I use all of the styles but my favorite for targets over fifty yards away is Balearic.  For anything closer than fifty yards I like Underarm.  The style I'm least comfortable with is Pirouette. 

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What I think is more important regards of style is good consistent posture. How do you stand?  Jaegoor has some good videos on how he stands and his reasoning why

Es gibt nur drei Stile.  ;)

Alles andere. Ob griechisch, atztekisch, oder serbokroatisch. Ist pseudo geschwafel. Sie alle verwenden die gleiche Physik. Und das meiste davon ist sinnbefreit.

Depends on what I’m trying to do. At long distances/small targets the most pin point accurate style I’ve used is the figure 8.

However I’ve had reasonably good results with side arm throws with the added benefit of it being more powerful.

That being said I will take a slower hit over a faster miss any day so if I had to use one to stay fed I would use the figure-8.

bambula f8

As is obvious in my videos, I use everything. I think I've tried every single sling style at least for a few practice sessions. The ones I always come back to are Helicopter, which is what I started with and I'm probably most comfortable with, Fig 8 for power shots, Balearic for distance (still need to do a lot more work on it though) and Greek for accuracy. Bambula's Fig 8 is a good one to throw in sometimes as well.


Jaegoor wrote on Jun 28^th, 2020 at 3:51pm:

Es gibt nur drei Stile.  ;) Alles andere. Ob griechisch, atztekisch, oder serbokroatisch. Ist pseudo geschwafel. Sie alle verwenden die gleiche Physik. Und das meiste davon ist sinnbefreit.

I agree that there are three release points, under, over and side, but how you get there is what defines different styles and can have an effect, at least for me, on how the throw turns out.

No rotor styles work best for me. Byzantine with various release styles and figure 8.

Auch richtig. Aber es sind dann keine eigenen Stile. Sie gehören immer einer der drei grundstile an. Wie es im kampfsport ebenfalls nur wenige grundtechniken gibt. Diese können aber nahezu endlos variiert oder kombiniert werden.
Natürlich kann jeder dann sagen das ist der und der Stil. Im Grunde wäre das aber falsch.
Was macht einen griechischen Stil zu einem griechischem Stil? Oder byzantinische?
Wer hat es so benannt? Und warum? Gibt es eine historische Abbildung?
Abbildungen folgen immer dem Gesetz der jeweiligen Zeit. Sie eins zu eins zu übernehmen und zu sagen das war so, ist fraglich?
Es ist auch nicht sinnvoll

Byzantine, Greek or Balearic.
I like fig8 but I find it harder on my shoulder.
Greek has been particularly accurate for me this year.

--

Sort of sidearm/balearic/heli, I also like fig-8 though.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 29^th, 2020 at 8:37am:

I agree with Jaegoor here. It's easier to just say whether underhand, overhand or sidearm is your preferred style. If one simply states Greek or Byzantine it's still not clear whether you mean overhand, underhand or sidearm.

But on the other side of that point, if you simply say "sidearm", you could be using helicopter or pirouette.  Which are quite different.  I tend to think of overhand, sidearm, and underhand as the release movements, like Kick mentioned.  But if these are the styles of slinging, what is the term when you include the other movements of the sling and the body?  Should this be called technique?


And on the question, I think of the throw I use as a helicopter variant.  But I rotor at an angle rather than horizontal.

Was ist pirouette? Es ist ein Tanz. Eine Spielerei. Physikalisch hat diese Bewegung keinen Einfluss. Sie können mit so einem Tanz alle drei Stile schießen. Aber es gibt keinen vierten.

