Does anyone have any experience or opinions on learning martial arts from books or dvds? I would really like to study Krav Maga, but it's hard to find a gym close by that has a certified instructor and doesn't cost a lot (I know it's a lot to ask for to have both in one, but I would pay decent money for a good instructor). I know at Basic Combat Training, most of the drill sergeants were at least MAC Level 2 certified, and the ones who were actual instructors for us we Level 3 or 4, but most of the stuff was pretty simple and there were times we actually resorted to dvds. I've found a few decent books and a good looking DVD set online for decent prices, and I figured it would be ok for the basics, just moving to a gym to hone the basics and learn advanced stuff.

I use DvD's and books to help me develop and remember my Wing Chun forms and techniques, they don't take the place of an initial instructor though. I had a total of ten years all up in Wing Chun and Choy Lay Fut Kung fu and the western combative principles of Lacanne Vigny in the traditional learning environment of the Kwoon (school) and now use the DVD's (produced by my Sifu and other teachers) as a good backup now that I live out far away from any of these training styles. I still keep in touch with my old teachers and can discuss any issues I might have with them.

Krav Marga is a self defense/offense designed as a paramilitary system.  Having not trained in it I am no authority on it. I have not sparred against a Krav Marga exponent but the general drift is that basic training in it will give you very strong fundamentals for self defence. Much the same as the basic training for WW2 marines in unarmed combat. It is not cinematic or pretty but it is devastating and need not have a lengthy training time to be so effective.  

I can recommend the Guided Chaos Combatives books by Mr John Perkins 'Attack Proof 2' and 'How to fight for your life'. I have a pretty extensive Martial arts background and I regretfully liked to test my boundaries as a young man with a lot of 'real' fighting (streets, bars back alleys etc) and I can vouch for Mr Perkins books as something you can learn from by yourself or with a friend. Seriously lethal techniques though, Mr Perkins is a former NYC Detective and a seriously bad man. Have a google of his books and him and you can see for yourself.

I have been studying knife fighting for about 4 years now and the best guide I found was Cold Steel's Warriors Edge, though it is similar to an exercise tape in that just watching it won't make you fit you actually have to do it with them and excersize the drills ;) . Thats why a lot of people say watching a tape won't make you a better fighter, but actually practicing what it says will certainitly help.

Krav maga is a great art I hope your search is sucessful.

dvds I can see. But not books.
At least not until we get the harry potter moving picture style (not as far away as you might think with both flexible oled and the rapidly improving solidstate ebook displays).

Obviously the best way is to learn from someone else. There's no substitute for hands on experience.  

But dvd's are pretty good for learning the forms.

Since I started fooling with martial arts as a young lad in the late 50s, there were no DVDs.  Or much else, for that matter.  Books were what I had, and books have been a source of information for many years.
(Some people are better than others at "book learning", for some reason I'm fairly good at it.)   At any rate, if you can glean technique from the printed page and illustrations, then by all means.  
However, this cannot be the only form of instruction.   When I got into the army at age 17 and started to spar with folks who had actually had some instruction, I found I had a good handle on the basics but almost none on the actual timing of blows, blocks, and the like.

If one is forced to work alone, there are a great many devices one can construct to make training more realistic.... But at some point you are going to have to enlist the aid of actual human opponents.

Compared to what I experienced as a youngster, the student today has comparatively vast resources available, even on the most obscure arts imaginable.

I  agree with c-a. Books while an excellent resource for beginners and reference for more advanced will only take you so far. Intellectually understanding the finds details of a physical technique will not necessarily translate to actual physical skills directly. I may read a complete description about an orange: colour texture taste smell but unless i actually taste one i will never truly experience it. Ok a somewhat flowery metaphor but you get my point.

A book may give you an idea of what a certain techinque entails, but can't correct you if you're doing it wrong. DVD may not be as bad, but it's still not the same as hands-on instruction.

Practicing something wrong makes it twice as hard to learn doing it the right way later.

"No text, no matter how well illustrated or clearly explained can, alone, teach a man how to fight. It can only serve as an instructional guide. Closely supervised intenstive practice is the only path to practical knowledge. There are no easy methods or short cuts. Practice must be intenstive enough to render the mechanics of each technique automatic. There is seldom enough time to stop and think when the pressure of combat is on. *Being able to throw a man is much different from *knowing how".

