Hello just make a 25m challenge, how many shots do you need for smash 3 watermelons?
I challenge you! Hehe
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0a_IHHcw6do

Reminds me of

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1253927454/0#0

lol I guess we'll find out in a few weeks :-)

Really looking forward to slinging with louis :thumb:

I can say that with a balearic sling and style - I'd never hit a melon.
With my slings and style. Dunno how many shots but I'd definitely hit it - eventually :-)

I'm currently printing the world's most hi-tech sling pouch from a urethane based industrial rubber (%95 done).
It's going to be an interesting contrast :-) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMw7rdHzsEw ; Bow


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA9qx-jFmFc :P :P :P


Lui is currently injured

Challenge accepted

I'm so inaccurate that I will not take the challenge. :)
But otherwise sometimes need to throw a watermelon.

Back in the summer, I could keep some fairly tight groupings with consistent ammo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK4XmTTD_Ck

My trajectory isn't as flat as his at 25m but after some practice at that distance I could probably hone in enough to hit a melon after awhile. He is still a dang good slinger though.

Good precision, but in fact for the world best slinger I would even expect more, something like 100% from 25 m.  ;D

I've been following Mr. Livermore for years now. He is the best. Slinging different shaped rocks, even if they are round is extremely difficult. The fact that he threw about 6 rocks before nailing the target dead on each is proof of his greatness. I'm not quite that good but I'm close. Anyone that laughs or mocks his abilities is an inexperienced poopy talker. That's all.

You rock Mr. Livermore, literally ;)

You can also tell he is good and consistent cause all his shots are tightly grouped. He's sending them where he wants them,  and with authorité!

Agreed, he's got some power behind those shots, and he's putting them in probably a 1 foot group at distance.  Most people have trouble shooting a handgun that accurately. 

-Jenrick

In terms of accuracy and power I don't know of anyone better than Mr. Livermore.

Jenrick wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 3:36pm:

Agreed, he's got some power behind those shots, and he's putting them in probably a 1 foot group at distance.  Most people have trouble shooting a handgun that accurately.  -Jenrick

That's a cool fact! I might have to look into how accurate people are with other weapons in comparison

Lui is really a very good slinger. However, there are better. Please review the list of federatio balear. I do not understand the euphoria.

Jaegoor wrote on Feb 16^th, 2015 at 12:33am:

Lui is really a very good slinger. However, there are better. Please review the list of federatio balear. I do not understand the euphoria.

Jaegoor, I suppose we are out of the loop. We have all watched the History channel film on David and Goliath. In it he is called the champ and the best. I guess we are all just going by that.
So who is number 1 on the list??????

Accuracy is great, but i'm at least as amazed how powerful the shots are with such a short sling. Would you make a destruction video with 1+meter long sling?

http://www.tirdefona.org/wordpress/?page_id=1874


Juan Caballero was the winner of the international tournament 2011

Do not get me wrong. Lui is a very good Slinger. I really like him. For me he is a gentlemen Slinger.


I learned a lot from Jaume Darder. He is also a multiple champion. And of Juano Caballero. There is one Slinger from Soller. Nikola. He is also Fantastic

Nikola

---

In my opinion is very easy give names, for me one of the best ones is Jose Ramon Garcia, very regular slinger, but for example last season, jaume, Juanjo or Nicolas didn’t get to the final for the last Balearic season, you can be training very much  and not be in classification for the last round of the final,  but then is only one day, a couple of hours, and maybe that time you go with no training, but you feel good, the sling in your hands has  a very good feeling and the stones are perfect weight, and you become the first. I think is much more pleasure be the best of the league of teams, that is six competitions during the year, and there is five people in the team , over there you see ho is the best, the last one Menorca team was the champion in front of Mallorca, you can d teams as you like, for example Mallorca team are only senior competitors, but us we are two seniors, one women and two kids. I think that’s is the top of you can win here on the islands. But….. why do you sling? I don’t sling for be the number one, I do it because its my life, I’m 30 years old and I have been 21 years slinging, I prefer much more a training day with all the slingers than not a competition, in fact here in the island we are like a family I mean wen one of us throwing to the target, there is lot of respect, and after the five shootings is typical the others come and try to rectificate your possible fails. Why do I sling? Because I like it, it’s for me and if I can help others slingers much better, I go to schools to teach and show all about the sling and slinging, if not this can be forgotten , its our culture.
And if not I  can break watermelons that if much fun, hehe

jaegoor - balearic-slinger is luis/louis.
Just thought I'd mention it before you really insult him :-)

