Good experience and advices, IronGoober. It is curious that being the slingers in our days generally self-taught and lonely, we end up developing the same knowledge and experiences. This thread is really good to share those experiences with the beginners. Another characteristic of the lonely slinger is that he competes with himself given the difficulty to meet with the few scattered slingers by the world. Nevertheless, the competition and the meeting with other slingers is highly stimulating and help to persevere in that way of improvement alone of the modern slinger. For this reason, I have thought sometimes about the possibility of organizing a virtual competition, that could be based on some rules very simple, like these:

- A standard target and distance for the competition. The target would have to be easy to make for everybody, like a wooden square of 50 cm, and the distance 15 m (or 20 m).

- Each slinger would record a video with a series of 10 shots in a single sequence (it is not valid to cut and paste shots of different series,  >:( ). The video would lodge here (if it is possible) or in youtube, and it would be analyzed and validated by virtual judges (administrators ?). The verification of the validity of the video seems to be easy, would be enough with putting next to the target a common object like a Coca-Cola bottle to validate its dimensions, and regarding the distance the slinger would show to the camera at the beginning of the video, in the direction of the target, another common object like a coin, so that its apparent size with respect the target allows to validate the distance. For example, if a coin of one inch covers the target of 50 cm, the distance would be approximately 20 m. Well, perhaps would be necessary to consider the distance from the camera to the slinger position.

I find interesting this sort of virtual competition, the only possible to organize with certain frequency (three or four times to the year) although I do not know if some others would be interested. It is only an idea that would be to develop in detail. If it worked, perhaps we could have in the future a virtual federation that gathers not only the scattered lonely slingers of the world but also the small groups or associations of the different countries (I like to imagine things  :)).

A virtual sliging competition might be a cool idea.  Though my phone`s video camera might have a hard time recording me and my (if any) hits 20 meters away ;)

Many good ideas above here.  I`m one of those who put in a little accuracy practice (as good as) every day, and I recognize most of it.  My basic way is to look at where I want to hit and just throw it there.  
That is not all that easy, though.  Thinking of how to get it there is always bad.  Style has to be automatic, trajectory comes through lots of practice, not calculation of each throw.

There is this small admonition above; Throw at Target.  Sounds silly, but for me it`s the most important one, and I frequently find myself failing in this.  After some misses I realize I`m thinking of some arm movement, foot or body placement, somewhere close to the target where I should not hit, or something other stupid, instead of just of just throwing the ammo at the target.
timann

I really should have read this thread seriosly through before I got out slinging today, to test my idea of a balaeric target out of a tarp.. My slinging was a sad thing.  :'(

And that reminds me of; patience.  My accuracy now is, while not at all perfect, still way beyond what I after couple of years with general slinging, imagined was possible for someone like me.
But, this result comes from patiently practicing often and methodically, over a loooong time, with many ups and downs along the way.
It is hard going, but trust me, the feeling when it finally begin to work makes it worth it.

timann wrote on Nov 24^th, 2011 at 1:53pm:

And that reminds me of; patience.  My accuracy now is, while not at all perfect, still way beyond what I after couple of years with general slinging, imagined was possible for someone like me. But, this result comes from patiently practicing often and methodically, over a loooong time, with many ups and downs along the way. It is hard going, but trust me, the feeling when it finally begin to work makes it worth it.

Thank you, that was soothing words for my sore slinging-soul!
( You can watch my sadly apperience on my YT channel....  :-[  )

Ulrica wrote on Nov 24^th, 2011 at 2:23pm:

timann wrote on Nov 24th, 2011 at 1:53pm: And that reminds me of; patience.  My accuracy now is, while not at all perfect, still way beyond what I after couple of years with general slinging, imagined was possible for someone like me. But, this result comes from patiently practicing often and methodically, over a loooong time, with many ups and downs along the way. It is hard going, but trust me, the feeling when it finally begin to work makes it worth it. Thank you, that was soothing words for my sore slinging-soul! ( You can watch my sadly apperience on my YT channel....  :-[  )

Okay, I admit there is room for improvement  ;)  But do not worry, this was how I began too.  Excactly like that :)

Hints:  Try different styles, play with them, find out over time what you like.  For a long time I used a simple basic overhand style - like an Apache throw with a step, as a basic fall-back style.  
If recovering the ammo takes away to much focus, consider trying some bandy balls, could/should be easier to find on that kind of ground.  If possible, some kind of backstop is a good thing.
In the beginning I spendt way to much time worrying about where the ammo would dissapear to focus on actually hitting.

I should make a target like that, too.  I`ll put it on my to do-list.
timann

Ulrica,

Don't give up. This is like timann wrote. You will see, it is easier than you think.

Hondero,

An interesting idea. But looks something similar have already been started informally. Watch some last videos. I think Tint was the first one that showed series of his shots, next were Jaegoor, Timann, me, Morphy and Hubert. The last Hubert's one was really impressive. That is really inspiring and motivating.  

However, I am not sure if it is good idea to change it into a formal competition. Maybe it would be enough to use both a standardized target (the 50 cm circle sounds good) and standardized proven distances only. Everyone have different chances to film his most successful shots. If someone who own a good cam-coder on standby and have a slinging spot just near his home, where he is able to sling and film a few times for a day, will have much more chance to catch ten hits in row than someone who have borrowed a camera for a day or two and have to drive to a slinging spot 10 kilometres. Maybe it would be better to let it be a little bit less formal. Just an inspiring fun with proven distances and a standardized and easy to make target.

timann wrote on Nov 24^th, 2011 at 3:15pm:

Ulrica wrote on Nov 24th, 2011 at 2:23pm: timann wrote on Nov 24th, 2011 at 1:53pm: And that reminds me of; patience.  My accuracy now is, while not at all perfect, still way beyond what I after couple of years with general slinging, imagined was possible for someone like me. But, this result comes from patiently practicing often and methodically, over a loooong time, with many ups and downs along the way. It is hard going, but trust me, the feeling when it finally begin to work makes it worth it. Thank you, that was soothing words for my sore slinging-soul! ( You can watch my sadly apperience on my YT channel....  :-[  ) Okay, I admit there is room for improvement  ;)  But do not worry, this was how I began too.  Excactly like that :) Hints:  Try different styles, play with them, find out over time what you like.  For a long time I used a simple basic overhand style - like an Apache throw with a step, as a basic fall-back style.   If recovering the ammo takes away to much focus, consider trying some bandy balls, could/should be easier to find on that kind of ground.  If possible, some kind of backstop is a good thing. In the beginning I spendt way to much time worrying about where the ammo would dissapear to focus on actually hitting. I should make a target like that, too.  I`ll put it on my to do-list. timann

thank you [again] for your nice words, Timann.
It did, indeed, took very much time to go search for my presous stones and you have right, I was too afraid for loosing the stone that I couldn´t relly concentrait on the target. Bandyballs is a good idea.

If you want closeups on my target, I can show you that. Maybe in another thread, though.

@  Yurek ;   Thank you for your nice words, too. I would like to go out slinging more. It´s just not that easy to find time and possibility to go slinging.. I will have to work on this with bandyballs and see if I can be in my garden, if just to practise accuracy and technic, for a while everyday, that would be great.  

Ulrica, if you have made a practical target it is no reason not to make a new thread about it, and show us all pictures of it`s construction.
For slinging in less than great sites there is also the option of tennis balls.  I use it often for target practice, it`s way better than not slinging at all.
timann

Off topic replies have been moved to This Thread

Yurek,

Of course I saw the videos you mention. Very interesting the one of Hubert, he seems well trained and with excellent accuracy. But I think they all are videos of exhibition or demonstration and don´t have to do with competition videos, since the targets, the distances and the projectiles are different and peculiar, and they don´t allow an objective estimation of the accuracy neither to establish comparisons. Nevertheless they are very interesting and stimulating, and constitute a first step towards the regular virtual competitions. There are well known the advantages of regular competitions, that stimulate the training and are the only way to have a group of good slingers, a few of them excellent. Indeed, as you say, in these competitions participate mainly those slingers who have the possibility and the time to train with regularity, but that happens in all sports. On the other hand, the important thing is not who wins or seems to be the best one, but the accuracy and the records that can be achieved  with the sling. In addition, if there are only a few competitions to the year, one has enough months to train and to record a good series of shots.
But indeed, it seems that at present it is still premature here to organize regular competitions, although perhaps we may advance a step more on the basis of your proposal: to follow with the exhibition videos but standardizing the target and the distance, so that the series of the slingers can be valued objectively. It would be almost as a competition without a fixed date, open all the year, informal and funny, in which each participant would record his video when it was comfortable to him or feel well trained. It would be a mix of exhibition and competition  :).

Hondero wrote on Nov 25^th, 2011 at 12:59pm:

... But indeed, it seems that at present it is still premature here to organize regular competitions, although perhaps we may advance a step more on the basis of your proposal: to follow with the exhibition videos but standardizing the target and the distance, so that the series of the slingers can be valued objectively. It would be almost as a competition without a fixed date, open all the year, informal and funny, in which each participant would record his video when it was comfortable to him or feel well trained. It would be a mix of exhibition and competition  :).

That is just I was thinking of :) One before slinging might film measurements of the target diameter and slinging distance with a measure tape or wheel and walk between the "slinging line" and the target to give an additional rough "steps verification".

After some time the exhibitions probably would evolve into more formal virtual competition. In that case, one day before the competition we could randomize a mark which must be visible on the movies, just in order to restrict the filming time. It would be also necessary to fix a deadline for publication of the movies. There are a lot details to discuss though. But first of all lets see how it will go with "the exhibitions" :)

I forget to mention IronGoober in my last post here and say thank you for your excellent tips, guys.

Very good, Yurek, we are progressing, there are at least two guys thinking on the matter  :). I think that to make easy the virtual competition and that anybody can record his video without added difficulties to the mere aiming practice, it is necessary to simplify to the maximum the topic of the standards that is being discussed of interesting and exhaustive way in the World Standard of Slinging thread. This will not be a regulated competition, but a previous step in the way towards it that we could call “accuracy test” or something so. I think that we would have only to regulate the target and the distance, as simplest as possible and oriented to detect in the video the impacts. The ideal target for this objective would be a sort of hung gong, been easily detectable the impacts by sound and movement in the video. I like in addition this type of target that conform to the warlike reality of the weapons, when it was important to hit an enemy and not that the shots passes close to him (to hit or not to hit, that is the question). A metal disc would be the best, but it´ll not be easy for everybody to get one, and perhaps is better to be of wood, and also to replace the disc by a square, much more easy to make. I think that the wood will also sound well in the video.

As far as the dimensions, the 50 cm of the Balearic diana seems suitable. The distance would have to be unique to simplify its verification in the video and the comparison between slingers. I would propose 20 m for men and 15 for women (I hope, Ulrica, that you´ll participate in spite of not to use your excellent target, that in the video would not allow perhaps to detect the shots that passes through the hole  :). The number of shots can be ten in a single series. That will be better than two separated series of five shots, that could correspond to different dates. The ten shots at least are necessary to score because being the target only the diana, some (or many)  shots will go out. Besides it will better allow appreciating the consistency of the slinger.

Finally, although there would not be regulation of the size and shape of the projectiles, by historical respect to the sling we have to avoid the use of balls of other sports like tennis, paddle, golf, etc., using exclusively stone or clay projectiles (the cement could be considered like substitute of the clay). I believe that these materials are available for everybody. Lead projectiles or of other metals would not be considered here as they suit better to long range competition.

Sounds exciting with a sort of competition. Some day I might join...

A round metal "something" in 0.5 meter in diamter could be hanged up somehow. that would produce aloud bang when hitting it.

Would there be some limited regulations in what kind of sling to use?

Ulrica wrote on Nov 27^th, 2011 at 6:56am:

Would there be some limited regulations in what kind of sling to use?

I think not, we can allow sinthetic cords as substitute or equivalente of natural fiber ones. What do you think about?

It´s good when it´s allowed to use the sling you have. Then it´s not needed to make a new one just for this "competition".

By the way, maybe a moderator could split this thread and create a new one for this competition thoughts.

Ulrica wrote on Nov 27^th, 2011 at 7:16am:

It´s good when it´s allowed to use the sling you have. Then it´s not needed to make a new one just for this "competition". By the way, maybe a moderator could split this thread and create a new one for this competition thoughts.

Did I split in a good spot, or are there posts that need to be moved?

Hondero wrote on Nov 27^th, 2011 at 6:36am:

Very good, Yurek, we are progressing, there are at least two guys thinking on the matter  :) ...

Hondero, looks like at least and at most two guys and a one girl are thinking on the matter ;)

Your proposition make sense to me. I am ready to accept almost all you proposed in your last post but I would to negotiate about ammo :) I would like to add to your ammo list Jaegoor's "rustyballs". I had an occasion to keep in my hands one of them and have to say that they imitate stones quite well. They are pretty dense and surprisingly hard. I am voting for them because I have no good safe place near home to practice accuracy with stones, clay or cement balls. I think more people have the same. The "rustyballs could be slung safely against a wall end recovered easy. I am still going to make a few.

Anyway it would be nice to hear opinions other slingers there. Also maybe Masiakasaurus would be nice to change the name of this topic into "Virtual Accuracy Presentations" or something more informative?

I don´t know how a rustyball is, I´ll look for it. Agree with you that is proper a name for the topic like virtual slinging presentation, or trial or something that Masiakasaurus likes and that don´t challenge anybody ;D

Sorry. I suggested Masi to split and take this out of the other thread. It was one of My suggestions of a name for this thread.

Hondero: you stands at the first post, maybe you can change the name of the thread if you want.

Ulrica wrote on Nov 27^th, 2011 at 4:30pm:

Hondero: you stands at the first post, maybe you can change the name of the thread if you want.

I´ll cange it but as my english is not fine first I´d like to agree with you and YUrek the last word of "Virtual slinging ......"  Could be trial, demonstration, presentation, .... competition?

Contest ?

Or is that only about music?

Virtual slinging contest ?

VSC :)

I also like challenge.

Ulrica I also like "the challenge" but it sounds a bit defiantly and says nothing about the subject. Maybe "Video Accuracy Demonstrations"?  I would be nice if someone of native speakers help us a bit.

Well, we have three different proposals  :D. I´ll take one word from each and provisionally change the current name to "virtual accuracy contest". We can modify it later when having more opinions.

Hondero wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 2:11am:

Well, we have three different proposals  :D. I´ll take one word from each and provisionally change the current name to "virtual accuracy contest". We can modify it later when having more opinions.

It reminded me an old joke.

- What is camel?
- Camel is a horse designed by a committee :)

Seriously, the current version sounds good to me.

Yurek wrote on Nov 27^th, 2011 at 1:40pm:

I would like to add to your ammo list Jaegoor's "rustyballs". I had an occasion to keep in my hands one of them and have to say that they imitate stones quite well. They are pretty dense and surprisingly hard. I am voting for them because I have no good safe place near home to practice accuracy with stones, clay or cement balls. I think more people have the same. The "rustyballs could be slung safely against a wall end recovered easy. I am still going to make a few.

I´ve had a look at the Jaegoor´s  rusty balls, and since they are made of sand, they can be considered like a disintegrated stone within a balloon  ;). I understand what you say of the difficulty for many to train in the fields and the convenience of using therefore safe projectiles in city areas. When I train in a handball court I use a solution similar to Jaegoor´s one. I envelop a stone in several layers of cloth, compress them with adhesive tape and put it within two or three balooms. The projectile does not spoil the wall and it does not bounce either, although the impact makes an exciting sound like a “pelota vasca” (Basque handball).  When throwing it the feel is like of a stone. Rusty ball has the advantage of become deformed and perhaps it makes a little less damage if it hit a person, but have the disadvantage that when you throw strongly perhaps it deform also a little in the pouch when shooting, affecting the consistency. Well, if there is consensus I think that both safe projectiles could be allowed in the contest, and that we would not betray too much the legend of the sling.

Hondero

The balls go out of shape only with hit.

They are very hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odko9I3O-5Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nQQk8meHXE

Jaegoor, the projectile deformation when throwed must happen although it can be small. Consider that all the energy with which the projectile hits the target is given by the pouch at the moment of the shooting in a fraction of second, and as the projectile is not rigid must become deformed a little in the pouch. It is just like if you press strong a moment the projectile within the hand, that necessarily become deformed. Naturally this is impossible to see unless we record the projectile flight with a high speed camera; then we would see it a little deformed. But I don´t think this effect is too much detrimental  :).

Where is the barn and how do I get inside? (as that is the only way I can hit the broad side of a barn)

Steven wrote on Nov 28^th, 2011 at 2:50pm:

Where is the barn and how do I get inside? (as that is the only way I can hit the broad side of a barn)

;D

I´m coming with you, but take care:  I have no control over my stones....

......yet.

Yes you do. That short video with you in blue doing a forward rotation style looks very good.

Honder: One deform in the Sling is not perceptible.

Even if one itself then ball with the hand before then head does not fight misshapenly he.

Only the impact deforms then ball.

The new balls are still improved.

Their contents will be no normal sand.

Also the cover will be a little thicker material.

Getting back to the original topic, I think it's a good idea.  An unedited video showing the distance being measured out, the target size and then 10 shots all in one take. No cutting and pasting.  I like the idea of not limiting people based on style or sling type. That has always seemed overly exclusionary to me.

Judging distances on video is very difficult. I often get the sense the Balearic slingers are slinging from a pretty extreme distance when in reality the camera is just far from the slinger. And the opposite effect on my own videos.

I also have always liked Aussie's Difficulty Index and feel like it would work very well in a formal quasi-competitive setting. That is one of the best accuracy judging tools out there, yet few seem to even know about it, and practically no one seems to use it. Plug in a hit percentage to the Difficulty Index and you get your Skill Rating for that days slinging. Average them out every month and you get a great sense of your progress (or lack thereof  ;)) in slinging.

One quick question... Does anyone have a link to Hubert's video that is mentioned in this thread? Thanks.

Morphy wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 12:03pm:

... One quick question... Does anyone have a link to Hubert's video that is mentioned in this thread? Thanks.

Here you are, Morphy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd19eMFbTQQ

Thank you my good man.  :)

I like tennis balls out to about 15 meters.  Out further than that I have a hard time being accurate with them. That probably has as much to do with my inexperience with them as anything else though.

I'm not surprised to see Hubert accurate with his slings. Just by looking at the practical nature of his sling designs you get a sense that he knows what he's about. It's strange how all of us end up doing many of the same things even though we live so far away from each other and generally sling by ourselves for most of our lives.  

This video does show very well how much perfectly consistent ammo (or very close at least) can really help with consistent accuracy. Hitting that X consistently with random weight ammo would be very difficult indeed.

Good video Hubert, thanks for sharing.

Morphy wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 12:03pm:

Judging distances on video is very difficult. I often get the sense the Balearic slingers are slinging from a pretty extreme distance when in reality the camera is just far from the slinger. And the opposite effect on my own videos.

Morphy, that is the main problem of the virtual competition. We have to start the thinking machine to find a simple and effective solution. As you say, the distance between the camera and the slinger, or the focal length of the camera lenses, changes the perspective and can modify the evaluation of the apparent distances. As has suggested Yurek, the slinger could walk the distance, but being different the steps of each person could have differences in the measurement perhaps of 20%. The best would be to estimate the distance from the position of the slinger, by means of some procedure based on the comparison of the sizes of the target and a well-known object located in the position of the slinger. I am imagining vaguely a conical object (i.e. a bottle of known dimensions) located at the position of the slinger and that has an equal angle to which it forms the camera with the target. If the small end of the bottle covers the great end, and both cover the target, the distance could calculate. If later we change the focal length of the camera the bottle would not cover the target. It´s not still very clear to me and I don´t know also if I have expressed it clearly for other.  

Okay.
My math isn´t good, but that is not so importent in this stage. I have an idea of how to check if the distance is good. If it works in reality is another thing, but maybe something to start with.

I made a child-painting over my idea.

That stick "X" is yet to be measured out, I have no idea how long it should be in the 15m distance. It will be different in the 20 m distance.. and so on..

Before start slinging, you can film the measurment of the target and the stick and then somehow hang it at the 15 meter line. Then
it should appear as long as the side of the target ( 1.2m)

Would it work?

Here is the child-painting :)

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z472/Sindanis/controllidea.jpg

An easy aid would be a coloured rope.

It changes all 5 m the colour.

10 m green
15 m blue
20 m red

One pulls the rope simply in such a way which is to be recognised it on the video well.
In this manner the position of the camera would make no difference.

Central issue one sees the coloured rope

Yurek wrote on Nov 25^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:

... One before slinging might film measurements of the target diameter and slinging distance with a measure tape or wheel and walk between the "slinging line" and the target to give an additional rough "steps verification"...

Hondero, I actually suggested measures with tape or wheel filmed just before slinging - in one capture. The steps would be just visual rough verification of the more precise measurements. Besides they would make the the task more difficult. You know, first the measures and just after, the 10 shots - not the same like filming of 200 shots and choosing the 10 best ones in row :)

I would have thought the distance and size of target could relatively easily be judged by the person standing beside the target. Am I correct in thinking a danna (spelling?) is around the size of a human head and I dont know the other dimensions for the rest but relative to humans.
Ofcourse we get tall and small people, but it would be hard to gain more than a metre in advantage by playing with size in comparison. I do agree something like a coke bottle however which is standard could be simpler than the guessing game, but even this would need specific rules (such as the bottle needs to be placed infront of the target in order to establish it is infront of it).

Really like the idea of a contest like this though,

Nemo

nemo wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 6:08pm:

Am I correct in thinking a danna (spelling?) is around the size of a human head and I dont know the other dimensions for the rest but relative to humans. Nemo

My head is fairly average at 57 cm circumference (based on my metric hat size, just bought an Akubra [smiley=cheesy.gif]). A diana on a balearic target is a hair over 157 cm circumference, quite a bit larger than my head.

Put another way, the Diana is 50 cm in diameter and if my head were perfectly round it would only be 18.2 cm in diameter.

Here's a picture of my Balearic target in front of my garage, for a height comparison. The top of the garage door is just about 2 meters off the ground (maybe more).
[edit]Garage doors are 2.28 meters high, or 90 inches for my fellow Americans.[/edit]

---

Yurek wrote on Nov 30^th, 2011 at 4:17pm:

Yurek wrote on Nov 25th, 2011 at 4:05pm: ... One before slinging might film measurements of the target diameter and slinging distance with a measure tape or wheel and walk between the "slinging line" and the target to give an additional rough "steps verification"... Hondero, I actually suggested measures with tape or wheel filmed just before slinging - in one capture. The steps would be just visual rough verification of the more precise measurements. Besides they would make the the task more difficult. You know, first the measures and just after, the 10 shots - not the same like filming of 200 shots and choosing the 10 best ones in row :)

I like both suggestions but this one has the added idea of forcing someone to be close to as good as the video shows them being. Having to physically take the camera and film while you walk to the target with a wheel or with a rope you measured out on camera will limit how many "takes" one can realistically do. The key though would be to do the measuring before the 10 shots and to do it all in one take. Measuring then throws all in the same clip, unedited.

The other suggestion is faster and would mean smaller video sizes to upload because it would get rid of having to actually walk the distance or measure on video, but I can see someone doing what Yurek said: Taking 200 shots and using the 10 best.

As for target size, if using a Balearic diana, one could simply bring a meter stick up to the target as you're walking to it with your rope or wheel and put the meter stick on the diana for a second to establish scale. Or if one did not want to use a Diana, one could use a commonly available item, like a coke can.

Ok, I am uninformed.

What exactly is the "Diana?" Is it just the round part of the Balearic target?  More importantly, why is it called that?

Yes, and, it's one of the great mysteriesof the universe.

Well, till now we have two sorts of suggestions to measure the distance. One, that could be called “direct” method (suggested by Yurek and Jaegoor), uses a tape, wheel or rope to measure. Other, that could be called “comparative” method (suggested by Ulrica and me), estimates the distance from the slinger position comparing dimensions. The first one is more accurate but needs more time of video. The second one, being shorter, may be less accurate (though enough valid).

I think the easiest way to use the direct method is with a rope or cord of enough thickness to be seen in all its length in the video. So there is no need to buy tools like long tapes or measure wheels if you have not yet one. I like to imagine the process: the slinger walk to the target holding a stick of 50 cm (the target diameter). There is a rope stretched between the target and the shooting position. He checks up the target with the stick and walk back dragging the rope to the camera position. There he measure the stick and the rope (the rope can be folded several times to measure only a fold). Then the series of shots begin. The camera position and the zoom can be free.


The comparative method requires that the zoom adjustment and the distance from the camera to shooting position are fixed for all slingers. Also the heights of the target and camera to the floor are fixed. The camera must be not touched during the video (except initially as we shall see), which is easy to check up in the image. Suppose for example a camera-slinger distance of 5 m. and a height of the camera (lens) of 1 m. There will be a pole or stick at the slinger position of 2 m height that fill permanently the entire height of the image. The top of the target will be also at 2 m. height (the center will be at 1.75 m). If the top of the target in the video matches a height of 1.20 cm on the pole, height that will have previously marked on it, then the distance will certainly be of 20 meters. To clearly understand this calculation one can make a little drawing.

To check up these fixed positions of the target and the camera, you could proceed as follows: the video begins by zooming on the target as close as possible. There will be a common object close to it, like a beer can (empty if possible,  :D). The can may even be stuck on the target with plasticine, and possibly come away at first impact on the target. If its height is 12 cm then the target will measure approximately 4 cans. Likewise, the height of the base of the target on the ground should be three targets. After checking the target, zoom back to its fixed position, covering exactly the pole height, and remain there motionless for the entire video.
The height of the pole will be directly measured with a tape and the camera-pole distance also with a tape, attaching its end to the pole and extending the tape till the camera lens ( blurred fingers will occupy the entire image).
Procedure time is small as there are not  need of walking to the target and its verifications can be made stopping the video (1 second of video on the target will be enough).  Only the distance camera-pole would take 5 or 6 seconds.

If we don´t find another method we can use one of these. Which seems most appropiate?

I would vote for the first method. The way I was planning on doing it is to have a 25 meter length of rope with a stake tied to each end. I would be standing at the 25 meter mark in the video with the camera a few feet away from me. I would pound the first stake into the ground at this pre measured 25 meter mark. Then proceed to measure the rope along the meter stick starting with the the stake in the ground while on camera. Once I had shown that the rope with the stakes was exactly 25 meters I would walk out to the target with the meter stick and the opposite end of the rope in hand. When I reached the target I could knock on it with the other stake showing the rope was taut and that it was 25 meters away and I was standing next to the target. Then pound the stake into the ground next to the target. Now I would have a 25 meter rope stretch taut between the two points. Then hold the meter stick up to the Diana showing it is exactly .5 meters across. (The meter stick would be colored so exactly half was a bright color. When held up to the Diana even at a distance it should be easy to see that it is half a meter across.

A measuring wheel would be a lot easier. I may have to invest in one if we actually start doing this regularly.

Let me know what you guys think.

Morphy, I just meant filming either the measures and slinging in the same take. The measures can be  pretty quick. There is no need to remove the camera from the tripod. It would be enough to bring the wheel or tape to the camera close enough to see the readings. If someone use a measuring type, he would have to stretch it on the ground between the target and "slinging line", next grab the tape in the proper place with two fingers and show the scale to the camera. Similarly with the wheel - show the "zero reading", roll it to the target and show the "end reading". Thats all about the distance. About the size of the target, the slinger could use the same method like during measuring of the slinging distance with a tape or just measure that one close in front of camera and next hung it up in its place.

Morphy, I think if someone wants he could use a smaller target, no problem. But besides making others jaw drooping he wouldn't get extra points :)

Oops, I didn't saw Hondero's Morphy's posts above  .

My Friends, you are going to make things too complicate. There isn't simpler method than direct measurements with using mentioned tools. There is no need to buy expensive wheels or long tapes. A 5m or even 2m tape is pretty cheap and I think most of us own a one. Of course a long one or wheel would be more easy to use, but there is no problem to measure the 20 m distance with a 5m tape and show it in front camera. I can't understand why measuring of a stick with a measure type and next measuring of a rope with the stick is better than a direct measure. The same with other indirect methods which require calculations and are both complicated and inaccurate.

Yurek wrote on Dec 1^st, 2011 at 1:55pm:

The same with other indirect methods which require calculations and are both complicated and inaccurate.

Indirect methods could be more dificult to understand the calculus basis , but they are more simple to carry out than walking onwards and backwards between the target and the shooting line :D. As simple as to see in the video how the top of the target mach a mark on a pole.

Yea that would be easier... I guess I was thinking from the point of view of the easiest way to do it right this second rather than going out and getting a longer measuring tape LOL... ahh... I need a nap.  :o

As far as using smaller targets I think at some point that is just going to be the natural progression of things eventually.  

It seems that we have reached an impasse, but perhaps we have achieved the intended purpose of analyzing the possibilities of organizing a virtual contest. Beyond the natural disagreementes and preferences of each one on the method to test the standards, I think we have all shown that the virtual contest is possible. Another thing is to decide and specify  in detail the procedure, and especially to start the contest. In my case, I have still much to train before I hit at least 8 out of 10 times the diana :P.
When I have time I´ll make a real test of the different methods, comparing its length, reliability, video observation, etc.

In fact doesn't matter how someone would measure/prove the slinging distance. The only one thing is important, a chosen method should be convincing for most of us here. I would use a measuring tape or wheel when I decide to film my shots. Hondero, I think that these indirect methods are clever and sometimes very useful. If someone would want to use a one - why not. However it would be more difficult to defend it when is questioned. Anyway I am curious of results of your test, it is interesting though. When we know them it would be time to work up clear simple rules.

Alas, I am afraid the present time isn't favorable for discussions about contests. People are rather prone to think how to survive an apocalypse ;)