I've really fallen in love with the idea of making a short bow, these two videos being the main inspiration:

https://youtu.be/v3j396YWnZ4

https://youtu.be/nKUmfwtiw0Y

Hopefully, (if I actually get around to it) I can post my build here. The biggest problem is going to be finding suitable wood. I guess for such a small bow, wood choice is less critical, but I would like something that will last a bit of time. I think I might try and go "full survival" and use some of the nettle cordage I have for the string. Should be plenty strong enough. Any tips and advice appreciated :D One thing I would want to ask is should I go for green or dry wood? I would prefer not to cut down a living tree (mostly because that will be a lot harder to source than dead wood no one cares about...).

You can use hardwood boards from your local hardware store provided the grain is good.

Standing dead trees can work assuming the wood is not decayed in any way. This often depends on the wood species as some are extraordinarily resistant to rot while others can lose strength even before looking decayed. You will know it's not good wood when it explodes at full draw. Dead giveaway.

A wooden short bow will always be far less efficient than a longer bow assuming both are made right. That being said they are an absolute blast to make and use and deadly in the right hands. I have taken short sinew backed bows to ridiculous extremes to see how far I can push them efficiency-wise and sometimes they will just amaze you.

Look for hardwoods and especially with a first time short bow consider backing.

Kick , I promise you that if you contact a local tree company in your area and ask for a specific tree that grows locally not only will you be able to get a nice staff but you will also make something from the waste of the tree removal. You will likely source it within a week or so . you could list some of the trees that are local to your area and your interested in and leave a number, they will likely call you with the goods . Free of charge. That’s where I’d start for remorse free free wood.

As for short bows I love them , I have a 48” bear supermag .
Morphy also helped me build “slapstick” a very short primitive selfbow that spots surprisingly well for a short stick, I’m currently aiming to harvest a rabbit with slapstick but haven’t been hunting a lot lately as it’s almost summer and the beach takes priority.

Looking forward to seeing your progress

Kick wrote on Nov 26^th, 2020 at 3:25pm:

I've really fallen in love with the idea of making a short bow, these two videos being the main inspiration: https://youtu.be/v3j396YWnZ4 https://youtu.be/nKUmfwtiw0Y Hopefully, (if I actually get around to it) I can post my build here. The biggest problem is going to be finding suitable wood. I guess for such a small bow, wood choice is less critical, but I would like something that will last a bit of time. I think I might try and go "full survival" and use some of the nettle cordage I have for the string. Should be plenty strong enough. Any tips and advice appreciated :D One thing I would want to ask is should I go for green or dry wood? I would prefer not to cut down a living tree (mostly because that will be a lot harder to source than dead wood no one cares about...).

Definitely dry wood.  Green wood will quickly take a set that robs you of most of the power in the bow.

See if your local library has The Traditional Boyer's Bible or can get it from inter-library loan.  If you have money, you can also get them on Amazon.

You will know it's not good wood when it explodes at full draw. Dead giveaway.

Morphy wrote on Nov 26^th, 2020 at 3:54pm:

You will know it's not good wood when it explodes at full draw. Dead giveaway.

This is the best method to determine whether or not wood is bow-worthy. I trusted this method exclusively from the time I was 9 until about 18.  Haven't made any bows lately, but I think I'll probably go back to this method for my next bow. :)

Damn I love this forum. Thank you all! This is exactly the advice and help I was hoping for :D Now let's see what I can come up with...

Definitely take all this advice.  MORPHY has pretty much helped everyone start a bow, even mine. If u need some websites for pointer. Let me know. I have found a ton of information.  I like to see everyone else technique.

