When I read article SLING RANGERS I discovered that Jerzy Gasperowicz has 505 meters. Does anyone know the details? (sling lenght, projectille mass) etc... ::). Why he not make a new world record?

I don't know why he didn't go for an official record, as for the projectile most of that is included in the table Slinging.org keeps up. I'm reasonably sure the guy used to be a professional baseball pitcher, so 505 meters isn't entirely unexpected from him.

505 meters,  thats really far to me,  heck I can't get any further than 200 meters,  if only I had some lead bullets

Knaight wrote on Jan 30^th, 2011 at 4:04pm:

I don't know why he didn't go for an official record, as for the projectile most of that is included in the table Slinging.org keeps up. I'm reasonably sure the guy used to be a professional baseball pitcher, so 505 meters isn't entirely unexpected from him.

I'm not sure that Guiness publishes slinging records any more but at any rate the verification process is quite involved and likely expensive.

Don't think Yurek is/was a professional baseball pitcher. I know he's an engineer by profession and I doubt baseball is played professionally in Poland at any rate. He sure is one hell of a good slinger though.

It mostly depends on the altitude of where your'e slinging at if its high altitude then it go farther.

You will forgive me, but a man does not have enough power to throw at 505 meters away.

You know, have stopped to think what they are 505 meters?

For a projectile fired by a man, even with a sling, reaching to 505 meters away, there must be some additional help

Vicente wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 3:57am:

You will forgive me, but a man does not have enough power to throw at 505 meters away. You know, have stopped to think what they are 505 meters? For a projectile fired by a man, even with a sling, reaching to 505 meters away, there must be some additional help

How can you be so sure Sir that a man can't propel a projectile 505m by his own power?I firmly believe it's possible,even farther.

jlasud wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 6:30am:

Vicente wrote on Feb 2nd, 2011 at 3:57am: You will forgive me, but a man does not have enough power to throw at 505 meters away. You know, have stopped to think what they are 505 meters? For a projectile fired by a man, even with a sling, reaching to 505 meters away, there must be some additional help How can you be so sure Sir that a man can't propel a projectile 505m by his own power?I firmly believe it's possible,even farther.

In my opinion, a human man has not enough power in his arms, even helped with a sling to launch a projectile at 505 meters or 1657 feet away.

I say it's impossible!

Here in the Balearics, we performed tests slingers very powerful men, and reached the maximum distance was 169 meters or 555 feet

Greetings,
Vicente

Also, I think that a projectil launched at a height of two meters at most, a man does not measure much more, can not walk 500 meters without falling earlier.

For a projectile launched by a man, walk more than 500 meters should make a high parabola, and in this case I see it still more impossible

Greetings,
Vicente

Using a 120 cm long sling and aerodynamic lead projectile I believe is truly possible.I'm no way a good slinger,nor a powerful one but I can sling 100g clay ammo 170 m easily everytime,with nice smooth stones I could get 190m.With lead bipointed shape 56g one and a 127cm sling I estimate beyond 350m,and I'm just a young slinging amateur.

On the internet you can find all sorts of information, not all of which is true. I've seen distance claims for trebuchets that I am certain are either exaggerated or fabricated. (One youngster posted a video on YouTube stating that he threw over a 2-story house. Sorry, no way with that treb.)

I can't comment on the truthfulness of Gasperowicz's distance, but it's way out in front of anyone else's claims. When there is a distance more than twice as long as those reported by experienced slingers it does raise doubt. There may well be unusual circumstances involved, like very slippery-shaped ammunition and an extra-long low-drag sling that could boost performance a lot. I realy don't know. But like the Biblical Thomas, i tend to be a doubter.

Vicente wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 10:49am:

I say it's impossible! Here in the Balearics, we performed tests slingers very powerful men, and reached the maximum distance was 169 meters or 555 feet Greetings, Vicente

We have many measured 200m+ throwers here, unfortunately I am not one  :-[

Larry Bray set the Guinness World Record for a stone cast with a sling in 1981, achieving an impressive range of 437m.

The current Guinness World Record distance of an object thrown with a sling stands at 477.0 m, set by David Engvall in 1992 using a metal dart

And the metal darts had of course 4 stabilizing fins that create drag.I've seen a photo with the setup and the darts had more drag than a lead bipointed one would have.And if slinging was just as popular as javelin throwing or basketball than the world record would be at least 600m.I would want to see a dozen of best baseball pitchers given a 1m long sling to practice a year and see the result.

HurlinThom wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 11:50am:

I can't comment on the truthfulness of Gasperowicz's distance, but it's way out in front of anyone else's claims. When there is a distance more than twice as long as those reported by experienced slingers it does raise doubt. There may well be unusual circumstances involved, like very slippery-shaped ammunition and an extra-long low-drag sling that could boost performance a lot. I realy don't know. But like the Biblical Thomas, i tend to be a doubter.

Larry threw stone to 437m, the current 'exotic' record is 477m with a very inefficient rig. The lead weighted dart was held at the tail by a hook release. It was spun and released sideways and had to fishtail wildly until aerodynamic flight was achieved.

Jerry was throwing a lead biconical with a very thin corded sling (spectra fishing line if I remember correctly) so I dont see any reason why 500m should not be achievable with a rifled release.

