this is still very debatable territory for me, regarding what is better.

A very pliable or very 'floppy' sling slings noticeably easier if you ask me
it simply doesn't  resist slinging as much. You can even rotate these slings
with barely any wrist motion.
using them feels so smooth
especially the somewhat thicker but floppy round traditional shepherd slings
I think they are worse at pouch orientation control with the wrist, but at the same time I can
sling with less wrist action which also produces less rotation of the pouch during rotation

On the other hand stiffness in sling cords resist rotation and therefor resist slinging
stiffness in a sling gets less with use, wear and tear
high stiffness requires a certain threshold of stone weight to open properly
but it can provide more direct control of the pouch angle.
However I am doubting whether making slings stiff is worth it at all
really thinking about it stiff sling just doesn't make sense

So I am growing more towards slings without reall stiffness and with round cords, they just feel smoother, more like how a sling is supposed to be
And if tangling/twisting starts being an issue, then simply make the sling thicker instead of making it stiffer (?)

I think stiffness is often a substitute for when fibers are slightly stretchy.
If a sling can reach full tension on the cords in the throw the throw is easier to control.

Under tension, torsional twists and horizontal bends are less likely.

Am I making sense?

I'd go with pliable, not so much for accuracy or control, but portability.

I can stuff a cotton string or mason line huaraca into my back pocket and not even feel it.

Who knows... maybe I'll change my tune when I get around to making a really stiff corn husk balearic.  Something sacrificed, something gained, it's all compromise and balance.

J its a good question man. And I dont have a good answer for it. I used paracord slings for many years. The accuracy was always just fine. Then again my experience with Balearics is they also work very good.

The main advantage I can see with Balearics is ease of reloading. Other than that while feel is definitely different when I look at the actual results I dont know if theres a huge difference or not in accuracy.

Which is odd to me because without a doubt they feel very different than something like paracord.

I feel like where I am with pliable vs stiff is;

If the cords are stiff enough to resist pouch rolling and dropping ammo from the sides of the pouch (only need reinforcement around the pouch for this) and twisting mid wind up and getting in the way of clean releases (so called: pouch angle control) *for your given ammo choice*, then you are in the clear.

I more or less subscribe to your stuff around stiff cords being effective at pouch angle control etc. My only qualm is that I feel like in reality you just don't need that much control and relatively pliable slings do just fine too for most ammo sizes/types. Perhaps the pouch angle is more stable when the cords themselves are under a lot of tension? As opposed to your free hanging twist test.

This is consistent with my personal approach of matching the sling to the ammo. Lighter and pliable slings for lighter and smaller ammo. Heavier and stiffer slings for heavy and large ammo.

well pouch angle control is more down to how wide your grip is, than how stiff the sling is.

For me the stiff balearic style slings just don't hold the ammo as securely as a soft leather pouch sling.
It's one of the things you notice at the international.
The locals get a lot of stones falling out, going sideways and backwards and basically any way but towards the target.
The foreigners with leather slings, or like uwe and puchi with softer woven slings - never lose any ammo.

For heavy rocks - as used in the balearics - short stiff slings certainly make it easier to hit a target.
As long as you can keep it balanced long enough to release in the right direction. 

But as someone who's been using leather and cord (paracord these days, whatever i could get in earlier times) for over 35 years.
I'm kind of biased :-)

I think this is a question of preference rather than what is better.  There are too many factors that go into a sling to claim that one characteristic is better than another (long vs short, full pouch vs split, etc.).  In some situations I think there can be a "better" choice to make, but there are many more variables that need to be accounted for in the decision.  Such as the projectile, style, distance to target, and not least of all the slinger.  Say we were going to have a competition, but it was required that everyone throws Figure-8 style.  I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is going to grab a short sling with stiff cords for that.  And the reverse would be the case in CA's example on heavy projectiles and a short target distance.

That said, I vote for pliable.  :)

With basically everything in slinging, it's always on a spectrum and sometimes that spectrum is a bell curve but the curve is unknown because there just hasn't been enough testing. The best thing for everyone to do is experiment for yourself and try and find that groove that suits you. It's not a very scientific answer but, as you say, there are so many factors I don't know if it will be possible to say which is the "best" sling for each person/style/ammo/situation.

Pliable for me. I personally find stiff slings much less accurate and responsive. 

I generally like my slings to be stiff and responsive for a few reasons. I like to throw big stones, I feel I can put more into them (vs a floppy sling), and reloading is quick without any twists. I also feel more in control when using them.
The caveat is that I also like sling with 'cortaillod'-style slings, but that is mostly for training purposes.

I notice that when using a ~250 300 g stone and a really light sling, the efficiency is very high, there's no resistance to rotation
so it quickly feels as if you have to tune down power in order to gain control back. A stiffer / heavier sling doesnt rotate as freely and thus is already slowed down, as a result it feels as one can up the power. Reality of this  is I think a trick on the mind.
The heavy stone would leave the light sling just as fast or faster, and likely with less excessive spin, it's just because of how efficient  a such a sling combo + heavy stone is (sling no longer feels like its there) that one has to slow down in order to handle it.
In fairness this should be a good thing I think. For it should allow the user to sling in a more controlled manner
Of course if one wants to retain the feel of whanging a heavy stone, you could still shorten the thin sling or use the stiffer/heavy s less efficient sling.