IronGoober wrote on Nov 27^th, 2020 at 1:41am:

You will know it's not good wood when it explodes at full draw. Dead giveaway. Morphy wrote on Nov 26th, 2020 at 3:54pm: You will know it's not good wood when it explodes at full draw. Dead giveaway. This is the best method to determine whether or not wood is bow-worthy. I trusted this method exclusively from the time I was 9 until about 18.  Haven't made any bows lately, but I think I'll probably go back to this method for my next bow. :)

It's never let me down yet.  ;)

Morphy wrote on Nov 26^th, 2020 at 3:54pm:

You will know it's not good wood when it explodes at full draw. Dead giveaway.

I think this shows how bad the wood that I picked out is...

I went today and grabbed some suitable size pieces of wood. No idea what types, I feel I can get pickier when I actually know what I'm doing. I got one dead piece and one that was technically green but the short tree had fallen recently and was crushed under a larger tree. I didn't feel guilty taking that one.

I started on the dead wood piece and I was wondering the whole time I was working it "Is this one too far gone?". Got enough material off it to gently pull on it over my knee, just to see what sort of flex it had. The answer was no flex at all. Snapped clean in two with almost no force put on it. Well at least there wasn't a sharp arrow anywhere near it when it did that.

Round two: Green wood piece. Much more promising and it was really starting to look bow shaped. I managed to flex it ever so slightly and it was nice and springy though had a long way to go.Then my knife cut a little too deep in one section and created a hinge. I managed to get the hinge worked out though and it was looking pretty good. It was really looking like I was going to have a usable b- SNAP. Right where the hinge had been. It was around the same area as a knot so I think it was just too thin there for it to handle with the wood also not being ideal.

Even though I "failed" It was really pretty fun and I learnt a lot. What exactly have I learned? Take more time with it, get better wood. :D

I've put photos of the breaks up on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/kicktheotter/

U will break a few before u get a 'usable` bow.  My 3rd attempt got me a bow,  unfortunately its only a 8lbs pull. ;D. I might be able to take down chipmunk

Surely it's a record though to break two bows within 2 hours :D

That is fast

Quite possibly part of the problem :D The first one really did break quickly though. I should have checked it a bit more carefully I think.

Kick wrote on Nov 27^th, 2020 at 5:36am:

Morphy wrote on Nov 26th, 2020 at 3:54pm: You will know it's not good wood when it explodes at full draw. Dead giveaway. I think this shows how bad the wood that I picked out is... I went today and grabbed some suitable size pieces of wood. No idea what types, I feel I can get pickier when I actually know what I'm doing. I got one dead piece and one that was technically green but the short tree had fallen recently and was crushed under a larger tree. I didn't feel guilty taking that one. I started on the dead wood piece and I was wondering the whole time I was working it "Is this one too far gone?". Got enough material off it to gently pull on it over my knee, just to see what sort of flex it had. The answer was no flex at all. Snapped clean in two with almost no force put on it. Well at least there wasn't a sharp arrow anywhere near it when it did that. Round two: Green wood piece. Much more promising and it was really starting to look bow shaped. I managed to flex it ever so slightly and it was nice and springy though had a long way to go.Then my knife cut a little too deep in one section and created a hinge. I managed to get the hinge worked out though and it was looking pretty good. It was really looking like I was going to have a usable b- SNAP. Right where the hinge had been. It was around the same area as a knot so I think it was just too thin there for it to handle with the wood also not being ideal. Even though I "failed" It was really pretty fun and I learnt a lot. What exactly have I learned? Take more time with it, get better wood. :D

I'm very excited for you Kick. Don't ever forget this time when you know almost nothing because if you continue with the process you will look back on this period of constantly discovering new information and skills with great fondness some day.

Ok just went through your Instagram again and once again I'm shocked at how prolific you are with projects. So cool.

I have far  too many hobbies and not nearly enough time for half of them. I still have a half finished steel gauntlet I need to complete at some point...

