Do you prefer to spin & swing the sling around more than once before taking a shot or do you prefer to sling with 1 rotation or less?

I mainly sling with a short sling (27”) and personally see no reason to pre rotate. On a long sling I can see the advantages.

spin

If by spin you mean rotor, no I’m not a big fan. Technically on my side arm I use 2ish full rotations but it’s always the same movement every time and is just enough to get the cords as tight as possible and ready to throw. Basically the Byzantine with a little extra.

This is really hard for me to answer. I think I do prefer to spin it a few times then hit, but it seems recently I'm far more accurate with Greek than helicopter sooooo... I don't know :D

For a while I've used three rotations before the throw.  I've been experimenting with two rotations.  I like it, but it still makes the throw feel rushed.

Rotating the stone is useful for two reasons, it allows one to gauge and adapt to the weight of the projectile before the throw (important for inconsistent projectiles), as well as have the benefit of the projectile already being in motion for the sake of power and fluidity.

I've tried both, but I primarily practice with no extra rotations. I don't see an advantage. For a few weeks I tried balearic style and was getting pretty accurate with it. Then I switched back to byzantine and was even more accurate, so I stopped spinning the sling.

I spin when using stones of different weights.  I have also caught myself rushing the shot and just added a couple of spins to start over. 

Using side arm, not usually.

Bill Skinner wrote on May 28^th, 2020 at 1:27pm:

I have also caught myself rushing the shot and just added a couple of spins to start over.

I do this on occasion as well.

spin for distance - but it adds nothing to target shooting.

Curious Aardvark wrote on May 28^th, 2020 at 2:36pm:

spin for distance - but it adds nothing to target shooting.

I've never actually been able to throw further by spinning, in fact, the opposite.  If its not obvious, not a fan of the spin.

Alex das sehe ich ganz anders.
Es ist mühselig es immer wieder zu erklären. Klar kann ich auf kurze Distanz das drehen weglassen. Dann kann ich aber auch einfach werfen.

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
Whether I spin or not, my throwing motion is pretty much the same.

Archaic Arms wrote on May 28^th, 2020 at 12:50pm:

Rotating the stone is useful for two reasons, it allows one to gauge and adapt to the weight of the projectile before the throw (important for inconsistent projectiles), as well as have the benefit of the projectile already being in motion for the sake of power and fluidity.

I personally find that with practice you can gauge the weight of the stone with only one rotation, and I don't think that there's any real difference in power  by adding more.

That brings up an interesting point Greenjay.  How many rotations does it take before it becomes a spin?  Morphy mention using approximately two rotations.  As do I.  But these rotations are part of an overall sequence of motions.

Sometimes I get the sling spinning, and just keep it moving until I feel like going into the throw.  But this isn't often, and just when playing around.  Never when target slinging.

  I like to spin or rotate most of the time.  It gives me a moment to orient myself and to get the feel of the projectile in the sling. 

Greenjay wrote on May 29^th, 2020 at 11:44am:

I personally find that with practice you can gauge the weight of the stone with only one rotation, and I don't think that there's any real difference in power by adding more.

When you say one rotation, do you mean one full rotation before the windup and throw?

I used to do the Greek style for quite a while, but it order to throw powerfully The hand holding the stone had to give it a bit of 'kick' to speed it up before release. Was never able to gauge the weight of the projectile properly as one applies force almost as soon as the stone is released from the hand. However I can see if one threw lightly with the style they may be able to gauge it a bit better. Upon switching to Balearic, my range and accuracy improved quite a bit (I throw inconsistent river stones).
But if what you are doing works for you, stick with it by all means.

I usually spin once underhand to "get a feel" for the weight of the particular stone, (Which may or may not actually affect anything) and then do an Apache with a single overhand spin.

I do think feeling the weight of the projectile helps, even if it's just working out (or "feeling" out I guess) how much power to put into the shot.

"When you say one rotation, do you mean one full rotation before the windup and throw?"

A rotation as a part of Byzantine style.

Ps how do you Mark a quote.

I think if a rotor works for you that’s all that matters.

For me though I only see two uses for rotors. One, if you’re forced to use inconsistent ammo where you actually need to gauge the weight and two if you are hunting game that are in cover. One person maintains the rotor while the other flushes the game. As soon as the game bolts you can get the shot off.

Gauging weight though with rotors is sort of like using extra long arrows when you have primitive arrows of differing spines. Maybe it’s a bandaid for a less than ideal situation but better to avoid the situation in the first place if you can.

Your examples are good Morphy.  I remember experiencing the second one when we were doing the Pendulum Challenge.  The rotor was started, (thanks for providing the term, I wasn't familiar with it), and the throw was made when the target was in the desired location.

I have the video of that here if anyone is curious and hasn't seen it, https://youtu.be/Z65CWWAWj7Q.

On some of the throws I go through quite a few rotations before making the throw.  Just waiting for the position of the target and the rotation of the throw to line up.

Greenjay wrote on May 30^th, 2020 at 9:12pm:

"When you say one rotation, do you mean one full rotation before the windup and throw?" A rotation as a part of Byzantine style. Ps how do you Mark a quote.

In that case I agree with you. I think "Byzantine" does indeed give enough time to guage the weight of the projectile. Logically rotating might guage it a bit more though, perhaps at the cost of a worn out wrist down the line ;)

I just use the Quote button to the right of that button, and then write underneath.

To mark a specific part, highlight the bit you want then click Mark & Quote.

joe_meadmaker wrote on May 31^st, 2020 at 12:47am:

Your examples are good Morphy.  I remember experiencing the second one when we were doing the Pendulum Challenge.  The rotor was started, (thanks for providing the term, I wasn't familiar with it), and the throw was made when the target was in the desired location. I have the video of that here if anyone is curious and hasn't seen it, https://youtu.be/Z65CWWAWj7Q. On some of the throws I go through quite a few rotations before making the throw.  Just waiting for the position of the target and the rotation of the throw to line up.

How have I never seen this video?? That was excellent slinging man! And the orientation of the camera directly behind the path of the projectile makes for a great shot. Yes that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Rotors are really good for that. Even if I don’t use them much myself there’s no denying the ability to have your sling ready for an instant shot has advantages.

This was the same idea I was tinkering with years ago when I was working on the “Overshoulder” throw. Which is a no rotor instant throw, like the Apache but faster to get off once in the position. Also same idea behind the Semisling.

Are you still making videos Joe? I didn’t have a chance to look through your channel. Think I have a new channel to subscribe to.  [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif]

Thanks man!  Yep, still doing videos.  Usually every two or three weeks, but no particular schedule so sometimes it's a little longer.  Most are for the Online Challenge topic.  And those are mixed in with other ideas as I have them.  I've got two in the works that I'm really excited about.  But the first of those is probably a couple weeks out yet.

Kick wrote on May 31^st, 2020 at 5:54am:

To mark a specific part, highlight the bit you want then click Mark & Quote.

Yeah, tried that but it still doesn't work,should mention I'm using a kindle fire so maybe that's why I'm having trouble?

Oh maybe. I've noticed it doesn't work on my phone, only on the laptop.

One rotation is still a spin.  Just sayin'.... ;D

Currently I've settled on simply using both. I use the diagonal overhand cast with rotor with a shorter and slightly thicker sling of an arms length long for target practice and accuracy, with a preference for ball shaped stones or spherical clay shot. I use the tight grip as it is very secure with rotations. My accuracy this way feels the best as it follows a very instinctive throwing motion. But using this sling and this projectile feels subpar for distance

But for distance I will use a different sling and style, I will use a powerful full body Greek cast with a very thin sling and a very wide grip, with the sling being the length of my extended arm to almost the opposite shoulder. The lack of rotations means I can get very good pouch angles with the extrem thin slings, using a sidearm release with a straight arm (first the hip, followed by the torso, and then primarily the shoulder, then followed by the arm.)  The distance I achieve is greater than anything I have reached ( around 220 meters so far with 60-80 gram elongated pebbles on flat ground,with sea level altidue and a side wind.) The general ammo I would use for this sling is sub 100 gram elongated pebbles, or lead and clay biconicals or tear drops.
But using this sling and this way of throwing feels sub par for short distance target practice as it is not the way we throw naturally, but the distance I get is doubled compared to my target sling.