Well, you're still a great face for the sport Mr. Livermore!
Jaegoor, thanks for the link, I need to brush up on my Spanish apparently lol
As for myself, I'm getting a watermelon asap!

I want that you do not get me wrong. lui is an excellent slinger. But there are some very good slinger more. Nikola is no longer the youngest. But he is best fit.He is a very likeable Slinger. Lui is also so
::) ;D

Juano Caballero and Jaegoor 2010 Engen Germany

---

balearic-sling wrote on Feb 17^th, 2015 at 5:47am:

In my opinion is very easy give names, for me one of the best ones is Jose Ramon Garcia, very regular slinger, but for example last season, jaume, Juanjo or Nicolas didn’t get to the final for the last Balearic season, you can be training very much  and not be in classification for the last round of the final,  but then is only one day, a couple of hours, and maybe that time you go with no training, but you feel good, the sling in your hands has  a very good feeling and the stones are perfect weight, and you become the first. I think is much more pleasure be the best of the league of teams, that is six competitions during the year, and there is five people in the team , over there you see ho is the best, the last one Menorca team was the champion in front of Mallorca, you can d teams as you like, for example Mallorca team are only senior competitors, but us we are two seniors, one women and two kids. I think that’s is the top of you can win here on the islands. But….. why do you sling? I don’t sling for be the number one, I do it because its my life, I’m 30 years old and I have been 21 years slinging, I prefer much more a training day with all the slingers than not a competition, in fact here in the island we are like a family I mean wen one of us throwing to the target, there is lot of respect, and after the five shootings is typical the others come and try to rectificate your possible fails. Why do I sling? Because I like it, it’s for me and if I can help others slingers much better, I go to schools to teach and show all about the sling and slinging, if not this can be forgotten , its our culture. And if not I  can break watermelons that if much fun, hehe

I agree. Its a way of life.

I would love to have grown up in a culture where slinging is well known sport.

In Finland, slinging is childish. Fortunately, I'm childish. :D

Timpa, it's not just childish where I live, it's down right eccentric.  But that's OK, I've been called a lot worse than just eccentric....

So I rewatched the video and just noticed how large those stones were. Very impressive speed for such large stones and short sling. Mr. Livermore do you know the average weight stones you were using?

I could shoot all day at that watermelon and would still miss

haha theoros.. Yes the stones Mr. Livermore used were large and his sling looked short.. but the dude is pretty big. It's like Goliath's turn to use the sling o no!

Hello people, the stones are 200-250g and as you see a bit bigger than a normal egg.

Balearic slinging competition is just that.

It is not a true measure of slinging ability, just ability in that particular competition and within it's parameters.

It would be like saying "John Smith won the 25m pistol competition with a 1911, so he is the best shooter in the world"

Just wanted to clear that up…  ;)

challenge accepted, i just got a camera and a tripod, first video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcZmT02tqfA
and i can post a video possibly soon depending on the weather, its cold here.  :)
i'll probably put it up around the 1st
the distance i'm at is around 15m

Sorry but i wasn't able to record a 25m challenge video, however i was able to record a short video, of me slinging for power with tennis balls in a gym. here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktDQlzlIS6c&feature=youtu.be

Is there a reason for facing backwards and spinning?