I’ve been saying it for a while j

TRY DYNEEMA

J so it sounds like your views on slings has changed a bit. Is that fair to say? Do you over all prefer more pliable slings now?

The best sling is the one you can hit the target with.

I use thin cords  and really simple slings; Chumash and netted slings for the last month or two. I still use both grips, tight and wide depending on what I throw, where I throw and what type of spin I want.  I  also use rotational and no rotation styles but with rotations no more than 2 or 3.  But have dropped most heavy, thick slings from my arsenal instead finding other solutions. The only things I still see them really being good for is quickest reloading but the upsides of thick slings no longer weight up to the downsides for me. I find I generally sling without straining myself to the max and want the sling to do more of the work.
A light sling can sling light and heavy stones but I find I cannot sling light stones well in a heavy sling. A lot of my projectiles weigh as low as 70 grams

That was one of my initial reasons for liking light slings so much. You can really get a feel for the throw. Makes sense man. While you made your journey over to pliable ive gone the other direction over towards stiffer slings.

Im starting to suspect 5 years from know we will both realize it doesnt matter what we use. Until then im going to keep on studying it.

My personal opinion right now after testing many different slings: it doesn't matter, it's about what you are used to and for me what kind of sling you like making. For example I like making balearics and rockmans so I also like to use them.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Jul 14^th, 2021 at 12:59am:

I notice that when using a ~250 300 g stone and a really light sling, the efficiency is very high, there's no resistance to rotation so it quickly feels as if you have to tune down power in order to gain control back. A stiffer / heavier sling doesnt rotate as freely and thus is already slowed down, as a result it feels as one can up the power. Reality of this  is I think a trick on the mind. The heavy stone would leave the light sling just as fast or faster, and likely with less excessive spin, it's just because of how efficient  a such a sling combo + heavy stone is (sling no longer feels like its there) that one has to slow down in order to handle it. In fairness this should be a good thing I think. For it should allow the user to sling in a more controlled manner Of course if one wants to retain the feel of whanging a heavy stone, you could still shorten the thin sling or use the stiffer/heavy s less efficient sling.

Your right, the efficiency is very high with light slings, in that the energy consumption is less for the equivalent output of a heavy sling. However, just because a sling rotates easier, it doesn't mean you will rotate it faster, it just means you use less energy rotating it. What it really comes down to though is the powerstroke. In my experience with the "cortaillod" slings, you can't "whang" them like you can with a stiff sling, which means slower slower hand speed at release. The stiff cords of the Balearic can stay aligned though the violent "whanging" motion. Reminds me, I'd like to know whether light floppy sling lags behind a bit during the power-stroke compared to a stiff sling, but I'm not sure (I'll film it and see). In essence, I think both sling types are different approaches to achieve a similar thing, so I don't think the battle will be settled anytime soon.

I wonder if simnply making it thicker instead of stiffer would solve those problems as well. I have some relatively thick slings  and they feel very floppy and supple yet they do seem to have less twisting problems during rotation while still having a very easy and efficient turning-rotation (although at the cost of some increased air resistance.) it might be the golden middle way

AncientCraftwork wrote on Jul 17^th, 2021 at 12:38pm:

it might be the golden middle way

I think that's one of the reasons you see slings that have a stiff, flat braid for a retention cord, and a 2 or 3 ply twisted release cord. You get twist resistance and ease of rotation in one sling. I don't think it's a coincidence Jaegoor's balearic is made like that either, it's a great concept.

I think there's more to twist resistance than stiffness (not saying you implied otherwise)
my slings lose stiffness over time, and vary depending on how humid and warm it is. I want to explore whether it's possible to do without real stiffness
we know stiffness resists rotation, and rotating is what a sling wants.
We also know that tension is very important for twist resistance
probably the type of braid and material too, and how that braid locks under tension
of course plied twisted cords under tension want to twist, so that can't be good,
although twisted  cords some benefits that can still make one opt for them, like almost no stretch at all and ease of construction.

So I am making a few more slings from cords I have laying around. 4-5-6 mm round braid synthetic cords but thesed
don't have a core it seems but they are very pliable, they lack a real spine. I also have other synthetic cords laying around
that are very stiff in comparison.

Thicker pliable cords... this is an option I haven't really considered all that much.  Keep the ease of rotation while still preventing tangles. Although the pouch orientation qualities I've yet to explore.
I think a lot of shepherd slings are this way,with their wool round braids.

Something different
I do think elasticity or stretchiness of a sling is not desirable, it makes it feel spongy instead of snappy

I used wool slings for awhile. I was convinced they worked great but it turns out i really dont like the stretching.

When you pull into the powerstroke-or pull point, it stretches noticeably which robs you of speed. "I think" lol cant prove this. But if it does then it also likely hurts accuracy to some extent since a good high tension pull through seems so integral to consistency/accuracy.

Any energy stored in the sling via elasticity wouldnt transfer to the stone anyways since the the sling would naturally want to recoil towards the slinger while the stone is release perpendicular to that motion.

Okay so I did some more experiments with my thin slings today, and by increasing the gap between the gap between the retention and release cord, I was able to "whang" stones to much greater effect. I detract my statement about not being to whang light and thin slings, because you can, it just requires a very specific motion and potentially some adjustments to the grip.
Another thing that became patently obvious to me is just how important fast and 'perfect' spin stabilisation is. One might sling a projectile and see it fly straight and point first, but at long range it can lose enough of it's spin to become un-aerodynamic and drop (like a stone  8-)). This is particularly important if it has flattish faces, as they rob the rotational energy much faster.  I recon a projectile has enough spin if you see it corkscrew after release (due to magnus effect).
With the 28" 'Cortaillod" I managed 215+m (verified with google earth) using stones. Throwing along a calm river, it's easy to see the splashes up to the ~215m mark which was a log jam (and the best throws were traveling over it).
I will attempt to do the same thing with a Balearic of the same length...

Man I’ve been trying to crack 200m with my 27” sling for years. Must be getting some power!!
Your video on YT slinging the wall was nice. Great accuracy and power.

I still don't like rotating the sling multiple times with the wrist prior to the powerstroke when I use a lot of cord seperation in the hand (which for me is a ring finger loop). It's not safe imo because it introduces oscillations up and down the cords which rock the stone back and forth in the pouch, while a tight grip does not cause this.  This rocking back and forth can (not saying it will) but can cause premature releases in my experience which are a danger to the surroundings.

To me if one wants to perfect the multiple rotations, it requires a tight grip, cords gripped together. This one can rotate freely as much as one like and there's no rocking back and forth of the stone in the pouch, there's no chance of premature release.
But as a consequence of the tight grip, the sling cords tend to be made thicker so they don't twist around while they are gripped and rotated together side by side in the hand, and so that one can still control the pouch angle with the tight grip. The thicker cords as a consequence add construction complexity and decreased efficiency. The tight grip already increases the spin rate, the thicker cords increase it even more. The spin becomes too great for the average coarse rock I believe. This I believe decreases efficency even more. All the more reasons for me to leave this sling philosophy behind and focus on the other.

For figure 8 or Greek style I will place the loop on the ring finger every time, because it doesn't use prior rotations that come solely from the wrist. Both styles are all one fluid movement, there are no prior rotations so there are no oscillations up and down the cords that can cause stone slippage caused by the wide grip. Thus all the reason to use the wide grip with these styles.

aside from that, when I use multiple rotations prior to the powerstroke, this is starting to feel tiresome to me, especially with a light sling and 200g or heavier stones, because it rotates so easily

Right now I definitely prefer figure 8 for everything. Because it fits thin slings so well. And thin slings are simpler slings I think, and more efficient. I get 300 g stones to fly point forward every time with figure 8 and with slings that use cords thinner  and floppier than 550 cord. Pouch orientation is not a problem at all because I feel this style mostly relies 95% on tension and the wide grip for pouch orientation, while styles that use multiple rotations prior to the shot require a certain level of sling stiffness to still be able to control the pouch I think. This I am starting to dis like because this adds complexity to the sling, but a complexity that is detrimental to efficency.  A simple sling is a floppy sling with thin cords I believe and this is an efficient sling. Pouch orientation issues can be solved through other means ( for example swapping to figure 8), instead of  making the sling stiff, thick and complex in construction just because one desires Balaeric style, although that is the trend on those Islands. And we rarely see figure 8 and thin slings there and they are convinced their way is the best way. its all compromises in the end and we have to simply seek a preference. I cannot say anymore one thing is better than the other but of course my way is the best way.  ;D To each their own

Mersa wrote on Jul 26^th, 2021 at 6:26am:

Man I’ve been trying to crack 200m with my 27” sling for years. Must be getting some power!! Your video on YT slinging the wall was nice. Great accuracy and power.

Thanks Mersa!
Turns out I was actually being over conservative and I recon  they were more like 250m, as today I was able to throw much further with a 30" (verified 280m+)

Woah dude !!
Are you finding the projectile ??
How are you measuring the distance?
Any chance of filming the throws??

I wish I could get 200m confirmed, with the 27”

I’ve done 185ish lots and found the projectile.
All my possible over 200 are just guessing.

I just had a muck around this morning at a quarry on my way to work.

I have a very pliable soft Kevlar sling… I found the sharp jagged rocks we’re grabbing on release very badly- and I was thinking about this thread.

So my 2c is with good ammo I’m happy with either pliable or stiff, sub-par ammo I prefer stiff so it’s less likely to wrap around ammo.