Kick wrote on Jun 29^th, 2020 at 2:41am:

As is obvious in my videos, I use everything. I think I've tried every single sling style at least for a few practice sessions. The ones I always come back to are Helicopter, which is what I started with and I'm probably most comfortable with, Fig 8 for power shots, Balearic for distance (still need to do a lot more work on it though) and Greek for accuracy. Bambula's Fig 8 is a good one to throw in sometimes as well. Jaegoor wrote on Jun 28th, 2020 at 3:51pm: Es gibt nur drei Stile.  ;) Alles andere. Ob griechisch, atztekisch, oder serbokroatisch. Ist pseudo geschwafel. Sie alle verwenden die gleiche Physik. Und das meiste davon ist sinnbefreit. I agree that there are three release points, under, over and side, but how you get there is what defines different styles and can have an effect, at least for me, on how the throw turns out.

Absolutely. The difference between a simple overhand compared to the figure-8 is quite large. The difference between the Apache and the figure-8 is arguably even greater. The wind up plays a huge role in how the mechanics of a throw work.

After going through all three styles and as many of their variations as I could find, I have settled on Balearic and never went back. I wouldn't say its either overhand or sidearm, for me its a bit of a combination. Recently threw glandes way over 200y and would have likely landed 350-400y if there wasn't a embankment (with 28" sling and this style).

I really struggle to see how anyone knows how far they sling with lead. In my experience it’s nearly impossible to follow the glande through the whole flight due to size, they bury and over water they don’t even splash, perhaps it’s just me but I can’t see how people follow the glande.

I have some tungsten ammo and have surely thrown it great distances but I can’t claim it because I can’t see it or find it.

200m is far
450m ish is the record and always with long slings.
500 ish is unofficial record on this forum
And then 800+ on YouTube.

I just struggle to comprehend how someone can see the glande traveling that far.

I would also like to know how this is accomplished.

Well let's take VoloundExpounds as a guide. Why him? He claims distances of 800m+ (furthest I've ever heard), has numerous videos (so you can actually see what he's doing) and, though he hasn't been able to find the lead he's been throwing because it would be almost impossible, he does have some math to show he's throwing very fast and very far if not the full 800m.

He uses pirouette style, an ultra thin, ultra long, 1mm UHMWPE sling with an ultra small pouch and biconical lead glades. And he throws really hard.

All these factors add up to very long distances except perhaps pirouette. i would say any sidearm throw would do it.

-

-

The way I know it would have gone at least 300y, is because I saw it fly over the tops of trees on an embankment which would be about ~150ft above level ground (with perfect stabilisation). It was also a cloudy sky which made them much easier to see. Unfortunately I threw 2 easier-to-see red ones but they were flying a bit sideways and one hit one of the tree trunks on the embankment and wouldn't have gone so far. They still go like a rocket though.
Clay on the other hand lags behind, but still got 200y shots with ~50g clay projectiles with the same 28" sling (again hitting tree trunks, but much lower down).
When you realise that lead is about seven times denser, an extra 100-200y makes complete sense.

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WOTS I’m not saying you didn’t throw that far but I would question your logic.
I’ve had throws like this in the past , but once I really went to the effort of actually measuring throws on level ground and getting confirmed distances I was surprised.
Judging distances and especially height can be deceptive.
I do it a lot as part of my job and as a bow hunter.
I climb trees for a living and measure trees heights
Even with lazer rangefinders tree hights are almost never what you expected. Trees come in lots of shapes and can be difficult to actually measure until you physically measure the height. The same is true for distance on the ground. I can pretty accurately judge distances in certain terrain but in other terrain I can be completely off. This method of approximating distances also implies a perfect release angle and a theoretical (no wind resistance) parabolic arc. In real life wind and air actually play a massive role. Tail wind , cross wind , Magnus effect all can change those theoretical max distances. Sometimes even increasing distances.
This is why I really find these claims to be difficult to be accurate.

I really want to reiterate that I’m not discrediting you’re throws.
They are well inside of actual measured distances and I think your claims are very plausible. I don’t want this to come off as negative as I’m sure it does. It’s mostly the extravagant claims of almost double the record that really eerrk me.
But I would like to say that there can be surprises when you measure it on flat ground, and getting accurate measurements can be difficult enough.

