All of the slinging styles, w/ one glaring exception, have names that evoke the history and the culture of slinging: Balearic, Greek, Figure 8, Apache, Byzantine, and Pirouette.  Even the dreaded "turkey style" (which sounds like some poorly executed country western line dance as in "hee-haw, now everybody strut...turkey style!" actually, maybe I am on to something here - if my Turkey Style vid goes viral, I will share the profits w/ everyone here) (sorry for the digression!) fits in.

As stated in the Subject line - the glaring exception is of course Helicopter.  How is it that we name a slinging style that probably pre-dates written history, after a powered flight machine invented in 1939?

Insofar as we are the preeminent source of sling knowledge, we have the privilege of calling things what we choose.  Who will join me in my humble campaign to rename Helicopter?

Is anyone else troubled by this?

Would I do better to devote my time to practice (as my slinging vids demonstrate - I can certainly use more practice!) and not worry about nomenclature?

For those who wish to join me, what are your suggestions for renaming Helicopter into something archaic?

Where here in the forum posted the most comprehensive video catalog of various styles ? If there is one, please show it to me. If it does not exist, it must be created. There are questions not only about the style of "helicopter", but also about some other styles.   So far I have used this directory to identify styles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cIgoZ7wNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj0r3VqWP4w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WADQStF-Rq4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBh2B3oeKtM
If not all styles are described here, then maybe we need to use a different directory ?

Well how about every style being Byzantine if you don't multi rotor. That's the one I struggle with .

Where is the most complete catalog of styles, suitable to check with him in each case? Why is there a debate about the name of styles ? This means that the directory does not exist ?

Tornado?

:-X :'( warum schon wieder dieses Thema? Habt ihr lange weile?
Es gibt nur drei Stile.  Alles andere sind nur Variationen dieser drei Stile.

Jaegoor: Aussie (RIP) listed the following styles:  FIGURE 8, HELICOPTER STYLE, SIDEARM, APACHE STYLE, UNDERARM, GREEK STYLE, BALEARIC STYLE, DOUBLE FIGURE, 8 DOUBLE SIDEARM, BYZANTINE STYLE, PIROUETTE

Can you help me understand the 3 styles?  Maybe it is better to say that there are 3 categories and that the various styles fit into one of the 3?

I am working on a presentation for the anthropology club at our local university and I noticed that "helicopter" does not fit w/ the other names.  I did not realize that this was previously discussed.  Do you have a link?

Bambula: try this link:

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1260271797 - scroll past the descriptions of how to make a slingshot and you will see Aussie's list of styles and links to videos depicting them.

All: maybe name it for other people that used slings i.e. Assyrian, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Aztec?

Or to be consistent w/ some archeological finds that may relate to slings (baton de commadement, baton perce), use the French hélicoptère?

Tint you got my vote for Tornado style

Helicopter works for me.

It's discriptive: exactly like fig 8 and pirouette.

It's derived ' spiral wing' in greek.
Although  helicopter is french :noidea:

Quote:

Etymology Borrowed from French hélicoptère, from Ancient Greek ἕλιξ (hélix, “spiral”) + πτερόν (pterón, “wing”).

There is no common directory. people seem to be making more daft names up every damn week.

Byzantine and turkey - great examples.
Of daft names - that is :-)

Curious Aardvark wrote on Oct 7^th, 2018 at 12:40pm:

Helicopter works for me. It's discriptive: exactly like fig 8 and pirouette. It's derived ' spiral wing' in greek. Although  helicopter is french :noidea: Quote: Etymology Borrowed from French hélicoptère, from Ancient Greek ἕλιξ (hélix, “spiral”) + πτερόν (pterón, “wing”). There is no common directory. people seem to be making more daft names up every damn week. Byzantine and turkey - great examples. Of daft names - that is :-)

  :thumb:

There are only three styles. O - S - U  All the others are varieties within those styles. Look at all the variations. The stone (projectile) will always be released (catapulted). Even while doing a spin, you will release sidehand. The many styles here discussed in the forum are confusing. Somebody made himself a name by using his own style and name it after himself. Bambula is trying this at the moment. Apaches had slings. But did they have their own style? How do we know? How do we find proof of this? It all boils down to the three basic techniques mentioned above.