I think it was C_A that mentioned watching Larry Bray sling golf balls passed the max distance at a golf range. It's not hard to believe watching the video he posted awhile back.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmpyzL4wd4

interesting slinging styles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSslvqt_cis&feature=related

sobieski wrote on Jan 30^th, 2011 at 8:05am:

When I read article SLING RANGERS I discovered that Jerzy Gasperowicz has 505 meters. Does anyone know the details? (sling lenght, projectille mass) etc... ::). Why he not make a new world record?

Here's my two cents, for what it's worth.  I'm not the strongest slinger on this forum and I've slung over 200  meters.  I can believe that an expert can sling 505 meters.  I can't know if this is a truthful distance but I believe that it's certainly possible.

Distance slinging is obviously a different animal than what's normally practiced. Still, 1650+ feet seems like a tremendous distance.

A heavier biconical would retain velocity better than a light one (frontal area squared, mass cubed if linear measurements are doubled), so would that give an advantage provided that the same initial velocity was reached, or would that velocity not be reachable?

To be honest, unless you could see baseball player throw balls at the speed they do (or that amazing softball guy some people posted up not so long ago) would you believe people could throw like that by hand?
As said, 200m is very attainable with just bog standard ammo. Im sure that if someone was able to train themselves up to the quality of a baseballs pitcher with a sling, they could definatly get 500m if not more.

Once again though, just my 2 cents. Although incredibly old, slinging is relatively new if you get my meaning. We are re-discovering things we had long lost, new techniques, new slings etc. Although these may have been common knowledge world wide hundreds of years ago or even in other parts of the world now, it really does feel like in most of our cultures, we are really just getting to learn the sling again.

Nemo

Vincente have your range tests all been done with the Balearic style sling?

jlasud wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 11:30am:

Using a 120 cm long sling and aerodynamic lead projectile I believe is truly possible.I'm no way a good slinger,nor a powerful one but I can sling 100g clay ammo 170 m easily everytime,with nice smooth stones I could get 190m.With lead bipointed shape 56g one and a 127cm sling I estimate beyond 350m,and I'm just a young slinging amateur.

jlasud,

I'm not talking about throwing projectiles of lead or other inventions, I always talk and I think about throwing stones is made by slingers.
Obviously, if here we talk about throwing an object other than a stone, we are distorting the slingers.

Greetings,
Vicente

David Morningstar wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 11:56am:

Vicente wrote on Feb 2nd, 2011 at 10:49am: I say it's impossible! Here in the Balearics, we performed tests slingers very powerful men, and reached the maximum distance was 169 meters or 555 feet Greetings, Vicente We have many measured 200m+ throwers here, unfortunately I am not one  :-[ Larry Bray set the Guinness World Record for a stone cast with a sling in 1981, achieving an impressive range of 437m. The current Guinness World Record distance of an object thrown with a sling stands at 477.0 m, set by David Engvall in 1992 using a metal dart

David,

Metal dart is not a stone, plus a dart has the support of the fins, of course that a metal dart can be thrown long distances.
The slingers primitive stone-throwers, not other objects. The current slingers should also throw stones, otherwise we are distorting the slingers.

Greetins,
Vicente

Morphy wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 4:23pm:

Vincente have your range tests all been done with the Balearic style sling?

Yes, of course.

Greetins,
Vicente

What are we talking about here ? If we need to appeal to "tradition", the ancient Greeks slung lead and darts-- and slung it very far (twice bowshot with lead); slinging is throwing-- anything-- with a sling, not just stones. Of ocurse, if you want, you can establish a "record for stones".

An earlier thread about lead:

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1292448569;start=all

I think a good anology is comparing moderate slingers (us) to professional slingers (those in the greek and roman armies and a few people today).

This is very similar to comparing most people throwing a baseball to professional baseball pitchers. Such power is achievable but only after hundreds if not thousands of hours.

Thearos wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 6:00am:

What are we talking about here ? If we need to appeal to "tradition", the ancient Greeks slung lead and darts-- and slung it very far (twice bowshot with lead); slinging is throwing-- anything-- with a sling, not just stones. Of ocurse, if you want, you can establish a "record for stones". An earlier thread about lead: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1292448569;start=all

The ancient Greeks threw lead with a slingshot?, I have no knowledge.
I can see information about what you said?

Dan wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 9:26am:

I think a good anology is comparing moderate slingers (us) to professional slingers (those in the greek and roman armies and a few people today). This is very similar to comparing most people throwing a baseball to professional baseball pitchers. Such power is achievable but only after hundreds if not thousands of hours.

Right here in the Balearics, our best slingers are people who have been practicing 20 years, some more than 30 years, so it can be considered a professional-looking and are only capable of delivering at least 170 meters away.

Yes, of course.  

Here is a scholarly bibliography:

C. BRÉLAZ, P. DUCREY, Une grappe de balles de fronde en plomb à Érétrie. La technique de fabrication des projectiles et l'usage de la fronde en Grèce ancienne, Antike Kunst 46, 2003, 99-113; W. VISCHER, Antike Schleudergeschosse, in Kleine Schriften, vol. 2, 1877, 240-84; G. FOUGÈRES, s.v. glans, in Ch. DAREMBERG, E. SAGLIO, Dictionnaire des antiquités grecques et romaines, 1877-1919, vol. F-G, 1608-11; M. GUARDUCCI, Epigrafia greca, vol. 2, 1969, 516-24; C. FOSS, A Bullet of Tissaphernes, JHS 95, 1975, 25-30, surtout 28 n. 19; idem, Greek Sling Bullets in Oxford, Arch. Rep. 21, 1974-5, 40-4; W. K. PRITCHETT, Greek State at War vol. 5, 1991, 43-53; A. CHANIOTIS, War in the Hellenistic World, 2005, 95; C. BRÉLAZ, Des balles de fronde à Daskyléion: armes de guerre ou armes de chasse ?, Anatolia Antiqua 15, 2007, 71-82;

Some ancient sources:

in Greek, Xen. Anab. 3.3.16-18, 3.4.16-17 (discussed many many times in this forum-- and indeed in the thread I referred to).

in Latin, e.g.  Aen. 9.587; Ovide, Met. 2.727 (which supposes that Balearic slingers used lead in Roman times)


Many examples found archaeologically. E.g. on the island of Rhodes. Or near Athens. References in Pritchett, below.

For starters, W. K. Pritchett's book on war in ancient Greece, vol. 5. It's on google books

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z1kbyWNJIt0C&pg=PA1&dq=pritchett+greek+state+war+sling+bullet+lead&hl=en&ei=QNJKTaCPGMSohAeNg4y3Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

(also has evidence for darts)

Vicente wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 10:51am:

The ancient Greeks threw lead with a slingshot?, I have no knowledge. I can see information about what you said?

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_results.aspx?orig=%2Fresearch%2Fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&searchText=greek+sling+lead&x=15&y=16&images=on&fromDate=&fromadbc=ad&toDate=&toadbc=ad

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_results.aspx?orig=%2Fresearch%2Fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&searchText=roman+sling+lead&x=0&y=0&images=on&fromDate=&fromadbc=ad&toDate=&toadbc=ad

Luis discusses them in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY7EOspW594

It may be handy to cite ancient sources, but those can be tricky when it comes down to accuracy. People have been lying as long as they have been speaking. OK, exaggerating, stretching the truth, fibbing, engaging in campaign promises, substitute your euphemism. The Romans commented on the Germanic tribes being "honest". I sometimes doubt that they meant that as a compliment, the state of Roman politics being what it was.

Thearos wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 11:05am:

Yes, of course.   Here is a scholarly bibliography: C. BRÉLAZ, P. DUCREY, Une grappe de balles de fronde en plomb à Érétrie. La technique de fabrication des projectiles et l'usage de la fronde en Grèce ancienne, Antike Kunst 46, 2003, 99-113; W. VISCHER, Antike Schleudergeschosse, in Kleine Schriften, vol. 2, 1877, 240-84; G. FOUGÈRES, s.v. glans, in Ch. DAREMBERG, E. SAGLIO, Dictionnaire des antiquités grecques et romaines, 1877-1919, vol. F-G, 1608-11; M. GUARDUCCI, Epigrafia greca, vol. 2, 1969, 516-24; C. FOSS, A Bullet of Tissaphernes, JHS 95, 1975, 25-30, surtout 28 n. 19; idem, Greek Sling Bullets in Oxford, Arch. Rep. 21, 1974-5, 40-4; W. K. PRITCHETT, Greek State at War vol. 5, 1991, 43-53; A. CHANIOTIS, War in the Hellenistic World, 2005, 95; C. BRÉLAZ, Des balles de fronde à Daskyléion: armes de guerre ou armes de chasse ?, Anatolia Antiqua 15, 2007, 71-82; Some ancient sources: in Greek, Xen. Anab. 3.3.16-18, 3.4.16-17 (discussed many many times in this forum-- and indeed in the thread I referred to). in Latin, e.g.  Aen. 9.587; Ovide, Met. 2.727 (which supposes that Balearic slingers used lead in Roman times) Many examples found archaeologically. E.g. on the island of Rhodes. Or near Athens. References in Pritchett, below. For starters, W. K. Pritchett's book on war in ancient Greece, vol. 5. It's on google books http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z1kbyWNJIt0C&pg=PA1&dq=pritchett+greek+state+war+sling+bullet+lead&hl=en&ei=QNJKTaCPGMSohAeNg4y3Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false (also has evidence for darts)

Thank you very much, every day I learn things.
But really you think a person can throw a projectile even lead to more than 500 yards away?

Also in Spanish by Hondero:


http://www.slinging.org/wiki/index.php?title=Historia_de_la_Honda_19



can you reach 500m with a lead bullet ? I don't know, I started a thread because I wanted to find out. Now if you, an experienced slinger, think this unlikely, I note and respect your opinion; other people thought it possible.

HurlinThom: yes, but this just lists of people saying "and lead bullets were used by slingers in this battle", or Xenophon's eyewitness account of sling bullets being used in battle. Either it's true, or it's made up (or misremembered)-- but it's not a case of distortion or bias.  

Vicente, I don't think it's possible to achieve these longer distances with the Balearic style sling. And your experiences reaffirms my belief in that regard.  The Balearic sling is superbly made for it's intended purpose but if you want to get to the longer distances you might try other styles of slings.

Thearos, I'm more a student of human nature than ancient warfare, so I haven't read Xenophon. Some of the claims made by others sound like "all the slingers from (your favorite locale) could hit a grasshopper at a distance of two stadia every time". Roughly an American quarter-mile. (Only mildly exaggerated for effect.)

Two very sober descriptions of aimed tactical fire, and its accuracy:

Livy 38.29 for the siege of Same in 189 re accurate aimed fire against sorties
Thuc. 2.81 for Akarnanian slinger-sniping in 429 BC.  

-- from a general thread on the topic:

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1257730993;start=all

Still, I note the point by Vicente: he pulls range estimates downwards, and finds 500m incredible.  I do note that Jaegoor, who slings Balearic-style, makes claims, with stones, well beyond the 180 m range Vicente proposes.

My theory on the possibility of reaching over 500 meters, is not based on style, rather the force that a man has. Keep in mind that to reach 500 meters or more, must be given great strength to the sling during launch, and in this sense I doubt very much that a person can print as much power at launch.

Greetings,
Vicente

Myself, I can't sling a golf ball beyond 100 m; I can believe 180m; and yes, it's true that say 450 m is striking, if true. When we discussed the matter with lead bullets, the question arose and is still being talked about: how would you *aim at anything if slinging at that kind of range ?

It can only be saturation bombardment. Lets try some guesstimates and calculations:

500 slingers, each with 50 shots, or about 2 kg, 4.5 lbs of ammo.

Slinging a shot every 6 seconds (I have done better than this against the clock) they will get ten shots each in one minute, a total of 5000 shots.

Lets say they are slinging to 400 meters (easily exceeded by the current Guinness record holders)

Suppose their accuracy is such that all their shots fall in an forty by eighty meter area at that distance. Their side-to-side accuracy is still good but the range estimation is more difficult.

That area has 3,200 square meters. In the first minute, 5000 shots fall into 3,200 square meters, more than 80 shots per second.

Now, the guys in this target area are heavily armoured and will have shields raised against this storm of lead bullets. Suppose only 1% of the incoming shots causes a kill or serious injury, a total of fifty casualties. Thats a guy screaming and collapsing to the ground every 1.2 seconds!

And the slingers can keep this up for five minutes.....  :o

Although I dont deny strength has alot to do with distance throwing, I think one of the most important things is a perfect technique. The smoother and more fluid you can make your motions, the less energy is wasted in trying to make the rock go where you want.  Ofcourse you need the strength to eventually gain the speed needed while pulling a rock, but I think this is still do able.
Also, I dont know if anyone else knows, but what was the style used in any of these records? I thought it was pirouette, but I think Aussie posted a video a while back of one of the distance throwers playing sling golf using a style similar to Byzantine?

As David posted, some the of the stats you can put out there of slingers in units bombarding are impressive. Assuming each slinger lets off a stone every 6 second (should be easily achievable after a bit of practise) then that is 10 stones a minute. I forget the unit size mentioned, but 200 slingers is easily achieveable if you put some on either side of your line and target one area. This would mean they are pumping out 2,000 shots per minute at one unit, I think someone mentioned comparable to 2 machine guns or something. Really scary figures.

Nemo

What is really amazing about Yurek’s number is his location is at a relatively low point above sea level compared to the two most recent record holders who slung at over a mile a.s.l. where the air is more rarefied.  

Lead has been estimated to give a +50% distance compared to a rock of the same mass.
So if the Balearic slingers today can sling 160 meters, then with lead, they could theoretically reach 240 meters.  

Add a tall, steep natural feature that gives you an extra advantage. If you´re standing on a 500 meter mount, your shots will reach much further distance.

And finally, let´s put our slinger in the mountains of Tibet, where the atmosphere is very thin.

Can he reach 500 meters? I don´t know, guessing is all I can do at this point.

I think lead at least doubles the range as with stones.Historical data says it also.Some turkish shepherds  were being tested by a guy and they average shots were 200 yards and 240yards the best.And thats with stones,give these guys a long thin sling and lead,some acomodation time,practice and you'll get min 450m-500m.And to Vicente,with a turkish bow a 800m + flight was achieved and a bow is only as strong as the person who draws it,as a bow just stores energy until release.Of course drawing a bow is a different story than slinging but is an example that human power can send projectiles a looong way.

That's Korfmann, in his book on slings, and also his Scientific American article-- he asked Turkish shepherds to have a go, and clocked these v. long distances.

While watching the video of Larry Bray slinging golf balls it's hard for me to believe they went less than 200 meters let alone 170. Granted a stone and a golf ball are different but not 300+ meters different.

If the best Balearic slingers could get 300ms or so it would make more sense to me that they would find 400+ impossible. But for it to be only 170ms I believe it must be the sling. The Balearic style is quite powerful as are the slingers themselves. The variable most likely to be the culprit (to my mind) must lie with the materials and construction of the sling.

sobieski wrote on Jan 30^th, 2011 at 8:05am:

When I read article SLING RANGERS I discovered that Jerzy Gasperowicz has 505 meters. Does anyone know the details? (sling lenght, projectille mass) etc... ::). Why he not make a new world record?

Welcome Sobieski!

I though you are from Poland because of your nick. There was a Polish king who had the same second name :)

You can find some details in this topic:

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1175645485/0

There are more informations in earlier topics, but they are scattered, so some searching is needed.

Vicente wrote on Feb 4^th, 2011 at 1:54am:

My theory on the possibility of reaching over 500 meters, is not based on style, rather the force that a man has. Keep in mind that to reach 500 meters or more, must be given great strength to the sling during launch, and in this sense I doubt very much that a person can print as much power at launch. Greetings, Vicente

Vincente,

My experience is quite different. I am pretty sure that the key is just style, timing and finally some power, not mentioning the sling and ammo. I am not a strong man and I am not a young one either. I am pretty sure that there are many stronger slingers either around the forum or on your nice islands.

You said that no human is able to deliver enough power to the projectile in order to send it 500 m away.

Then lets do some brief calculations to verify your statement. In our purpose we can take assumption that the needed launch velocity is 80 m/s (maybe it is too much, but in this case even better). In the tries i used 90 gram lead projectiles. We can easily calculate the kinetic energy of the one just after release.

E = 1/2 * m * v^2 = 1/2 * 0,09 kg * (80 m/s)^2 = 288 joules

There is a spin of the missile though, so lets say we need to provide 300 joules (i think it is a bit over estimated value though) to it in order to send it over 500 m away.

For comparison lets take a hammer thrower. I just did some research in the Internet and found that a throwing the hammer of weight 7,3 kg with the launch velocity of 29 m/s isn't a great stunt in this sport.

So lets calculate the kinetic energy of the hammer:

E = 1/2 * 7,3 * 29^2 = 3070 joules

The quick calculations show in a simple way that a hammer thrower is able to provide at least 10 times more energy to his flying hammer than is needed to launch the 90 grams of lead over 500 m away. In fact he does it somewhat slower but his projectile is way heavier than 90 grams, so much much more power is still needed anyway.

We have enough of energy and power. The key is a good transfer of energy to the projectile.

I saw Balearic slingers on the video you posted. I think they are pretty good. I would like be so accurate like them and have that technique. I think we all need to learn one from another all the time.

Greetings Jurek

Yurek, I believe that you got 505 m.Could you give some details? I read somewhere that it even hit some part of a bridge and,it would've gone even further.Was that a 90g lead projectile? bipointed form,ratio lenght to width.A thin long sling measuring 120+cm?I'm really interested on every detail you could give,some photos would be great.Once I said I'm going to break the world record.Now that I read what you posted about their weird rules,I won't try it to make it official,just for myself.Near my hometown theres a lake with a 500m barrage,I want to test my max distance there.How did you find\see the projectile as this is the most difficult part in the process,at least as I see it.I'll probably have to train a bit my style to get to 500m :D.What style did you use,what pouch?A lot of questions I hope to get answer to.At least to the ones that are not CLASSIFIED 8-)

Interesting thread.

first, balearic slingers tend to sling pretty hefty rocks with fairly short slings.
167 metres with a half pound rock is pretty good slinging in anyone's book.

But traditionally - in rome and greece - professional sling projectiles were shaped lead glandes averaging 2-3 ounces - 50-75ish grams in weight.
The greeks and romans also generally used much longer slings than the balearics.

At the time I was one of the most vocal sceptics of yureks distance claim.
But knowing the integrity of the man and having seen both jurek and larry bray sling I definitely believe him.
Both he and his wife heard the glande impact on a metal bridge. Yurek measured (not estimated) the distance from his launch position to the bridge.
Had the bridge not got in the way the throw would have been longer but impossible to measure.

Why is it not an actual world record ?
Because the throw was not conducted under official circumstances with official witnesses from the guinness corporation present.
And the glande was never recovered.
Yurek is one of the few slingers who makes real use of a short run up. With most slingers the run up is pointless, but yureks definitely helps his throw.  

It is interesting that - as far as I know - NOBODY has ever attempted an official world record throw with a traditional lead glande.

So the official slinging world record is there for the taking. :-)

All you need is a 50 inch sling, 2.5 oz lead glande, exceptional technique and a minituarised gps tracker inside the glande - 'cos that's probably the only way you'll ever be able to recover it. Lead glandes burrow into the ground on impact and are almost impossible to find thereafter.

Vicente, I've slung over 240 metres with a 30 inch sling and carefully selected  rocks - again in the 2-3 oz weight range.
Measured in two different countries and altitudes with 2 different length slings and 2 different techniques. The fact that I was knackered and had a buggered up elbow for the throw in wyoming is neither here nor there lol

I might be able to match the balearic slingers for distance with a short sling and a much larger stone, but I doubt it.
 
So the balearic slinging record is done with vastly different conditions and equipment than any thing outside of the balearics.
 
Larry bray was a pitcher in his youth and you can definitely see that reflected in his style.
But what yurek and larry have most in common is the ability to transfer a tremendous amount of the energy they generate during the throw into the release point of the sling's missile.

Neither one is a large or heavily muscled individual - it's having the right sling and missile and superb technique that really makes the difference.  

2 Very different techniques, but equally skilled slingers and very similiar equipment.   Larry's rock (he still has it) is a dense glande shaped stone, not as dense as lead.
Who knows what the current world record would be if the young larry bray had used a shaped lead glande ?
I think yureks throw gives us a good example if what is possible with the right equipment and in the right circumsyances with an exceptional slinger.

jlasud,

On the previous site of this topic i posted the link to the thread where the details of my attempt were discussed. If you follow my posts there you will find answers to most of your questions (measurements, etc). Anyway, I used football shaped lead glandes, weight of each one was 90 grams. The sling wasn't especially sophisticated, the pouch made from leather was narrow and had a small split in the center, its ears were enforced with additional pieces of leather glued to them. The cords i made of  the core I had pulled out of a braided 6 mm thick rope, their diameter was 3.5 mm and they were equipped with comfortable release knot and finger loop. The sling was of length 1.2 m. If i find a picture i will post it here. Unfortunately, all my pictures on the forum have been lost, they were hosted on an outside server.

Not all my throws during the attempt (attempts) were successful of course. The difference between the longest one and shortest was 150m or maybe even more. I would rather not tell 'aloud' how far behind the 500 m line i have sent the furthest glande, because it is only my guess. I can just be sure that i have passed the 500 m, what was my aim then. Read please the mentioned topic, you will understand why.

Anyway, just like you i believe that one day a strong and well trained slinger will send a projectile over 600 m. There was a time i used to believe that i could do it.

I wish you luck. Keep us informed and feel free to ask questions. It is difficult to me to describe everything in a one post.

Jurek

Yurek,I searched and read your post you directed me to.But I still have a question about the style you used.I read somewhere that you used a short run up.Could you describe your style?It must be some kind of an overhand,maybe,sidearmish,but surely not underhand ::) I use the balearic style for long sling,long distance.Fig.8 is not so practical with my 125 cm sling and not so long arms.On the previous thread I read some interesting ideas regarding to finding the projectile using a key finder or mini built in GPS.After a little search,I saw that these aren't so tiny gadgets to fit in a small projectile required to get extreme ranges.The smallest device that I know of is  the LED setup found in lighters.I made and used these,and are fun but decreased the range significantly compared to regular lead ammo.They were not assembled for best range performance though.

Look up Lumenok on YouTube, one of those inset into the tail of a glande would be perfect.

David Morningstar wrote on Feb 8^th, 2011 at 1:31pm:

Look up Lumenok on YouTube, one of those inset into the tail of a glande would be perfect.

The LED setup found in lighters in basically the same thing,and it's probably even smaller,cheaper and more available,at least for me.

nah a light wuld be no good. Glandes bury themselves quite deep. What you would actually need is a tiny radio frequency tracker inside the glande with an aerial laid along the outside of the body of the glande.

Something similiar to the cheapish dog collars that have built in radio transmitters would probably do the trick.

Wouldn't that just smash on impact?

jlasud wrote on Feb 8^th, 2011 at 2:58am:

Yurek,I searched and read your post you directed me to.But I still have a question about the style you used.I read somewhere that you used a short run up.Could you describe your style?It must be some kind of an overhand,maybe,sidearmish,but surely not underhand ::) I use the balearic style for long sling,long distance.Fig.8 is not so practical with my 125 cm sling and not so long arms.On the previous thread I read some interesting ideas regarding to finding the projectile using a key finder or mini built in GPS.After a little search,I saw that these aren't so tiny gadgets to fit in a small projectile required to get extreme ranges.The smallest device that I know of is  the LED setup found in lighters.I made and used these,and are fun but decreased the range significantly compared to regular lead ammo.They were not assembled for best range performance though.

Jlasud,

I used an overhand style with some initial rotations to synchronize my legs with the sling, you know just to feel the rhythm. The run up was rather kind of a slight jump (i can't find a proper word) on my rear (right) leg in order to get stronger action of the body during the final lash.

As nemo has written before the most important thing is the fluid and smooth pulling the sling to efficient transfer of the energy. It maybe sounds a bit paradoxically when we are talking about the "high velocity slinging", where you have to be as rapid as possible and no way to be "smooth and fluid". Alas just a brute force isn't enough.

When you sling slowly you can control your moves and the sling easily, but when you rush it becomes very difficult or impossible. So i think the only way is to drill the optimal but automated moves of the entire body, arm, elbow and palm.  I believe that there is something like a "resonance of the sling". If you match all the conditions (the optimal trajectory of the grip and its velocity, proper distribution of the pulling force...) and 'hit the resonance' then the projectile will go like hell, and you will get an impression that the sling itself did the job. The shot was pleasant and effortless. In the opposite case you will feel your effort partially wasted. The border between a very good shot and a good shot is very thin and nuances are often behind our perception. I still have some amount of frustrating shots, lots of good ones and only sometimes the best ones.

The another important things are to start the final acceleration as quickly as possible and have a good tension of the sling just before it.

I can't say which style is better, overhand, backside, underhand or pirouette. If someone is able to hit the "resonance of the the sling" using one of them, that one will be good for him. The key is to find and develop the proper automated action.  

Sorry if am incomprehensible, but i can't explain it better in few words. But i am sure you got it.

I have no idea how to retrieve and measure the each glande, as long you don't have for example an abandoned runway near you or something like that. I used to sling some lead glandes on a runway, there wasn't problem to find them. Though they was destroyed by the impact on the concrete plates. Maybe silinging into water is a solution. Just measure a given distance from the shore and try whether you are able to reach the water.

I want lights in my lead bullets-- tracer ammo for slings !

I have no idea how to retrieve and measure the each glande, as long you don't have for example an abandoned runway near you or something like that. I used to sling some lead glandes on a runway, there wasn't problem to find them. Though they was destroyed by the impact on the concrete plates. Maybe silinging into water is a solution. Just measure a given distance from the shore and try whether you are able to reach the water.
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Are there any official requirements/restrictions for record distance in Quinness Book or others?  Obviously a throw into water is all carry and no roll. Throwing on a paved runway with a golf ball for example will give an exaggerated measurement as would a throw on a frozen lake. Wind would also make a difference. Elevation has been mentioned as well.

I have thought to make measurements using my laser range finder. (that I use for golf)  It is very accurate but it doesn’t work very well aimed at water. It might be able to reflect off of the splash of a landing projectile if someone could focus on that quickly enough.
I will have to experiment with that. I could also find the projectile (on land) and use the range finder to easily measure the distance.

Thanks Yurek for sharing your experience,I myself have observed that the longest throws are the ones that are smooth,relaxed and quick,accelerating the sling gradually,putting the most tension on the cords possible.The more the speed,the more tension,more tension means more centrifugal force and the more of it the more the projectile kicks of the pouch.Thearos,these LED glandes are fun,and not hard to make and also cheap.You can put them in drilled stone,ceramic,lead,concrete or even tennis ball,golf ball.A while ago I started a topic with ~LED tracer glandes~or with similar title.

scoteeball wrote on Feb 10^th, 2011 at 7:51pm:

Are there any official requirements/restrictions for record distance in Quinness Book or others?  Obviously a throw into water is all carry and no roll. Throwing on a paved runway with a golf ball for example will give an exaggerated measurement as would a throw on a frozen lake.

When slinging for distance the roll is not included. Distance is measured from the point of launch to the point of impact, so no advantage is gained by having a smooth surface. The actual distance measuring is not usually the problem, especially these days when GPS is so readily avaiable and gives sub-metre precision. The difficulty is knowing where to measure to. At these enormous distances it's impossible to see exactly where the stone or other projectile has landed and if the thing has buried itself on impact you may never be able to find it.

Even Larry Bray's record of 437 m is based on the best distance of a stone that was found. He threw others at the time and it's quite possible some others went further.

I wonder if the most reliable way to find the distance is to sling at something on which a hit easily registers, such as a small lake where the splash can be seen, or an old tin shed where the impact can be easily heard and gradually back away until it's obvious that all shots are falling short. Then measure to the last known successful launching spot. With both the observer party and the slinger's party in contact with cell-phones or walkie talkies, communication should be easy.

When slinging for distance the roll is not included. Distance is measured from the point of launch to the point of impact, so no advantage is gained by having a smooth surface. The actual distance measuring is not usually the problem, especially these days when GPS is so readily avaiable and gives sub-metre precision. The difficulty is knowing where to measure to. At these enormous distances it's impossible to see exactly where the stone or other projectile has landed and if the thing has buried itself on impact you may never be able to find it. (quote)

Even Larry Bray's record of 437 m is based on the best distance of a stone that was found. He threw others at the time and it's quite possible some others went further.(quote)


Unless the stone that was found was embedded in it's pitch mark there was some forward bounce and roll but never the less, one hell of a throw!

scoteeball wrote on Feb 11^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

Unless the stone that was found was embedded in it's pitch mark there was some forward bounce and roll but never the less, one hell of a throw!

As I understand it, part of the reason we know lead will bury itself in the ground is that Larry's shots did the same, and he was using stones much less dense than lead.

Also take into consideration that the Balearic home is an island. Slinging at sea level is not the best place to try slinging for distance.

When I was slinging rocks at the sea, I was surprised to see that my shots fell short of my usual distance. I quickly realized that the thick atmosphere was slowing my rocks.

A few of the leaden glandes i threw on the runway were covered with the thin layer of breakable orange paint. So i was able to find the impact points of some of them. Around the points there were small crumbs of the paint. I found no glande further than 5 m from its impact point. The lead is soft and it amortizes the impact pretty well. Despite of it the angle of the impact is relatively big, much bigger than the angle of the toss though. I think it is one of easier ways, of course if you have an access to a piece of a runway.

Rockman wrote on Feb 12^th, 2011 at 3:00pm:

Also take into consideration that the Balearic home is an island. Slinging at sea level is not the best place to try slinging for distance. When I was slinging rocks at the sea, I was surprised to see that my shots fell short of my usual distance. I quickly realized that the thick atmosphere was slowing my rocks.

Leaden projectiles due its density aren't as much sensible to air density or wind as stones. I have done the attempts 72 m over the sea level and there was frost. Of course if one have a perfect consistent technique it could be significant.

[edit]As I understand it, part of the reason we know lead will bury itself in the ground is that Larry's shots did the same, and he was using stones much less dense than lead[/edit]

mainly it's down to spin. Glandes fly well in part because of the spin effect self orienting the glande.
So effectively a glande shaped projectile will actively drill it's way into the ground.

From a personal point of view I've had larry sling lead glandes at me and even one that landed about 8 feet in front of me - I could never find.
It wasn't quite as suicidal as it sounds lol

I disagree with the drill part, unless the gland is rotating at speeds approaching electric drill speeds, plain old momentumn is what is going to make it dig into the ground.  And for a small projectile, it doesn't have to go all that deep to make finding it almost impossible.  Bill

disgaree away -  you're quite wrong :-)
It's the high speed of spin that makes glande shaped missiles so effective.

You would not get significant penetration of glande into humans if it were not for the high rate of spin, and as the romans had specific instruments for removing leag sling bullets from people - we know penetration with lead glandes was common.

The spin rates you get with a glande and a good throw are probably easily as high as an electric drill. Not as much as a bullet fired with a rifled barrel firearm, but certainly it is s very significant effect.

The rpm maintains an on axis flight and hopefully a point first hit. No meaningful drilling takes place because of the low rotation rate per unit of distance, which can be as low as 3 turns in each lineal meter. The penetration is solely determined by impact force, nature of projectile and target.

HYPOTHETICAL  SLING  

50 mps ave. @ 50 m gives 150 turns in 1 second and 9,000 rpm

HYPOTHETICAL RIFLED FIREARM      

500 mps ave. @ 50 m gives 150 turns in .1 second and 90,000 rpm

For what it's worth regarding penetration, I've had ballasted tennis balls (8 oz) come down from fairly high throws and dig their way into soft turf to the full depth of the ball, spinning but with the axis of spin at 90 degrees to the direction of fall (backspin). A lead glande hitting point on should have no trouble penetrating flesh.

Curious Aardvark wrote on Feb 14^th, 2011 at 12:40pm:

disgaree away -  you're quite wrong :-) It's the high speed of spin that makes glande shaped missiles so effective. You would not get significant penetration of glande into humans if it were not for the high rate of spin, and as the romans had specific instruments for removing leag sling bullets from people - we know penetration with lead glandes was common. The spin rates you get with a glande and a good throw are probably easily as high as an electric drill. Not as much as a bullet fired with a rifled barrel firearm, but certainly it is s very significant effect.

Sorry, Old Chap, I've heard you make that claim before. Whilst I cannot prove it to be untrue I suspect you'd have a devil of a time proving it is.

Sure the gland is spinning rapidly, but it's also moving forward very rapidly so the ratio of spin to travel is really quite low. Even when drilling soft materials a drill advances only millimetres for every revolution, and then under power. A sling projectile has only a very small percentage of its kinetic enery due to rotation, nearly all is due to forward motion.

The spin is essential in keeping the gland flying point forward, exactly the same as a rifle bullet. This materially aids in accuracy, but I doubt it adds much to the striking force.

Does anybody have any idea how fast a gland is spinning or is everybody just guessing?  Spinning usually decreases penetration, that is why modern tanks have smooth bore barrels and shoot fin stabized projectiles.  The fins are angeled so they do rotate, just enough to keep them stable in flight.  The velocity and weight of the projectile causes it to penetrate.  Bill  

The majority of the spin on a projectile is induced as it comes out of the pouch on release. There is also some due to the actual rotation of the sling but this is comparatively small. The pouch does not let go instantly but opens from one side allowing the projectile to roll out. So, the rate of spin varies considerably dependent on the centrifugal force, the diameter of the projectile, the degree of grip between the projectile and pouch, etc. I know from observation that when I sling tennis balls they rotate comparatively slowly; I estimate no mor than ten revs per sec or 600 RPM. However judging from the sound of small whirring stones, similar to the sound of transformers, I estimate their rotational speed to be up around 3000 RPM.

Lead glandes never had drill tips,how could they drill? :o even if you made them like that,it would cost you quite a bit of it's aerodynamics,and even decrease penetration in my opinion.A projectiles spinning is helping only it's stability.And after traveling 400m they probably would lose most of it's spinning,so at impact a few spins per meter won't matter much.Not to mention when a lead gland would hit flesh,the spinning would be much sooner stopped than the forward motion.Overall I say spinning is good for stability in flight,and doesn't matter at penetration,when were talking slings,and lead.

Morphy wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 1:59pm:

I think it was C_A that mentioned watching Larry Bray sling golf balls passed the max distance at a golf range. It's not hard to believe watching the video he posted awhile back. [url=www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmpyzL4wd4[/url][/quote]]www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmpyzL4wd4

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It's good to know that I'm not necessarily doing something wrong because I don't get a whip-crack on my release. My slings make a sound a lot like Larry's did in that video.

I'd love to be able to sling a golf ball farther than good golfers can drive them. It's been a while since I got out with a bag of balls on a long open field. Have to do that again soon. I've done some slow-and-easy practice (as I've posted about here) and I do feel a need to get out and cut loose, soon.

Its interesting to read Yurek's thoughts on how to generate maximum power. I have the same conclusions.

I'm no distance slinger, but I can definitely agree with his concept of the "resonance" of any given sling. It's something you can feel swapping between different slings even just with tennis balls, assuming you slow down enough to really feel the sling as you throw.

Sling weight, weight distribution, stiffness, projectile weight, projectile density all have an effect on this, so you have to find the perfect balance/speed for your combination of factors to get the most of out your throw.

I think this is the same effect I've seen with slingers that normally use heavy/stiff slings and then test out a light/floppy sling. They try to "muscle" the throw like they would with their heavy sling, but you simply can't put energy into a light sling in a short period of time like that - it can't "keep up" with the acceleration in a short period of time and you end up with a fouled shot. You have to spread the energy over the whole powerstroke rather than trying to force it in within the last 30% of the stroke.

erricrice wrote on Mar 4^th, 2026 at 10:43am:

They try to "muscle" the throw like they would with their heavy sling

I admittedly do this constantly.  It takes me a good while to adjust back to a thin corded sling.  A great observation that it's not only about release timing, but very much how and when power is getting applied.