocks up to 500 grams in weight.
That requirement doesn't require an extraordinary special design.
Leather seems to be able to handle the most abuse.
A higher rock weight can make up for many imperfections. Little fast flying stones however have to have a good
round shape if they want to be anything for me other than useless

Well here is an experimental design that I came up with. The loop side is thin synthetic twine that is braided and the release side is micro cord. The pouch is very flexible and thin (but still very durable) deer leather. It is 27” long. I was going to make it 30” but I screwed up some how when measuring the twine for the loop cord ::)

---

And yes I know the colors don’t match, but this sling works very well for the first design.

   I like it LJ.  With all the experimenting I've done I never tried a sling like that. 
   I also agree with J's statement above.  One should learn to use all kinds of slings, projectiles, and styles. 

Ich slinge nun schon wirklich lange. Und immer wieder kommt die Frage nach dem besten Design. Dem besten Stil. Steine bis 500 g.  ;D warum? Kann man machen. Für Anfänger ein No Go. Welches Material. Usw. Sie wollen gut werden? Wählen sie ein Design. Einen Stil. Trainieren sie Konsequent. Ganz einfach.

Yep practice is key!!

@Jaegoor: yes I do want to get good and I have been practicing  my accuracy for about a year and a half. I have gotten fairly good. But, this is not the reason I want to find the best sling design. I like to make and engineer things and there has to be a sling design that is better than any others previously made. I want to keep experimenting until I find a very good design.

The sling looks good, but a pretty standard design.  Is there a particular part of it that you're focusing your attention on first?

I'm also curious if there are specific tests you're planning to use to compare one sling to another.

Jaegoor wrote on Oct 13^th, 2021 at 6:03pm:

Ich slinge nun schon wirklich lange. Und immer wieder kommt die Frage nach dem besten Design. Dem besten Stil. Steine bis 500 g.  ;D warum? Kann man machen. Für Anfänger ein No Go. Welches Material. Usw. Sie wollen gut werden? Wählen sie ein Design. Einen Stil. Trainieren sie Konsequent. Ganz einfach.

wahre und weise Worte

I guess my plan right now is to make different groups of slings one group at a time, and each group will have a specific trait to it such as efficiency, power, distance, etc, and keep fine tuning the best design in each until I get it the best it can possibly be then once I have the best sling for each trait, I will attempt to combine them all. I don’t know if it is possible to have a sling that is best in accuracy or not but I’ll try to make one but I’ll save it for last. The first trait I’m starting with is efficiency. And the first slings from each group will be closer to “standard design” and get further away if the trait improves.

        As far as testing goes, I throw a few dozen rocks of randomish sizes. For distance it would be how far it goes (obviously), for power how much damage it does, for efficiency how fast and clean of a release it is without losing much power or speed. If I can think of anything else I will add it to this list.
For accuracy I will have to use prolly at least 100 rocks for each test that is why I’m saving it for last, and the fact that it probably will be more random designs. I could make some videos too :)

I made a similar one as you. With a very stiff 6 mm polyester retention cord + wrist loop, and a very light and and very flexible 2 mm polyester release cord with small release tab.
It's really great ! it combines the best of both flexible and stiff slings.  The pouch orientation control of a stiff
sling with the swift quick and efficient release of a very light and flexible release cord. Previously it was always one or the other for me. I knew of this design principle for a long time but never experimented with it.  This is definitely how I will make my conventional slings from now on. Keep the stiffness and thickness in the retention cord, and the lightness and flexibility in the release cord.  I haven't felt any other sling design with performance that is this close to a Y-sling. As the english would say, bloody fantastic ! Highly recommend other slingers here to try this out. I won't be going back to symmetric conventional slings that have either a stiff release and retention cord, or floppy retention and release cord after this.  All the ''stiffening'' of a sling should remain in the retention cord from now on!  Thanks LJ. I think I am going to be popping out some cool slings following this design principle.

@J: You’re welcome. I hope my final sling design will be even better  :)

This first design I came up with though is the only sling that I’ve ever made that when I use it it I release early. Using it must be a lot closer to throwing because I don’t even feel any resistance at all. I bet someone who has never been slinging would be able to get accurate a lot faster than they used a standard design.

This design perfected would be as following I think. The sling being of modular construction. First, the retention cord made of a stiff/tightly braided cord that resists twisting and tangling, followed by a pouch tapered downwards from the stiffness of the retention cord towards the flexibility of the release cord. So a ''tapered'' pouch that tapers down in terms of stiffness. This would perfect it.  In contrast to a Balearic sling, where the taper ends at the end of the release cord (and a very large ''belly'' of the release cord becomes defacto part of the pouch, increasing delay, friction, etc...) the taper here instead would end at the end of the pouch where it meets the release cord, and the release cord itself will not continue tapering, but instead be uniform in size, thin and flexible.  (in contrast to a Balearic sling, where the release cord is wide and thick and only becomes gradually thinner towards the ''top''.)

The pouch and retention cord will last really long and can be integral or modular. The thin
release cords should be modular I think so they can be easily replaced when worn out, since this part
is exposed to the greatest wear and tear.


I am not a fan of the term ''early release''. A sling either releases the projectile ''on time'' or it releases ''late''.  Slings with thick and stiff release cords and/or ''fat bellies'' will release very late compared to one with a very thin release cord.
An ''early release'' would be  a fitting term for a release of the stone before one lets go of the trigger. That'd be an accident and unwanted.  ;)

So yes to what you said, the ''on time'' release is excellent, and it does make it feel more intuitive and also easier to learn for beginners.

@J: Yeah I didn’t really want to use “early release” I just couldn’t  really think of anything to describe it, maybe “faster release” would make more sense.