Short bows can be very powerful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=filjF1u7Iqk

You will enjoy these too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr8WkuZB0no

Horn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULVQuCbkFjQ

Once upon a time I found these fiberglass tent poles laying around an abandoned campsite and a destroyed tent, the poles themselves were of great quality.
They were ideal for a ~50''/128 cm bundle bow. So I assembled them together with layers of ducttape
It draws around 40 pounds at a short draw length of 23''.
The nocks are just build naturally into the construction due to the way I configured the bundle.
I've just cut a piece of paracord for the bow string and done.
Since then, I've been shooting more with this bow than with my professionally build hickory longbow or my recurve, and it costed me almost nothing.

Because, I can just take it with me in public, no one will think it's a bow.
It's short. Its tough as nails and  I am not afraid of damaging it
I love it !

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Those horn bows are really amazing. They have so much power for being so small. Hell of a long process though. That tent pole bow looks awesome! I still really want to get a wooden one made. It's a little difficult now with it being so cold outside now.

Looks good J! Great recycling idea.

A great post- apocalyptic bow design. Love it.  ;)

It gets the job done

This guy  makes some amazing composite bows, quite short. I really liked this build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULVQuCbkFjQ

Something very likeable about these short bows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmZHgvaSBLE

Short video showing the tentpole bow I made.
The arrows are a bit too heavy for this bow but they shoot
https://youtu.be/x--s4gP8xfk

edit: link should work now

Nice!

That's neat.

:o :o

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Unstrung lenght somewhat over a meter and max draw length somewhere around 21 inches
Its made of a piece of well seasoned hawthorn. Not the most efficient pair of limbs but its what I had to work with
I made it with a hatchet, a knife and some flint for scraping. The string is paracord.
I m confident It could take a grouse or duck at 15 meters.The skill ceiling for such a shot is much lower compared to the sling or atatl, its a different realm altogether, and you can be very stealthy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBnPYaiVJxc&feature=youtu.be

That's the sort of size I'm wanting to go for.

I have two long bows in the making. When I am finished, I am def going to make a three foot hazel bow.
Thanks for the inspiration and links!

They're about the easiest bows to make, the hard part is waiting the sapling staves to cure so you can start working on them. I tillered mine down a little more, its better now.

I like these primitive light drawweight bows. Primitive stone age cultures seem to agree. Less draw weight means easier aiming, easier construction, and the string will last longer. I read native American bows rarely exceeded 45 lbs and African bows were even weaker .The trick is in the point, you want the flint point to be as sharp as possible. They took down deer and antilope with these tiny stone points they used. Of course it requires good shot placement.

walter wrote on Dec 18^th, 2020 at 7:45pm:

I have two long bows in the making. When I am finished, I am def going to make a three foot hazel bow. Thanks for the inspiration and links!

The stick

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Nice little baby snake boy you got coming.

Hoping to getit floor tillered this weekend

Got the tips worked down and a little of the belly and sides. Looks like I will have to straighten the kink just past the ctr of the stick.

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Thats gonna be an awesome, beautiful, one of a kind bow

@ vetryan15

Or kindlin :-/

Can’t wait to see it

Get after it Walter.

The first video is very nice and its easiness also inspired me to make a short bow.
Just yesterday I went into the woods, cut down a tree, went home and shaped it with an axe and knife. Then it split around the middle when I tried to string it. So I went into woods again, cut down another tree, went home and shaped it with an axe and knife. This time I shaped the middle of the bow into a thicker than the rest of the bow handle. I strung it, fired some grill spears and left it strung for the night. Next morning I strung a tighter string but when I pulled in it too much it snapped (not around the handle though). This happened just two minutes ago. 
My introduction to bow making.                


In the first video he heat treats the bow before stringing it. What difference does this make and is it necessary?

How long can you wait before working on a piece of wood that you have just cut down? Is something like 24 hours acceptable?

Slyngorm wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 5:18am:

I strung it, fired some grill spears and left it strung for the night. Next morning I strung a tighter string but when I pulled in it too much it snapped (not around the handle though).