Sorry if this sounds dismissive it not personally directed at you and I apologise if it seems that way.

As for the 800m+ claims the best piece of data that you can take is the mussel(release) velocity.
Videos of slinging on the beach are great but they don’t confirm anything. Realistically if the release speed is accurate and the maths says it’s within the realms of possibility then it’s possible but it’s far from confirmed. If we used the same logic for paper planes would we be accurate?? Or for frisbees??
Both of these examples are on the opposite end of the spectrum but golf balls are exceeding theoretical maximums as well. It’s just as possible our approximations with lead glandes May have other aerodynamic effects playing roles both negatively or positively.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 30^th, 2020 at 1:58am:

I think Turkey throw is much better, more resembling a classic overhand throw

I've just made a video (got it all filmed before breakfast :D) with the Turkey Throw and Greek style. I think they are pretty comparable, but, at least in the short session I just did, I was far more accurate with Greek and in a lot of the shots was getting more power. This is kind of what I mean when I say that I agree there are three broad (because as you said, the angles are not always identical) release points, but getting to those release points can have a major effect on how the throw turns out and that's what I think makes the style.


AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 30^th, 2020 at 1:58am:

Apache is such a weird throw to me.

I've never comfortably used Apache as you describe. I think of all the "established" styles, it's the least efficient and most uncomfortable to use.


AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 30^th, 2020 at 2:12am:

What is Pirouette?

This is a problem that comes up on the forum every few years or even months. The real problem is that humans like classification and, I have to say, a lot of slingers are science and mathematically minded (only the first one for me...) and so very much like the idea of classifying all of the different styles. The problem is that this forum has cultivated a language that would be difficult to change to more neutral names. If I say fig. 8 we'll all know roughly what I mean. Same with Balearic. It's absolutely true that every Balearic slinger that I saw at the International was doing something different to everyone else, but, because of this shared language, we know I mean a sidearm release with most likely prerotations, angled to the rear of the body and usually horizontally to the target. It's a lot quicker to just say Balearic than go through with a long list of qualifiers. This was the problem Bambula had a little while ago. He was absolutely convinced he had a completely unique throwing style that was unlike anything anyone had ever done before. To everyone here, it looked like fig 8 but before he went into the fig 8 motion he rotated the sling forwards a few times rather than hold it or let it hang. He wanted a name for it and I said "Fig 8 with pre rotations" and he threw an absolute hissy fit. He was incredulous that I dare suggest his unique style wasn't absolutely unique (except I do think he's the only person I've seen to have pre rotations with fig 8 and it actually makes for a very relaxing throw) and he stormed off the forum never to be heard from again.

The names are very broad because so many aspects go into a throw that if we were to get too granular with it we would be spending all our time classifying and none actually slinging :D For me, pirouette specifically is sidearm, but you spin your whole body around and release with a straight arm. That's specifically pirouette.


AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 30^th, 2020 at 2:12am:

but then when they're about to throw, the last wind up they do is over the head instead of around the body and then they release a normal sidehand.

Let's call that one Dizzy Helicopter :D


Mersa wrote on Jun 30^th, 2020 at 2:58am:

As for the 800m+ claims the best piece of data that you can take is the mussel(release) velocity. Videos of slinging on the beach are great but they don’t confirm anything. Realistically if the release speed is accurate and the maths says it’s within the realms of possibility then it’s possible but it’s far from confirmed. If we used the same logic for paper planes would we be accurate?? Or for frisbees?? Both of these examples are on the opposite end of the spectrum but golf balls are exceeding theoretical maximums as well. It’s just as possible our approximations with lead glandes May have other aerodynamic effects playing roles both negatively or positively.

I would say this is the best summary of the distance debate.