I know slinging is an individual preference type thing, but have you tried a regular fig-8? I think you would see a marked improvement in accuracy.

i'm facing backwards so that i know where the sling is, so that i can get in sync with it, that way i can lift my leg at the right time, and get the maximum power, and the spinning is also for power, because of static and kinetic friction, kinetic friction is less than static friction, so that means that when a sling is spinning, it is easier to move to a higher speed, than when you would start from no spin.  :)
also yes i have tried figure eight, in fact i used to use that all the time, and i still do, but for power, this style has way more then any other style that i've seen, for a short sling. since this style ends with the same hand position it has the same accuracy as the original figure eight, just more power because you aren't starting from standing still, so it's easier to get the ammo moving. again this video was not made for accuracy, it was made for power, so i get your points but, the problem is, is that you haven't seen this styles accuracy.  ;)

I quite like it

thanks Thearos, that means a lot.  :)

It does not seem to be water melon season in Norway right now.  If I get the chance I`ll practice on a football.

Blowgunman123, at that distance, with a proper fig-8 and tennis balls, you should be able to put them all into the blue square in front of you.

You are facing away from the target, spinning your sling rapidly, and then turning to look at the last minute, slowing your rotation to near stall speed, and then rotating into a normal fig-8.

Try taking your left arm and extending it toward the target, drop the pouch and keep it pointing at the target until its time to bring your left elbow down for power.

You have the basic mechanics, but all that spinning and facing away from the target is not an advantage, its a hinderance.

Just my .02…take it for what its worth.

interesting tips. I have a few of them. figure 8 is not an ultimatum. when using this method. learn to stand on two legs. A sling can hold only a certain power. This power is dependent on the length of the sling, sling material of ammunition, used.

I'd say the facing away is to get the longest trajectory on the sling development (a characteristic of power shots), and the spinning is just to have the sling in movement before the final release so as not to have inertia to overcome. The idea here is to use the power shot to get flat trajectory and hence accuracy; the problem is that the body spin through 180 degrees, if not sufficiently controlled, will lead to inconsistencies in release orientation (and hence shot dispersion).

Jaegoor teaches to keep feet firm, so to pare down movement to body only. If you wish to keep the looking away (and hence the long development), you might look at planing your feet firm, and transforming the turn itself into something that is a bit snappier, but well focussed and controlled.

Good luck !

i get all of your points and they all make sense but my style is different when i'm going for accuracy, very different, for example when i'm going for accuracy i look at my sling for a very short period, then i look forwards and make sure i know where my target is, actually im just going to post a comparison video in a few minutes, so that i don't have to explain it.  :)

here's the video the first shot was me Slinging for power, the second was for accuracy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB_e4Q5yHLY&feature=youtu.be

and again mark i'm not going for accuracy just for power i had no planned target i was just planning on trying to get the maximum power.  :)

came on!! challenge!!!  25m watermelon, buckets, or zombies! jejej
nice video. I think you move alot your body, think the moviment with your Hips is the most important for power.

I might be able to hit a watermelon but the way yours shatters with one hit might be a little more difficult to do.

lol, for me i would have problems hitting it, but once i did i think i would have enough power.  :)

Okay; I`m defeated for now :(. 
Lacking watermelons I tied a "handball", somewhat smaller than a soccer ball, to a rope, and slung away at it from 25 meters.  And never hit it.  Sometimes I was just SO close, but no hits. 
So starting from today the training goal is refining my pinpoint accuracy, I cant let allow this to happen to me ;D

I'm surprised, because the earlier film shows you shooting at something that looks about the size of a plastic bag or towel-- and hitting it with shot after shot. It must be that the new challenge is making you self-conscious ?

I know, and its rather annoying.  I think it as to do with using any kind of ball as target.  I have missed quite a few of them over the years and consider them my nemesis.  I intend to remedy that this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WugxG6LR5sw

Nicely done Luis!

I recently found out that Luis only pretends to miss so people don't get jealous.  If he were really trying not one watermelon in a thousand could escape his unholy wrath.

Did you secretly observe him, secretly read his e-mails?  :D

By the way, can someone remind me what's the size of the ballearic targets (rectangle and circle) ?