You never, ever, leave a bow strung if you aren't shooting with it, not even the nice, professionally made ones. The wood gets permanently bent and they loose their power really, really quickly, in a matter of hours if you work with living wood bows we all made as kids. Or so I persume.

The breakage was proabbly a combination of factors, maybe the grains weren't straight, plus leaving it strung over night as it dried out - see below for that.


Slyngorm wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 5:18am:

In the first video he heat treats the bow before stringing it. What difference does this make and is it necessary?

Pretty necessary in this circumstance, not at all otherwise. See below.


Slyngorm wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 5:18am:

How long can you wait before working on a piece of wood that you have just cut down? Is something like 24 hours acceptable?

Right, so the principal issue here is that the living wood contains a lot of water - you can see that if you try to burn it, you get steam and bubbles on the surface. As the stick gets older and older after you cut it, the water dries out, and this process slightly warps the wood and generally changes how it behaves.

For any sort of permanent construction, bows included, the waiting time is about a year. Yup. You should also cover the ends of the stick with glue or some other stuff that prevents it from drying unevenly.

What you see in that first video, however, is the survivalist bow - you end up out in the woods and need to shoot a deer today, what do you do? Well, you use fire to dry it, which will get you an inferior bow to one you'd get if you waited a year, but you will manage to not starve.

This sort of bow is more prone to warping over time and probably breaking as well, but that's not really a mark against it - it's supposed to be an improvised hunting weapon, quick to make and replace if need be.

:-X

Slyngorm wrote on Feb 19^th, 2021 at 5:18am:

The first video is very nice and its easiness also inspired me to make a short bow. Just yesterday I went into the woods, cut down a tree, went home and shaped it with an axe and knife. Then it split around the middle when I tried to string it. So I went into woods again, cut down another tree, went home and shaped it with an axe and knife. This time I shaped the middle of the bow into a thicker than the rest of the bow handle. I strung it, fired some grill spears and left it strung for the night. Next morning I strung a tighter string but when I pulled in it too much it snapped (not around the handle though). This happened just two minutes ago.  My introduction to bow making.                 In the first video he heat treats the bow before stringing it. What difference does this make and is it necessary? How long can you wait before working on a piece of wood that you have just cut down? Is something like 24 hours acceptable?

If you are interested in this topic I will post some videos about it if you wish?

EDIT: Actually come to think of it Ive been planning on making a simple over view on the process. Im off today and considering ive been awake since 4am yesterday I feel pretty good. Today might just be the day...

Another day.
Another bow.

So I went ahead and shaped a new bow just today (also from the tree I cut down to make my former). And hopefully the head of the nail was hit with this one. I actually went ahead and did some proper tillering of the limbs so they bend far more evenly than with my other bows. This afternoon I strung it and it will be left so till afternoon tomorrow. BOY it has been difficult to keep my fingers off the string.   

Are there any general rules concerning string length and how long you can draw it?
In the video the man says you can draw it as far back as the length of the bow's limbs.


Martin_Greywolf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2021 at 8:05am:

You never, ever, leave a bow strung

I read that newly crafted bows have to be left strung for a day or so to break it in. But thanks for the tip of not leaving it strung at all times.


Morphy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2021 at 9:55am:

If you are interested in this topic I will post some videos about it if you wish?

Oh yes please.

I am mostly following the one video Kick posted and this guide here.
https://www.primitiveways.com/sapling_bow.html

It would be very helpful and appreciated  Morphy! Also, I highly recommend the Traditional Bowyer Bible series.

I made a part one. Its a basic series showing new bowyers important concepts to understand. Part two will be more about shaping and tillering.

I’ll be following your series for sure

Im sure you walter and joe are way too advanced for it at this point bit the tillering part might have some few interesting things. Just a very basic series

I am no where as advanced as y think. I only done 1 completely

This is my fifth try and best one yet. This is also the first one I firehardened and it definitely makes a difference. It accidently became much shorter than intended (a pinch over 1 meter, or 3,3 feet) but still packs quite a punch.
The limbs are paper thin and very easy to draw.

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What is the draw weight ?

2 kg/5 lb
It can probably be drawn further than I have done so far. I am a bit wary of breaking it.

Excellent. Its a fun journey.

#37@24'' wood unknown

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Zorro is that you??

it's to prevent covid spread, dont'want to infect you guys.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Mar 6^th, 2021 at 7:37am:

it's to prevent covid spread, dont'want to infect you guys.

Lol!!

Ok have to ask wheres the video of you shooting this bad boy???  :D

Morphy wrote on Mar 6^th, 2021 at 7:45am:

AncientCraftwork wrote on Mar 6th, 2021 at 7:37am: it's to prevent covid spread, dont'want to infect you guys. Lol!! Ok have to ask wheres the video of you shooting this bad boy???  :D

Also is it possible we could get a side view profile of the bow unstrung after youve shot it? And I would sure love to know what that wood is too... Hmmm. Where do you live J? Generally speaking of course.

maybe

AncientCraftwork wrote on Mar 6^th, 2021 at 7:28am:

#37@24'' wood unknown

I really dig the colours. Has it been given oil?

some

it has taken some set but it seems to be it, and I had to do some more tillering. final drawweight will be around #30 but that doesnt say much.

Got pics,???????

Previous page has pictures, I am too lazy to post pictures again

Thats kind of beat that u said u finished it, but wont post updated pics of it. Very disappointing i was enjoying watching your progress as i am learning bow making as well

vetryan15 wrote on Mar 8^th, 2021 at 2:13pm:

Thats kind of beat that u said u finished it, but wont post updated pics of it. Very disappointing i was enjoying watching your progress as i am learning bow making as well

I have to admit it is a bit of a let down. I love when we share progress with each other. But I guess it is what it is.

130 centimeters unstrung and a little bit shorter strung. Followed the instructions of Primitive Technology. Fire hardened and oiled. Helluva powerful compared to my previous bow.
It broke a few moments ago. Is there any fool proof way of testing a bow’s maximum draw with minimum tools?

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Third picture, bottom limb, mid limb broke in tension? Just a wild guess.

But anyways to answer your question is there a way to determine max draw? Do you mean before it breaks completely? Or before it takes too much set to make the longer draw worth it? There is a happy medium there where you hit a long enough powerstroke to equal the best possible speed with the corresponding lowest set you can hope for given the dimensions of the bow. And the only way to really get there is to continue drawing with a chronograph and a shooting machine. Neither of which I would assume you own since you are talking minimum tools.

But realistically that is a pure research and design question. You would make a bow to the dimensions you need from the outset. If I want a 28 inch draw from a 60 pound bow I need to know the wood species and what kind of front view profile and side view profile I need for the best combination of draw weight, draw length and low set.

There is a nice little trick in the 4th Bowyers Bible called The Mass Principle. It will help you but you need more practice on the basics. If you have the 1st Bowyers Bible read the Tillering chapter. Then read it again. Then make some bows using what you’ve learned and read the chapter again. Lol. That’s the heart of bowmaking.

Well, you are right about the breaking point  :o :-? :P :D

And that is already some complicated stuff you are talking about there and a whole lot of concepts and haven't even considered. I just gotta research some more that is the only solution.
Since you wrote that I have made two new bows. With one of them I tried making a bow of the exact same construction, wood type, length and width. The one I posted could withstand a draw of about 65 cm and the new one can withstand a draw of at least 57 cm.