Was ist Figur 8? Ein overhand wurf ohne distanz Regelung.
Sie können damit auch nicht auf sich bewegende Ziele agieren.
Figur 8 ist einfach zu erlernen für Anfänger. Doch diese Methode ist trügerisch. Dazu kommt, daß sie nicht wirklich gesund ist.
Es bleibt aber ein overhand wurf.
Studieren Sie spanische Literatur. Dort werden ebenfalls nur drei Grund Stile beschrieben. Nur wenige Spanier kennen diese Bücher. Slingen ist für viele nur Fun. Und genau da liegt das Problem. Wenn es nur als Fun behandelt wird, geht die sportliche Ernsthaftigkeit verloren.
Natürlich gibt jeder slinger eine ganz eigene Note dazu. Das ist völlig normal und gibt es in jeder Sportart. Hier im forum ist zu beibachtendas immer wieder mal Neulinge auftauchen. Sie schießen ein halbes Jahr und glauben alles über das slingen zu wissen. Bambula war ein gutes Beispiel. Und natürlich muß man sich profilieren indem man gleich einen neuen Stil oder eine neue Schleuder erfindet.
Ihre video Beweise sind immer sehr begrenzt. Auf Wettkämpfen sieht man sie nie. Andere dagegen sind Arbeiter. David Morningstar zum Beispiel. Er ist oft traurig darüber das er nicht besser trifft. Dabei könnte er viel besser sein. Seine Anlagen sind sehr gut. Eine woche gezieltes Training und er würde sich erheblich verbessern.

Are overhand, underhand, and sidearm (as it relates to slinging) determined by the movement of the arm or the movement of the sling?

I prefer underhand with a 31 inch sling  single spin  ,and yes I am old,  74 years old in fact. If I go to my 45 incher  I like Balearic.....due to the lag with that length it is difficult for me to do a single spin underhand ..and the single spin is what I mainly use

AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 28^th, 2020 at 3:19pm:

To me there are just 3 styles, underhand, sidearm and overhand.

I have to emphatically disagree. My favorite styles cannot be described by any of these three: Kung Fu Meteor Hammer Knee-Strike style is my favorite!  Reverse Elbow-Strike is a close second.

Neither of these is practical, but they are a lot of fun if you happen to have a 5-foot-long sling around ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52sE2bD4Af8

I've stuck by what seems to be an Apache style for a while now, which evolved out of my experimentation with the Greek style. I like the simplicity of it, along with the horizontal-plane accuracy.


NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2020 at 11:11pm:

I have to emphatically disagree. My favorite styles cannot be described by any of these three: Kung Fu Meteor Hammer Knee-Strike style is my favorite!

KFMHKS is a unique style for sure! It's a better integration of slinging and fixed mass-on-a-string weaponry than I could've thought of, ha ha. My "meteor sling" was as much a turkey weapon as KFMHKS is a turkey style. ;D

Apache is a weird style, but I love it. So different than all the others

Captain_Twine wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2020 at 4:33pm:

I've stuck by what seems to be an Apache style for a while now, which evolved out of my experimentation with the Greek style. I like the simplicity of it, along with the horizontal-plane accuracy. NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jul 2nd, 2020 at 11:11pm: I have to emphatically disagree. My favorite styles cannot be described by any of these three: Kung Fu Meteor Hammer Knee-Strike style is my favorite! KFMHKS is a unique style for sure! It's a better integration of slinging and fixed mass-on-a-string weaponry than I could've thought of, ha ha. My "meteor sling" was as much a turkey weapon as KFMHKS is a turkey style. ;D

Oh no! Turkey style is completely different. Before CA fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance to The Forum, we had to do battle with a great troll by the name of RS.  The epic battle  against this troll was fierce. I was there, but the real reason I know about it is because I read about this great battle in an ancient scroll that has since been lost to the fires of Mount Kilimanjaro.  Many slingers were deceived by RS’s siren song, but in the end, the troll king was permanently banished from this land. Before he disappeared forever though, he left us with Turkey style.