Alsatian wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

Did you secretly observe him, secretly read his e-mails?

No comment. By the way, close your blinds.

Anywho... so I went hiking today and stumbled upon this...

https://flic.kr/p/rgiwUZ

A genuine wild watermelon patch. Likely started by someone spitting seeds into this river before it dried up to during the drought. Or at least that's the image I want to go with. Either way I set up some of these bad boys and started slinging at them. I even managed to score a hit or two. I will upload the video as soon as I can.

Anyone else planning on responding to Luis's challenge?

Felt that I had to braid a balearic sling first. Ended up with Sisal balearicus horridus, so i'm braiding my third flat braided sling, hoping it will come out a bit better. Round braiding is sooo much easier :)

https://youtu.be/kN-tonN1VcE

Here's the first of what might end up being a few videos. All I had were shrunken wild grown water melons which amazingly I stumbled across today while hiking. The picture I posted previously shows them. The video only shows one hit though I hit the larger size one as well at a different time. Hopefully will do better next time!

I love the reactions to the near misses! Good tight shooting dude.
I can't believe you found a wild patch of melons! That's providence eh?
I will make a video this weekend if the weather allows.

Tomas wrote on Mar 12^th, 2015 at 7:28am:

I can't believe you found a wild patch of melons! That's providence eh?

I'm telling ya... that was just beyond weird. Looking forward to your video Tomas. :D

One of my fencing club members has offered to be a human target for tennis balls. Video should be up by next Saturday.

I'm exited about this, can't wait for the video, and to your target I am sincerely grateful. :)

Maybe easier if the melon if off the ground ?

Possibly. They were pretty small though. I'm looking forward to making another one with normal size melons. As well as seeing our other members post their own videos.

Morphy wrote on Mar 15^th, 2015 at 3:41am:

As well as seeing our other members post their own videos.

Just did 300 shots at 20m to a 50cm round target... Would I have been in the last competition, I would have scored the grand total of 10 points...
I think I will keep using a knife to open my melons !

I bought a cantaloupe.... Waiting for the blizzard to go away!

Caldou wrote on Mar 15^th, 2015 at 4:05pm:

Morphy wrote on Mar 15th, 2015 at 3:41am: As well as seeing our other members post their own videos. Just did 300 shots at 20m to a 50cm round target... Would I have been in the last competition, I would have scored the grand total of 10 points... I think I will keep using a knife to open my melons !

Agreed. 

I also find sliced melons easier to eat than exploded melons.  :)

So, first I must apologize to Luis if he sees this. I don't want to seem like I'm calling him out for trying to be misleading.

But, I was looking at this video again, and noticed that the distance doesn't seem to be right.  It seems to be closer to maybe 17m.  It depends on how tall Luis is. If he is about 6' 3" or (1.905m), then the distance is actually about 17m. He would have to be about 3m tall for the actual distance to be 25m.

See the attached image. If you can assume that the field of vision in this image is linear in distance, and for a small angular spread, it is (less than 30 degrees in the field-of-view) then the distance is a little over 8 x (Luis height).

So, by that standard, I submit this video (which I posted elsewhere on this site as well).  I measured the distance where my front foot lands with a tape, and it is 17m. I get 3 hits to a target, similar in size to a watermelon (by area), in 20 throws.  And if you count only the shots up until the point where I accomplish 3 hits, then 3 out of 13.   :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjsbSQm1bpo[url][/url]

Also, Morphy, what happened to your slinging videos? None of them seem to be up anymore?

---

Great slinging

Ahh. Well. There's no good answer to that IG. I regret taking them down because the hard copy of them is on a laptop that I no longer have. 

I had planned on editing them to make them more concise and to the point.  I wasn't happy with them at that point because I had progressed a bit and felt like I could do better, both in the slinging and editing.  :-[

Anyways, I had never noticed this on Luis' video. Nice detective work. Any idea on the velocity of the stones?