There are a couple reasons I choose not to spin (aka, spin only once), both relating to how I learned. One is that it tires out your arm a bit. While this isn't a big deal for many stones slingers use, I learned on around 150 - 200 gram stones (sometimes bigger). Plenty of slingers do use these stones and also spin, but I have wimpy arms and prefer to cut the corners I can. The other reason is hesitation. I find that when I'm spinning something, I hesitate while trying to find the right moment to throw. With no spin, there is no hesitation because there is no timing with your spin. You sling or you don't. This is more of a problem if you are overthinking slinging, I don't struggle with this really anymore. But this could apply to beginners, so it might be helpful to learn with no spin.

I don't think any of this really matters if you get good enough. I think Jaegoor has mentioned that rabbits or something don't pay attention to the spinning, so it might be a way to cut down on the time of a slinging motion for hunting.

Some wild rabbits are really stupid, other kinds of rabbit or hare will sprint away at the seeing just slight motion from a hundred meters

Last night I was slinging at a target with a simple 1-2-3 rotor and then diagonal overhand cast (3 rotors in 3 counts then cast on the third count). I think this is the way for the rotor, instill in yourself a select certain amount of turns and stick with it instead of spinning it around a number of times randomly. The counting to 3 and then throw on the third might also help with clearing the mind from distractions

helicopter spin before release, personally. Gets me in the zone, and adds a bit of extra exercise too 😝

I like this demonstration of Greek style.. I do similar
https://youtu.be/e12pRrHitJ0
I have to coil my body backwards for a distance cast.

As j stated in regards to hunting variability is from one end of the spectrum to the other.

As a bow hunter I can say in my own experience that rabbits can just lay low and “hide” or sprint as fast as they can and everything in between.
One property I hunt if the rabbits smell hear or see you and they’re are out of there faster than anything. But I hunted one spot one time and the rabbits there would have an arrow barely miss them and just continue on grazing , allowing another shot. Hunting is so variable in that way.

The hares around where we used to live were very acclimated to humans and even dogs. You could get within 3m and they wouldn't move. I even spun an empty sling above my head and they did mostly run off, but it would have been very possible to hit one. Birds as well I have seen be completely fearless.

So true. My experience with rabbits is they are nuts at the sanest of times. Rabbits basically are the prey version of cats when it comes to the nonsense they do.


As for spin or no spin... geez. Hard question.

Now Im starting to wonder if one could use a thick, stiff sling designed specifically for something like the apache to get a good throw.

I mean...theoretically there should be some kind of benefit to no spin throws like the apache.

   Apache gives you a very quick release that doesn't give game a chance to react, of course.  And it's reasonably accurate. Its drawback is range.  I can get twice as much distance with other styles. 

I spin the sling for a couple of reasons, but the number of rotations depends on whether I'm trying to throw fast or for maximum accuracy.
I think it was Vegetius that said experienced slingers do one rotation before throwing. The first part of this video is my interpretation of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3j2IH7AlNE&lc=UgyV_6-wLEdnWY-IeSF4AaABAg
When I want more precision (i.e targets at a further distance), I do more rotations to relax into the right position.

I use both Greek without spin and Byzantine and Balearic style

@albion Can you also get those balls to fly straight? I did it with a longer Balearic sling, no side curvature on tennisball at all + side arm style. That blew my mind

yeah it's sort of horses for courses.
I do windups for distance slinging, but not for most things.

You don't really gain anything with a short to medium sling.

But with a long distance sling the gradual speed buildup does really help.