I've never understood what Byzantine style is :D

Some people like to say that the first two professions in history were the prostitute and the priest, but the first job was actually the taxonomist. The first man, Adam, spent his days naming the animals, and humans have been fascinated by categorizing and classifying everything ever since then.

Here’s my $.02:
1. What matters most is the trajectory, the projectile stability, the speed, and the spin at the release. How many times you whirl the rock around your head may matter when it comes to proprioception and muscle memory, but in the end, you either hit the target or you miss, and that has more to do with practice than which particular style you choose. I don’t care what label you put on it. If you can hit the target, you’re doing it right even if you don’t know what to call the style or your style isn’t “pure”.

2. You could go crazy with names to classify styles, or you could just define a set of parameters that describes the throw, such as the angle of the swing and release relative to the direction of the throw. For example, imagine that you are punching at the center of a clock when you throw... the sling would pass through 12:00 with Apache or overhand, and about 1:30 or 2:00 with a figure-8 (unless you’re left handed).  Balearic might release at about 4:30, and so on.   Then we can all argue about what clock position is “correct” for the release, but it’ll be clear to everyone what the form looks like at the release, no matter how you swing it before that.

I likes helicopter, it describes this variant perfectly well. But it does leave open the question of the release: it is sideways, or a downwards slash ?

a helicopter windup can lead to either a sideways release OR a vertical release.
Jaegoor actually uses a vertical release - but I noticed this year he was teaching the kids in mallorca to use a sideways release.
Sneaky ;-)

As far as naming things after a traditional clock face goes.
Apparently that's a dead topic.

Kids these days don't use standard clock dials.  Watches will soon mostly be 'smart' - but there will be helicopters for a few years yet :-)

When the helicopters are replaced by gravity vehicles or turbo-fan engines. Then we can Call it the Sycamore style.

No matter what technology does - there will (hopefully) always be sycamore trees with whirly blade seed pods :-)

Actually, Sycamore style sounds better to me than helicopter for some reason  ;D

Maple keys twirl faster  :D

Sycamore sounds good to me as well.  It evokes the classical sound of other slinging styles.

Jaegoor helped me understand a basic concept - O S U - as in overhand sidearm and underhand.  The three styles that I use, Sycamore (helicopter) Balearic, and pirouette, are all sidearm styles.  For whatever reason, I really struggle w/ the overhand styles, i.e. figure 8, and I do not generate sufficient power underhand. So basically, I am a sidearm slinger.

I recently taught archery to some members of an anthropology club at the local university.  I brought some slings and without showing the students anything more that the retention and release cords, I let them have at it w/ tennis balls.  They each threw w/ variants of either S or O.

Borrowing from archery - there are 3 basic bow styles - recurve, longbow, and compound.  There are also a lot of variants (under recurve for example - you have takedown, one piece, Olympic, hunting, ILF, DAS/Hoyt, horsebow)

Blue Raja wrote on Oct 19^th, 2018 at 10:16am:

The three styles that I use, Sycamore (helicopter) Balearic, and pirouette, are all sidearm styles.  For whatever reason, I really struggle w/ the overhand styles, i.e. figure 8, and I do not generate sufficient power underhand. So basically, I am a sidearm slinger.

I can’t seem to get the hand of overhand styles either.

Overhand I really struggled with but it seems recently my overhand is better than my sidearm. I don't ever really use underhand.

I will keep working at it, then.

I try to release with a sort of downward slash but find the transition a bit awkward. If I'm slinging full-on, then the release comes out side.

Quote:

It evokes the classical sound of other slinging styles.

you mean the daft, made up names :-)

Sidearm and overhand have different applications.

basically if you are ONLY throwing at a fixed target that is always the same distance away. It doesn't matter what style you use.
It's just down to repetition.

If - however - you live in a world where you are more likely to sling at different targets at different distances, then a vertical release is essential.

huh - why ?

I'm glad you asked :-)

To adjust distance aim with sidearm you not only need to add more or less power you also have to change your release point - as you are throwing at an angle to the target.

With a vertical release - your release point remains the same you just need to adjust for power.
Vertical release is the closest you get to being able to aim a sling.

With a sidearm release you can miss the target in a full 360 range.

With a vertical release you should either miss above or below the target. Never or rarely  to the side.

This also pans out in shooting at a fixed target.

In mallorca I pretty much only ever miss above or below the target -  and it's just down to lack of practice and the fact that I don't have consistent ammo.
I just can't be arsed lugging a bag of clay balls around with me.
It's why next year I'll be concentrating on the tennis ball comps.

The balearic guys can miss to the point that they score on the neighbouring target - this happens at least once during most competitions.
They also miss above, below and to either side.

Also set them at a target that's over 20 metres away and they generally struggle to get anywhere near it.

Most of them can make the distance, but after years slinging at a fixed distance, they really struggle to adjust to anything over 20 metres.
If they used a vertical release - it would not be anywhere as much of an issue.

That said - sidearm is great for pure distance where all you have to hit is an entire woodland or an advancing army :-)

 

Agreed^

I like vertical whether it be figure-8 or Apache. I give all the credit to people that can remain consistent with side arm. When I was using side arm I was either on fire or way off. There seemed to be little in between. When I was using vertical in the form of figure 8 even my misses were relatively consistent in the form of forgetting to aim above the target for longer shots which eventually dug a divot out in front of my ground target.

Side arm was faster but as they say in archery, "A slow hit is better than a fast miss."

Not to say that it's impossible to hit with it, I'm just too lazy to put in that much work.

I agree with both of you :D

I'll put my hand up to be the odd one out , I find both vertical and horizontal releases have a pluses and minuses with accuracy consistently , let's say we have a cross with the target in the middle , I think my horizontal release would hit the cross bar mainly when missing the target , but not very often the bottom post , if I went vertical I would hit the top and bottom posts but  not the cross bar. At a reasonable distance anyway. I don't find much difference just that figure 8 has a more repeatable starting position so it seems more consistent. Just my feeling on it . Slow hit is better than a slow miss ha ha

Ich erklärte hier schon einmal Overhand und Sidehand.  Bei einer klassischen Overhand liegt mein Winkel bei 90°,bei Sidehand bei 180°.
Die Höhe wird korrigiert durch die Stellung des Rotors.
Im Prinzip ist es einfach. 😁.  Etwas schwieriger wird es, wenn sie speed schießen. Oder mit sehr viel Spin.  Dann werden Sie die beiden Techniken vermischen.  Auch wenn sie auf bewegliche Ziele schießen,  werden sie Techniken vermischen.
Deshalb sind diese drei Overhand, Sidehand, Underhand
Sehr wichtig zu können.  Ich beginne mit Anfänger immer mit unterhand.  Nur mit einer Drehung. Dann mit mehr Drehung.  Wichtig ist die Stellung ihrer Hüfte.  Sie Zielen nicht nur mit denn Augen.  Auch mit dem Bauch. Dann gehen Sie von einer underhand über in eine Sidehand.  Dann in Overhand.  Das schwierigste zu lernen ist das Spiel in der Hand.  Das ist sehr schwer zu erklären. 


Quote:

I already explained Overhand and Sidehand. For a classic overhand, my angle is 90 °, for sidehand 180 °. The height is corrected by the position of the rotor. In principle it is easy. 😁. It gets a bit harder when you shoot speed. Or with a lot of spin. Then you will mix the two techniques. Even if they shoot at moving targets, they will mix techniques. That's why these three overhand, sidehand, underhand Very important to be able to. I always start with underhand beginners. Only with one turn. Then with more rotation. Important is the position of her hip. They are not just aiming for the eyes. Also with the belly. Then go from an underhand to a sidehand. Then in overhand. The hardest thing to learn is the game in hand. This is very difficult to explain.

CA - yeah I mean the daft made-up names.  Like Sycamore style for example - it is part of the fun.

Unfortunately, my vertical release sends the missile straight into the ground - maybe good for hunting rabbits at close range - but not what I am after.  I sling for distance - disc golf with a tennis ball is a lot of fun.  I also enjoy launch rocks and watching them soar through the air.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions.  Very helpful

FWIW, if you use overhand with a short sling, it works really good for knocking things like atlatl darts and frisbees out of trees with tennis balls.  You can throw almost straight up.

That was  probably a lot more useful when guys on top of walls  were doing things like pouring boiling oil on the guys at the base but it still has uses... ;D

How short of a sling is needed for successful vertical slinging?