Morphy wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 9:24am:

Ahh. Well. There's no good answer to that IG. I regret taking them down because the hard copy of them is on a laptop that I no longer have.  I had planned on editing them to make them more concise and to the point.  I wasn't happy with them at that point because I had progressed a bit and felt like I could do better, both in the slinging and editing.  :-[ Anyways, I had never noticed this on Luis' video. Nice detective work. Any idea on the velocity of the stones?

I believe that one of those throws was a 150 gram rock at 50 m/s.

First of all: Good slinging, IronGobber!

About the distance: You may have fallen victim to an image distortion and/or parallax error.


IronGoober wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2018 at 1:05am:

See the attached image. If you can assume that the field of vision in this image is linear in distance, and for a small angular spread, it is (less than 30 degrees in the field-of-view) then the distance is a little over 8 x (Luis height).

I think your assumptions may not be valid.
- the full field of view is used for your measurement. That is not a small angular spread (with respect to the field of view).
- You measure Luis height right in the corner of the image, where distortion is typically highest.
- In addition to distortion, there might also be a parallax error, depending where the camera was positioned. To me, it looks like the target is a bit further back from the camera than Luis is.

On a sidenote: how did you determine the 30 degrees?
See https://www.edmundoptics.de/resources/application-notes/imaging/distortion/ for a technical source. And yes, Luis is quite tall.
So considering all of this I'm a bit vary if your measurement is precise. On the other hand I have no idea how Luis measured his 25 meters, if he just paced it out or had a tape. In the end we have to trust his word.

Teg,


Firstly, thanks!

Secondly, you could be correct. Maybe my assumptions are incorrect. (I got the 30 degrees just by looking at the sine function, it can be approximated with a small degree of error (a few percent) up to about 30 degrees.

But as to my precision. I know it's not 100% accurate. However, even if my measurements had an error of 30%, the distance would still not be 25m. I would guess any distortion error to be no more than 5%. I will revisit this with an image that I take and see how bad the distortion is. I suspect it will be very small.

Morphy,

As for velocity, his stone travels the distance in 11-13 frames, assuming 30FPS, 0.366-0.433s to traverse the distance. So, assuming the 25m is 57.3-68.3m/s (129-152 mph). Lower limit is (assume 17m) 39.3-46.4 m/s (87.8 -103.8 mph).  Surprisingly, my shots are only going about 80 mph (~35m/s). I must throw a lot softer than I used to. Because I remember calculating over 100mph for most of my throws.   

I was just looking at some major league pitching videos, and a 100 mph pitch traverses the distance from release to home plate in about 12-13 frames. Assuming the pitcher steps off the rubber by about 1.5 yds past the rubber (makes the total distance to home plate 56.5 ft ~17m) the avg speeds are about 40-43 m/s (90-96 mph).

,  Keine 25 m , keine Melone. Das Ziel war ein Stein.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uJjNkFu2k3Y ;)

Melone
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MA9qx-jFmFc

Melone mit dem Bogen erlegt,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bMw7rdHzsEw

---

Well if it's 25 ms those stones are really moving. Even assuming the lower end of everything, considering the stated stone size (200-250 grams) those are very impressive numbers. I think if anyone could put out those kind of shots it would be Luis. He is a very powerful slinger.

Always love jaegoors videos

So, I finally got a chance to test out using a large image to measure distance. For a completely zoomed out image, with 22yds(~20m) the extent of the horizontal distance, I measured 20.7yds using my 5 foot wife as a measuring stick.  So, there is only a 6% error in using a vertical measurement for a horizontal one, the perspective and parallax error are pretty minimal.

---

Quote:

how many shots do you need for smash 3 watermelons?

1

Please post a video of that! We would all be indebted to you.

i can understand that...towards or after the end of the year, i will make some videos to display of various things.  i will have more freedom after my birthday. im still laying low for now even though it is close.  i should be able to travel internationally then too if it is first cleared with the state department.

http://slinging.org/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/trim_5F46CED4-3D1E-4361-9653-A03356CABE3D.MOV

Here's 3 melons

@Mersa woah
got to know, how many tries?

Id say 50ish but I didn't count, my sling accuracy usually goes good for first 3 throws then worse then better again around 40 throws. Maybe 12-15m at a guess . It's hard without warming up and having consistent ammo. I also find walls of things you can't easily See past make it easier. If I have a soda can on a post compared to a post with a wall directly behind I will be much more accurate when the wall is there . Don't know why but seems to happen. Im lucky I got the behind view my girlfriend just started filming as I found my rhythm.

It might be it helps with depth perception. I wonder if just by having a backstop it helps with accuracy in this way...

I think it definitely does. There's a lot of little things like that, that either help or hurt my accuracy. Another one is if there's a tuft of weeds partially obscuring the target. It psychs me out a bit and makes it more difficult. Or a thin branch going across the eye line.
Things that shouldn't really make a huge difference but for whatever reason do.

If I have a bush or a tuft in my line of sight I aim close and throw hard, basically imagining the target is the bush and try skim over it to hit the target behind. If I try aim directly at the target in my mind I throw horrible.
Another thing I try with varied success is not looking at the target til just before the power stroke .kinda a quick aim

I've done something similar to that. I do think there is something to instinctive shooting (or slinging). I have so many things to experiment with and try out and the weather is still HORRIBLE. Summer can't come quick enough.

Don't worry soon my Southern hemisphere will take winter away from you

Mersa wrote on Mar 21^st, 2018 at 5:23am:

Don't worry soon my Southern hemisphere will take winter away from you

Personally, I can't wait.

I've had enough of the Australian sun. I'll take that rain now, please! 

Tomas, Jaegoor is too modest to say it so I will. He is the best. At least until I start practicing again. Lol...jk my friend. You're my slinging  hero. ;)

Sad discovery, 20m instead of 25.
~0.5s to go 20m = 40m/s
Approximating the stone weight to be ~250g, that equates to ~200J KE.
Still impressive, but not superhuman like before...  ;)

---

For positioning:

---

No harm, no foul. Sure makes me feel better though lol.

Thanks for bumping this Albion!  I haven't seen this thread before.  Whether the distance was 20 or 25m, that was very impressive.

And strangely this provided another piece of information I wanted to find out for something I'll have coming in the future.  :)

Impressed at the new rigor being bought to these measurements.

When a figure is calculated on a TV show there is definitely an element of trust that they did it right (and they of course are incentivised to err on the side of bigger numbers for better TV).

you've met luis, pete, if he's involved, it's being done right :thumb:
Hmm, would i trust google earth or luis ?
I sure as hell would not be the one to tell him he was wrong lol
In this instance, I'd probably be inclined to go with luis.

The google earth measurer is not exactly a precise tool - well not the free one we all have access to anyway.

And jaegoor - modest ? :whistle:

That gave me a laugh :-)

Google location deviation.  This system is not always accurate.  I prefer to trust luis.  He is an absolutely confident marksman.

I would love to believe the distance attested in the video, but this evidence combined with IronGoober's investigation is enough to make me question things. I also think 200J with a short sling is a lot more realistic than 350J...
Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone is lying, just that a mistake could possibly have been made.

I know luis quite well.
He is probably the hardest throwing target slinger in the world.
He's also 6 foot 4 of hard muscled world class fitness instructor.

He doesn't dial back for target slinging like, well pretty much everybody else.

So if there's any number i would not question it would be the energy imparted by a stone he'd slung. 

I've been hit in the back of the head by a small sea sponge the bastard slung at me from 20 metres - that thing hurt !
I had mini-luis and big luis both targeting me - when there was a much bigger target in the form of gandalf the goth off to one side.

I've also nearly been killed by a lead glande slung at me by larry bray (if he'd got another 3 metres out of the throw, I doubt I'd be here to tell the tale).

I've also been within 10 metres of sling badger when he was slinging (probably the most dangerous sling thing I've done lol).
Even standing directly behind slingbadger is no guarentee you'll be safe.

I'm starting to feel there's a definite pattern here :whistle: