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Message started by Caldou on Oct 8th, 2011 at 5:28pm

Title: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on Oct 8th, 2011 at 5:28pm
I'm slinging since february, and I'm completly hooked.

But now, I want to take it farther, in the spirit of the "get a coach" topic... So I'm trying to create the first french sport club dedicated to the sling.

I will explain how I'm thinking of doing it and ask you all for some help and both general and practical advices, within the limitations of my little project ^^
Believe me, I'm sorry for the long and boring speech written in such an awful english... but I need your help ;)

First, a question to Jaegoor : I understood you are training slingers, is it as an official sport or is it reenactment ?
Then, to everyone : I know there is slinging clubs and regulation in the Balearic Island, but i don't understand spanish well enough anymore... so I may state false facts... don't be shy, correct me ;)

What do I want to do ?

Well, to create a sport club... with rules to apply.
Of course, I could have kept it simple and translate the Balearic system.
But I want to promote slinging and so I don't want to use and impose only one style but try to explore the several ways to launch a little piece of something with a bit of string while keeping the basic standard.

So, I'm searching ways to adapt this system. Since I'm looking for a sport, accuracy is the more challenging part to achieve, and so the more intersting. Power will eventually follow ^^

Let me check if I understood the rules :
- You have to use a natural fiber sling, balearic style
- You use stones around 250gr (sorry, can't understand the imperial system :-[). Well, this point seem to be false, I've seen tennis ball in the pictures...
- Your sling have to make at least 3 turns behind your back
- You sling at complicated distance (30*65cm, 45*65cm, 15*65cm... come on, use 10, 20 or 30 meters !) (I believe I read somewhere in the forum distances like one step is 95 cm and the further is 60 steps... but where ???)

Since I can't picture myself saying the authorities in charge of approving my sport project that I want to send rocks flying, I will use tennis ball or juggling ball, Jaegoor's Rusty ball style. That should be enough to keep them from calling the army and making heavily restricting laws... No, France is not the "human rights and liberty country" anymore (if it was ever, but that's politics and not slinging...)  :-/
Tennis ball are made to make us chase after them when confronted with a solid balearic target (or other trees and barn sides) so another change : the use of a nice ball catcher, that may be taken apart and quite light. Something like this one but maybe with a tight net or fabric big pouch to keep the balls inside. The metal circle may be changed into something like this, also with a pouch added.

So we have a structure heavily based on the time-proved balearic system, but much lighter, "open" and safer looking. Since it's a sport, we may need a graduating system... How about shooting at a tv ? ;)

My questions

Because, yes, I have questions to ask...

- Is there any abvious flaw in my approach ?
- There is slinging club in Spain... that's good. When I talked about this "creating a sport club" with the "sport person" of my city, he told me to look for an "Olympic registration number", to ease the administrative hassle. Do you ever heard about something like this ?
- To create a club or an association, I need to be 3. Parthenogenesis is out, I'm a guy :p So far, I contacted :
* my city's blowgun association, but they are only 3years old, and their president is helping me with all kind of advice on legal work, so I  would feel bad to steal their members (but corruption is on the way, i offered a sling to the president :P)
* one reenactment group, Celtic period. They seem really interested ^^
* I will contact another reenactment group, a Roman one, a LARP group where sling is an accepted weapon
Do you have any idea of other kind of people who may be interested ? Bowmen ?

That's all (for now), thanks for support and any help and advice you can provide ! ^^

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Jaegoor on Oct 8th, 2011 at 5:56pm
Hi,


we have a small association in Germany.

This deals with history.

In this frame, however, also with sporty slingen.

We have rules augestellt. These orientate themselves by the balearic rules. However, there are some differences.

We also have classifications. Coloured T of shirt.

yellow, red, brown and black.

I find your plan great.

http://blog.ottonenzeit.de/schleuderer-ecke

http://fundamittere.jimdo.com/

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by xxkid123 on Oct 8th, 2011 at 6:41pm
250g in my opinion is wayyyyy to heavy. I would go with something 100 grams to start. I don't like the three revolutions thing either. Many styles have no revolutions and are quick to excecute, like figure eight, Greek overhand and apache.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Knaight on Oct 8th, 2011 at 7:44pm
Most of these rules are unnecessarily restrictive. Set up the target, standardize ammunition (and don't use 250 gram stones, that is completely absurd. 60g should be plenty) allow any style of slinging. If rocks aren't viewed as acceptable, I would recommend against tennis balls. Racquet balls are smaller, about the same mass, and work better in general.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Aussie on Oct 8th, 2011 at 9:34pm
Get the competitors to dress in nice light uniforms; tee shirts and short. Also throw balls of any kind. Tennis balls are a bit light but safe. Lacrosse balls are reasonable and still quite inexpensive and the French name should be a bonus. Uniforms and balls give the impression of a nice sport not some dangerous activity that needs to be controlled.

Let us know how you get on. The usual problem with establishing slinging as a sport is lack of interest. I wonder if you'll find enough people to establish a competition?

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Dilyan Ganev on Oct 9th, 2011 at 2:41am
I had a very long talk with friend of mine and a bowmen club of my hometown. We boiled down the standardization of slinging as a sport. There are several standarts you might follow as ideas
1 Choose a constant sling lenght, e.g. 75/85/95 cm, and same matirials(natural or synthetic)
2 Shoot at regulated distance e.g. 20/30/40/50 m
3 Shoot at a standart sized target (balearic one or a personal design)
4 Use same ammo every time(100 gram JRB is good choise)
5 And the tricky part-the style...My advise is to choose two styles with no wind-up like Byzantine and Figure 8, and 3 wind-up styles (Balearic, Helicopter and sidearm)

As for the target i tried to make backstop of a piece of a mail armor. I hang it on its top corners only, and it worked well.  

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Aussie on Oct 9th, 2011 at 3:19am
Why dictate sling length and style? The aim is to hit the target from a given distance, so let each person do that as best as he can.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Knaight on Oct 9th, 2011 at 3:30am

Aussie wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 3:19am:
Why dictate sling length and style? The aim is to hit the target from a given distance, so let each person do that as best as he can.

I agree with this entirely. A range of acceptable sling lengths is fine, if you want to restrict it to .5 to 2 meters or something that would make sense, but exactly one length is unnecessary. Style is similar, any style that actually works should be allowed.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Aussie on Oct 9th, 2011 at 4:21am

Knaight wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 3:30am:

Aussie wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 3:19am:
Why dictate sling length and style? The aim is to hit the target from a given distance, so let each person do that as best as he can.

I agree with this entirely. A range of acceptable sling lengths is fine, if you want to restrict it to .5 to 2 meters or something that would make sense, but exactly one length is unnecessary. Style is similar, any style that actually works should be allowed.


Of course any style that doesn't work won't be used; at least not for long. That's the good thing about competition, it makes you honest.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by jlasud on Oct 9th, 2011 at 4:45am
If i were to set the laws,i would let as much freedom to it as it's possible while retaining the general purpose:use a sling you like,ammo you like (without expl.or other funny stuff)but everyone is slinging at given equal distances at the same target.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Knaight on Oct 9th, 2011 at 4:46am

Aussie wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 4:21am:

Knaight wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 3:30am:

Aussie wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 3:19am:
Why dictate sling length and style? The aim is to hit the target from a given distance, so let each person do that as best as he can.

I agree with this entirely. A range of acceptable sling lengths is fine, if you want to restrict it to .5 to 2 meters or something that would make sense, but exactly one length is unnecessary. Style is similar, any style that actually works should be allowed.


Of course any style that doesn't work won't be used; at least not for long. That's the good thing about competition, it makes you honest.

At the same time, there has to be a way to crack down on people sending stuff behind them or to the sides, for safety purposes. And you would be surprised at the stuff people will stubbornly stick with.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by curious_aardvark on Oct 9th, 2011 at 7:09am
excellent caldou.

Sounds like you've got a good idea what you want to achieve and have started on making it happen  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

As far as rules go. Keep them as simple as possible.

I don't agree on the balearic restiction os slings, style or ammo.

And as for uniforms - please, by all means print t-shirts but any sport where you have to wear a particular uniform to participate  will not appeal to people like me :-)

Your english is excellent - thousand times better than my french lol

So what I would do is standardise the target size and distances - nothing wrong with the balearic target and using metres instead of paces makes perfect sense to me.

If you can get standardised ammunition that would also be excellent and take it a long way towards getting accreditation as an official sport.
I would also suggest talking to aussie and getting him to send you a lot of pouches. Standardised slings will also help you get official recognition.
Just makes it look a lot more professional if everyone uses the same type of sling.
People can use different length cords - but it just makes sense to have everyone using the same pouch.

If you are trying to get slinging recognised as an official sport then standardised equipment is the only way you can go. And the aussie pouch with 4mm or 6mm paracord cords is certainly going to look a lot more professional than a bunch of different braided and leather slings.
Aussie pouches are tough, durable, capable of handling a wide range of ammo - but most importantly from your point of view - standardised and are the only sling pouch that has been used widely around the world for the last 3 ? (4 ?) years.
They are the closest thing to world wide standard that exists.  
And also will appeal to officials as they are made from modern materials and are easily reproduced (once you find a source for used conveyor belts).

A net behind the slinger is also a good idea to protect spectators.

If there's anything I or slinging.org can do to help, please let me know.

Outside of the balearics slinging.org is the closest thing to a worldwide organisation that exists.
Maybe we could contact your city officials to give you a boost ?
Anyway good luck and like I said - anything we can do - just ask :-)




Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Jaegoor on Oct 9th, 2011 at 7:59am
250 g are not too difficult.

In Spain one shoots stones with a weight of from 200 to 250 gr.

In Germany we shoot from 150 to 250 g


I myself also shoot 250-g-stones

One sees them better in the flight.

I would renounce Paracord. One can take this material. However, it has many negative qualities.

Also I would not permit any kind slingens. I hold many so-called styles simply for injurious and also crazy.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Dilyan Ganev on Oct 9th, 2011 at 8:57am
I recommend regulated sling lengths for the reason that this is something accustomed to a formalized club, and yes it doesn't have to be the same size, more like a using the hand length-sling ratio for every person (like using the same type and strength of bow) And as for the material of slings it has to be something that you can find in abundance(like hemp, masons line and etc.)  

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by jax on Oct 9th, 2011 at 10:55am
I like the idea of a standardized system for distance,projectile weight and target size.All other restrictions,to me,seem silly.I have been slinging for the better part of three decades,and the thought of hitting a small target like a milk jug gives me a headache.Something more in the Balaeric size seems realistic(How big is it,1 meter?). Why limit the materials used,maybe have two classes,traditional and open.Traditional would be non-synthetic with a set sling length,and open can be anything.

 Let me know when we have all decided on something.Paleoarts came up with a system,it somehow gave me a headache.Can we not,being the worldwide authority on slinging,come up with the standard?Let's start a topic,make it a poll if needed,and see it through to the end(standardization for competition).

Brett

P.S.   For the purists,it would be OK to have World Standards and Balaeric Standards.At any slinging event worldwide you could have three classes,Balaeric,World and Open.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by curious_aardvark on Oct 9th, 2011 at 12:27pm

Quote:
I would renounce Paracord. One can take this material. However, it has many negative qualities.

Also I would not permit any kind slingens. I hold many so-called styles simply for injurious and also crazy.


guess there'll be two organisations then :-)

Paracord is a standardised, cheap, durable and universally available cord type.
Hand braided cord varies widely in both performance, size, flexibility and strength.

And restricting throw styles is stupid. Simply becuase you - personally - do no like or cannot use a particularly style does not mean that someone else can't use that style effectively.

For a slinging sport to be taken seriously by modern sport governing bodies. Standardisation of equipment is critical - this can only effectively be done with modern cordage.
You could argue for a standard leather pouch design, but woven pouch slings are always going to have variations due to the individual maker.

Forget historical renactment and wearing costumes. For anyone to create a viable modern slinging sport - you need to embrace both modern standardisation AND modern materials.

Throw styles are personal choice and are in all field sports (it's just that usually one particular style works better than the rest so that's all that is used.)

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by jax on Oct 9th, 2011 at 12:53pm
see new sticky:http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1318173866/3#3

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Jaegoor on Oct 9th, 2011 at 4:12pm
One can invent the wheel of course also several times. Do not have to go one, however.

There are very good reasons to renounce on para.
However, this is quite an other subject.

The Balearic Islands are organised very exemplarily.

Their set of rules is a very good basis.


One should not shoot different styles.

With Olympia nobody comes on the idea to throw a spear with a string.

And this although one did it earlier so


To calm. I train absolutely also with very modern devices.

Maybe we see ourselves in Spain. There I can declare it not only but also to point.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on Oct 9th, 2011 at 4:30pm
Woooo... i didn't expect such a reaction  :o !

- I don't want to create an historical slinging club. I want to create a sport club. It happens that the first people who said they are interested in it are reenactors :)

- I don't like uniforms. So everyday gear seems ok with me. Why not slinging with your tie on ? (Because you have turned it into a sling is a valid answer...)

- I don't like slinging 250gr either, even with a basic underarm. JRB can be standardized, but mass production may be a bit tricky, no ?
Plus, we have to take the easily frightened administration to keep in check. Tennis ball are soft but not so great, golf ball are classier but too hard, Lacrosse... is unknown here, so out of scope ^^ I think we can still go for JRB

- I like (for once ^^ ) the DIY side of the slinging world, so i guess I will accept any kind of sling for the training sessions... but only standardized one for competition.
Are the safety belt standards international ? because Old australian post conveyor belt may be quite hard to find in worldwide quantity...

- The colors to show the level of the student is a recognized good idea. But the uniform is not a good idea... So why not using different color for the sling cords ?

I'm OK with not re-inventing lukewarm water, but if we have round trunk as wheels, how about using only 2 slices of it for the car ?  :)
About the differents style, in the Olympic High-Jump, nothing prevent you from using other jump style than Fosbury...

And of course, all the safety rules will be drilled before any shot ^^



Quote:
If there's anything I or slinging.org can do to help, please let me know.  

Outside of the balearics slinging.org is the closest thing to a worldwide organisation that exists.  
Maybe we could contact your city officials to give you a boost ?  
Anyway good luck and like I said - anything we can do - just ask

If we can set an "official" standard for a modern sport in the sticky, it would be a huge help, to be able to show the official that I'm not just wasting their time but that it is a serious project. :)


And I'm still asking :
Where do you think i may find people ???
Or : Where would you look for hidden slingers (adults one, it is complicated to have an agreement to teach kids ^^ )

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by jax on Oct 9th, 2011 at 5:13pm
Ah,that's the real tricky part,where to find slingers..Well,it's up to you to make them!Family,neighbors,friends,co-workers and anyone who sees you slinging,those are your likely candidates.I am a skate boarder,so I tend to enlist slingers at skate sessions.People see what you're up to and they want to participate.If you think they are fairly responsible,give them a sling or a lesson or both.

Good luck,

 Brett

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by tropicalslinger on Oct 9th, 2011 at 5:16pm
Why not just have different colored belts for the students or competitors to wear, after the fashion of jiujutsu and other sport/martial arts? Just simple tie-on belts--actually they could be Asian martial arts style belts, or if those were hard to obtain or you wanted something unique looking, they could be just sashes made out of strips of colored cloth. They could be cheaper, more compact, and easier to distribute than T shirts, and would have the advantage of being similar to systems that people are already familiar with.  

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by etenil on Oct 10th, 2011 at 4:57am
Just my two cents.

* Make practitionners wear protective helmets
* Standardise the slinging court, with protective nets and so on (for the public)

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Dan on Oct 10th, 2011 at 9:05am

tropicalslinger wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 5:16pm:
Why not just have different colored belts for the students or competitors to wear, after the fashion of jiujutsu and other sport/martial arts? Just simple tie-on belts--actually they could be Asian martial arts style belts, or if those were hard to obtain or you wanted something unique looking, they could be just sashes made out of strips of colored cloth. They could be cheaper, more compact, and easier to distribute than T shirts, and would have the advantage of being similar to systems that people are already familiar with.  


I know that msot new slingers don't really have consistent days. Meaning some have days wher on the first shot the hit the target other days they can't even get the rock to go towards the target. Also belts add a certain level of competitiveness and pride (the bad kind) that you are better. In my 8 years of martial arts expierence, I have found the competitveness of Belts to actually be a bad thing cause they are more worried about belts than what they are actually doing (most schools in the US actually work the "get the next belt" attitude, the kind with 10 year old black belts, we call them belt factories). As a martial arts insrtuctor, a little known secret, we just use the belts so that when we are teaching we know how far along the students are and how advanced we can teach.

Though I would think it might be a good idea (once you get enough people)to buy a few slinging t shirts for people to wear as kind of a uniform and if they wear them around town it is free advertising and people might ask about it and try slinging themselfs.

Anyway maybe get on another local outdoors forum and announce that you would be interested in starting a slinging group and then explain how awesome the sling is.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Rat Man on Oct 10th, 2011 at 9:41am
Hi, Caldou;
  I like your idea.  Your biggest problem will be generating interest, which is why many of us don't start a slinging club.  By instituting a lot of restrictive rules you're only going to hurt yourself.  I can see using a standard target and standard distances.  All of the other rules are superfluous, and will only cost you members.  Some might like a 24" sling, I prefer 38".  Some might like to sling tennis balls; I sling stones.  Some might want only sisal slings to be used. I don't care for sisal all that much.  Some might like Balearic style, some Underhand, some Byzantine, etc., etc., etc...   Don't make a bunch of oppressive rules that will omit perspective members that you're going to have a hard enough time attracting as it is.  
  Good luck and please keep us posted.  

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Rat Man on Oct 10th, 2011 at 9:49am
  As far as where to find members, I've turned dozens of people on to slinging.  These are mostly neighbors who have observed me slinging at various locations as I walk my two Huskies.  They come up to me and ask about it.  I'm sure to always have an "extra" sling to give them.  I'll coach them on their first few shots, tell them about slinging.org,  then leave them to their fun.  I think doing something similar would be a good way for you attract members to your club.  Have a flyer (advertisement) drawn up and hand them out with free slings.  They don't have to be elaborate slings, just safe (not sloppily made; no sling is really safe) ones that work, like a medical tape pouch sling or something easy to make like that.  Attracting members will be the hardest part of your plan. Your English is very good, BTW.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Fundibularius on Oct 11th, 2011 at 3:33am
So I would use my double- oder triple-barrelled slings.  :)

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Rat Man on Oct 13th, 2011 at 5:30pm
That would surely be impressive to a newbie, Fundibularius.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Fundibularius on Oct 14th, 2011 at 2:37am
Perhaps even frightening to one veteran or the other.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on Nov 30th, 2011 at 3:01pm
Some update on this project :

First slinging lesson on saturday... Stage Fright is showing its pointy nose and smelly feet !

I have some basic target, equivalent of the Balearic's diana (I will try to take a picture ! ), I have slings, I have safe ammo...

It will be in the little piece of forest we have in my city and the "students" have some idea of how to use a sling.

So it should be a good time, unless it rains  ::)

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on Jan 13th, 2012 at 9:11am
Now, I appear to have another question :

With my brand new slinging association (paperwork is to be signed this evening ^^), I'm planning to go and participate in some "fantastic fantastic" festival.
Where I will of course demonstrate the sling and let people try to reach the target(s) (my diana sized one and maybe a big bear plushie, should be funnier). So the question is, for all those of you who did participate in such an event : What about the safety mesures ? Tennis ball, ok, shorts slings since its easier to manage, ok but what about the distances ? 10 and 20 meters from the targets but with a net behind and on the sides ? how much space on each side ? and behind ?

In fact, the real question is : how far have you - or one of the student - slung backward ? ;D

And over 2 days, how many slings whould I be ready to give out ? (or sell maybe ? for cheap since it would be some quickly made :) )
I guess it depends on the number of people coming to this event...


Thanks ! ^^

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Steven on Jan 13th, 2012 at 10:21am
I've had early drop-out (2 strand skinny pouch) zingers  :o go as far as 50-70 feet.
oooo! that's gonna leave a mark.  :-[

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Dilyan Ganev on Jan 13th, 2012 at 12:07pm
In moment of great laughter while my friends tried to sling one of them slung a ping-pong ball sized rock at 15 m with very high trajectory...

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Greenman on Jan 14th, 2012 at 1:09pm
Hey Buddy!

Welcome to the weird and wonderfully addictive world of slinging.

I tried to start a sling club and could not find anyone who is interested. I honestly hope you have better luck. Try schools and explain to the students the value of slingers in the "old" days.

You may also try golf driving ranges and pitch the idea that they could gain extra money by opening their range to slingers... Best of luck...

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on Jan 17th, 2012 at 3:34pm
Thanks :)

As a reward ( ::) ), you can gouge your eyes out while looking for the first temporary version of the club website...

Beware, I'm absolutly NOT a graphic designer :P
Nor am I a great advertiser... but, hell, it says the most important : date and place of practice ^^

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by curious_aardvark on Jan 17th, 2012 at 3:40pm
way to go caldou !
I hope you get lots of people turn up at the little red cross.

If I were you I'd make a real red cross on a stick as people will no doubt complain they couldn't find it because the cross wasn't there if you don't  ;D

Good luck with the meetings.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by xxkid123 on Jan 17th, 2012 at 4:00pm
Bonne chance Caldou!

In a rough attempt to practice french i'm going to try and translate the page.

The Association for Slinging as a Sport (AFS) is a sporting association created for the rebirth of slinging in France as a recreational activity. We have organized regular training sessions with the purpose of becoming proficient at target shooting. For the purpose of safety and security, we will being using tennis balls and hacky sacks.

We will hold these meetings on Saturday from 2:30 to 4:30.
The dates for January and February are as follows:


All the words in italics are the ones I didn't know and had to translate via google. the end of the second line was particularly confusing (I didn't know what 'tirer' meant).

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on Jan 17th, 2012 at 5:09pm
XXKid :
Yeah, if you don't know that tirer is to shoot, the second sentence may be very puzzling  ;D
One more literal translation may be :
We have organized regular training sessions, with introduction to different styles, target shooting and games of sling shooting. (Sling baseball anyone ? *)
So Juggling balls are Hacky sacks ? Ok ^^

C_A :
I promise, the day we start shooting rocks and and lead, the Red Cross will be there...
And maybe the military... as a side effect  ;D


* how far from the batter the launcher is in a baseball game ? and how the batter (and the guy behind) would like to have the ball slung at him ?

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by xxkid123 on Jan 17th, 2012 at 10:46pm
juggling balls to me are pretty similar to hacky sacks. at least that's what i've seen every juggler use ;D

the batter is trained to hit whatever comes towards you, and if it does come too close then they'll just move out of the way (a 'ball'- a badly thrown ball that doesn't count). the catcher had plenty of armor that will stop it, and once again his only purpose is too catch the ball, so he's quite safe as well. If you hit the umpire (much like an overseer or judge- he tells whether the ball was in a hittable position or a ball/foul (ball being when the ball was thrown into an area where the batter couldn't possibly hit it, and a foul is when the ball is hit but it flies the wrong way, etc), or if the runner is safe (made it to the base before being struck out) or not. If you hit the umpire...than i  wish you the luck of the gods.  

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on Mar 20th, 2012 at 6:06pm
Paperwork is finished ! I'm officialy The President ! Muahahahhahaaaaaa...

We did a little experiment last sunday :
2 slingers with 3 tennis ball each, 1 Celtic warrior with a shield, 20m and a charge... 1 hit, without a sling (ball send by hand :P ) and only in the shield...

On the other hand, I approached the 100m mark... with a golf ball, but that's still an improvement ^^

If you want to win a "histo-compatible" sling, you're welcome to the "ELFIC"*, where the association (with a Celtic reenactment group) will be on the 12th and 13th of may !
I will prepare special small plushie as the requirement to win the sling ;) ! Who want to come and try his/her luck and skills ?
Thanks to some curious aardvark, there will be a nice bright yellow pennant with a slinger in it, you can't miss us !



* Sorry, the link is only in french... It can be translated as (approximately) "the playful evenments of Fantastic and Imaginary in Centrale" (one of the most famous "grandes écoles" in France).

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on May 14th, 2012 at 1:18pm
As I told you all just above, I just spent this week-end slinging and teaching... I even get an interview ^^

I did'nt take a lot of pictures (in fact, 3) but I get 6 people who put the ball in the target ! Ok, they were between 10 and 20 meters, but most of them were absolut beginners. So they won a seatbelt sling, that I must now make ^^ Should they have managed to put one in the target at 30 meters, it would have been a sling requiring more work... but once they shot once or twice at this distance, they lost hope :P

And more importantly, we (me and my slinging girlfriend, who is the second person in the club) told a lot of people about the Association, and at least 3 of them asked for more info  :)
Sorry, I didn't talk a lot about slinging.org...

There was a lot of wind, so the shots where sometimes... strange, the pennant C_A gave me flyed nicely and my target spend almost more time fallen on the ground than ready to be shot but those were two great days :D

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Pans on Aug 21st, 2012 at 11:09am
I know I'm resurrecting a bit of an old thread, but I'm working my way through the older contributions.

Caldou, how is your club coming along? Did you ever manage to write up a list of rules and specifications? While reading this thread I saw what I considered to be a lot of good, but also some "not-so-good" advice on how best to give slinging legitimacy as a sport.

If it's not too late, may I make some suggestions? I am only a raw novice slinger but I have based these on my knowledge of GNAS rules for competitive target archery in the UK and other target sports.

Only control the aspects that won't interfere with people's ability to participate. In archery nobody tells you what length, weight or stiffness arrows to use, nor what type, draw weight or sighting method your bow should be. These are all a personal choice based on the physical size, ability and personal tastes of the individual. Likewise people should be able to use the sling that suits them and that they can demonstrate an ability to use safely, be it natural or artifical, short or long.
Some of these these are things that can be separated into different competition classes, but should not dictate absolute participation. Bear in mind that you will not always be competing. Most of the time spent in any sport is in practice and training!

I would advise:
- Fixed ranges
- A standard target design and size
- Standardised ammunition for fairness between competitors (considering safety, practicality and reusability)
- The number of  throws each competitor is allowed at any given time
- "Shooting line" etiquette - how many people can sling at a time, how turns are ordered etc.

- Let people choose their own sling length and construction. At most, dictate a minimum and maximum length based on common sense and safety considerations to prevent someone turning up with a 6' sling!

I saw suggestions about uniforms. These add a lot to the respectability of any sport, particularly to those who don't understand it, however I'm sure a dress code would suffice, and even then it would only be needed if you were going to be in the public eye.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by curious_aardvark on Aug 28th, 2012 at 12:09pm

Quote:
I saw suggestions about uniforms. These add a lot to the respectability of any sport, particularly to those who don't understand it, however I'm sure a dress code would suffice, and even then it would only be needed if you were going to be in the public eye.


Just for demos probably. And if david morningstar was involved it would have to involve the wearing of large boots, hats and long coats :-)
Where as I prefer shorts, sandals and t-shirts.

If we ever get that far, then yep worth looking at. Probably just club t-shirts would suffice.

The only thing you said that is not only tricky but also self contradictory is the standardisation of sling ammunition.

It's a good idea - however for target shooting some people prefer heavy weights and some lighter.
Plus you said that nobody tells an archer what kind of arrows they can use - why should a slinger get told what kind of ammo they can use ?

At the moment I know of no commercial product that fits the criteria for target sling ammo. There are numerous things you can make yourself. But if you want proper standardisation then you'd need a factory made item.

Tennis balls are not dense enough. Golf balls richochet back bloody fast. Squash balls filled with sand work extremely well - but aren't exactly easy to make by the hundreds.

The ideal ammunition would probably be some kind of clay or concrete sphere somewhere in size between a golf ball and a tennis ball. weighing between 4-8 oz.

I did build a 'machine' that makes such ammo. But it's not exactly production line tech (lol)

So for the time being you ca pretty much just standardise target and distance.

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Pans on Aug 29th, 2012 at 2:57pm

Quote:
The only thing you said that is not only tricky but also self contradictory is the standardisation of sling ammunition.

Sorry, that's what I get for typing something out as a stream of thought rather than planning it  :-[

Quote:
Tennis balls are not dense enough. Golf balls richochet back bloody fast. Squash balls filled with sand work extremely well - but aren't exactly easy to make by the hundreds.

The real question is, does a personal preference for ammunition mass outweight (no pun intended ::) ) considerations of safety and consistency?

I was looking at your pill roller and crocodile jaws thread last night... did you ever get them working in a satisfactory manner?

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Caldou on Sep 4th, 2012 at 1:39pm

Pans wrote on Aug 21st, 2012 at 11:09am:
Caldou, how is your club coming along? Did you ever manage to write up a list of rules and specifications?

Well, since I moved quite far away (300km++, roughtly many miles) for a new job and I have a lot of work, I decided to have it on stand-by for the time being.


Quote:
If it's not too late, may I make some suggestions? I am only a raw novice slinger but I have based these on my knowledge of GNAS rules for competitive target archery in the UK and other target sports.

It's never too late, some others slingers will want to create clubs too ;)


Quote:
Only control the aspects that won't interfere with people's ability to participate. In archery nobody tells you what length, weight or stiffness arrows to use, nor what type, draw weight or sighting method your bow should be. These are all a personal choice based on the physical size, ability and personal tastes of the individual.

For Archery clubs, I don't know how it is both in the UK and in France, but I heard that some clubs were'nt that open to "strange" bows (longbow, or the one with the little wheels). And they may have the right to forbid you to bring your broadheads or explosive heads to shoot their targets ;)


Quote:
Likewise people should be able to use the sling that suits them and that they can demonstrate an ability to use safely, be it natural or artifical, short or long.
Some of these these are things that can be separated into different competition classes, but should not dictate absolute participation. Bear in mind that you will not always be competing. Most of the time spent in any sport is in practice and training!

That's what I had in mind when I created this thread, but a lot of people jumped on the competition aspect, don't know why ?


Quote:
I would advise:
- Fixed ranges
- A standard target design and size
- Standardised ammunition for fairness between competitors (considering safety, practicality and reusability)
- The number of  throws each competitor is allowed at any given time
- "Shooting line" etiquette - how many people can sling at a time, how turns are ordered etc.

For now, I only have one target, so it's design an size is pretty standard with itself. ^^ It's a circle of 50cm with a bag mounted on a fairly weak PVC tripod, so it's a bit harder to hit than the balearic one (it's diana size), so putting the ball inside the bag is 2 pts, hitting the bag is 1. Making the target fall... is Opts and the right to go set it back.
Concerning ammunition, I have a big bag of tennis balls and some adapted rusty balls so the etiquette is this :
the bag is in front of the target, everybody take one or two and make a line. The first shoot both balls and move out, etc. When everybody have shot, back to the bag for a refill of two balls. When the bag is empty, everybody spread out to find them.


Quote:
- Let people choose their own sling length and construction. At most, dictate a minimum and maximum length based on common sense and safety considerations to prevent someone turning up with a 6' sling!

I have enough slings to share with the firstcomers, but for a starting club, it can be a good idea to lower the 1st year fee and ask the joiners to make 2 slings : one for them and the other for the club. It can be done on a club session, or as an extra, together or alone, as you want


Quote:
I saw suggestions about uniforms. These add a lot to the respectability of any sport, particularly to those who don't understand it, however I'm sure a dress code would suffice, and even then it would only be needed if you were going to be in the public eye.

I'm not sure I want uniforms at all. there is the risk that some people miss the fun because they don't like the uniform. Plus, since I have bad taste in colors, it would be awful for normal people :D

Title: Re: Slinging as a sport
Post by Pans on Sep 4th, 2012 at 5:07pm
I'm glad to hear you've not given up on the idea despite moving away, and it would be amazing to see slinging clubs starting up around the world (outside the Balearic islands)... the world definitely needs more unusual sports to become recognised.


Quote:
For Archery clubs, I don't know how it is both in the UK and in France, but I heard that some clubs were'nt that open to "strange" bows (longbow, or the one with the little wheels). And they may have the right to forbid you to bring your broadheads or explosive heads to shoot their targets ;)


I can safely say that most types of bow can usually be used under GNAS rules in the UK. FITA rounds are more restrictive on equipment, as is olympic archery. I shoot a compound bow (the ones with the cams and wheels), using a scoped sight, a release aid and aluminium/carbon arrows. I once shot alongside a guy shooting instinctive style (no sights, anchored near the eye) with a homemade longbow and wooden arrows. Although we shot together, we were not directly competing because, by our equipment, we were in different classes.
Regarding "funny" points like broadheads, whistlers, flaming or explosive arrows, well, common sense applies. I'd excluded mention of them because my point was more directed more at spine, length and diameter of arrows as a comparison for sling bullet preference, i.e. to allow some room for preference but also to make concessions for fairness and safety.


Quote:
I'm not sure I want uniforms at all

That's fair enough, I only mentioned it because often a dress code can affect how people who don't understand an activity may perceive it. When it comes to slinging, that will be nearly everybody you encounter and it can go along way towards determinging if people find your activity acceptable. Imagine the local busybody who knows nothing of slingers... would they likely judge a group of people dressed similarly and acting in an orderly manner much more generously than they would "a bunch of scruffy hoodlums throwing rocks"?  ;)

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