Slinging.org Forum | |
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl
General >> Other Primitive Weapons >> Arrowhead https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1324829588 Message started by PingHansen on Dec 25th, 2011 at 11:13am |
Title: Arrowhead Post by PingHansen on Dec 25th, 2011 at 11:13am
Just bought this on ebay. Now I'm going to see, if I can figure out how to cast them myself :)
|
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Dec 25th, 2011 at 3:07pm
Use it as a model for molds ;)
Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by PingHansen on Dec 25th, 2011 at 5:21pm Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Dec 25th, 2011 at 3:07pm:
That is exactly what I intend to do. I just need to figure out how the old ones did it. As I see it, it will need to be a four-part mold. I'm 'desperately' googling for arrowhead molds ;) |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by Masiakasaurus on Dec 25th, 2011 at 6:33pm
I'd make a 2 part mold, but I'm not sure if I can explain it well over the internet. The dark blue is the spear head, the light blue is the fins, white is the mold (and the background of the picture), green is where you pour the metal, orange is the vent hole for air to escape, and the red line is the break point of the mold.
![]() |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by PingHansen on Dec 25th, 2011 at 7:10pm Masiakasaurus wrote on Dec 25th, 2011 at 6:33pm:
I can see what you mean, and it's a very good idea, especially the little vanes on the upper part. Problem is, that if I want it to be authentic, the body is actually conical, not cylindrical, so I'd be unable to get the upper part off the arrowhead. M ost of the arrowheads I have looked at so far have a conical body. I've found drawings of ONE mold - it's in six parts for three arrowheads with a quadratic, armor-piercing profile. |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by Masiakasaurus on Dec 25th, 2011 at 8:52pm
That complicates things a bit. How about 4 parts? A large base to cast the vanes (1), a two part sleeve that fits into the base (3 & 4), and a plug (2) that fits into the sleeve which has the pour hole and air hole.
Right now I'm assuming you want to just cast one at a time with a reusable mold. Casting multiple arrow/spear heads requires a different approach, but I think I can come up with something if that's your plan. Is it possible that the arrowheads were originally cast with a cylindrical socket which was then expanded into being conical by being forced onto a tapered shaft? It seems kind of odd that the ancients used a conical arrowhead design that was much more complicated to make than a similar cylindrical design. ![]() |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by Aussie on Dec 25th, 2011 at 9:32pm
I wonder if you could make it as a "one piece" ie. extend the fins on the pattern so that it can be merely inserted full depth into the casting sand. Then, once the casting is made, machine back the fins to the desired shape and drill a hole in the base to accomodate the arrow shaft. A bit more machining required but greatly simplifies the casting process. What do you think?
|
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by jlasud on Dec 26th, 2011 at 3:47am
Lost wax casting would be probably easier than making a 4 part mold,that has to seal on every part.Also ,at the smallest mistake the casting could stuck inside the mold which than has to be broken. You could make a slilicon mould using the original,then pouring wax in the silicon mould,making as many as you wish,connecting the wax positives with flow channels like rings,or glandes were cast.Making a lost wax mould around the wax arrow tree.
That's how i would do it now.Looking forward on your progress. ;) |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by PingHansen on Dec 26th, 2011 at 5:59am
Looking at some other arrowheads, I have to conclude that they were cast in five part molds. Several of the arrowheads that I've seen pictures of, have ridges from the casting in continuation of the vanes. Three 120° pieces with seams along the vanes, a bottom plate with a spike and, a top ring to keep the three 120° parts pressed tightly together.
In the one mold I've seen so far, casting was done from the point. BTW: I wouldn't be the least surprised if the "ancient arrowhead" I've just bought, turned out to be cast last year - the seller is from China ;) |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Dec 26th, 2011 at 11:59am
To tell the truth, your last sentence was the first thing I tought when I first saw your arrowhead picture - the patina didn't convict me.
By the way, if you want to melt other arrowheads for your pleasure, that's ok, but if you plan to have plenty of it... perhaps it would be better to buy them? If the Chinese price was right... I was thinking to a 4 part mold, but it would have been very expensive in terms of time and energies... gotta go now, but may talk about it later! Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by PingHansen on Dec 26th, 2011 at 1:23pm Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Dec 26th, 2011 at 11:59am:
There is nothing rational about wanting to cast my own arrowheads. It would most likely be cheaper (and much easier) to buy modern broadheads. But, I'd simply like to be able to do it. There is something immensely satisfying about having made things yourself. I have more or less promised my younger son that we build a couple of bows this spring or summer. The older one will be building his own at school this spring. Following that up with casting our own arrowheads would be a certain hit 8-) jlasud wrote on Dec 26th, 2011 at 3:47am:
Yes, cire perdue is most definitely the way to go for small volumes. Making a proper multi-part mold is a somewhat more ambitious undertaking - even if made from clay. I don't think I'd be able/allowed by my wife to do any casting/smithing at my current address, as I have too much junk already ::) I'm thinking that I need to contact some of the hobby smiths in my area and pick their braaaaaaains (drool) ;D Incidently; the alleged ancient arrowhead was cheaper than a modern broadhead. Certainly more inspiring :) |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Dec 26th, 2011 at 2:20pm PingHansen wrote on Dec 26th, 2011 at 1:23pm:
I totally agree! I build my own bows and arrows, and forge my iron arrowheads! I have also melted bronze ones but these were waaaaaaaaay easier to make than your one ;) I've found forging my own arrowheads rational only because it helped me in improving my experimental archaeology project! Otherwise... I'd have bought them :) Greetings, and good work! Mauro. |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by PingHansen on Dec 26th, 2011 at 4:16pm
Here's a British alternative http://www.bronze-age-swords.com/aegean_swords.htm. The Chinese are still cheaper.
|
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by PingHansen on Dec 27th, 2011 at 9:02am
Mauro, I was wondering .. do you have any references to the composition of the bronze used for arrowheads?
I doubt that they used silicium and I don't know how common lead was in bronze of that era. Anyway, both silicium and lead make the bronze 'softer', and that would be an undesired effect. |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Dec 27th, 2011 at 9:43am
Hallo Ping!
I don't have any information right now, but I'll meet my friend tomorrow (he's the bronze melter ;) ) and I'll ask him! Generally, lesser lead gives a stronger alloy, altough harder to melt. Alloys during Italian Medium and Recent Bronze Age (1500 - 1100 b.C) did not contain more than 10% of tin, and hardly 1, 2% of lead. This was different from tool to tool (a fibula had more lead than an axe, for example), plus they used to melt destroyed or ancient objects, so that the alloy percentages were often uncertain. A working tool or a weapon had to be stronger than a decoration; I believe that they obtained this also by heathing and hammering its edge. By the way, the arrowheads we melted have never been used, so I can't tell if the percentages were correct. Anyway, these were 94% copper - 6% tin, and no lead at all. Arrowheads were flat, with a central rib, and were melted in series of 4. I could post pictures, shall I found them! Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Arrowhead Post by PingHansen on Dec 27th, 2011 at 11:05am Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Dec 27th, 2011 at 9:43am:
That's about what I figured, plus/minus a few percent. It also figures that the compositions would vary across the different tool types - the ancients certainly weren't fools in that regard :) Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Dec 27th, 2011 at 9:43am:
I've seen some pictures/drawings of 6th/7th century BC bronze molds from Mosul and Carchemish, but the insides were not shown of all of them. One of them, a four-piece single item mold, would actually be reasonably easy to make with cire perdue - or even with a metal saw and a Dremel tool - and as a beekeeper, I do have access to beeswax from the source ;) I'd better start checking some melting points for different metals and alloys - I don't think that making a leaden mold for casting bronze would be the smartest move ;D |
Slinging.org Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2! YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2025. All Rights Reserved. |