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General >> Slinging as a Sport, Competition Rules, Slinging Awards And Events >> Pumpkin challenge 2021
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Message started by NooneOfConsequence on Sep 15th, 2021 at 1:05am

Title: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Sep 15th, 2021 at 1:05am
Itís that time of year, and pumpkins are starting to appear at storesÖ I think itís time to start tracking their destruction as well. To kick things off, Iíll throw in a prize. Iron Goober gave me a deer hide last year. Iíll make a sling from that and mail it to whoever gets the most votes.
881F1408-9D56-4D45-83B6-97C8630DDA85.jpeg (105 KB | 28 )

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Sep 15th, 2021 at 9:40am
So keen just waiting on pumpkin and Iíll be in for sure !!!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Sep 15th, 2021 at 3:40pm
We have them now so expect my entry... at some point.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Sep 20th, 2021 at 1:29pm
Quick off the mark me. The chill is setting in over here so I knew I had to move fast. Got the video shot and edited today and I have to say, this is the best video I've ever made. Enjoy! :D

https://youtu.be/GkYb_MGCVBM

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by TOMBELAINE on Sep 20th, 2021 at 1:58pm
Kick,  :D
I don't know that this challenge is very dangerous.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Sep 20th, 2021 at 2:34pm

TOMBELAINE wrote on Sep 20th, 2021 at 1:58pm:
Kick,† :D
I don't know that this challenge is very dangerous.

It is! Pumpkins, especially wild ones in Finland can be vicious! It's because of the harsh winters :D

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 20th, 2021 at 2:48pm
Lol!† Brilliant man, I love it!† :D

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Sep 20th, 2021 at 6:13pm
Great stuff kick, what a way to ďkickĒ it off!!!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by vetryan15 on Sep 21st, 2021 at 6:39am
Kick, u WIN automatically that video was great 

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Sep 24th, 2021 at 12:00pm
Love it !

But now that you've killed hey baby, the BIG pumpkin will be coming for you.
Keep your staffsling to hand.
Mama pumpkin is big, cunning and utterly relentless !

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Sep 24th, 2021 at 12:07pm

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 24th, 2021 at 12:00pm:
Love it !

But now that you've killed hey baby, the BIG pumpkin will be coming for you.
Keep your staffsling to hand.
Mama pumpkin is big, cunning and utterly relentless !

I have an idea for next year so let's see...

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by TOMBELAINE on Sep 25th, 2021 at 12:20pm

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 24th, 2021 at 12:00pm:
Mama pumpkin is big, cunning and utterly relentless !


"The mummy returns" !

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Sep 26th, 2021 at 1:31pm
I might have just gone and made a Part 2...

Nothing like the first video, back to my usual boring style, but with two cameras now! Also a staff sling. Staff slings are cool.

https://youtu.be/F0NnGEwtoyA

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Sep 27th, 2021 at 1:07am
God kick give us a chance!!!

No honestly great work, hat trick was awesome, pure destruction

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 27th, 2021 at 1:54am
Time 2:34: I think Mr Pumpkin is done.
Time 2:45: Letís see if I can really smash it open.

Now thatís a slinger!

Loves it buddy!† :D

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Sep 27th, 2021 at 7:34am
Nice one !
Those are proper armour plated pumpkins and no mistake :thumb:

As far as the hat trick goes, I'd just assumed you hadn't missed it at all lol

Was really impressed :-)

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Sep 27th, 2021 at 8:45am
Thank you all! I want to see more entries though. Get out there guys!


Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 27th, 2021 at 7:34am:
As far as the hat trick goes, I'd just assumed you hadn't missed it at all lol

Oooh boy... I only included the hits because I didn't want to completely bore everyone to death. I was out there for over 2 hours (around that anyway) and with filming on the camera and on my phone I had 69 videos (lol) to edit together. Came out as 5 minutes of video including added cards so that tells you how out of practice I am with a staff sling... It took a long time to hit it and I almost gave up a few times. The magic of editing!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Sep 27th, 2021 at 9:32am
and there's me thinking: 'damn he's good with that staff sling, wonder how far away he can hit stuff.'

But those three together did some real damage. Loved the one that went in and then knocked the back end apart.