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jul 4^th, 2020 at 8:38am:

Oh no! Turkey style is completely different. Before CA fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance to The Forum, we had to do battle with a great troll by the name of RS.  The epic battle  against this troll was fierce. I was there, but the real reason I know about it is because I read about this great battle in an ancient scroll that has since been lost to the fires of Mount Kilimanjaro.  Many slingers were deceived by RS’s siren song, but in the end, the troll king was permanently banished from this land. Before he disappeared forever though, he left us with Turkey style.

Oh, shoot. One moment - Does the phrase "Turkey style" refer to the particular style, that the ancient Troll King RS left upon his banishment, or can it refer to any style that is considered gimmicky or impractical? I always assumed the latter, but then, I've only got 48 (After this 49) posts to my username; I'm not on top of my Slinging.org lingo to be sure.

LOL!  I understood what you meant :)
Kick just posted a video in the “rainy day” topic where he was throwing sock balls indoors with the RS Turkey Style... it’s an overhand throw that whips over your shoulder and at the end of the throw, your wrist bends forward like your hand is forming the head and your arm is the neck of the turkey. It’s designed to make the slinger look silly, but technically it will also launch a projectile.

Morphy wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2020 at 4:36pm:

Apache is a weird style, but I love it. So different than all the others

     Apache is easy to learn.  For the first few months of my slinging career that's all I used.  Also, it has no wind up so it's very fast.  This could be useful for hunting purposes. 
    The disadvantages are that it's not the most accurate style and it doesn't have great range.  After using just
Apache for a few months I could get as  far as eighty or ninety yards which isn't bad but I can shoot over twice as far using other styles. 

Rat Man wrote on Jul 5^th, 2020 at 1:10pm:

Morphy wrote on Jul 3rd, 2020 at 4:36pm: Apache is a weird style, but I love it. So different than all the others      Apache is easy to learn.  For the first few months of my slinging career that's all I used.  Also, it has no wind up so it's very fast.  This could be useful for hunting purposes.      The disadvantages are that it's not the most accurate style and it doesn't have great range.  After using just Apache for a few months I could get as  far as eighty or ninety yards which isn't bad but I can shoot over twice as far using other styles.

Yes a big deal is made out of it in the article written but after rereading it 10 times or so I’m convinced half of it at least is just his ideas rather than what the guy told him.

I don’t necessarily think it’s the best style out there but I came to really enjoy it because it’s so different than any other style.

I just remembered I have a real old video on Youtube of me doing Turkey Throw against a pumpkin. Didn't hit the sodding thing once and my form is terrible but still it gives you the basic idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwmcwYi_hUs

Level Up!
Slinging Nomenclature: 2 (+1)
Power: 1
Accuracy: 1
Range: 1

The more you know, right? That's one less phrase I'll ever misuse again, at least ;D

Morphy wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2020 at 4:36pm:

Apache is a weird style, but I love it. So different than all the others

I theorize that the current "Apache" is a misinterpretation. I believe it should actually be done more like a figure-8 from the same rest position, resulting in much more power. I've never seen an Apache slinger sling, so I don't know whether this is true or not, but what is considered the "Apache" method doesn't seem at all practical to me when compared to other methods.

I'm fairly sure the "Apache" title is basically random. I dont believe there is any evidence the Apache actually used that style specifically.

-

I like Byzantine but because I like longer slings I make figure 8s bellow my waist to keep it off the dirt

As confusing as it may be most people on the forum have a good understanding of our “made up names”.
Be nice to make a montage of us slinging for newbies.

Mersa wrote on Jul 8^th, 2020 at 7:20pm:

Be nice to make a montage of us slinging for newbies.

Found this when I started
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kdRs4x1fs&t=273s
At time 9:10  there is a split screen showing all the release points of the different styles.

Shakli wrote on Jul 9^th, 2020 at 3:19am:

Found this when I started https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kdRs4x1fs&t=273s At time 9:10  there is a split screen showing all the release points of the different styles.

This one recently became my favorite slinging video.

Not bad for the styles shown but we have a few more we would need to add to get the complete “slinging.org” vocabulary

I use that video as well as my reference point for the different styles. It's (so far) the most comprehensive and clear.

Archaic Arms wrote on Jul 8^th, 2020 at 12:44am:

Morphy wrote on Jul 3rd, 2020 at 4:36pm: Apache is a weird style, but I love it. So different than all the others I theorize that the current "Apache" is a misinterpretation. I believe it should actually be done more like a figure-8 from the same rest position, resulting in much more power. I've never seen an Apache slinger sling, so I don't know whether this is true or not, but what is considered the "Apache" method doesn't seem at all practical to me when compared to other methods.

It’s possible. Of course it’s likely that there is no one “Apache” style but many different styles used by them.

One interesting thing about the classic Apache as we know it here is that there is an actual video of an indigenous possibly Inuit child using a sling in the Apache style. It’s one of the few videos we have of any North American indigenous person using a style that is likely original to their people. So we can reasonably assume it’s a real style used by these groups but whether it has anything at all to do with the Apache is not nor will ever be known for sure.

-

I don't do any of the styles I've seen here. I have a crappy homemade style that works well for me.

Apart from Greek and Apache, none of them seem suitable for hunting, and I had a try with Greek and threw all over the place. I'm probably too old to change without a very good reason.

When I throw long sling and big rocks (which is rare) I use Polynesian.

a wrote on Nov 6^th, 2020 at 2:39am:

I had a try with Greek and threw all over the place

That's funny because Greek is my most accurate style :D What's even funnier is that it's my most accurate but far from my favourite :D I much prefer helicopter and fig 8. Balearic I'm bad at and half the time end up almost straining my arm but I still prefer it to Greek. I'm not sure why but Greek doesn't feel all that comfortable but still it's what I do best *shrug*.

Do you have any videos of your style? It's always interesting to see how people sling.

Kick wrote on Nov 6^th, 2020 at 3:00am:

Do you have any videos of your style?

I'll make a video tomorrow, but it's really crappy compared to what I'm seeing on here. For hunting it works for me because you control the angle of release right until you release.

Fair warning though, I'm pretty ugly and heavily tattooed.

Well I'm pretty ugly and still working on the heavily tattooed part :D

I solely use overhand and turkey style. I have used some other before but these two have been so ingrained in me that I can't remember using anything else. Which is bad because I am completely incapable of handling any style that requires you to shift the movement of the stone from one plane to another or rotate the pouch along the way. I got hooked on those two because the projectile moves in line with your target the entire time. Very easy. 

Really want to learn balearic at some time, or some other rotating style. Also greek, byzantine and apache.

I swear that I have used the turkey style since last summer without knowing what it was (I only just watched Kick's video). In my version I hold my arm straight up, elbow to the head with the pouch at my back. I simply wanted to find the very most simple style that was the reminiscent of throwing something with your hand.

My version in that video is pretty rough. I should do a proper video showing all the styles as I do them. Of course it's as it gets colder and wetter that I have all the best sling video ideas...

I don't dance around. The less movement the better and often can't choose footing. The horizontal plane is the most important to me.

Animals move in a 2D plane. Get that right and you optimise your chance of hitting them. You might miss the one you're aiming at and get the one beside it, or behind it. But they don't stack on top of each other, grow taller or sink into the ground. So get it wrong and it's a guaranteed miss. I've had dogs bolt over a couple of metres straight into a poorly shot stones path. But I've never seen one jump 2 metres into the air to get hit.

If the vertical plane is more important for some reason (shooting through a gap, or a nice line of piglets heading away etc,.) then I just throw it like a stone.

https://youtu.be/QQfQYvS-QII

When I sling, it is still either balearic or f8. Used to be pretty good with greek. Should try it again.