(R. Applegate, "Kill or be killed !")

Miyagi
Karate ? you ?

Daniel
Yeah

Miyagi
Oh, very good. Learn from book ?

Daniel
Yeah, and a few months at the YMCA at Newark where we live.

(Karate Kid)

Thearos wrote on Mar 27^th, 2011 at 8:23am:

"No text, no matter how well illustrated or clearly explained can, alone, teach a man how to fight. It can only serve as an instructional guide. Closely supervised intenstive practice is the only path to practical knowledge. There are no easy methods or short cuts. Practice must be intenstive enough to render the mechanics of each technique automatic. There is seldom enough time to stop and think when the pressure of combat is on. *Being able to throw a man is much different from *knowing how". (R. Applegate, "Kill or be killed !") Miyagi Karate ? you ? Daniel Yeah Miyagi Oh, very good. Learn from book ? Daniel Yeah, and a few months at the YMCA at Newark where we live. (Karate Kid)

That's a pretty good point. Getting technique down to muscle memory and reflex takes tons of repetitions in practice and sparring, and an instructor is always the best correctional tool a beginner can hope for. It just kind of sucks trying to learn an eclectic martial arts. I would have a partner, as I've already talked to my brother about it and he is very interested, and my step brother has trained in wrestling, muay thai, and brazilian juijitsu, so I'm sure he'd be down for learning with us.

Are you trained in modern Army Combatives ? (escape the mount, passing the guard, shrimping and all that groundfighting stuff) If so, how did you find it ?

If you're starting out, anything such as a DVD or book somewhat works if you have a partner whom you can practice techniques with as opposed to beatin' up the air  ;)
Even so, you have to keep in mind safety, fun times, fun times.

Thearos wrote on Mar 27^th, 2011 at 8:11pm:

Are you trained in modern Army Combatives ? (escape the mount, passing the guard, shrimping and all that groundfighting stuff) If so, how did you find it ?

Yeah, we covered everything in MAC Level 1 at Basic Combat Training

How did you find it ? Some people feel that it's got too much insistance on ground fighting. Did you feel that way ?

Thearos wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 4:08am:

How did you find it ? Some people feel that it's got too much insistance on ground fighting. Did you feel that way ?

Interesting! I wonder if this reflects the advent of the Gracie's and bjj and the surge in interest in mma? No doubt it is very effective, but surely stand-up fighting also has its merits? I always wonder why there has to be the approach that there can only be ONE BEST way to do everything, a sort of fundamentalism if you will. I'm pretty sure if you talked to mma champions they'll say that you need to be equally good at both disciplines.

Just my 2 sents.

You don't intentionally want to go to ground in a fight for your life. However if you do, it's good to know how to counter takedowns and even fight on the ground. Best stay on your feet as much as  possible I reckon...

A thesis making the point about BJJ and its influence on modern army combatives

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA511484

Hi, GreatWhiteWolf;
 I can appreciate where books and CDs might be somewhat helpful, but I couldn't imagine learning martial arts to any degree of proficiency without an instructor.  So much of it is sparing and doing..  I'm not Bruce Lee or anything like that, but I couldn't have learned what I did (mostly Tai Kwan Do and Street Fighting, with some Hapkido and Kung Fu) without skilled instructors.  I'd say yes to CDs and books with it in mind that you'll eventually hook up with a good instructor.  Good luck.

Thearos wrote on Mar 29^th, 2011 at 4:08am:

How did you find it ? Some people feel that it's got too much insistance on ground fighting. Did you feel that way ?

I didn't mind the grounding too much. I think you can control your opponent to a much better degree if you can grab them, especially if you have an advantageous ground position. Boxing and other stand-up styles of fighting rely too much on waiting for your opponent to come in range of your attacks, where as many submissions and even kill strikes are much easier when you have a greater level of control, you know?

I think you need a certain minimum level of skill and experience before books or dvd's become effective.  That way, if something isn't clear, you can usually figure it out.  I've picked up a few techniques from books and videos and made them work in sparring/grappling.  If you have no training and no experience, and there are no schools near by, I suppose it's better than nothing.  You must have a partner and must put in the time, not just watch/read.  

RatMan: there are instructors in Street Fighting ?

My first school taught traditional Tae Kwon Do side by side with a system of Street Fighting invented by the schools' owner, John Korab.  This system borrowed logic and dirty tricks from just about everything.  I liked it very much and to this day think it's quite ingenious.  It gave me a very good foundation to continue learning.  This was back in the early '70s so I couldn't tell you if it's being taught anywhere now, unfortunately.  From there I joined the army.  In M.P. school or A.I.T. the guy who slept in the bunk below me, Mickey Price,  was a 6th degree black belt in Kung Fu (Kung Sanda).  For two months I sparred with him every day.  I still have the scars.  He would get into this )(&^% cat stance and challenge me to attack him.  For two months I did this every day and for two months I didn't score one point on him.  I got a free education and he got a big human punching bag.  From there I was stationed in Seoul, Korea, where I took Hapkido with a ROK Major Song.  It was OK, but I found many of the moves flashy, and just overly elaborate. Consequently they took too much time, IMO.  Besides that I picked up a little of this or that free sparring with my M.P. buddies who were into martial arts.  Once in a while when performing my duties as an M.P. I'd get to test this or that move to see what actually worked in reality.  All in all it was a well rounded education.  Even though I'm old and falling apart now I still have a certain degree of confidence from it.  Sorry for totally digressing.  Sometimes you just start typing....

Stormfront ?-- that's a white supremacist group, no ? Not the most savory place to get info about John Korab.

But v. interesting to read about your experiences as a MP

Yikes!  Sorry, I should have checked it out better.  I just saw my old instructor there and posted it.  I think that anyone who's been here any length of time at all knows that I'm not a racist.

Sorry for raising this. Somehow (remembering some of the more humane posts by you as moderator) I didn't think you went for the shaved head.

Rat Man wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2011 at 5:01pm:

My first school taught traditional Tae Kwon Do side by side with a system of Street Fighting invented by the schools' owner, John Korab.  This system borrowed logic and dirty tricks from just about everything.  I liked it very much and to this day think it's quite ingenious.  It gave me a very good foundation to continue learning.  This was back in the early '70s so I couldn't tell you if it's being taught anywhere now, unfortunately.  From there I joined the army.  In M.P. school or A.I.T. the guy who slept in the bunk below me, Mickey Price,  was a 6th degree black belt in Kung Fu (Kung Sanda).  For two months I sparred with him every day.  I still have the scars.  He would get into this )(&^% cat stance and challenge me to attack him.  For two months I did this every day and for two months I didn't score one point on him.  I got a free education and he got a big human punching bag.  From there I was stationed in Seoul, Korea, where I took Hapkido with a ROK Major Song.  It was OK, but I found many of the moves flashy, and just overly elaborate. Consequently they took too much time, IMO.  Besides that I picked up a little of this or that free sparring with my M.P. buddies who were into martial arts.  Once in a while when performing my duties as an M.P. I'd get to test this or that move to see what actually worked in reality.  All in all it was a well rounded education.  Even though I'm old and falling apart now I still have a certain degree of confidence from it.  Sorry for totally digressing.  Sometimes you just start typing....

That's a pretty impressive resume lol. How'd you like Korea? I had a few buddies from AIT and several instructors who were stationed over there

I was stationed in Korea for 13 months and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything.  It was great duty and I should have (and could have if I wasn't so stupid) spent my entire enlistment there.  How much one enjoys their tour in Korea depends on where they're stationed.  I was an MP in Seoul, which was as good as it got.  Some people were stationed in some lonely little outpost in the middle of nowhere and they'll probably tell you that Korea sucked.
   We had houseboys to do all of our menial chores like starching our fatigues, shining our boots, maintaining our lockers and rooms in the barracks.. all for ten dollars a month.  The U.S. dollar was worth five times as much in Korea at the time so every G.I. was quite well to do.  It was a great life and the duty as an MP Traffic Accident Investigator was very challenging and exciting.  The women were unbelievable.  To this day I'm very fond of Koreans as a people.  They're very high strung, emotional, hard working and industrious, and you'll find no more loyal a friend.  
  So why didn't I do my entire enlistment there?  Stupid little Rat Man got homesick.  So instead of doing my entire three years in this cake situation I went back Stateside to a stinking hell hole called Ft. Campbell.  Stupid.  
  To sum it all up, if you can get stationed in the right place in South Korea it could be the best duty possible and the time of your life.
   I failed to mention that this was in the mid '70s.  I don't know if things have changed since then.