I'd just assumed you only had the one rock and were resetting for each throw lol
:thumb:

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Sep 27th, 2021 at 2:04pm

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 27th, 2021 at 9:32am:
and there's me thinking: 'damn he's good with that staff sling, wonder how far away he can hit stuff.'

But those three together did some real damage. Loved the one that went in and then knocked the back end apart.

I'd just assumed you only had the one rock and were resetting for each throw lol
:thumb:

I took six out with me this time which is about the limit I can carry comfortably in the bag and still sling. Lightest one is 231g the heaviest 386g so they really pack a punch when they hit. I wasn't even throwing full speed and power because I don't want to injure myself before the competition (and I'm super out of practice so was taking it slow). Staff slings are so fun. I still want to make a Hoopak style one.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Sep 28th, 2021 at 12:18pm
Hoopaks are great, much easier to make and control.

And great to improvise as most paracord slings can be fitted to one fairly easily.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by CrazyBrave333 on Sep 29th, 2021 at 12:25am
Loved the first installment- the drama and suspense were awesome.. loved the fight scenes!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 30th, 2021 at 10:20am
I did my pumpkin shopping this morning and I'm all set.† I'll see how fast I can pull off what I'm hoping to do.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Sep 30th, 2021 at 3:37pm
Canít wait to see what you got planned

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Sep 30th, 2021 at 6:34pm
Looking forward to it, Joe,

My pumpkin is the offspring of the small pumpkin from last year's video. I chucked it in the compost pile and I had about 10 pumpkins grow from the seeds. 

I tried this morning\ to make my video, but didn't get what I wanted. I'll try again next week.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Oct 1st, 2021 at 4:53am
I'm really looking forward to other people's entries.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Oct 4th, 2021 at 12:34pm
it's probably just me - but I I don;t feel right smashing up something you can eat lol

For halloween I always remove the flesh from the pumpkin and either make pumpkin pie or pumpkin soup - both are really good.

I might have a go after halloween with the door pumpkin.
But even then, he's been protecting the house from witches all night, just seems mean to smash him up with rocks.

I'm weird, I know.
You think that's bad.
Whenever i leave the workshop at night and leave the 3d printers running after turning the lights off - I always feel guilty that I've left them in the dark.
THEY DO NOT HAVE EYES.
No light sensing organs of any kind - they're basically 'tommy'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FjPt1fZsSs

But I always feel guilty. 

So we'll see :-)

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Oct 4th, 2021 at 11:27pm
Then print a pumpkin and smash that.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Oct 5th, 2021 at 7:35am
Now there's a thought !
Hmm...

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Oct 7th, 2021 at 7:08am
I want to see that!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Oct 8th, 2021 at 12:32am
Man I just ruined my pumpkin.
Had it setup and wind blew it off the stand and it broke.
Back to the drawing board .......and the shop

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Oct 8th, 2021 at 6:42am
So a few hours later, a new pumpkin and we have my 2021 entry.


Not ideal, I wanted the pass through on a fresh pumpkin and at distance but after killing 2 pumpkins in a day I thought well thatís enough. Got a solid hit at distance and after 2 hits Iím safe to say that pumpkin was dead.

Remember when slinging pumpkins always double tap


https://youtu.be/W6oet5UKnbQ

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Oct 8th, 2021 at 8:31am
Love that slomo through shot :thumb:

Proper destruction :-)

So leading on from IG's suggestion.
I've rolled out the old abs.
.abs is a horrible plastic for 3d printing.
It's designed to shrink after extrusion - perfect for injection moulding - and practically useless for printing.

So as I did not know better when I started 3d printing, I bought a lot of it.
I soon learned that just about everything else was better, and the abs -which also stinks of burning plastic while printing - has been sitting on a shelf for the last 8 years or so.
Perfect for things destined for destruction.

If I run it overnight the smell does not matter :-)

Apparently I need 3, a big one a medium one and a small one.
I did point out I had to hit them with a slung missile, but apparently I still need three lol

The medium one is now painted and the big one ran overnight and is now drying after painting.

Still got the small one to make and some other secret stuff :whistle:

You can see why abs is so bad for 3dprinting, because it shrinks as it cools, unless you print it in a heated enclosure, it warps and cracks like a total bastard !
But for this purpose, that does not matter :-)

Other than the cracks, those are damn good pumpkins :-)

But they will have to die !

Abs is fully recyclable, so no environments were harmed during the making of these pumpkins.

I've even tried to give the abs filament away over the years, to no avail. So to finally gave a use for it is fantastic :-)


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Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Oct 8th, 2021 at 8:44am
Awesome man!  That distance hit was great!

I'm curious.  Do have more than one of those steel glandes, or do you have to chase that down every time?

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Oct 8th, 2021 at 8:50am
Look how skinny he is - he's definitely  chasing it !
:-)

The crates were a great idea as well.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Oct 8th, 2021 at 8:51am
I have to chase it every time, was going a good 50m on a miss. So I probably ran 2-3km over the session.

Itís made out of 2 plumb bobs. Theyíre the same weight and diameter and screwed together with a spindle in the middle, then wrapped in tape in the middle to fill te small gap. Theyíre teardrop shape with the thread in the ball end of teardrop if you get what Iím trying to say

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Oct 8th, 2021 at 8:59am
Slinging = cardio† ;D

That pumpkin looks great CA!† Can't wait to see what a impact does to it!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Oct 8th, 2021 at 9:37am
I love slomo pumpkin destruction. Those are great pumpkins!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Oct 8th, 2021 at 6:00pm
https://youtu.be/A3_Jpx70sXQ

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Oct 8th, 2021 at 7:13pm
Did you really get that first one in just one shot?!

Nice smashing!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Oct 8th, 2021 at 8:00pm
Awesome IG !!
Powerful Accurate shots!!!

We got a few submissions now!!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Oct 8th, 2021 at 8:53pm
@Joe. For that take, yes. Lol.

I had probably 30-50 warmup throws (read misses). Once I got one hit though, they just kept coming! I had a bounce hit that cracked the first pumpkin that I didn't include (pumpkin was still out of frame) right before, then the next throw was the first one you see in the video, then those next 8 throws, so 3 hits in 10 throws. Cherry picking at its finest. ;)

I was getting worried I wouldn't hit anything at the beginning of the session.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Oct 11th, 2021 at 12:07am
C_A I'm looking forward to some plastic destruction. How big are those? (diameter)?

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Oct 11th, 2021 at 7:21am
the biggest one I've made so far is hollow, pink and has a seperate lid.
I'll probably save that for after halloween as it'll look great with lights in :-)

The largest single piece is 210x210x150

so 8.5x8.5x6 inches.

It's a good bit bigger than kicks wild pumpkin.

The hollow one is 210mm tall.†

The cracjs develop at that height becase the printerbed is heated to 85c and keeps the abs warm enough for minimal shrinkage up to about 3 inches.
After that it shrinks and the layers seperate.

I could probably put a big cardboard box oevr the whole machine and it would stay warm enough for minimal shrinkage. But honestly, who cares I;m going to kll these anyway :-)

I'll try and find something for a size comparison :-)

I've got some stuff to buy and a few others bits and pieces to make.
But video will be made this week :-)

It'll give me something to keep my mind off not being in ibiza :-( 
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Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by CrazyBrave333 on Oct 18th, 2021 at 10:41pm

Mersa wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 6:42am:
Remember when slinging pumpkins always double tap

So cool!

Loved this video and feel honoured you used that sling! Now i know the accuracy problem isnt the sling its just me lol! Good to see what it can do!

I LOVED the pass through shot - crazy good!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by CrazyBrave333 on Oct 18th, 2021 at 10:42pm

Curious Aardvark wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 7:21am:
But honestly, who cares I;m going to kll these anyway

Cant wait!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by CrazyBrave333 on Oct 18th, 2021 at 10:47pm

IronGoober wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 6:00pm:
https://youtu.be/A3_Jpx70sXQ

Love it - well done IG! Its a shame the first one wasnt in frame - but the sound was satisfying...

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Oct 19th, 2021 at 5:16am
CB333 your slings are great!!!!! Honestly some of the best slings I own and have ever used . Iím not sure if itís the design, the similarity to my own personal favourite sling, the feel and material or a combination of them all but I had no problems with accuracy. Itís got a very clean release and recoil after the shot. I feel I was able to adjust very quickly, probably 10-20 shots.

The 34Ē seatbelt sling is a weapon!! Itís a powerhouse and has almost converted me to a longer sling. I usually donít change sling choice but that thing has been great.

Glad you like the video, the sling helped get the power for the pass through.


Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Oct 20th, 2021 at 1:23pm

CrazyBrave333 wrote on Oct 18th, 2021 at 10:47pm:
Its a shame the first one wasnt in frame - but the sound was satisfying...


It was a shame, and I am ashamed...

I was glad to hit them both though!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Oct 21st, 2021 at 12:09pm
very nice !

love your slinging style :thumb:

And that first shot - damn !
What length sling you using ?

Also great slinging area - what is that big tower thing ?

I've got a few hours slo-mo to wade through and crop down before i can put my video up.

You sling for a couple minutes and end up with a 20 minute slo-mo video clip ! I seem to have ended up with dozens of the bloody things lol
I'd have had more but killed all my ammo :whistle:

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Oct 21st, 2021 at 12:31pm
Thanks! 27" sling. I was using pretty small stones, probably up to 100g. The concrete tower is part of a bridge, it's holding up a road. It's dawned on me more than once that it's a bad place to be if an earthquake ever hit (not an unrealistic expectation where I live).

I'm looking forward to your polymeric disassembly!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Oct 22nd, 2021 at 7:57am
Me too, just got to get the bloody video off the iPad, so I can edit it properly.
Apple software really sucks.
Had to play with a customers Apple laptop last week.
That is one truly awful operating system.
Why people pay such large amounts of money for it is just beyond comprehension.

Weird because the tablet os is nowhere near as bad.
I mean it's not a patch on android, but it's way better than their mainstream os.

Earthquakes eh ?
I'd have thought flash floods would be more of a threat.
Assuming that's what they call a ' dry gulch'† in the westerns :-)

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Nov 5th, 2021 at 6:52pm
So is that all for this yearís pumpkin challenge???

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 5th, 2021 at 8:29pm
No, we're not done yet.

Long story short, my plan isn't going well.† I've had several things that didn't go quite as expected.† I'll have something eventually.† Hopefully not too far down the road.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Curious Aardvark on Nov 9th, 2021 at 11:41am
I've got a sfar as getting the video off the ipad and onto my workshop pc - I now need to get it onto my phone nfor editing and rendering.

tell you something interesting.

last year the shops ran out of pumpkins about 3 days BEFORE the 31st.

this year they massively over ordered and are now giving them away for free.
Most will probably just be dumped.

And I cannot think of anywhere I can take some real pumpkins and kill with stones.

The air dry clay is not tough enough, even when I'd wrapped it in tape it still broke really easily.
Which - to be fair - is why I decided to use it.
It's meant for hitting targets not smashing things up.

So I needed somewhere out of the way with a supply of stones, where i could easily carry several large pumpkins.
And I simply do not have anywhere like that.

Can't even do it in the drive as the motorhome is now back and There's no room.
Real bummer :-(

I did think about making some concrete ammo.
And then didn't lol

It's been a busy couple of weeks.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Archaic Arms on Nov 9th, 2021 at 11:50am
I'd love to get a video in, but being in the middle of a move, I don't have anywhere to make a video, nor access to my usual things.
That being said, I might have a narrow window this upcoming weekend, but don't get your hopes up.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 10th, 2021 at 9:27am
Here we go guys.† Some big stone two-handed pumpkin slinging!

With this video I also bid farewell to big stone slinging for a while.† I've been doing it almost non-stop all year, and it's time to set it aside and work on some other things.† I'm definitely likely to pick up the big stones again, but there's nothing planned at the moment.† Time for some other slinging challenges!

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/ly8Gx3oIoD8

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Nov 10th, 2021 at 10:16am
I loved it! :D You've definitely put the most effort into this year's challenge so far. That was a tough pumpkin. Every year I forget just how much punishment they can take. Pumpkins are not to be underestimated.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Nov 10th, 2021 at 10:51am
The best yet!! I'm glad my wife wasn't home while I watched it or she'd have been very annoyed at all of the hooting and hollering I was doing...

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Nov 10th, 2021 at 6:33pm
Nice Joe!  I canít believe how much momentum is in those monster rocksÖ and I considered slinging a pumpkin at a pumpkin, but you beat me to it! Nice pumpkin inception 😆

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Morphy on Nov 10th, 2021 at 6:37pm
Joe that was a great video LOL. I must say I feel really bad for whatever you put downrange because holy crap those stones hit hard.  ;D

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Nov 10th, 2021 at 10:25pm
Thanks guys!† When the whole thing started I was envisioning a perfect throw and the pumpkin exploding into a thousand pieces.† I quickly learned that wasn't going to happen.† There were times I wasn't sure I would be able to put a video together with all the different things happening.† Losing stones, my backstop slowly breaking down, etc.

Here's a little behind the scenes info.† After throwing the small pumpkins, I wasn't going to go back to stones.† I actually tried to put the big pumpkin in the sling.† It was way to big though and would sit in the pouch securely.† Even if it did, it may have been too heavy for me to throw.† I didn't weight it, but I'm guessing it was close to 20 lb.† So I went and found a really big stone to throw instead.



NooneOfConsequence wrote on Nov 10th, 2021 at 6:33pm:
I considered slinging a pumpkin at a pumpkin, but you beat me to it!

You still could.† I did fail to get a hit.† I didn't know until I saw the video, but the cords got really twisted up when I was throwing the the small pumpkins.† Except for the last one, which came out of the sling pretty clean.† Some practice with those (and the sling I used for them) would have been very helpful, but I just had two of those pumpkins.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Archaic Arms on Nov 11th, 2021 at 6:20am
Love the video Joe!
I basked in the glory of the "dinosaur egg" breaking everything, and splitting of the pumpkin in twain.
Even standing if standing in full plate, that would be terrifying† to take a blow from.†

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Kick on Nov 11th, 2021 at 9:38am
The stories and artifacts from Guam about "canoe breakers" are looking even more plausible.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by Mersa on Nov 11th, 2021 at 7:36pm
Wow joe this video is sensational!!!
You definitely won my vote .
3kg slinging, pumpkins on pumpkins. And finally a range that looks like an aftermath of an explosion.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching that !!

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Nov 12th, 2021 at 3:14pm

joe_meadmaker wrote on Nov 10th, 2021 at 10:25pm:
Thanks guys!† When the whole thing started I was envisioning a perfect throw and the pumpkin exploding into a thousand pieces.†


Two words: ďpyrotechnics, Joe!Ē

Your video was excellent, but thatís not going to stop us from demanding more 🤣

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Dec 6th, 2021 at 11:17am
Better late than never?

https://youtu.be/ood4D73j5Ms

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by joe_meadmaker on Dec 7th, 2021 at 8:16am
Good video NOOC!† I like how you got to the same point I did at the end.† The pumpkin isn't quite destroyed.† The only thing left to do is go in and do it by hand.† ;D

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Dec 7th, 2021 at 12:58pm

joe_meadmaker wrote on Dec 7th, 2021 at 8:16am:
Good video NOOC!† I like how you got to the same point I did at the end.† The pumpkin isn't quite destroyed.† The only thing left to do is go in and do it by hand.† ;D


Thanks Joe!
It probably wouldíve been more on-brand to finish it off with a monkey fist, but my son really wanted to go Office Space gangster on that pumpkin carcass 🤣

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by IronGoober on Dec 7th, 2021 at 11:29pm
Rocks in the backyard! You're a brave soul!  Glad to see they got the send-off they wanted.

Title: Re: Pumpkin challenge 2021
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Dec 8th, 2021 at 9:54pm

IronGoober wrote on Dec 7th, 2021 at 11:29pm:
Rocks in the backyard! You're a brave soul!† Glad to see they got the send-off they wanted.


Rocks once a year is about as much risk as Iím willing to take ;D

The net caught most of them, but behind that was a vinyl target, then a wooden fence, then a brick wall.   A stray flyer slipping out of the pouch could still hit a window, but itís not too likely.

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