How long is a piece of string? :D I find the best sling length suggestions are ones where you use your own body as a measure. Every person has different length arms, different body proportions and then the slight variations of style which all adds up to each person making use of slings in different ways. The perfect sling length for fig 8 for me might be different for you so I would say experiment. Saying that, C_A has a good way of measuring sling length and I found the sling he sent me was a good length. It was based off my height if I remember correctly?

something like that :-)

Any length sling that can hang straight down at your side without touching the ground can be used to easily sling vertical.

That said - any sling can be used to sling vertically - just aim up :-)
It's not a function of the sling but of the slinger.

Besides Lay people who into slings like we are know what is meant by the helicopter

Curious Aardvark wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 3:15pm:

That said - any sling can be used to sling vertically - just aim up :-) It's not a function of the sling but of the slinger.

... or just stand on a table :)

What about just Helios style?  Descriptive of technique with a nod to the Greeks.  Sounds more ancient and is descriptive enough for anyone with a rudimentary understanding of Greek root words to get the reference. 

Why Helios? Because it is like a planetary orbit around the sun?

Why nod to the Greeks ?

Curious Novice wrote on Nov 15^th, 2018 at 9:25pm:

Why Helios? Because it is like a planetary orbit around the sun?

Yeah, its still has elements of the original name but sounds better in my head I guess.  I agree that Helicopter is a dumb but descriptive name. 

Thearos wrote on Nov 15^th, 2018 at 11:11pm:

Why nod to the Greeks ?

simply because they had slingers and the root word for helicopter is greek, at least that was my thought at the time.  We could nod to any other slinger culture as well but the root word just seemed more appropriate.  I could be biased though, My Grandfather came from Loukas, or Argos, can't remember which.  Soooo....It might be a biased reach but I liked it.   ;D

Helios - a nod to the sun god, actually.  But classic and descriptive.  Great idea! The Blue Raja approves!

BAMBULA wrote on Oct 6^th, 2018 at 7:53pm:

Where here in the forum posted the most comprehensive video catalog of various styles ? If there is one, please show it to me. If it does not exist, it must be created. There are questions not only about the style of "helicopter", but also about some other styles.   So far I have used this directory to identify styles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cIgoZ7wNU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj0r3VqWP4w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WADQStF-Rq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBh2B3oeKtM If not all styles are described here, then maybe we need to use a different directory ?

I strongly agree with your point.

BAMBULA wrote on Oct 6^th, 2018 at 7:53pm:

Where here in the forum posted the most comprehensive video catalog of various styles ? If there is one, please show it to me. If it does not exist, it must be created. There are questions not only about the style of "helicopter", but also about some other styles.   So far I have used this directory to identify styles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cIgoZ7wNU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj0r3VqWP4w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WADQStF-Rq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBh2B3oeKtM If not all styles are described here, then maybe we need to use a different directory ?

Imagine my surprise when I clicked on the second video and found that I myself had commented on it TEN YEARS AGO!  :D ;D

Curious Aardvark wrote on Oct 7^th, 2018 at 12:40pm:

Helicopter works for me. It's discriptive: exactly like fig 8 and pirouette. It's derived ' spiral wing' in greek. Although  helicopter is french :noidea: Quote: Etymology Borrowed from French hélicoptère, from Ancient Greek ἕλιξ (hélix, “spiral”) + πτερόν (pterón, “wing”). There is no common directory. people seem to be making more daft names up every damn week. Byzantine and turkey - great examples. Of daft names - that is :-)

As an older member, I am completely with you on this one.

Blue Raja wrote on Oct 6^th, 2018 at 7:11pm:

All of the slinging styles, w/ one glaring exception, have names that evoke the history and the culture of slinging: Balearic, Greek, Figure 8, Apache, Byzantine, and Pirouette.  Even the dreaded "turkey style" (which sounds like some poorly executed country western line dance as in "hee-haw, now everybody strut...turkey style!" actually, maybe I am on to something here - if my Turkey Style vid goes viral, I will share the profits w/ everyone here) (sorry for the digression!) fits in. As stated in the Subject line - the glaring exception is of course Helicopter.  How is it that we name a slinging style that probably pre-dates written history, after a powered flight machine invented in 1939? Insofar as we are the preeminent source of sling knowledge, we have the privilege of calling things what we choose.  Who will join me in my humble campaign to rename Helicopter? Is anyone else troubled by this? Would I do better to devote my time to practice (as my slinging vids demonstrate - I can certainly use more practice!) and not worry about nomenclature? For those who wish to join me, what are your suggestions for renaming Helicopter into something archaic?

For someone that was around when we came up with those names they were just to help us classify them so when we were talking to each other we were on the same page with each other. I really wouldn’t worry about it.  Just keep going out there and to use a term an older member MarmotHunter used “ Give local geology flying lessons !”

winkleried wrote on Jan 16^th, 2019 at 5:39pm:

a term an older member MarmotHunter used “ Give local geology flying lessons !”

I love it ;D

(A bit of a necrothread, but I see this theme popping up every now and then so I'll weigh in anyways.)

I would argue the opposite: descriptive terms are a much more logical way to go than terms that pin an arbitrary culture's name and identity to various universal throwing methods in an attempt to sound more exotic. :p

Imagine you go to Tibet and have the chance to witness some Tibetan shepherds slinging, and a couple of them liked to sling Helicopter, but preferred to use a single-rotation before throwing. Would you tell them that one of the ways that they've been slinging for generations should be called "Byzantine Style" just because in the infancy of Slinging.org's "Project Goliath", we saw a coin from Byzantium that simply depicted a slinger with a loaded sling at rest beside him, completely devoid of any context for the actual throw itself? I'm sure that wouldn't go over well.  ;)

The same thing would probably happen with the helicopter users if we switch from a descriptive term to some overtly Euro-centric Greco-Roman based term for that throw too.

The only reason we had most of these "cultural" names was the early Project Goliath days: back when information on the topic was still incredibly sparse, naming the one or two examples we found beyond basic "Underhand", "Overhand", or "Helicopter" off of whatever historic evidence we could scrape together. But now we have enough information compiled to recognize the patterns repeating everywhere, and that certain styles we thought were unique in the early days are in reality, actually rather common.

It's like with martial arts: there's only so many ways to move the body effectively. Patterns will naturally repeat as everyone independently comes to the same conclusions of what works, and what doesn't.

Descriptive terms like Helicopter/Overhand/Underhand/Sidearm are much better because those can be translated into any language and applied without weird cultural baggage brought along with it.

I mean, it's one thing to give the older and more established terms like "Greek sidearm" a pass, but it's a different matter altogether to continue arbitrary cultural names into the throw-naming lexicon despite knowing better.  :P

I'm with you Donnerschlag.  There are no clear dividing lines for styles on a continuum of motions and angles... not to mention the fact that some styles also describe motions that happen before the actual throw!  Functional names make the most sense, and even then, it would be easy to go overboard.

If we insist on classification of every little difference with current naming conventions, then we will have to create an entire lexicon of hybrid and intermediate styles too.  It starts innocently enough with things like a "helicopter sidearm", but the next thing you know, slingers will start showing up at hospitals with broken limbs and missing teeth, because they just had to try out the hot new Greek-Apache-underhand-helicopter-shark style!

... and just so that you'll never be able to get it out of your head for the rest of your life:

Greek Apache underhand helicopter shark doot doo doot doot doo doo!

(You're welcome  ;D )

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Oct 7^th, 2018 at 5:11pm:

Some people like to say that the first two professions in history were the prostitute and the priest, but the first job was actually the taxonomist. The first man, Adam, spent his days naming the animals, and humans have been fascinated by categorizing and classifying everything ever since then. Here’s my $.02: 1. What matters most is the trajectory, the projectile stability, the speed, and the spin at the release. How many times you whirl the rock around your head may matter when it comes to proprioception and muscle memory, but in the end, you either hit the target or you miss, and that has more to do with practice than which particular style you choose. I don’t care what label you put on it. If you can hit the target, you’re doing it right even if you don’t know what to call the style or your style isn’t “pure”. 2. You could go crazy with names to classify styles, or you could just define a set of parameters that describes the throw, such as the angle of the swing and release relative to the direction of the throw. For example, imagine that you are punching at the center of a clock when you throw... the sling would pass through 12:00 with Apache or overhand, and about 1:30 or 2:00 with a figure-8 (unless you’re left handed).  Balearic might release at about 4:30, and so on.   Then we can all argue about what clock position is “correct” for the release, but it’ll be clear to everyone what the form looks like at the release, no matter how you swing it before that.

It's true - To classify things is human nature (Some would even say that it's the basis of existence.) However, because of that, classification is, and always has been, subject to human purposes - For instance, what is a tomato? To the botanist, it is a fruit, since it bears seeds after its kind; to the chef, a vegetable, due to its lack of sweetness, and to the La Tomatina reveler in Buñol, it's a projectile.
(On a side note, I'd love to see how a group of slingers would do in a tomato-throwing festival!)

So, if we're gonna come up with new naming conventions for slinging styles, it's important to keep in mind what exactly we're naming them for - The historian might classify a style as being "Greek" or "Byzantine" or "Balearic" for on their presumed places of origin, while the physicist might classify someone's style as "overhand" or "underhand" or "sidearm" based on the particular style's release point.
Another side note - Why should we assume that, for instance, all ancient Greeks exclusively used the Greek style?

So, which are we? Most of us, I'm assuming, are either one or neither - Most of our style names are an ambiguous mix of both.

I think that a solid naming convention should account for all different parts of a slinging style, including the windup and maybe even the number of spins, so that anybody with a working knowledge of the terms would be able to hear the name of the style, and, never having seen it before, be able to "get the gist" of what the style might look like - The syntax could be simple:
I.) A term describing either the starting position and/or the windup.
II.) The number of "spins" (as far as it is applicable.)
III.) The release point of the style.

A helicopter style with two "spins" would be called an "overhead double-spin sidearm" to describe (A) the position, (B) the number of spins, and (C) the release point. The Greek style could be called an "overhead zero-spin overhand", while styles like Underhand and Overhand could be clarified depending on the particular nuance a particular slinger puts on it - For example, "side-body double-spin underhand" or "figure-eight triple-spin overhand" respectively. If one part of a slinging style is not adequately described by any existing terms, others may be invented to describe them, including proper names if necessary - Turkey style, which seems to begin with the sling across the back could be called the "RS-crossback zero-spin overhand," or maybe the "Turkey zero-spin overhand." The only thing needing explanation would be what "RS-crossback" or "Turkey" means, information easily supplied by knowledgeable members.

Of course, this syntax would need some tweaking to be effective - But I think that it is sound in principle. Describe the throw itself, and give users of the syntax room to describe their styles efficiently and simply.

Oh my goodness - I started typing my response back when there was only one page of this thread. I got left in the dust real bad this time ;D

Well another name might be the David and Goliath
Considering most people associate the helicopter
Style with that mythical battle
Wich in my opinion cause a lot of the learning
Curve problems. Whenever I teach someone
I have undo that preconceived notion.
And teach then the underhand and overhand release
Infact I personally don't think the helicopter
Is even a throwing style. But a wind-up for extra long
Slings.

I have no problem with the general names that are already in use. We classify viruses often by where they appeared even though it tells us virtually nothing useful about the virus itself. Descriptive names give the throwing styles more of their own invidual flavor imo. I may be in the minority on this but that’s just how I feel.

The main classification system is quite simple.
Slingers like to over complicate things :-)

It's based on the release point.
So an overarm/head throw is one where the missile is released ABOVE shoulder height.

Sidearm throw is where the missile is release between the hip and shoulder.

Underarm is where the missile is released below the hip.

Everything else is the windup and generally based on what it looks like.

Yopu pretty much can't get a byzentine sidearm. The byzantium throw is an over arm relase preceeded by a single helicoptor (over head) rotation.
It is actually very distinctive and effective.
But NOT an actual helicopter throw.
The actual dynamics and how it generates power are completely different :-)

A helocopter throw is one where multiple rotations are made over youir head. That's it.
release can be a sidearm, vertical over head or horizontal overhead.

The simplest way to classify a throw is to append the word: 'variation' :-)

To the three general classifications.

My general purpose throw is a fig8 windup to a vertical overhand release.

OR 'Overhand variation'.
:-)

I don’t know CA. That may be too simplistic. If I’m throwing shark style and holding the release cord with my teeth, then my shoulder may drop below my waist during the helicopter windup even if my retention cord is above my head. Under these conditions your entire taxonomy goes out the window the moment I open my mouth.

Can we, as a group, settle the taxonomy of slinging styles and all contribute to the names. I’m also happy with most of the names we commonly use but it really is an ongoing subject. I think we need a easy explanation for the new guys/girls

In all seriousness I think the names are fine too.  It doesn’t really matter what label you put on it.

I feel like some style names are more or less okay, but I definitely think that the arbitrary cultural names are a bit..., Well, arbitrary. They make things annoying, in my opinion. We can't even assume that, say, all Byzantine army slingers even used Byzantine style - I'd imagine that slinging was as variable then as it was now. It's possible that the really wide variability nowadays is from the convention of styles on the Internet.

Personally I feel like there's only four factors to identify any effective throw/style on:

1. The plane the sling rotates on. (i.e. horizontal, vertical, or diagonal.)
2. The pitching motion with their arm. (Overhand, sidearm, or underhand)
3. The number of rotations. (Single-rotation vs multiple rotations)

#1 and #2 seem to cover 90% of it, so I like to categorize based on these two, with a dash of #3 if someone needs that clarification.

Names like "helicopter", "vertical" or "Figure-8" do exactly this because they perfectly describe what they are doing. Names like "Commanche" style (which was literally just a figure-8) do not.

I'm with Morphy that what we currently have established is good enough as it is, and was not seriously suggesting we rework what we currently got.
I'm just saying that if we were to bother going out of our way and start renaming styles, it should be in a more systematic fashion describing the actual motion involved instead of that old convoluted and cringy tribal name direction IMO.  :P

I like that criteria, I think that really takes care of a lot of the styles .
When the names are over complicated or too simple it can be hard to understand what’s going on.

I mean, some of the tribal/cultural named throws are okay (even though the origin of the throw's name may be highly dubious) because they address a weirdly unique throw that would be too long-winded to explain otherwise: like "Greek" describing a single-rotation helicopter with a little kick-start at the beginning from the off-hand. It's become more a shorthand or slang for a complex and unique package.

I feel like this was just a very natural way to begin a throw and saw use with lots of different throws, and the exaggerated pose just looked cool when copy/pasted into hyper-stylized pottery and currency motifs. But I'll be damned if I have to type "single-rotation helicopter with a little kick-start at the beginning from the off-hand" every single time I need to mention such a popular throw, so "Greek style" it is. :P

The trick is finding that sweet spot in the middle that keep both the simple and the complex succinct and thus beginner-friendly.  :)

That's true - I think it would be useful to use proper names in some cases to describe certain quirks in the styles. It'd be difficult to refer to Turkey Style if you had to use "RS-crossback zero-rotation overhand" every single time. Hitting that sweet spot might be difficult, though. I'd have to try and compile an example list of potential style names, and try to get the syntax short, sweet, and beginner-friendly. Big sequences of words can scare newbies to any field.

lobohunter wrote on Aug 5^th, 2020 at 1:42am:

Well another name might be the David and Goliath Considering most people associate the helicopter Style with that mythical battle Wich in my opinion cause a lot of the learning Curve problems. Whenever I teach someone I have undo that preconceived notion. And teach then the underhand and overhand release Infact I personally don't think the helicopter Is even a throwing style. But a wind-up for extra long Slings.

I've had no issues teaching helicopter once I divorce people from the idea of twirling as fast as you can and letting go of the knot at just the right time. :-x

I teach them the sling is an extension of the throwing arm and that it's the actual throwing motion you make with your arm that decides the power of the shot, not the twirls. I basically just explain it like, "The twirls are just a convenience to keep the strings taught before you throw. You don't even need the twirls! Once you get the hang of it, you can just go right into the throw itself with no windup. Unless you're using a really long sling, the whole twirling thing is more of a comfort thing, and entirely optional."

I like describing it as a soft version of a Chuck-It to newbies. Anyone who's used those doggie-ball throwers usually has a little lightbulb moment and has a noticeable improvement immediately after.

I suggest calling it the 'Whirlygiggle'

Alles fachleute hier.  ;)

Jaegoor wrote on Nov 8^th, 2020 at 4:13pm:

Alles fachleute hier.  ;)

;D