I'll just keep it at that a little longer. Breaking bows is not a nice feeling.  :-/

Slyngorm wrote on Mar 12^th, 2021 at 10:58am:

Well, you are right about the breaking point  :o :-? :P :D And that is already some complicated stuff you are talking about there and a whole lot of concepts and haven't even considered. I just gotta research some more that is the only solution. Since you wrote that I have made two new bows. With one of them I tried making a bow of the exact same construction, wood type, length and width. The one I posted could withstand a draw of about 65 cm and the new one can withstand a draw of at least 57 cm. I'll just keep it at that a little longer. Breaking bows is not a nice feeling.  :-/

Oh WAIT! Hold on!! That’s because you aren’t looking at it from the right point of view. Every time you break a bow it’s like gaining more experience than you would had you made ten bows that survive. So long as...and this is the key, you study what went right and what went wrong.

Every broken bow is a triumph because it means you are pushing your limits and learning. Who is learning faster? A guy who breaks 15 bows in a row but finally works out all the problems and makes a shooter on his 16th? Or a guy who makes the same style bow over and over and never fails. Obviously the first guy.

Never consider a broken bow a failure. It’s not. It’s a future success.

Morphy wrote on Mar 12^th, 2021 at 1:26pm:

Slyngorm wrote on Mar 12th, 2021 at 10:58am: Well, you are right about the breaking point  :o :-? :P :D And that is already some complicated stuff you are talking about there and a whole lot of concepts and haven't even considered. I just gotta research some more that is the only solution. Since you wrote that I have made two new bows. With one of them I tried making a bow of the exact same construction, wood type, length and width. The one I posted could withstand a draw of about 65 cm and the new one can withstand a draw of at least 57 cm. I'll just keep it at that a little longer. Breaking bows is not a nice feeling.  :-/ Oh WAIT! Hold on!! That’s because you aren’t looking at it from the right point of view. Every time you break a bow it’s like gaining more experience than you would had you made ten bows that survive. So long as...and this is the key, you study what went right and what went wrong. Every broken bow is a triumph because it means you are pushing your limits and learning. Who is learning faster? A guy who breaks 15 bows in a row but finally works out all the problems and makes a shooter on his 16th? Or a guy who makes the same style bow over and over and never fails. Obviously the first guy. Never consider a broken bow a failure. It’s not. It’s a future success.

That's a good tip. Just thought my previous bow was pretty good already so I wanted to make a similar one now when I knew how far I could draw it. And I just like the feeling of having a bow at hand.

Slyngorm wrote on Mar 12^th, 2021 at 4:14pm:

Morphy wrote on Mar 12th, 2021 at 1:26pm: Slyngorm wrote on Mar 12th, 2021 at 10:58am: Well, you are right about the breaking point  :o :-? :P :D And that is already some complicated stuff you are talking about there and a whole lot of concepts and haven't even considered. I just gotta research some more that is the only solution. Since you wrote that I have made two new bows. With one of them I tried making a bow of the exact same construction, wood type, length and width. The one I posted could withstand a draw of about 65 cm and the new one can withstand a draw of at least 57 cm. I'll just keep it at that a little longer. Breaking bows is not a nice feeling.  :-/ Oh WAIT! Hold on!! That’s because you aren’t looking at it from the right point of view. Every time you break a bow it’s like gaining more experience than you would had you made ten bows that survive. So long as...and this is the key, you study what went right and what went wrong. Every broken bow is a triumph because it means you are pushing your limits and learning. Who is learning faster? A guy who breaks 15 bows in a row but finally works out all the problems and makes a shooter on his 16th? Or a guy who makes the same style bow over and over and never fails. Obviously the first guy. Never consider a broken bow a failure. It’s not. It’s a future success. That's a good tip. Just thought my previous bow was pretty good already so I wanted to make a similar one now when I knew how far I could draw it. And I just like the feeling of having a bow at hand.

Where do you live Slyngorm? I’ll put you on the list. The bottom unfortunately but it’s still on the list.  ;D

But if you are like me you wont be satisfied with someone else’s bow for long. You will want to shoot your own. If you want you can start a new thread and slowly walk us through and get pointers as you go?

"... and I just like the feeling of having a bow at hand."   :thumb: