Slinging.org Forum
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl
General >> Other Primitive Weapons >> ATLATLS & DARTS
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1247874616

Message started by paleoarts on Jul 17th, 2009 at 7:50pm

Title: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by paleoarts on Jul 17th, 2009 at 7:50pm
here are a few of mine.
l_eca358e97b304489ac4ccdf5ea0ca35f.jpg (31 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 17th, 2009 at 7:53pm
and some darts
l_c60e435f2a8d44028e42ad31ed2e950f.jpg (57 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 17th, 2009 at 8:01pm
i like the black one you have there..whats the mesurements on it?

heres the one i have..but its not the best. ill probly be making a better one soon
:-[

atlatl_and_dart.png (1050 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 17th, 2009 at 8:13pm
what are you talking about, aztec? that's wicked cool! i love the long spur. is that bone? the dark one is my war atlatl. it's 26" long and has fairly sharp edges so it does double duty as atlatl and war club.
l_46ad2b14d87c4f1dbb082a2bc36fb16c.jpg (28 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 17th, 2009 at 8:16pm
its an antler spur and actuly its a little to long . so if the hole in the end of the dart is too deep itll cause it to kinda kick up.  but ive been makin do  ;D

yea i like that one alot. how wide /thin is it? thanks

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 17th, 2009 at 8:38pm
it's about 4" at the widest part and maybe 3/4" at the thickest.
l_731fa79801854d56aee60a4c083efb3b.jpg (22 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:08pm
thanks..you have inspired me

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 18th, 2009 at 5:41am
These are the working ends of my first two atlatls. You dont need to be a woodworking genius to get something chuckable!





This was my next one. I had to round off the antler spur some more because it wasnt releasing the dart cleanly.





Some fletching and a scarfed foreshaft.





I cleaned up my early throwers, this is one of them



This is my best ever, Ozark Bluff style. It is now with the Manchester Museum archery curator.



I also have a Basketmaker and a Magdalenian both half completed.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:19am
WOW Paleoarts. I really like the grip on the first one from the left. And it just so happens I have a piece of fire-killed juniper waiting for a purpose!

OK, a few questions.

First, Paleoarts, what is the third one from the left made from?
Second, Morningstar, how did you add more than one picture to your post? Is it just HTML coding?

Here is my atlatl. It still needs a banner and bannerstone added, along with finger loops. It's made from the last piece of oak flooring I had from our old house (destroyed by fire), and a piece of pine left over from the framework of our new house. THe hook is some more oak flooring and a piece of laminate flooring from our new house. I coated the end of the hook with super glue to keep it from wearing out so fast. I cheated and mimicked Atlatl Bob's "Warrior" model (http://www.atlatl.com/warrior.html) and weighted the handle with a piece of rebar left over from building our front porch. The whole thing is about 18 inches long.
myatlatl.jpg (25 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:22am
And these are my darts. The primitive one is bamboo with chicken feather fletching and an oak foreshaft (not shown in the picture, but it's there now). The head is a large nail I pounded flat, filed to shape, then heated on a propane weed burner at work, and quenched in my water bottle (after which I didn't drink any water). The others are made from Easton aluminum arrows with field points.

K'Jev
8-)
100_0488.jpg (39 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 18th, 2009 at 7:23am

I use img tags to display images:



Which gives:



Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 18th, 2009 at 8:31am
david, that tree branch thrower is awesome!

kjev, really like yours alot. never thought to do a composite! i like your dart as well. my 'aluetian' model is usually made from redwood but that particular one is monterey pine.

also, david, here's a closeup of the 'point barrow'. i can also make this with a bone spur if you prefer.
l_947d3e4fff3949a9b75e23500170a253.jpg (66 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 18th, 2009 at 3:20pm
I'll go with a bone spur, right handed  8-)

[EDIT]

This is a link to a build-along thread I did during the making of that branch atlatl: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/22311

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Fëanor on Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:06pm
Was out all day today finding some wood for making my first atlatl, actually I was out all day yesterday to and found some ash which I took home and was going to steam shape but I over bent it and it broke.
Went to another place today and finally had to settle for some birch.
Going back to the first place in the morning and getting some more ash.
Now there is just the problem of curing the wood because there is no way I am waiting a year for it to cure and my oven is quite small so I might have to go with a composite and drying shorter pieces..
Oh well, get back when I have pictures.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:19pm

Nah, make it now all in one go and oil it up when you are done. Primitive woodwork, even bow making was done with wood either fresh off the tree or dried a bit over hot coals. Its a living material - work with the way it works, dont bake it into submission.  

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Fëanor on Jul 19th, 2009 at 1:00am

David Morningstar wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:19pm:
Nah, make it now all in one go and oil it up when you are done. Primitive woodwork, even bow making was done with wood either fresh off the tree or dried a bit over hot coals. Its a living material - work with the way it works, dont bake it into submission.  

Aight, but if it cracks you owe me one piece of birch. ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 19th, 2009 at 4:57am
im working on a new one. if it all goes like i plan itll look  kinda like your egyption atlatl ,paleoarts.  ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:39am

Fëanor wrote on Jul 18th, 2009 at 6:06pm:
Was out all day today finding some wood for making my first atlatl, actually I was out all day yesterday to and found some ash which I took home and was going to steam shape but I over bent it and it broke.
Went to another place today and finally had to settle for some birch.
Going back to the first place in the morning and getting some more ash.
Now there is just the problem of curing the wood because there is no way I am waiting a year for it to cure and my oven is quite small so I might have to go with a composite and drying shorter pieces..
Oh well, get back when I have pictures.


Fëanor,

I recently cut down a large ash tree in my back yard. I have a huge pile of limbs. I've been using them as part of gates on my corrals, made a walking stick for my grandmother, had the trunk cut into tomahawk targets, and if I can find a piece with out a ton of knots in it, I'd use it in a bow. And I STILL have a lot left over. Where do you live?

On steam bending the wood, I heat the wood, then bend it and while it's bent, cool it with a damp rag. Also, hot, wet wood gives no warning. It just seems to snap. The important thing is to do it in stages and have patience (which I sorely lack). As for the composite, the atlatl below I made for my brother. It's actually made from my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th atlatls, as I snapped them all. I glued the sections together with lap joints and plain old white glue, then braided a knot over them to help hold them. It's 2 feet long, and throws as good as any of the others.




K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Fëanor on Jul 19th, 2009 at 4:22pm
Nicely worked composite.
I live in Stockholm, Sweden, but it is not necessary to send me wood, thank you very much though.
Besides, ash is so nice to work with that I am sure you'll get through it all eventually. :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:48pm
i just got finished with my new atlatl.  sorry if the pics are  a little blurry

it throws very good. when i find somthing to make finger loops from ill probly add those but untill then its finished


atlatl.png (641 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 20th, 2009 at 2:21am
heres a closer pic of the spur
atlatl_spur.png (836 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 20th, 2009 at 2:28am
maybe thisll help . i brightened up some to show the featues a little better
atlatl_001.png (490 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 20th, 2009 at 7:36am
Looks good Aztec. And if it throws good, even better!

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 20th, 2009 at 9:29am
awesome, aztec! if you need finger loops try weaving or braiding them. i know everyone likes to use leather, but if you don't have any just go with what you do. personally, i think braided or twisted loops look cool! the woven split pouch everyone uses on here would make great loops. just slide tha atlatl through the split and tie the cords to the shaft.
l_5211a959d9034be987013e3b95d5f78e.jpg (77 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 20th, 2009 at 8:45pm
I like braided parachute cord. It's a little rough, but durable as all get out, and I can get just about any color I want. If you have a soft pair of leather gloves, cut some strips out of that and try braiding it. BUT Paleoarts' idea of the technique for woven split pouch slings would work awesome, too.

K'Jev
8-)
100_0460.jpg (41 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 20th, 2009 at 11:04pm
i like that cordage loop. thats probly what ill end up doing. but i wanted some bone or shell loops like some of the aztec atlatls have

ive also been burnishing the atlatl today with a deer bone.  its so shiny now lol

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 21st, 2009 at 12:43am
brother aztec, you're the only other person i've run across who even knows what burnishing is! i use a glass bottle or a very smooth rock.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 21st, 2009 at 1:33am
haha lol..i learned about it a few years ago. when i 1st got my flintlock muzzle loader, someone  told me to rub the ramrod down with a piece of antler or bone to give it a good smooth finish and to seal the grains

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Fëanor on Jul 21st, 2009 at 6:05am
Hmm, never knew the name of the technique but had "discovered" the effect when working with wood, not that I've worked all that much with wood.
so thanks for teaching me the name of it. :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 21st, 2009 at 6:58pm
I have the round bone from a steak. It's got the hole in the middle I can put my finger in if I need to. It works great!

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 21st, 2009 at 10:43pm
^^ make sure the edges arent sharp. i was burnishing this bull roarer i made today and i put a scratch in it cause i acidently let the end of the bone where it was cut rub against it. so i can see where a bottle or smooth rock would work better

i gave in and decided to put braided hemp  finger loops on my atlatl.


atlatl_finger_loops.png (1291 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 6:44pm
the loops and handle turned out better than i expected
aztec_atlatl.png (833 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 7:34pm
very nice, man. how's she shoot?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 11:55pm
better now that i can hold the dart against  the spur easier ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 24th, 2009 at 9:51pm
I've been using mine without finger loops (since I haven't gotten them built yet). Can't wait to finish them. It makes a world of difference.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 25th, 2009 at 1:00pm
man i went to this small local   festivel today and there was a flint knapper there .his knives and arrows heads were ok but the atlatl and darts he had....the darts were bamboo with duct tape flecting's and the atlatl he was using was a short piece of bambo with a wire loop at the end for the dart to nock to :o

he was giving atlatl demo's and even had them for sell. i understand that not everyone has the time and resorces to make musem quality pieces but youd think they could do better for a historical show.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 25th, 2009 at 2:15pm
yeah, my first ones were pretty crude but at least i never used wire or duct tape! oh, well, serves the customers right if they were dumb enough to buy them. i hope you set some people straight, aztec.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 25th, 2009 at 5:13pm
haha i thought about makin a coment but i generaly try to be nice and mind my own buisness(mostly) i didnt see any one buying them though

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 25th, 2009 at 6:02pm
i shouldn't be too harsh on the guy. at least he was promoting interest. just demonstrating the principle of how it works is a good thing, especially for someone like me who makes and sells atlatls. but you always hate to see people shelling out hard earned money for inferior products. quite likely some of those people will now go on-line to research atlatls further and see all the fine work that is available.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 25th, 2009 at 6:23pm
nah you arent harsh i had the same thoughts ,i cant be the only dude in town who's into that sorta stuff. im sure someone let him know lol

but yea hopefully it will make atleast a few people interested in them

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 25th, 2009 at 10:53pm
Had a similar experience. There's a rendezvous every year about 5 miles from my house, so naturally I go. My dad started knapping arrowheads a year or two ago, so we looked at what they had.

OH MY GOSH! :o The things they had for sale were hunks of flint about a quarter of an inch thick and vaguely arrowhead shaped. It looked like someone had knocked 4 sides off a rock and strapped it to a stick. I kept my mouth shut, but it was hard not to laugh.

Maybe I'm a perfectionist, but I expect the things I sell to look darn professional.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 25th, 2009 at 11:07pm
my dad was with me today too.. in fact when he was the 1st to notice the guys stuff and he said "look at that cruddy stuff" i almost laughed lol

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 29th, 2009 at 1:53pm
here's one i did this week.
100_1191_640x480.jpg (174 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 29th, 2009 at 3:47pm
thats awsome. i like how it flares out at either end. and is that a ball and sockect spur?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 29th, 2009 at 3:59pm
just the standard bone spur i put on most of my atlatls. this one flares a bit.
100_1194_640x480.jpg (129 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 29th, 2009 at 4:00pm
here's another. this is an alaskan style throwing board.
100_1176_640x480.jpg (159 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 29th, 2009 at 4:07pm
oh from the 1st pic it looked like a ball  ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Fx 2000 on Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:05pm
Nice threat.

Here two of mine.

Greatings Michel
Atlatl_Fisch_1_k_002.jpg (92 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Fx 2000 on Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:06pm
Number two.
Atlatl_Schaaf_s_k_002.jpg (73 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:31pm
beautiful work, michel! what's the spur made from?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by jax on Jul 29th, 2009 at 7:52pm
Paleo,

 As Aztec mentioned,I thought the spur appeared round as well.Would a round spur work well?There would be contact all the way through the throw.

       Brett

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Thomas on Jul 29th, 2009 at 8:42pm
From another paleo guy, maybe.
P1010070.jpg (80 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 29th, 2009 at 9:31pm
jax, yeah a round spur does work, and extremely well at that, but the tolerances have to be just right or the dart has a tendency to slip off. most of my spurs have a rounded nose shape versus a distinct point, but to tell you the truth, i've never been able to detect a difference in performance between them.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by jax on Jul 29th, 2009 at 9:35pm
Hey Thomas,

 How about a picture of the atlatl that Rich built for you?


            Brett

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 29th, 2009 at 11:51pm
anyone got any tips for darts and how to improve acrucy?

in all honesty i cant hit anything smaller than a mamoth at the moment and theres so few of those left around here  :(

so i need some serious practice but before that i need a few good darts so im not running back and forth after every throw


ive got 3 darts, one river cane that i made a couple years ago and 2 darts i made from arrows jointed together.  the arrow ones are way to light and im having trouble figureing out how to put a durable target tip in the cane one.
i have a ton of river cane so id rather use it but need some feathers.
also i have plenty of pre cut arrow fletchings ,would they be to small to stablise a cane dart?

this fall hopefully ill be doing a lot of deer hunting with my flat bow. im finally confident enough to hunt with it and i thought i could take a atlatl and dart along just incase. but ill need some serious improvment

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Thomas on Jul 30th, 2009 at 12:01am

wrote on Jul 29th, 2009 at 9:35pm:
Hey Thomas,

 How about a picture of the atlatl that Rich built for you?


            Brett

This one was gift from one of my son Jax’s lifelong friends. It is 54.5cm from the handle end to the tip of the horn spur. This guy is also a master of the selfbow.  

Incidentally that piece of quartz is only there to prop up the end.
atlatl1_001_001.jpg (260 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 30th, 2009 at 2:41am
aztec. try these guys for fletchings. been dealing with them for a long time and they have the best quality feathers for the cheapest prices i've found. http://www.customfeathers.com/  the best deal is on page 2 of thier catalog, 100 grade #2 primaries for $26.99! that's 33 darts or 66 arrows for under $30! tell'm chris henry from paleoarts sent ya  ;) for practice tips on cane darts i would either go with just sharpened hardwood foreshafts, or foreshafts with glue on steel field points. i use 160g tapered field points on all my 6' ash sport darts. for accuracy, check tom mills' (paleoaleo's) tutorial on youtube.

35e16842e2287ed8dacb5a5c33dacfdf566e99d9.jpg (93 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 30th, 2009 at 2:49am
thanks  :) ive got a bunch of those tips laying so ill try that  . and now  im off  go check out the link and youtube!


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 30th, 2009 at 2:53am
oh, nice chucker, Thomas! how's she throw?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 30th, 2009 at 4:07am
ahh i already see one mistake i do.. i turn my body slighty away when i throw

mmk ive got quiet a few projects planed but some darts are at the top. now i cant wait to get started

ah man toms videos are awesome. right now im watchin the cane arrow part 2.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 30th, 2009 at 4:15am

I have used these on cane darts, they are extremely robust. I use a 15mm to 10mm reducer with a couple of inches of 10mm steel rod, all epoxied together.

http://www.primitiveways.com/field_points_for_atlatl.html


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 30th, 2009 at 4:31am
yeah, fiddler makes some cool, effective stuff  ;) i've also seen people use rifle cartridges as tips. hey, david, have you tried the alaskan yet?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 30th, 2009 at 4:42am
i like those tips too..a trip to lowes perhaps  8-)
?
some of my older arrows i made i used  riffle case's for blunts. i use to pick them up at the local range

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 30th, 2009 at 7:20am

Paleoarts wrote on Jul 30th, 2009 at 4:31am:
yeah, fiddler makes some cool, effective stuff  ;) i've also seen people use rifle cartridges as tips.


Now those I have!

How do you make a point out of them?

This is my "primitive" point. It's now in an oak foreshaft. It was a very large nail I cold shaped with a hammer. Then I (since I was at work) I heated it red-hot on a weed-burner I had handy, and quenched it in my water bottle. (No, I didn't drink the water after that :P)

It's about 6 inches long. Kind of makes the dart point-heavy, so I suppose I could always cut some off if I wanted.

K'Jev
8-)
100_0484.jpg (26 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Thomas on Jul 30th, 2009 at 9:25am

Paleoarts wrote on Jul 30th, 2009 at 2:53am:
oh, nice chucker, Thomas! how's she throw?

I have only thrown with this memento maybe a dozen times and not being a proficient atlatlist yet I can’t judge or compare it with anything else. I wish I had started atlatl making and throwing when younger and more fit. When I was a kid we threw cane and straight saplings by holding them at the c.g. It was fascinating to watch some of them wobble their way along. IMHO any bending energy stored in an atlatl dart system is simply consumed during the ongoing oscillations. But strangely, this flexibility allows rotary motion to be input to the dart’s tail end and at the same time the dominate mass toward the front preserves the intended flight path!            

tom  

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 30th, 2009 at 12:04pm
kjev, you cut off the primer end. on the tapered slug end, you either glue or solder a nail into it for a field point, or cut a groove and fix a blade into it for a broadhead.

this is your que, david! show us the link!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 30th, 2009 at 1:35pm

http://www.fullbooks.com/Hunting-with-the-Bow-and-Arrow2.html


Quote:
But the point that we prefer to shoot is the old English broad-head.
Starting from small dimensions, we have gradually increased its size,
weight and strength and cutting qualities till now we shoot a head
whose blade is three inches long, an inch and a quarter wide, a trifle
less than a thirty-second thick. It has a haft or tubular shank an inch
long. Its weight is half an ounce. The blades are made of spring steel.
After annealing the steel we score it diagonally with a hack saw, when
it may be broken in triangular pieces in a vise. With a cold chisel, an
angular cut is made in the base to form the barbs. With a file and
carborundum stone, they are edged and shaped into blades as sharp as
knives. Soft, cold drawn steel will serve quite as well as spring steel
for these blades, but it does not hold its edge. It may be purchased at
hardware supply depots in the form of strips an inch and a half wide,
by one-thirty-second thick, and is much easier to work than the
tempered variety.

Then taking three-eighths number 22 gauge steel or brass tubing, we
smash it to a short bevel on the anvil, file off the corners and cut it
to a length of an inch and three-quarters. This makes the haft or
socket. Fixing a blade, barbs uppermost in the vise, this tubing is
driven lightly into position, the filed edges of the beveled end
permitting the blade to be held between the sides of the tubing. A
small hole is drilled through the tubing and blade, and a soft iron
wire rivet is inserted. The blade is held over a gas flame while the
joint between it and the tubing is filled with soft soldering compound
and ribbon solder.


This is close and it comes from the man himself, Saxton Pope. He used 22 gauge tubing, not to be confused with a .22 caliber spent case. A spent .308 case or similar would probably work well here.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 30th, 2009 at 1:47pm

Paleoarts wrote on Jul 30th, 2009 at 4:31am:
hey, david, have you tried the alaskan yet?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjr4N6wfZyA  8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 30th, 2009 at 2:25pm
excelent!  :D i take it that's the new high speed camera? awesome! i predict some really intereting videos coming our way soon.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 31st, 2009 at 3:02am


tonight i discovered im not much of a fletcher  :( lol. for my arrows i had always bought precuts and used my fletchin jig to glyue the on. tieing those darn feathers is harder than it looks.

im using large chicken feathers from the craft store.not as good as turkey or geese but ill make do for now

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Jul 31st, 2009 at 5:59am
Aztec,

I generally use the plastic fletches sold in most sporting good stores, but I've fletched a couple of darts with feathers. The important thing is to always make sure you use either 2 left wing, or  2 right wing feathers (you probably already knew that).

I cheat and tack them into place with super glue before I tie the fletching on, then cheat and add more super glue after I tie the fletching on.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 31st, 2009 at 12:46pm

aztec wrote on Jul 31st, 2009 at 3:02am:
tonight i discovered im not much of a fletcher  :( lol. for my arrows i had always bought precuts and used my fletchin jig to glyue the on. tieing those darn feathers is harder than it looks.

im using large chicken feathers from the craft store.not as good as turkey or geese but ill make do for now


aztec, as always, Tom Mills (paleoaleo) is your go-to guy on most things 'paleo' check out his youtube tutorial on fletching.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 31st, 2009 at 12:48pm
next week i have to make a whole mess of darts for an upcoming show. i'll try and shoot some pics for a tutorial on how i do mine.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jul 31st, 2009 at 5:11pm
way ahead of ya  ;D lol. but my feathers wont bend without breaking like in his vids so i have to tie down the biend of the quill then the little then wrap up the middle.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 31st, 2009 at 5:31pm
I start wrapping at the front, get the quill ends wrapped down tight (use one turn for each quill, dont try to get all your feathers under one turn), spiral down the length of the feathers in half a dozen turns or so, then wrap down the tail ends of the quills and finish the wrapping with a separate pull-thru loop.  

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jul 31st, 2009 at 6:15pm
i use a combination of glue and wrap on mine that doesn't require any bending of the quills.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 2nd, 2009 at 12:35am
yea i think im gonna hafta use glue too. and the wraping the quills.. how do you keep the wrap fairly straight and to not pull feather fibers down?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 2nd, 2009 at 3:33am
Split the feather barbs first, then run the cord down the split. You have to 'follow the grain' from where you want the thread to cross the quill up to the edge of the feather, cos the barbs run at an angle. Holding the thread in your teeth helps, you have both hands free then.

Dont bother with glue, it just makes things messier and takes longer. Binding is all you need.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 2nd, 2009 at 2:48pm
i need to do a tutorial on my method. maybe this week. as far as wrapping, i start at the bottom (edge closest to the point) and wrap to the left (counterclockwise if looking at it point on). this assumes you are using right wing primaries. if you have left wing, it's opposite. an easy way to get your wrap straight and not bend too many fibers down is to mark the quill with a pencil or pen where you want the wrap to go. then as you wrap upwards you can slot the thread into the proper gap. dont worry if you bend a few down. it wont affect the performance of the dart or arrow.
1ba16544e32271d0d26320799933b0d670a0280d.jpg (104 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 2nd, 2009 at 7:35pm
I'm up for the tutorial. My way is a little different:

I shave some of the quills off each end of the feather, and off the side that goes against the dart (unless I'm running low on feathers, then I split the feather lenghtwise, but it's a paint in the tookus)

I tie the trimmed-up feather down at each end, and super-glue it for good measure. Then I super-glue the middle.

On a slightly off-topic note, I have been only using 2 feathers per dart, but someone told me to try four like he did. I noticed an amazing increase in accuracy when I tested one, so while I was camping this weekend, I took along my darts and fletching gear, and added 2 more fins to each dart.

Below is a primitive dart I made for my dad, but I braided gaucho knots over the thread with flat parachute cord. I don't have any photos of my fletched dart yet.

K'Jev
8-)
100_0480.jpg (31 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 2nd, 2009 at 8:32pm
that's cool looking! i, personally prefer three fletched darts. mine are pretty low profile (about 1 inch high) and 8 inches long (with a 1/2" bare quill at each end making them 9" overall). while larger fletches or more of them do provide some stability, they also slow down the speed and, i believe, the oscillations of the dart.
l_aebf77df28ab40269553877f9826f720.jpg (65 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 3rd, 2009 at 12:06am
^^ thats how my dart looks  :)
today ive been straighting cane shafts . not as easy as i thought itd be but im gettin there! 8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 5th, 2009 at 5:23pm
here's a new 'basketmaker' atlatl that i finished today. it's made from a bottlebrush tree that my neighbor cut down. it's 24" long and about 1/4" thick. i used a bone spur instead of the traditional notch found on the originals. the finger loops are elk hide.
9fb361334080e370220778b2d0e6da32025d9069.jpg (83 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 5th, 2009 at 5:24pm
from the side
bed1684fe82377d7d4cb960afbbd8bd993c54e17.jpg (94 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 5th, 2009 at 5:25pm
finger loops from the front
acf1644de02377d9d37d4da3c1be8e9f30df7962.jpg (79 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 5th, 2009 at 5:25pm
finger loops from the rear
57816b48e2267ed1dcc87f6653ea5dc674b2bf51.jpg (73 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 5th, 2009 at 5:26pm
with a dart knocked
0fe26a1485e2728073ad6adc9c7e1915629aaa3e.jpg (93 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 5th, 2009 at 11:09pm
i like that  ;D. whys it called a basket maker? because the wood is so thin and flexible?

its  my 2nd favorite that youve made (1st favorite is the egyption)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 6th, 2009 at 12:21am
If I remember right, it's called a "basketmaker" because that style was used by the Anasazi Basket Makers in the American Southwest (as opposed to their Californai Cousins, the Basket Cases ;D)

My own style is sort of a combination between the Great Basin Style and the Basketmaker style. I like flexible systems.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:29am
ahh i see.  ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 8:23am
kjev's right, about the 'basketmaker' and not about us native californians >:(.

oh, Aztec. if you like the 'egyptian', just wait until later today! i've got some new beauties coming out. ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 6th, 2009 at 9:33am

A slo-mo chucking compilation. The atlatl is by paleoarts  8-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik6_bRSmPJk ( dont forget the HQ button! )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 9:42am
great vid, David! thanks for the shout out ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:37pm
here's my new 'egyptian' that i finished this morning.

100_1304_480x640.jpg (126 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:38pm
22" long
100_1306_640x480.jpg (116 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:39pm
about 5/8" wide
100_1308_640x480.jpg (119 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:40pm
made from brazilian 'cocobolo'
100_1292_640x480.jpg (133 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:41pm
braided elk hide finger loops
100_1298_640x480.jpg (128 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:42pm
whitetail antler spur
100_1299_640x480.jpg (112 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:43pm
and one mother of a thrower!
100_1290_640x480.jpg (128 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 1:44pm
my new favorite! (until i make the next one, then that will be my favorite. i'm fickle :P)
100_1278_480x640.jpg (118 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 6th, 2009 at 2:03pm

Wow!  :o

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 6th, 2009 at 2:16pm
that wood is beautiful... :o im in love

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 4:44pm
thanks. if you like this wood, wait till you see the next one! ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:01pm
and here it is!
100_1400_640x480.jpg (133 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:02pm
this guy is a little longer, 24" total.
100_1395_640x480.jpg (132 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:03pm
about 5/8" at it's thickest
100_1390_640x480.jpg (119 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:05pm
the finger loops are six strand braided flax that have been coated in beeswax
100_1402_640x480.jpg (122 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:06pm
i got the loop design from you guys!
100_1397_480x640.jpg (107 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:07pm
basically, it's a split pouch. ;)
100_1398_640x480.jpg (121 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:08pm
the spur is whitetail deer antler
100_1399_640x480.jpg (119 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:09pm
the balance is excellent :)
100_1403_640x480.jpg (127 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:10pm
i tthink i might keep this one :D
100_1401_480x640.jpg (130 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:29pm

Fabulous stuff!

I have a thrower of my own nearly completed. I should be able to post pics tomorrow.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 6th, 2009 at 7:47pm
looks great,i like the loops. they look better than leather ones in my opinion.
now im in the mood to make another one.  :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 6th, 2009 at 8:31pm
WOW. Ash and elm are so plain compared to that. I've got to try to fine some mountain mahogany. . .

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 6th, 2009 at 11:45pm
just curouis here. how do you guys shape the wood down to an atlatl shape? do you use a saw to get rid of the  excess or do you wittle and scrape/shave it the whole way?

the last one i did was mostly shaped with a rasp  then sanded

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 7th, 2009 at 3:07am

aztec wrote on Aug 6th, 2009 at 11:45pm:
the last one i did was mostly shaped with a rasp  then sanded


Thats how I do mine.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 7th, 2009 at 4:37am
can't wait to see it, David.  :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 7th, 2009 at 7:01am

aztec wrote on Aug 6th, 2009 at 11:45pm:
just curouis here. how do you guys shape the wood down to an atlatl shape? do you use a saw to get rid of the  excess or do you wittle and scrape/shave it the whole way?


I generally cut to length with a saw (usually my leatherman), then then mostly use a rasp, like Davidmorningstar. I tried using a grinder once, to be faster, but all it did was screw things up and leave burn marks on the wood. Shaving with a pocketknife actually works pretty well, and is a lot faster than I expected it would be.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 7th, 2009 at 8:49am
Here is one I have just finished. The spur and finger peg are antler glued in using epoxy mixed with charcoal. The grip texture is achieved with a stiff wire brush. Experience suggests this atlatl will need another sanding and oiling in a week or so to get the final finish. I like the finger peg style of grip because of the way it positions the tip of the index finger at the same level as the thumb for easy gripping and releasing of the dart. Overall length is 24 inches.








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 7th, 2009 at 11:53am
really cool, David! i love the 'primitive' look of it. the surface looks exactly like it was scraped down with a stone flake. nice job. have you thrown it yet? what is the wood?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 7th, 2009 at 12:01pm

I'm not sure about the wood. I stained it with tea which added a little colour and brought out the grain nicely. I havent chucked with it yet because it is still oily while it absorbs its first coat of linseed finish, and also because I cut my index finger while I was making it. I had to angle the 'holding' picture carefully to keep the band-aid hidden  ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 7th, 2009 at 12:12pm
we all suffer for our art  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 7th, 2009 at 4:27pm
just think of it as putting a little bit of your soul into the things you make..

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 7th, 2009 at 6:01pm
my first atlatl from paper and chopsticks ;D
sized_atlatl.jpg (91 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 7th, 2009 at 6:02pm
the nock
sized_nock.jpg (52 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 7th, 2009 at 6:03pm
and with it holding a paper arrow (way too short of course, but i did get one good clean shot without it tumbling head over heels)
sized_loaded.jpg (45 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 7th, 2009 at 6:12pm
right on, kid! you just might have made the worlds first atlatl out of paper. :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 7th, 2009 at 6:17pm
here's an idea for your darts, kid. you can use mulyiple chopsticks laid end to end and joined together with paper tubes. this will give you wieght, length, and more rigidity while still having flex.

check out 'scarf joints' over on paleoplanet for more info.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 7th, 2009 at 6:51pm
hey thanks

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 7th, 2009 at 7:18pm
ha thats great kid. how about paper mache? (did i spell that right?) on an episode of mythbusters they built a cross bow with just paper mache and elastic from the underwear fr the string

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 8th, 2009 at 1:21am
Hey Kid, if it throws, it throws. Pretty darn innovative!

Morningstar, do you have any pictures showing how you hold your atlatl with the finger spur? And I won't be ashamed if I see your bang-aid. Goodness knows I've rasped my hands plenty.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 8th, 2009 at 8:12am
I'll let my finger heal a bit more before I put it on the catwalk again :)

I hold the atlatl at an angle across my palm, between a curled-over little finger and the base of the index finger. This gives more support and leverage than running it over the fleshy bit between your thumb and index  finger.

I hold the index finger back under the peg with the tip curled up behind the peg. This puts the tip of the finger at the same height as the thumb, but further back.  

You can use this grip without a peg, and I do on my other atlatls. I just wanted to see if a peg makes any difference.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 2:02pm
here's the latest in the 'egyptian' series.
100_1438_480x640.jpg (127 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 2:03pm
made of 'bloodwood'
100_1436_480x640.jpg (158 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 2:06pm
22" long and about 1/2" wide flaringout to a little over 3/4" at the handle.
100_1412_640x480.jpg (140 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 2:10pm
the finger loops are a six strand braid of elk hide.
100_1441_640x480.jpg (128 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 2:12pm
the split pouch technique for slings works great for atlatls!
100_1442_640x480.jpg (125 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 2:15pm
bison bone spur
100_1415_640x480.jpg (86 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 2:16pm
great balance on this one, if i do say so myself  ;)
100_1417_640x480.jpg (128 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 2:18pm
by the way, that is the natural color of that wood. all i did was give it a little oil finish.
100_1406_480x640.jpg (123 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 8th, 2009 at 4:08pm
i have a new favorite! ;D

thats really the woods natural color?thats awesome, i wonder if it grows around here..

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 8th, 2009 at 6:07pm
it's a brazilian hardwood, so unless you're near the amazon....

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by slinger87 on Aug 8th, 2009 at 6:09pm
it looks great, I might make one if I ever get the time and the wood.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 8th, 2009 at 6:56pm
oh lol  ;D..nope no amazon here

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 10th, 2009 at 12:57pm
I just took my new atlatl out for a chuck and I'm glad to say it throws like a demon! The dart-spur separation is very smooth. This is why I made the spur angle quite steep, so the point of the spur would be rotated out of the nock at the top of the throw.

I have also settled into a diagonal style of throw instead of the vertical plane throw I used to do. I concentrate more on the early phase of the throw, establishing a smooth flat dart movement and releasing my grip in plenty of time before bringing in the leverage with a strong sweep down and left. My throwing is now more powerful, accurate and confident. I am very pleased!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 10th, 2009 at 1:30pm
I hold the atlatl at an angle across my palm, between a curled-over little finger and the base of the index finger. This gives more support and leverage than running it over the fleshy bit between your thumb and index  finger.

I hold the index finger back under the peg with the tip curled up behind the peg. This puts the tip of the finger at the same height as the thumb. This greatly helps me to get a clean dart release without 'twanging' it with my fingertip.




Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 10th, 2009 at 7:20pm
Veeerrrrry Interestink!

I just happen to be making a new atlatl. I think I'll try your idea Morningstar! Thanks for the great pictures. They helped a lot.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 11th, 2009 at 6:25am

This one didnt turn out so well:



It was meant to be flexible  :-[

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 11th, 2009 at 6:57am
My youngest brother's is like that. It's the 5th atlatl I made. It's made from pieces of the 3rd and 4th. I was trying to heat bend the wood. Hot wet wood gives no warning. There's just this sickening, soggy, "Shnap."


You can see where I joined the pieces together. I glued them with glue, then braided the knots on to help hold them.

The key to making a flexible system, I've learned is patience. And fire-killed wood. Fire-killed wood is much more flexible than regular seasoned wood. And the atlatls can be much thinner. My own thrower is maybe 3/8" thick in the shaft.

If you can find a place where there was a forest fire, and get permission from the land owner, A hike with a saw can be a wonderful thing. I lucked out. There was a fire about a mile from our house a few years ago, and it killed several hundred juniper trees. And I got to know the owner of the land fairly well.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Eoraptor on Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:15am
Does it help with accuracy if it is flexable?  The dart has to be flexable, too... same basic idea?

This is the first one I've made, I finished it a few days ago.  It is a little short for my taste, but it works perfectly, and hasn't broken yet... but I'm shure I'll break it eventually.  All in good time....
atlatl.jpg (63 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:23am

Eoraptor wrote on Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:15am:
Does it help with accuracy if it is flexable?  The dart has to be flexable, too... same basic idea?

This is the first one I've made, I finished it a few days ago.  It is a little short for my taste, but it works perfectly, and hasn't broken yet... but I'm shure I'll break it eventually.  All in good time....


That look great. Is the spur made of perspex?

The dart bends to cope with the curved path take by the tip of the atlatl. Since the dart bends at around ten pounds of force there is only that much force bending back a flexible atlatl, which wouldnt bend it very far at all. The amounts of energy being stored and released in the bending of dart and atlatl are tiny compared to the final energy of the flying dart.

Quite why the atlatls of the native American southwest were flexible is a mystery. I wanted to chuck with one to see what it was like for myself, but I'll have be patient for a while longer :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Eoraptor on Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:38am
It would be interesting to try it... but I don't have many forrest fires in my area   :)

I crudely flint knapped the spur from river rolled chunkes of an old vodca bottle.  Some of us don't have axcess to antler tines and bison bones   ;)
atleatlespur.jpg (49 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:48am

I bought my bits of antler over the internet from a guy who sells supplies to hobby walking stick makers.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 11th, 2009 at 12:09pm
as far as flexibility in atlatls, my theory is that it eases the tension and strain on the forearm of the thrower rather than adding any energy to the toss.

eorapter, you can get bleached beef bone at your local pet store.

by the way, nice job! ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Eoraptor on Aug 11th, 2009 at 1:27pm
That makes sense, but if the atl atl doesn't rebound/recoil or whatever before the dart is cast off, then wouldn't the the throw loose energy?

I feel silly buying antler off the internet because I only need one, and I have no shortage of bone, we often get my dog scraps from the butcher, but my attempts to shape them have had no success so far, but when I get it I will make another one and see how it works.  

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 11th, 2009 at 4:18pm
eoraptor. first off, no. once the atlatl reaches its maximum flex during the forward motion it becomes, for all intesive purposes, a rigid atlatl. the dart leaves the spur towards the top of the arc while in this rigid state and it's only afterwards that the atlatl deflexes, shedding its pent up energy. one possible benefit a flexible thrower might have is that it would allow the arm a fraction of a second more forward motion before the dart started forward, thereby gaining a tiny edge in stability and accuracy. some even speculate that the spring in a flexible thrower gaurds against 'stalled' casts where the thrower has a slight hesitation in his stroke and keeps the spur from slipping out. i don't see this, but it might be true.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 12th, 2009 at 1:02am
Euroraptor,

Your atlatl looks beautiful. especially for a first build. What kind of wood did you use?

Atlatl.com, Bob Parr's site, deals a lot with the whyfors and hows of a flexible system. There's a link at the bottom of the home page on "atlatl mechanics" that goes into a good description of it. His slo-mo videos are worth watching, too.

From what I've gathered, the atlatl works sort of like a bow, with the spring providing additional force to the throw. Since all I've really ever made are flexible systems, I really can't say what the difference is between the flexible and rigid styles. I do know it's fun to throw, though.

As for knapping out of old vodka bottles, awesome! My dad knaps a lot of arrowheads that way, then colors them with indelible markers, if he wants them to look like obsidian. He says it's also great practice since glass is a little cheaper.

And while I constantly say that fire-killed wood is the best, my own atlatl is made from a piece of oak flooring, and I love how it throws.

If you want a really odd experience, loosen up the knots holding your bannerstone in place. As you throw, your bannerstone will slide toward the hook end, and almost rip the atlatl from your hand. It's weird.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 12th, 2009 at 1:38am
kjev, i can vouche for that bannerstone thing! i've had a thrower ripped clean out of my hands by that. on the topic of atlatl bob's theories, i can tell you that a large portion of the atlatl community strongly disagrees with him on the issue of flex, including some top experimental archeologists. i've personally watched several high-speed videos of casts and they all seem to show the dart leaving the spur prior to the atlatls deflexing, therefore making it impossible for it to transfer any spring energy to the toss. it appears that the only propulsive power involved is contained in the throwers arm and the dart itself. that's not to say that flex, at least in the dart, doesn't play a vital role in the effectivness of atlatls. without flexible darts it's nearly impossible to have any kind of decent accuracy.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 12th, 2009 at 5:49am

Kjev wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 1:02am:
Atlatl.com, Bob Parr's site, deals a lot with the whyfors and hows of a flexible system. There's a link at the bottom of the home page on "atlatl mechanics" that goes into a good description of it. His slo-mo videos are worth watching, too. From what I've gathered, the atlatl works sort of like a bow, with the spring providing additional force to the throw.


His slo-mo videos certainly are worth watching, because they completely disprove everything he says about how his atlatls and darts work.

Look at the amount of flex in the dart while its still on the atlatl. This is the stored spring energy. Then look at the amount of flex after it has separated from the atlatl. It is flexing by the same amount! None of the 'stored energy' that he likes to bang on about has actually been used to propel the dart, it is still in the dart making it oscillate.

Similarly since a dart bends at maybe 10 pounds, this means there is ten pounds of force bending the atlatl. Even if the atlatl shaft bent by a couple of inches, this would mean a grand total of about one foot-pound of energy.  When you were in school, did you ever flick paper pellets across a classroom with a ruler? Thats the energy level we are talking about here.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 12th, 2009 at 7:41am
Like I said, I've never thrown a rigid system. I was just going by what I found on his site. Obviously both rigid and flexible systems work, since they were both used. Why have a flexible system? I have no idea. And I admit, when I watched the videos, I really was paying more attention to the dart flexing, since I was working on my first set of darts at the time. And obviously the power has to come from the thrower's arm. I never expected the flex of my atlatl to generate any more power, but if it does, I'll take what I can get. He'

If I was wrong, I freely admit it.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 12th, 2009 at 8:11am

Kjev wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 7:41am:
If I was wrong, I freely admit it.

K'Jev
8-)


Its 'Atlatl Bob' who is wrong, not you. Look at it critically, run some numbers through it and draw your own conclusions.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:26am
we're not knocking you, kjev. it's just that a lot of us spearlheads really get steamed when 'atlatl bob' goes on TV and announces to the world how atlatls work when in fact a lot of the physics are still being researched. there is a project brewing over on paleoplanet (david is probably going to play a key role with his high speed camera) to get as much slo-mo vid as possible of different thrower and dart combos so we can see exactly what is taking place. don't worry, you're not the first to be taken in by bob's authoritative stance, myself included. ;)
                                                                                                                                                             Chris

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Thomas on Aug 12th, 2009 at 11:39am

Thomas wrote on Jul 30th, 2009 at 9:25am:

Paleoarts wrote on Jul 30th, 2009 at 2:53am:
oh, nice chucker, Thomas! how's she throw?

I have only thrown with this memento maybe a dozen times and not being a proficient atlatlist yet I can’t judge or compare it with anything else. I wish I had started atlatl making and throwing when younger and more fit. When I was a kid we threw cane and straight saplings by holding them at the c.g. It was fascinating to watch some of them wobble their way along. IMHO any bending energy stored in an atlatl dart system is simply consumed during the ongoing oscillations. But strangely, this flexibility allows rotary motion to be input to the dart’s tail end and at the same time the dominate mass toward the front preserves the intended flight path!            

tom  

There may be some convincing analogies supporting the added thrust idea, but in the atlatl dart system the flexing functions only to let the three components operate as a team. One of them is the human power source.        

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 12th, 2009 at 3:38pm
i agree, Tom. ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 13th, 2009 at 6:40am
I understand the controversy. And in all honesty, I don't much care HOW it works. I'm just glad it works.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 13th, 2009 at 4:42pm
here's my 'egyptian' line so far. definitely be making more in the near future. i love how these throw! :D

100_1460_640x480.jpg (140 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Eoraptor on Aug 13th, 2009 at 7:55pm

Kjev wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 1:02am:
What kind of wood did you use?


Sorry Kjev, I used hickory because I cut down a small tree to have a go at making a bow (haven't started yet) and I wanted to use the extra wood.


O.k, ready for a stupid question?  *prays for forgiveness from the atl atl gods*  I have never used an atl atl with the loops around the handle.  Do they go around the wrist or fingers?  What are the advantages?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 14th, 2009 at 6:10am
Some people put a thumb and forefinger through the loops, I know paleoarts does. However it is clear that on archaeological examples the fingerloops are for the first and second fingers, using the 'split grip':



(pic yoinked from The Warrior Yeti)


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 14th, 2009 at 7:05am
I use the thumb and 2nd finger through the loops, although I don't use the split grip. It just feels weird to me. I finally put loops on my atlatl last night (just never got around ot it before. It makes it much easier to hold on to.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 14th, 2009 at 12:57pm
yeah, there are as many different grips as there are atlatls. hammer, paddle, pinch, split finger....you name it. the best advice is just to use whatever feels good to you and produces results. i've tried the split finger and while it is very accurate i feel i can't generate enough power behind the toss. i use a thumb and index finger pinch grip.
100_1290_640x480_001.jpg (128 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 14th, 2009 at 3:36pm
^^thats the grip i use.

this man i talked to about atlatls once told me the 2 finger grip was called the "mexican grip" im not sure if thats true or not but the guy was a whiz on atlatls.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 14th, 2009 at 4:27pm
good a name as any, i guess.

oh, and eoraptor, the advantages are that you can generate significantly more forward thrust with loops versus without (at least on this type of atlatl) and they also keep it from flying out of your hand after the wrist flick. think of them like the retention loop on a sling. other styles of chuckers use different techniques for retention, such as the alaskan throwing boards and a lot of modern 'hammer' types which rely on integral portions of the throwers themselves for retention..

100_1187_640x480_001.jpg (167 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Eoraptor on Aug 14th, 2009 at 4:41pm
:)  Thanks for enlightening me, I was decidedly puzzled... the pinch grip looks intriguing, I might have to try that next time...


Title: New Darts
Post by Kjev on Aug 15th, 2009 at 6:32pm
Finally got my next set of darts finished. Six are for me, one is for my brother-in-law.

Here's the 6. As far as technical details go, they are made from aluminum Easton shafts, 56.5 inches overall, with 3-inch carbon-fiber inserts for the joints (the guy at the archery shop wanted to get rid of his scraps), 4 5-inch spiral fins for fletches, and 100 grain field points (the heaviest I could find at Wal-Mart). The spiral was an experiment. I've only thrown them a couple of times, but I haven't noticed a great deal of difference in accuracy or their flight. The balance point is almost in the exact center, which I don't like.




This is my brother-in-law's dart. It's about 56.5 inches as well. It's made from some type of bamboo I found my my grandmother's last year. Because it had a lot of splits in it, I bound it from the end to just past the first joint. The feathers are chicken feathers from a craft store. He wanted blue, and I couldnt' find any, so I spray painted them. The foreshaft is pine, from an old drying rack. The point was cut from a sickle section, and shaped with a grinder and a file. When I tested it, I was able to bury the entire foreshaft in a bale of hay. The balance point is about half an inch just in from of the second joint from the front.








For all the wrapping, I used flat waxed 'thread' from a local saddle shop. It looks similar to sinew, but costs about half as much. This was my first attempt at wrapping the fletching on as I have seen other people do. Paleoarts, when you are ready to do the fletching tutorial, Sign me up! I have tons to learn.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 15th, 2009 at 9:33pm
you got it, kjev, but that looks cool! maybe a tad overboard on the wrapping, but overall....badass ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 16th, 2009 at 12:08am
The feathers had a pretty serious curve in them. I had only glued the ends down, and I wanted to make sure they were straight. When I test threw it at my haystack this morning, it buried the entire foreshaft in a bale (about 8 inches), from a distance of about 40 feet. I dunno. A guy could get attached to these wooden darts pretty easy.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 16th, 2009 at 12:39am
they look great k'jev

and thats a great looking point on the bamboo one

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 16th, 2009 at 12:46am
Thanks, Aztec. That's one of the ones I cut from a sickle section. I used a disk grinder with a cut-off disk to do it, and finished it up with a bench grinder and a file. It was an experiment, and I'm so pleased with how it came out, I plan on making more of them.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 16th, 2009 at 1:16am
did you have to straighten the bamboo? im having a hard time getting my cane shafts straight  :(

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 16th, 2009 at 7:27am

K'Jev, that boo dart is superb! Better than anything I've made.  :o

When I am fletching I often keep the thread between my teeth and use both hands to work the feathers and turn the shaft. I use the tip of a knife to part the vanes starting at the quill where I want the thread to go. I try to remember to put everything I need within reach before I start, and have a pull-thru loop ready to finish off the binding with.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Aug 16th, 2009 at 11:53am
Aztec,
I didn't try to straighten it. I did on a previous shaft, and ended up snapping it (probably due to impatience on my part). With this one, I looked down the length of the dart, and marked out the straightest part, then cut the rest off. It's actually not as straight as it looks.

David,
I agree about the tool placement. I swear one of these days I'm going to grow a 3rd and maybe a 4th arm just to hold/hand me things. When I wrapped it, I first smeared some Liquid Nails glue around where I would be wrapping, then put the tail end of my thread where I wanted to finish (say, the base of where the fletching stops at the bottom of the fin). I lay it lengthwise in the glue until I get to where I want to start wrapping (where the fin ends), then wrap my way back up, wrapping over the tail end. After a few turns, the thread is now holding itself to the fin, and I can really pull it tight. When I get to the top, I tuck the end under my last wrap, and pull it tight with pliers. Then, since it's waxed thread, I use a Bic lighter to melt the end of the thread-it's nylon. I mash that to the wraps while it's still hot, melt the wax over the whol wrap to help it stick together, apply another thin layer of Liquid Nails, and when that's dry, a coat of clear nail polish to help protect it.

I did use the tip of my knife to split the vanes, but I got ahead of myself and made all the splits at once. Only problem was, it didn't quite line up with my wrapping, so it doesn't look that great.

Once I had it all wrapped, glued, etc., I used a pair of scissors to trim the vanes down. It's funcitonal, but not going to win any beauty contests.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 18th, 2009 at 6:46pm
ive snaped a few myself  ;D

im working on 2 new atlatls. one is like the one Tom mills made in his youtube vid and the other is kinda like your egyption style's,Chris. i hope you dont mind me stealing ideas  8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 18th, 2009 at 8:25pm
not at all, i'm flattered. ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 19th, 2009 at 4:27am
here we go.. 1st one.

this is one i made after the atlatl that tom mills made in his youtube vid
caveman_atlatl_2.png (968 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 19th, 2009 at 4:28am
excuse my carving skills..
paleo_atlatl.png (1094 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 19th, 2009 at 4:31am
pinky loop!
paleo_atlatl_grip.png (1085 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 19th, 2009 at 4:34am
and heres this one..i loved the one chris made from blood wood so i stained this with red oil paint

the same basic shape and length as the other one but the spur end is flatter
new_atlatl.png (957 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 19th, 2009 at 4:35am
.
new_atlatl_spur.png (1083 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 19th, 2009 at 4:36am

Nice work Aztec. My first one was after Toms videos as well:


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 19th, 2009 at 4:37am
gotta love hemp!
new_atlatl_grip.png (1109 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 19th, 2009 at 4:39am
lol thanks..the groove in your atlatl is alot cleaner..i couldnt get sandpaper in there

last pic i swear  ;D
new_atlatl_grip_2.png (1109 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 19th, 2009 at 8:20pm
nice job, man! i love the spur. it looks like your loops are a little high, though. it'a hard to tell scale so i'm not sure. when your fingers are in the loops does your palm reach the end of the shaft?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 19th, 2009 at 11:25pm
thanks  :)

yea i think they are a tad  to high..but it throws really good .when i pull downwards on the loops and my palm is almostt on the end of the handle though

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Aug 21st, 2009 at 10:11am
I have given my first Fiddler pointed dart a bit of an upgrade, which is enough excuse to for me to post pics  8-)

This is the Fiddler point - 10mm cold rolled steel bar sharpened with an angle grinder. It is epoxied into a 10mm to 15mm copper plumbing adaptor.



The fletches are bound on with cotton thread which is then sealed with pva glue. I didnt use a spiral binding along the length of the quills and it looks quite nice to see them arching free of the shaft. The shaft is 86 inches of cane from a garden store.



Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Aug 21st, 2009 at 1:24pm
ooooh! armor peircing! nice job, david.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Aug 21st, 2009 at 2:37pm
awesome point..lets go hunt some knights in shining armour  ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 21st, 2009 at 4:46pm

aztec wrote on Aug 21st, 2009 at 2:37pm:
awesome point..lets go hunt some knights in shining armour  ;D


dragons taste better, and the scales make great points too...

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 8th, 2009 at 9:48pm
i finished this little honey today!  ;D

and!! my the dart kits i ordered are finally here. i got one of those notice thingys saying a package was at the post ofice for me but i didnt get a chance to go today  :( ill go 1st thing in the moring though
atlatl_002.png (1008 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 9th, 2009 at 1:39am
nice chucker, man! i bet you feel like a kid on christmas eve, don't ya? i know you'll be happy, Bob only makes quality stuff.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 9th, 2009 at 2:34am
thanks! :)  yea i cant wait! . ill post pics when i get them done lol

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 10th, 2009 at 4:16am
shew im done lol.

im pretty happy with how they turned out. but i can tell ya. my fletching skills arent as good as id like.
but i guess it takes practice right? hopefuly they'll last me a good long time  :)
atlatl_darts.png (1371 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 10th, 2009 at 4:18am
the buisness ends!

i decided to keep 2 as broad heads
atlatl_dart_tips.png (1282 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 10th, 2009 at 2:53pm
aztec, those look awesome! i love the green fletchings! i only have one criticism. the spiral wrap is going the wrong way. for the best results, it should go right to left up the shaft (against the grain of the vanes). but, other than that they look great. those broad heads look wicked! good job, man. did you finish the wood with anything?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 10th, 2009 at 4:40pm
i thought the dark green feathers would stand out better if the shaft was light so i just used linseed oil

it seemed like i didnt bend as many barbs going this way.the spirl should still hold up though right?


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 10th, 2009 at 5:47pm
oh, definitely. it's not that big of a deal really. they look great! have you thrown them yet?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 10th, 2009 at 8:48pm
yea and its amazing how much diference it makes to have good darts.

my target is about  2 'by 2 'and i can hit it, or near it 60' away most of the time


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 11th, 2009 at 1:39pm
20 yds is perfect! that's the max distance for ISAC competiton. once you get proficient enough to hit that mark 8 out of 10 times, move it to 25, then 30. once you're confident of hitting targets at 30-40 yards....you're ready for some big game hunting!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 12th, 2009 at 12:03am
i hope i get that good  ;D


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 13th, 2009 at 5:38pm
here's my latest. another 'alaskan', i know, but i just love this style! to me, nothing throws better.
100_1576_640x480.jpg (122 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Sep 14th, 2009 at 7:01am
I'm going to have to to try one of those. What knd of wood did you use?

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 14th, 2009 at 3:44pm
this one is clear pine. i've found that light woods work best for this style. cedar, redwood, pine, and spruce are all ideal.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Sep 14th, 2009 at 4:27pm

Aztec, if those were my darts I'd be well pleased!  8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 15th, 2009 at 12:10am
haha thanks  :) yea..im pretty pleases to but my tips keep coming off..it must be all the oil i put on it cause the epoxy wont stick very good

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 1:23am
i got some of these points today and they are great. i was having a hard time getting my other field tips to stay on but these screw right onto the wood shaft, they are rather pricy though.


http://www.3riversarchery.com/Broadheads+Points+Screw%2DOn++Brass_c57_s109_p0_iGB11%2DX_product.html


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 3:09am
$12 apiece? wow! i've had that problem with the glue on field points before. i just used super glue. i've heard liquid nails works really well to. i buy my 160g points from lancaster archery for about $.60 each so i'd have to lose quite a few before i'd spring for those. they look really cool, though.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 3:26am
12$  for a dozen ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 5:15am
I epoxy my points into place and leave a 'collar' of epoxy around the rear edge of the point and the shaft so the dirt doesnt drag the point off when I pull it out. I havent lost one yet.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 6:43pm
whew! you had me worried there for a minute. i thought you were some eccentric millionare or something. :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 6:45pm
here's my girl sporting the custom 'ranger' model i made her and one of the new 5'6" cane darts. look out, she's deadly with that thing!  ;)
100_1625_640x480.jpg (191 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by xxkid123 on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 7:06pm
so she's your GF?

great atlatl's

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 8:10pm
if i were a millionare i would no doubt be eccentric  :o

man i need a girl friend who wouldnt mind my love for weapons  :( lol

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 8:59pm

Paleoarts wrote on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 6:45pm:
here's my girl sporting the custom 'ranger' model i made her and one of the new 5'6" cane darts. look out, she's deadly with that thing!  ;)


Nice form! I mean . . . the way she's standing. I mean. . . . aww she looks like she knows what she's doing. (You know, there's just no safe way to say that!) :)

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:45am
a few shots from last weekends competition.
100_1672_640x480.jpg (175 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:45am
the wind was up pretty strong, but we managed.
100_1676_640x480.jpg (182 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:47am
Tom Mills, the founder of paleoplanet, had the high score of the day.
100_1670_640x480.jpg (183 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:48am
at least i'm better than him with a sling!  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:21pm
looks like that was a fun day! :)

thats how a target needs to look lol

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Oct 7th, 2009 at 7:04am
The sad part about where I live is there are only three other people who use the atlatl. One is 3, and the other two are 14.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 7th, 2009 at 10:08am
well, Tom traveled about a hundred miles to get here and a few others over half that distance. if you plan ahead and spread the word properly, you will be surprised by how many will attend.




Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 7th, 2009 at 10:14pm
look at the flexing in those first 2 pics!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 7th, 2009 at 11:09pm
pretty cool, huh?  :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 21st, 2009 at 12:10pm
this is my latest. a pseudo woomera inspired by the beautiful examples in Tom Mills' collection. the wood is 'makore' from Africa. it's a light hardwood with a gorgeous grain pattern and a rich color. that grain proved to be a major challenge during carving, as it would reverse without warning! the overall length is 22" with a 'pinky to spur' length of 20". the width at the widest is 1 7/8" and the thickness at the widest is 5/8". the spur is moose antler and the handle is wrapped with leather.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Oct 21st, 2009 at 12:43pm

I love it! Especially the radial carving in the handle dimple  8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 21st, 2009 at 2:16pm
o wow... :o now i want one

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Oct 21st, 2009 at 2:52pm

Paleoarts wrote on Oct 6th, 2009 at 10:45am:
the wind was up pretty strong, but we managed.


Looking at that poor target that´s quite an understatement...

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 21st, 2009 at 7:26pm
thanks, guys.  :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 22nd, 2009 at 11:44am
yet another 'Point Barrow' Alaskan style throwing board. just can't get away from this style! this time, though, i wanted to do something different. traditionally, this thrower is made from lighter woods like cedar or pine, but i decided to go with something exotic. in this case i used 'bloodwood' from Brazil (that's its natural color, by the way). since it's a rather dense and heavy material i had to make it fairly thin to keep the weight down. also i decided to not just carve a narrow channel but hollow out as much of the face as i could. right away i found that carving with the grain is nearly impossible! like the 'makore' i used the day before, the 'bloodwood' has a grain that just up and decides to reverse itself for no good reason. carving across the grain, however, proved to be relatively easy and added a nice look i think. it's 22" overall and about 3/8" thick. the spur is moose antler. you can see in one of the pics that the end split slightly when i pressure fit the spur. luckily, it didn't travel all the way through and after several test throws i'm confident that it will hold up. the slight depression on the handle i carved purely for asthetics, but after throwing with it, i'm of the opinion that it definitely adds a better feel to the cast. i'll probably make that a regular feature of future ones.








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 22nd, 2009 at 6:15pm
another work of art  :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 12:48am
i think ill start working on a couple new atlatls..hopefuly i can produce a decent woomera  :-?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 11:51am
i'm sure you can ;) you make some cool stuff!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 11:54am
this is my first attempt at a true 'basketmaker' atlatl. i've made versions before, but all had bone or antler spurs instead of the traditional carved spur. and, although this isn't to traditional dimensions, i feel it has all the elements of the ancient model. the wood is cocobolo, 22" long, 1 1/4" wide, and 1/4" thick at the widest. the finger loops are elk hide. the bannerstone is 'robins egg' granite. both are secured with artificial sinew. i wasn't sure if the cocobolo would heat bend or not, but it worked much better than i could have hoped. carving the spur proved problematic due to a knot and some crazy grain. my plan was to leave a raised ridge at the spur but i screwed it up. despite this it still holds a dart well and throws beautifully







Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 7:51pm
looks great  :o

and i think it looks better than the traditional width.  and the handle looks to me like it would be more comfortable.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 8:23pm
i want to make an aztec style one too. but i dont have any shells for the finger loops so i ill settle for one like these . mainly the one on the right,

you ever make one like it?
tom_mills_atlatls.jpg (93 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 9:13pm
not yet. i've been planning one kind of like it except the finger holes aren't totally enclosed and the handle is more paddle shaped. you could use bone instead of shells.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 11:03pm
yea maybe if i get a bone thats big enough..that would work

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 11:58pm

aztec wrote on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 8:23pm:
i want to make an aztec style one too. but i dont have any shells for the finger loops so i ill settle for one like these . mainly the one on the right,

you ever make one like it?


You know, looking at the one in the center, if a person used something hard for the spur/ridge, like a piece of bone or stone, you'd have an atlatl that doubled as a pretty spiffy club, too.

And can anyone tell me why some of the Aztec styles were so wide? I've heard a "theory" (and I think it's poop) that a really wide bannerstone (or in this case maybe a wide atlatl) acted as a silencer. I don't know about anyone else, but my atlatls aren't that noisy. So what is the width for?

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 24th, 2009 at 12:41am
im not sure either..maybe someone else can answer  :P

if i do make one ill hafta serously practice throwing split finger.

the last time i tried throwing that way the atlatl went farther than the dart lol

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Oct 24th, 2009 at 8:47am
Just an idea , could it be it doubled as a war club?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 24th, 2009 at 9:04am
ahhh, the old 'atlatl as warclub' debate. :D here's the thing, krugger. the short answer is yes, you can use the atlatl as a club. but here's the rub. as the effectivness of the club goes up, the effectivness of the atlatl goes down and vice versa. a heavy atlatl is too hard to throw efficiently and a light club just doesn't do that much damage. there are ways to get around this, though. you can put a sharp edge on a medium weight atlatl thus making it more effective as a blunt force trauma weapon while still maintaining a reasonable amount of throwing capability.


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 24th, 2009 at 9:11am

Kjev wrote on Oct 23rd, 2009 at 11:58pm:
[quote author=aztec link=1247874616/240#244 date=1256343820]

And can anyone tell me why some of the Aztec styles were so wide? I've heard a "theory" (and I think it's poop) that a really wide bannerstone (or in this case maybe a wide atlatl) acted as a silencer. I don't know about anyone else, but my atlatls aren't that noisy. So what is the width for?

K'Jev
8-)


i've heard this as well. all i can tell you is that different shapes of atlatls do make different sounds, some louder than others. beyond that, i can't comment on whether the wider ones are 'quieter' or not. what i do know, based on personal experience, is that thin wide atlatls are more stable during the cast when using the split finger grip. it's the air resistance.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Oct 24th, 2009 at 10:17am
Another idea is that it  might have the same function as the banner stone, and yes I know, that is also the subject of heated debate. I actually have my own theory on that (well, at least I haven´t seen it before...) I am a physical therapist and it´s a known fact that throwing something light , fast (exemple given a small pebble on a beach walk) is more likely to hurt your shoulder than if you had thrown something heavier. This is especially true for an explosive throw without warming up, for instance after stalking prey. A heavier atllatl might be more comfortable to throw, and safer for the rotator cuff of the thrower.
Mind you this is just conjecture (of someone who never used an atlatl in his life....), for all I know an unweighted atlatl`+ dart are heavy enough  to avoid the “light pebble” risk. Still it´s worth considering, at least I have not seen I really satisfactory explanation of the banner stone.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 24th, 2009 at 10:30am
no, i think you are absolutely right in that respect as do a lot of us in the atlatl community. banner stones are a uniquely american invention most common in the great basin region where a very small and light atlatl was used in conjunction with short darts made from cane. more and more people are coming to the conclusion that the stones served a three fold purpose. first, as a counter balance for stone points so the thrower could maintain a ready pose while stalking game. second, added resistance mass for the light atlatl and dart. third, as a 'fulcrum point' for the toss. after the initial forward motion of the arm, right as the wrist begins to turn, the stone acts as a point of resistance much like the center of a seesaw.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Oct 24th, 2009 at 6:03pm
Here's a pic or three of my "toy". LOL.  I got 110 yrds today with my last throw, this thing really hums.  I hate to say it but I think I like it more then my slings. It's maple, hand carved button and the darts are maple also with milk jug fletching held on by gorilla glue. I'm working on a second dart. They're about 4.5' long with a 6" removable tip bringing em' to a total of just over 5'.
atl1.jpg (278 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Oct 24th, 2009 at 6:04pm
Don't know how to do more then one pic per post so here's pic 2.
atl2.jpg (380 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Oct 24th, 2009 at 6:05pm
and pic 3
atl3.jpg (322 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 24th, 2009 at 6:26pm
Frank, that's awesome for a first effort! mine didn't look half as good. i like the carved spur a lot! the test now is to see if you can hit a target at 20yds.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 24th, 2009 at 7:24pm
looks great frank  :)

i got my bone finger loops done today, so now i just need a good peice of wood. its a good thing my hands are skinny lol the bone was on the small side

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Oct 24th, 2009 at 7:48pm
LOL, yep, I've got the distance down pretty good, need to work on accuracy and more darts.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Oct 24th, 2009 at 11:04pm

TN.Frank wrote on Oct 24th, 2009 at 6:03pm:
Here's a pic or three of my "toy". LOL.  I got 110 yrds today with my last throw, this thing really hums.  I hate to say it but I think I like it more then my slings. It's maple, hand carved button and the darts are maple also with milk jug fletching held on by gorilla glue. I'm working on a second dart. They're about 4.5' long with a 6" removable tip bringing em' to a total of just over 5'.


110 yards? Wow. My best guestimate was 75. I have a cousin who works security at the local college football stadium. I wonder if he'd get me in to try a few shots on the field.

And I like the milk jug fletching idea! My first fletching was "No Trespassing" signs and like you, Gorilla glue. I used hardwood broom handles for the shafts and simply ground the ends down for points.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Oct 24th, 2009 at 11:46pm
These darts are maybe 3/4" at the large end and 3/8" at the small end so they're a lot lighter then something the size of a broom handle.  I'm going to redo the fletching. I'd like to do a 4 fletch and make em' a bit smaller for less air resistance. The Gorilla glue, while ok doesn't hold the fletching as well as I'd like. I wish I could find something else other then plastic to use. I don't think Gorilla glue is all that good for plastic.  I"m sure I'll come up with something.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Oct 25th, 2009 at 7:06am
TN, not sure if this helps or not.

When I used plastic, I cut notches in the sides of the dart. The tricky part was getting them straight. I made them fairly skinny. They only have to be wide enough for the plastic to fit in, and about 1/8 of an inch deep. A pocketknife works well, or a cutting disk on a dremel if you have one.

After that I squirted/oozed in gorilla glue, and then slid the plastic in. The thing I don't like about gorilla glue is the way it expands when it dries. I had to go along afterwards and scrape all the excess stuff off, but it seemed to hold up pretty well. If you try this method, you might also want to take some sandpaper to the edge that will fit in the dart, and rough it up some. That will give the glue more purchase.

Paleoarts has written an excellent fletching tutorial that I turned into a PDF. I can send it to you if you like. As for where to get feathers, craft stores work, someone with birds (like chickens, parrots, peacocks or geese) might have some.

OR (and you have to be careful for health and legal reasons here). . .

Roadkill. :P

There are also places that sell fletching feathers. I recommend bright colors, because I tend to lose my darts in tall grass otherwise. If you end up with plain white feathers and you want something different, spray paint is a good way to color them.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Oct 25th, 2009 at 4:44pm
I saw the duct tape fletching deal, it's only a two fletch, I wonder how well it actually works?
I did cut grooves in the first dart for the plastic vanes to sit in but the gorilla glue just doesn't stick to plastic very well.  I'll probably just break down and get some feather fletching  and use it.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 25th, 2009 at 5:26pm
PM sent. check your mail box, Frank.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 26th, 2009 at 10:18pm
my new aztec inspired atlatl  :)

poplar with bone finger loops and a bone spur
aztec_style_atlatl.png (1132 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 26th, 2009 at 10:19pm
...
aztec_style_atlatl_3.png (1103 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 26th, 2009 at 10:21pm
...
aztec_style_atlatl_2.png (1045 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 27th, 2009 at 1:04am
awesome! i love it! what's the wood?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 27th, 2009 at 1:11am
thanks its 22'' of poplar   ;)

i need a better pic though before i post it on paleoplanet ::)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 27th, 2009 at 1:14am
lol! i know what you mean.  ;D here it's like show and tell with your friends, there it's like showing to your mom and dad!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 27th, 2009 at 1:15am
yea lol and the grouchy grandparents( jk ;D)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 27th, 2009 at 5:10pm
i edited the pics  :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 27th, 2009 at 6:44pm
very cool, man! ;) how does it throw?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 27th, 2009 at 7:38pm
thanks   ;D it does great , and holding it that way is a lot easier than i had thought

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 28th, 2009 at 1:22pm
a pseudo 'basketmaker'
i was fooling around with different grips for split finger atlatls and came up with this idea for a 'loopless' handle. ideally, the ridges on the side would be larger and curve upwards more to prevent the atlatl from slipping out the throwers grasp, but i was limited by the width of the material at hand. despite this it throws quite well. i like the paddle at the base. it fits the palm well and provides a comfortable grip on the turn over. the wood is padouk from Africa. this stuff is gorgeous and perplexing. it's a hardwood that's light and yet extremely tough. it has an open grain like red oak, a color like bloodwood, sands and cuts like pine, is flexible like ash, and the most heat resistant wood i have ever come across! i blasted it with the heat gun for nearly an hour trying to bend it and there wasn't a scorch mark on it. not only that, but it resisted bending like nothing i've seen. i clamped one end to a table and hung a 3 lbs lead weight from the other and after 45 minutes of constantly apllied heat, i only managed to flex it 1/4 of an inch. luckily, i made this one a little longer than i usually would have, 26" overall, so the slight bend is enough to get a clear dart channel path. i'm showing it here without weights but i might add one later after i've thrown it more.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:13pm

Very pretty. The chisel work is incredibly even.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:17pm
thanks, David. ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:18pm
that looks sweet, i love how that type of  wood finish's off

have you tried it out yet

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:22pm
thanks. yeah, as best i could. i've been nursing a bum arm now for several weeks and can only manage a few throws before it starts giving out. it didn't help that my roommates and i had a sling contest last week either. :-[  all in all i'm very happy with its performance, though i wish the finger stops were larger and the shaft at the base was rounder. next one will be dead on.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 28th, 2009 at 5:25pm
it  takes a prototype or two  to zero it in  ;)


and my woomera is almost done

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 28th, 2009 at 6:28pm
can't wait to see it!  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 28th, 2009 at 6:36pm
here we go  ;D


woomera.png (2177 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 28th, 2009 at 6:39pm
now im gonna go try it out   before it gets dark ::)
woomera_2.png (2176 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 28th, 2009 at 7:12pm
sweet! time to go hunt some roo!  :D  love the burn marks. what is the spur made from? how did you set it?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Oct 28th, 2009 at 8:09pm
i might can find some  at  the petting zoo's  8-)

the spur's antler  i drilled a hole and i tapped it in with a little glue

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Oct 29th, 2009 at 5:32am
Okay you guys did it, I also have an atlatl underway. It´s a slow proces, because of my broken collarbone (it´s a b*tch; now I have time, but can´t do a lot....). I made a spur out of ramshorn, the shaft/handle I plan to make out of a baton I made ages ago by laminating 4 pieces of some kind of tropical hardwood, its slightly bend, and about 60 cm long, should do nicely. Stil musing about how the grip should look....
I actually see not much trouble making the atlatl itself, the darts I expect to be the difficult part to get right.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Oct 29th, 2009 at 6:59am
The darts can be easy or difficult. If you go the unprimitive way and use aluminum arrows, they can be pretty easy.

If you want primitive darts, they are a little more time consuming, but with practice, go pretty quickly as well. I'm talking about cane-type darts with foreshafts here. They do make kits. Some of the ones I have seen are hardwood shafts with bodkin-type points.

Hopefully I will accomplish enough on my "Honey Do" list that I can put together a half-dozen primitive darts. I'll try to take pictures and put together a tutorial--not that I am a master by any means. I've only built 4 of them.

When it comes to fletching, Paleoarts' fletching tutorial is an excellent resource.

And good luck. I've done the collarbone thing. For a silly bone that doesn't seem to do a whole lot, it's sure difficult to operate without it.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Oct 29th, 2009 at 7:17am

Two metres of 12mm dowel or 1.6 metres of 9mm dowel make great dart shafts. The 9mm shaft will take a large archery point with a little thinning, the 12mm shaft will need something bigger.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Oct 29th, 2009 at 9:40am
Thanks guys, yeah, the collarbone thing is boring, at least I broke it so thorough (in 4 parts) that they had to operate, usually collarbones are tied in an 8 bandage to heal (that what happened to you Kjev?). I now have a plate in my shoulder with 5 screws (partly visible under the skin), and an impressive scar, very frankensteinesque....
Anyway living here in Iceland has pro´s and cons. Very poor availability of "wild" wood, difficult to find sticks (got some willow and poplar last year, now drying, but not great stuff). Cane is non existent, bamboo depends on the latest gardening fashion.
On the upside, I can easily get ramshorn, and I´m now discovering that that´s really fun stuff to work with. Also I might have found a source of reindeer antler.
When the atlatl is done I´ll try that dowel advice David, DIY is the only option for me (The biggest part of the fun imo). I´d say I lean toward the primitive without making it too difficult for myself  (no need for pine tar when epoxy holds better, and doesn´t look any different... ;))

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Oct 29th, 2009 at 10:49am
Kuggur, willow makes good darts! if it isn't long enough, get two pieces roughly the same size and scarf joint them together. use heat to straighten them.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Oct 29th, 2009 at 11:36am
One nice thing about the dart/foreshaft idea is that you can actually use a dart that would be on the short side and make it long enough by adding the length to the foreshaft.  My maple sapling shafts are about 4.5' long, just a bit shorter then I'd like but by adding a 6" foreshaft with point they're right at 5' which is what I wanted them to be. I can even go longer on the foreshaft and make the oal of the darts longer.
Remember, on an all wood dart you can straighten em' over a fire so the blanks don't have to be perfectly straight. I have one that had a pretty good bend in it and straightend it up so it's not bad at all.
The duct tape fletching, while not being "primitive", does work well and is pretty easy to apply.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Oct 31st, 2009 at 1:38am

wrote on Oct 29th, 2009 at 9:40am:
Thanks guys, yeah, the collarbone thing is boring, at least I broke it so thorough (in 4 parts) that they had to operate, usually collarbones are tied in an 8 bandage to heal (that what happened to you Kjev?). I now have a plate in my shoulder with 5 screws (partly visible under the skin), and an impressive scar, very frankensteinesque....


Off topic, but I was in a Tae Kwan Do class when I was 17. In the last night of class before our family moved, I sparred 22 matches in a row and won 21. On the 22nd I tried to spar two guys at once. Jumped up, kicked one in the chest and he caught my leg while I was still in mid-air. I fell back the other guy tried to catch me and missed, and I landed on my shoulder/head, knocked myself goofy for 3 days, and tore all the tendons loose on the arm end of my collarbone. 21 years later it still sticks up a bit.

Nothing as cool as a scar though. Oddly enough, six years later the guy who caught my leg ended up as my Kyokushin teacher. Great class, I loved it (til I had to move again for college), but the first time he used me to demonstrate a self defense move was a little creepy.

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Nov 1st, 2009 at 3:49pm
A matching athame and atlatl, made from the same branch, given to my friends Sef and Kash on their handfasting this Samhain. There were also three darts, 60" x 3/8" with 11/32" field points and goose feather fletching bound on with black thread.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 1st, 2009 at 7:50pm
very cool  :D   they are gonna love 'em.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 2nd, 2009 at 6:42pm
i don't know what to call this one. i guess it's a egyptian/basketmaker hybrid. it's made from cocobolo, 22" long, 1 3/8" wide, and 1/4" thick. the finger loops are elk hide and the spur is moose antler.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 2nd, 2009 at 6:46pm
and here's october's efforts. not bad for a guy with a gimpy arm, i guess.  :P


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Nov 2nd, 2009 at 10:53pm
they'll all great but i like the woomera best  ;)

david, those look great but whats an athame ? i dont believe ive heard that word before


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Nov 3rd, 2009 at 5:22am

aztec wrote on Nov 2nd, 2009 at 10:53pm:

david, those look great but whats an athame ? i dont believe ive heard that word before


Its a neopagan term for a ceremonial knife used in rituals.


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 6th, 2009 at 6:14pm
a Kakadu/Palati (northern Australia) inspired woomera.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Nov 6th, 2009 at 11:30pm
that awesome and different. never seen one like that before  :o
and i love the spur it  looks like one of your harpoons

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Nov 7th, 2009 at 3:33am

Another superb piece, but I'd like it more without the fingerloops. I would round off the tip of the spur as well, it looks a bit too sharp to release cleanly.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 7th, 2009 at 9:57am
thanks, guys.

David. i agree about the loops, but the handle is too thin to throw comfortably without them. the originals had a large bulb built up on the end out of asphaltum or tree gum, something i haven't tried yet. the spur actually does quite well in the shallow knock of my ash darts but you might be right when it comes to cane darts. i'll have to experiment and see.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 8th, 2009 at 3:40pm
this is my version of an Aztec atlatl. the wood is Brazilian 'zicote', the spur and finger loops are bone. the wrapping is waxed flax. it's 22" overall. this is the first time i've made this style and, i have to say, i'm impressed with it's performance. the hard loops add a totally different feel and demand a very particular grip, but the effect is dramatic. i finally know what Devin has been talking about as far as the relaxed 'throwing a baseball' type of cast. there's something about those loops that lends itself to this type of throw. i've also found that long, thin darts are the way to go with this one and am experimenting with laying them directly against the atlatl itself instead of propping them up with my fingers.








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Nov 8th, 2009 at 3:48pm
beautiful, i love everything about it!

so the loops are flexible?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 8th, 2009 at 5:46pm
well, the bone itself isn't flexible of course, but by being tied on the way they are, they have up and down movement and a little give. the stiffness allows the hand to relax its grip on the atlatl itself and concentrate all the effort into the 'baseball' throw. it's different then any other type i've used but very effective. those Aztecs definitely knew what they were doing!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Nov 8th, 2009 at 9:54pm
So are the bone loops comfortable?

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 8th, 2009 at 10:24pm
well, i wont lie and say they are as comfortable as leather ones, but with a relaxed grip and the throwing style mentioned above it's not bad at all. the big advantage is in the added torque the stiff loops provide in the turn over. this is the key to the 'baseball' throw. it happens much later (and much faster) than a normal toss and would be extremely difficult with soft loops.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by sash on Nov 9th, 2009 at 9:55am

Paleoarts wrote on Oct 28th, 2009 at 1:22pm:
a pseudo 'basketmaker'
. . . the wood is padouk from Africa. this stuff is gorgeous and perplexing. it's a hardwood that's light and yet extremely tough. it has an open grain like red oak, a color like bloodwood, sands and cuts like pine, is flexible like ash, and the most heat resistant wood i have ever come across! i blasted it with the heat gun for nearly an hour trying to bend it and there wasn't a scorch mark on it. not only that, but it resisted bending like nothing i've seen. i clamped one end to a table and hung a 3 lbs lead weight from the other and after 45 minutes of constantly apllied heat, i only managed to flex it 1/4 of an inch. luckily, i made this one a little longer than i usually would have, 26" overall, so the slight bend is enough to get a clear dart channel path. i'm showing it here without weights but i might add one later after i've thrown it more.
. . .


Padouk is definitely amazing wood.  Very durable marimbas are made of padouk, and they resist warping in damp weather.  Lots of secondary schools use padouk marimbas in their band programs, because of their durability and resistance to warping.  They have the sound of more expensive woods, and near the durability of fiberglass.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 9th, 2009 at 10:54am
it is amazing stuff, isn't it? i've got another piece laying around but haven't settled on a design yet.

oh, and welcome to the forum, Sash.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 9th, 2009 at 6:10pm
a new 'point barrow' style atlatl
made of birch with a tung oil finish and a moose antler spur. 22" overall. simple and sexy!


















Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Nov 9th, 2009 at 6:25pm
thats one of the nicest grain ive seen in any wood, what i like best is it looks like the wood was twisted at the handle, thats some mad carving  ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 9th, 2009 at 6:29pm
thanks, man. i try :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 10th, 2009 at 5:27pm
a new Australian 'Palati' (woomera)

this thrower is based on a type used by the Kakadu people of the northern coastal region of Australia. it's much longer than most of my atlatls at 28", but barely 1/4" at its thickest thereby keeping it fairly light in weight. the main body is 'marblewood', the handle composites are 'padouk', and the spur is bone. the wrapping for the spur and handle is waxed flax and the spur is also capped with a little PPG. my only regret with this one is that i didn't have a crocodile tooth to use as the spur!










Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Nov 10th, 2009 at 5:35pm

Oh yes. Oh, very yes.  8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 11th, 2009 at 3:14pm
here's an 'Ozark Bluff Dweller' style thrower. the originals are very simpley made, crude even, and there is debate as to whether this is an actual cultural style or just 'made in the field' survival type thrower. regardless, it's an extremely ergonomic and effective design. this one is 26" overall, made of 'bloodwood' with a tung oil finish and bone cross pieces.











Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Nov 11th, 2009 at 11:38pm
you made that style look great lol  ;D i like the spur best of all. is the bone one peice or 2?

i finished an atlatl today and its kinda odd looking but i bassed it mostly from a book so im courious what everyone will think. ill try to take some good pics tommorow

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 12th, 2009 at 12:09am
thanks, Aztec. it's a two piece. i wanted a flair at the ends so i had to make it a two piece. can't wait to see yours  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 12th, 2009 at 3:45pm
this is my take on the Bristol Bay throwing board found in Kadiak, Alaska in 1884. it's 21" long, made of 'bocote' with a tung oil finish. bone spur and finger pegs.








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Nov 12th, 2009 at 5:18pm
your starting to get me fired up with these alasken styles. i want one now

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 12th, 2009 at 5:37pm
dude, they're great! once you throw with one, you don't want anything else. they are the most ergonomic style out there and absolutely perfect for hunting. the dart channels act as quick loading devices. you don't even have to look at your spur, just shove a dart in the channel and it self-seats.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Jwest12 on Nov 12th, 2009 at 6:35pm
Wow, atlatls look like a lot of fun. I can't wait until summer so I can try using one. Where do you guys recommend I look to begin making my first one?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Nov 12th, 2009 at 6:48pm
i use to be like..thats kinda..weird looking   :-/

but now i really like that style. i lke the birch one you made best

maybe i can get one in the great atlatl trade lol


hey jwest,

lots of info and guides on making atlatls  over  at
http://paleoplanet.net/

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Nov 12th, 2009 at 7:21pm
yep, paleoplanet's the place. once you're there, go to the WAA (world atlatl association) forum page. all kinds of info, guides, build alongs, and people to answer your questions.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Dec 4th, 2009 at 9:58am
here are a few new atlatls i knocked out this week.

the first one is an 'Egyptian' model i custom made for someone. it's 23" long, made of bloodwood with braided leather finger loops and a deer antler spur.






the next is one i made for my girlfriend. it's a 'guitar' handled basketmaker style made of tulipwood with purpleheart laminates. the figer loops are tanned doe hide, and the weight is wrapped with sinew. the whole thing is just over 18".









and, finally, we have what i'm calling my 'ice age hunter'. 21" long, made of birch with an almost unmodified deer antler spur secured with sinew. the handle is wrapped with leather thong.








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Dec 4th, 2009 at 12:42pm
i should update too  ;D


heres a couple that are aztec inspired
new_aztec_atlatls_3.png (2227 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Dec 4th, 2009 at 12:46pm
this beauty was made by chris.

if anyone out there is doubting his mad atlatl making skills ,ill hafta have a talk with you  :o lol
alsaskan_atlatl.png (1196 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Dec 4th, 2009 at 12:50pm
heres  a group pic of the best ones ive made so far
weapon_display.png (1372 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Dec 4th, 2009 at 7:07pm
i just love that aztec (second from left)! those bone loops are just too cool.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Dec 5th, 2009 at 12:56am
thanks  :) i really love the bone loops.. when i get another good sized bone i think ill either make a new one or make new loops for the flared one

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Dec 5th, 2009 at 6:04am
Are the bone loops very comfortable?

Do they affect how it throws at all?

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Dec 5th, 2009 at 4:27pm
very comfortable  :) it helps me get a firmer grip while using split finger.




Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 6th, 2010 at 3:04pm
A NEW BASKET MAKER

well, after making several basket maker-ish throwers, i decided it was high time to give the real thing a try. 18" long, made of 'purpleheart' with deer hide loops and weight gaskets. loops and weights wrapped with sinew. although not an exact reproduction by any means (the loops in particular), i think it captures the spirit and engineering essentials of the originals. on a side note, i tried fitting and throwing a dart prior to attaching the weights and found it nearly impossible. the forward mass of the dart raised the back end of the atlatl and prevented me from getting the proper grip causing the knock to repeatedly slip off the spur. after the weights were on the whole thing came into balance and the dart seated perfectly. they also added greatly to the smoothness and power of the throw. this type of atlatl is used with an open handed relaxed grip through the forward motion that snaps closed right at the end, much like throwing a baseball. oh, and for those that don't know, a 'basket maker' atlatl is a type of thrower associated with the ancient culture of the same name from the four corners region of the american southwest. they are generally very small and light as are the darts.











Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jan 6th, 2010 at 5:04pm
very nice. i like the loops. are the leather  strips wraped around somthing? or is it just twisted?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 6th, 2010 at 5:37pm
thanks. they're wrapped around another piece of hide.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by hybrid_throwback on Jan 6th, 2010 at 8:28pm
that looks great PA. ever considered getting work making props for the latest ancient-epoch blockbuster?  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by walter on Jan 6th, 2010 at 8:58pm
Beautiful thrower PA and thanks for the pic showing how to hold it. Do you think the stones that American Indians attached to their atlatls were used for the same purpose.

walter

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 7th, 2010 at 12:16am
thanks, Walter. for the basket makers, most definitely. for the other types such as the indian knolls which employ 'banner stones' as opposed to simple weights, the jury is still out.

HT, funny you should mention that. i sold several items to a prop manager not long ago. keep a look out for a Nat Geo special on the early domestication of dogs. you might recognize some of the gear.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 8th, 2010 at 5:08pm
the bastard child of several styles, primarily 'basket maker' and 'ozark bluff', i'm calling this one the 'Minotaur'. 20" overall, it is made of bloodwood with caribou antler finger pegs. just one test run and it's already my favorite split finger thrower! the pegs allow great torque and the paddle handle provides excellent stability during the cast. the flared head has just enough mass to negate the need for added weights. i'm using short (5' 6") thin cane darts with this one, like i would with a standard basket maker, and i'm getting superb accuracy. definitely have to make some more of these.

Chris







Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jan 8th, 2010 at 5:42pm

You are into the realms of dark fantasy with that one, it is definitely one for an evil half-lizard to cast darts with ragged black feathers and a long serrated bone point.

Or maybe I just need to get some sleep....  :-/

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 8th, 2010 at 6:14pm
;D lol! you're pretty dead on with that, David. that's more or less what was going through my mind as i was making it. now, go to bed!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jan 8th, 2010 at 8:16pm
mann thats so evil looking. if orcs had atlatls thats what they would look like  ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 9th, 2010 at 4:44pm
lol! thanks, aztec. here's a new 'woomera'....

made of quilted bubinga with composite handle of purpleheart and an unmodified antler spur secured with sinew. although it's over 24" long, it is by far the lightest atlatl i've made to date. the bubinga is a marvelous wood combining strength, beauty and an almost iridescent grain that was a joy to work. this thrower handles my larger darts with ease, flexing nicely and providing a very smooth release with a lot of power.







Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Jan 11th, 2010 at 3:31pm
Wow, all of those are awesome. I like the way you put the leather between the atlatl and the weights to help it not slip around once it's tied down. Great job. ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Jan 13th, 2010 at 3:38pm
Here's a pic of my latest one, it's in the middle.
SANY0194.jpg (355 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Jan 13th, 2010 at 3:39pm
Here's a second pic.
SANY0195.jpg (420 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 13th, 2010 at 4:10pm
very cool, Frank  :D  that is what is known as an 'Ozark Bluff Dweller' style thrower. it's named after the ancient culture discovered in western Arkansas and based on one intact atlatl and several fragments of others. the originals are simple branches with bark removed and carved spurs and a separet cross peg fitted through a drilled hole. here is a really nice recreation of the original by David Morningstar...




Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jan 13th, 2010 at 4:39pm
awesome work frank  :)


ive made a couple in that style. it amaze's me how good they throw

ive been chuckin with this one alot this week
new_ozark.png (1466 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Jan 13th, 2010 at 5:15pm
So the one with a peg thru the handle is an Ozark style. What are the ones with the cord/leather loops called?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 13th, 2010 at 6:21pm
Nice atlatls! I really should get around to making one, but I'm kinda lazy and don't know what to use for darts.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jan 14th, 2010 at 3:51am

Et Cetera wrote on Jan 13th, 2010 at 6:21pm:
Nice atlatls! I really should get around to making one, but I'm kinda lazy and don't know what to use for darts.


Easy. Six and a half feet of 12mm or 1/2" dowel, straight grain, no knots. Metal point, duct tape or feather for fletching.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Jan 15th, 2010 at 1:59pm
I'm thinking about making up another Ozark Bluff Dweller Atlatl. This time I'll thin it out more on the sides so it looks less like the Basket Makers style but I'll still use an add on peg instead of carving it. It's just a bit simpler for me to make em' that way. I'll have to go out back and see what I can find. Talk to ya'll later.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 15th, 2010 at 7:51pm
another Basket Maker. made of osage orange, 24" long with deer hide finger loops and weight gasket, bound with sinew.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 15th, 2010 at 8:15pm
Do you put some sort of clear coat on them or just burnish it? They're shiny!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Mordechaj on Jan 15th, 2010 at 9:43pm
first try, made of a found broomstick


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 15th, 2010 at 10:19pm
cool, M. now, take the other piece of broomstick and carve a spur directly into it, thin the shaft, and drill a hole for a cross peg at the handle and you'll have an 'Ozark Bluff' atlatl as well. if you want some examples just type in 'ozark bluff dweller' on the search engine over at paleoplanet.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 15th, 2010 at 10:22pm
EC, i use several grades of sandpaper and sanding sponges.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by walter on Jan 16th, 2010 at 12:33pm
A few years back a lot of people were saying that the spur should be at a 30 something degree angle, but I noticed on the basket weaver atlatls that the spur runs parrallel to the handle.  

I've also got a few questions for anyone that actually hunts with an atlatl. What is your favorite style for a hunting atlatl. Is it as long as your forearm (from finger tips to elbow) and does the spur have a degree?

walter

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 16th, 2010 at 1:15pm
Walter, atlatls vary in size and style as much or more than the people who use them. they range in length from 6 to 36" and in mass from dainty little things to big ol' monsters that could club a moose to death.  i would say the average is between 20 and 24" long depending on mass and material used. as far as spur angle, again that depends on the style of thrower, the type of dart being thrown, and the individual. the 'basket makers' have carved spurs versus insets so they tend to be 'in-line' spurs, but the throwing style of these atlatls is a flatter or more straight movement with an abrupt wrist flick at the end, so this type of spur works quite well. compare this with some of the Australian 'woomeras' which tend to be large and have attached spurs at almost a 45 degree angle. these are meant to throw very large heavy darts and the throwing style is an almost instant turn over of the wrist at the beginning of the cast.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Jan 16th, 2010 at 1:50pm
My carved in spurs aren't at much of an angle. My drilled in ones are normally about 45 deg, like Paleoarts said and the "natural" ones are probably about 25-30 deg.
In theory you'd want the spur to keep contact with the dart for the entire arch of the throw but even the almost flat, carved in ones work well enough. I don't think this is something we really need to "over think" or we'll just end up like they did with the bow, coming up with a totally complicated machine like the Compound Bow.   ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 16th, 2010 at 6:11pm
I finally got around to making an atlatl... The first one was kind of a flop, but the second one is a bit of an improvement.
Now for the darts... I might go buy some 1/2" dowel, but what if I can't find one long enough? Also, for the back of the dart (where the nock would go on an arrow) do I just make a little hollow spot?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 16th, 2010 at 8:23pm
EC, you can join two shorter pieces together fairly easily by using what is called a 'scarf joint'. basically, you just cut two pieces at the same angle, glue them together, and wrap with sinew, string, or fabric. it creates a very strong joint. ideally, the angle of the cut should be much greater than the one i have pictured. the more surface arear you have touching each other, the better.




as for the knock, that's the easiest thing to do. just make a little depression in the end of the dart with the tip of a knife and you're good to go.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Jan 17th, 2010 at 10:30am
Since I'm using sapplings they have a natural tapper to em' so that the tip end is around 5/8" and the knock end is about 3/8". I use a small drill of proper size to hand cut the hollow knock in my darts. IIRC it's just under 3/8" in size. I also wrap a bit of jute cord around the knock end to keep it from splitting. You can cut a short length and unravel it so you'll get three strands. One of these thin strands wrapped around the end after some glue is applyed for about 1/2" or so will strengthen the knock so it'll not split out when you throw the dart.
With river cane you won't have to worry about doing any drilling since you can just cut back from a joint about 1/4" and you'll have a ready made hollow. Just wrap with cord to reinforce it and you'll be done.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 17th, 2010 at 11:06am
don't make your knocks too deep! if they are, the spur will catch and your darts will tail drop on you. the knocks on my milled ash darts are only about 1/8" deep and even less on my cane darts. just a shallow depression is all that's required.

Frank, you might consider tapering the front 1/3 end of your sapling darts to match the tail end. this will give you more flexibility and balance while still keeping the center of mass forward.

Chris

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by TN.Frank on Jan 17th, 2010 at 12:47pm

Paleoarts wrote on Jan 17th, 2010 at 11:06am:
Frank, you might consider tapering the front 1/3 end of your sapling darts to match the tail end. this will give you more flexibility and balance while still keeping the center of mass forward.

Chris


I had planed on using 3/8" dowels for the foreshafts so that I can use standard arrow points. I was also thinking about tapering the front end of the saplings down so that when rapped they'd only be a bit larger then the foreshafts so it looks like we're on the same page so to speak,LOL. ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jan 17th, 2010 at 3:58pm

Paleoarts wrote on Jan 17th, 2010 at 11:06am:
don't make your knocks too deep! if they are, the spur will catch and your darts will tail drop on you. the knocks on my milled ash darts are only about 1/8" deep and even less on my cane darts. just a shallow depression is all that's required.

Frank, you might consider tapering the front 1/3 end of your sapling darts to match the tail end. this will give you more flexibility and balance while still keeping the center of mass forward.

Chris



i made this mistake alot when i 1st got started. besides them flying tail down . ive had the the knocks split out and even the spur knocked out of the atlatl

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jan 17th, 2010 at 4:23pm

aztec wrote on Jan 17th, 2010 at 3:58pm:

Paleoarts wrote on Jan 17th, 2010 at 11:06am:
don't make your knocks too deep! if they are, the spur will catch and your darts will tail drop on you. the knocks on my milled ash darts are only about 1/8" deep and even less on my cane darts. just a shallow depression is all that's required.

Frank, you might consider tapering the front 1/3 end of your sapling darts to match the tail end. this will give you more flexibility and balance while still keeping the center of mass forward.

Chris



i made this mistake alot when i 1st got started. besides them flying tail down . ive had the the knocks split out and even the spur knocked out of the atlatl


Me too... flying tail down and split canes. I now use a hardwood plug to form the base of the nock if I cant cut it at a node.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 17th, 2010 at 8:49pm
one other thing to consider when using foreshafts is to taper the hole you create in your mainshaft and taper the foreshaft to match. the hole in the mainshaft should be tapered all the way out to a feathery edge and the diameter of the foreshaft should be as big or bigger than the mainshaft. this will prevent splitting and the foreshaft from going any further into the hole once the mainshaft is wrapped, and also create a super tight seal that can withstand multiple impacts.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 17th, 2010 at 10:35pm
Isn't there some way of doing it with a copper pipe? I thought I read that somewhere where a segment of a copper pipe was used to join the pieces. Would that work?
Here's the link
http://atlatl.timothymoyers.com/make-a-good-dart.htm
What do you guys think of this method? Would it work well?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 18th, 2010 at 12:14am
for joining two shorter pieces together to form one dart? the problem with that is that you add unneeded weight and create a weak spot at each end of the pipe where it will most likely snap under pressure. by scarf jointing, you have a bond that allows flexibility without compromising strength or weight. the same would apply for a foreshaft.

i've tried that method of slipping a pipe over the end of a dart. over time, they always break. i have rivercane darts with hardwood foreshafts fitted like i've described above that i've thrown several hundred times and they are as good as the day i made them. it's just a much better system and easier to do than you might think. look at paleoaleo's (tom mills') dart manufacturing video on youtube and you'll see what i mean.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 6:39pm
Ooo! My sister is sleeping... Perfect time to borrow her camera... I'll post a picture of my first (well actually second) atlat.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 6:50pm
Here's a few pictures
100_4083.JPG (166 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 6:50pm
another
100_4085.JPG (215 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 6:51pm
...
100_4080.JPG (213 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 6:51pm
here's my very first one, not very good
100_4086.JPG (201 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 6:52pm
Close up of the end. I accidentally chopped off the part I was going to carve into the point (spur?) and had to glue one on.
Oh, how do you get multiple pictures per post? I couldn't figure it out, hope no one minds a few extra posts.  :D
100_4087.JPG (90 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 7:24pm
i think they both look good  :)

maybe some finger loops would help with griping the 1st one you made

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 7:44pm
i agree with Aztec. they are both cool looking.

to post more than one pic you have to use the image tags. when you open the reply page, click on the third box up above (the one that looks like a picture in a frame). this will give you these symbols . paste your pic inbetween these and repeat as many times as you want. be sure to resize your photos to 640x480. it really helps make it easier if you use photobucket. it's free and they have the image tags inplanted automatically. all you do is right click, copy, and paste.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 10:26pm
Whoops mine were a bit big, I'll make 'em a bit smaller next time. I added finger loops to the first one pictured, and tomorrow I might make some darts.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 25th, 2010 at 2:08pm
ergo-alaskan

with this one i wanted to make an atlatl based purely on ergonomics, one that fit my hand as perfectly as possible and become just an extension of my arm. i settled on the basic design characteristics of the Alaskan style throwers because i find these to be the most efficient and comfortable of all the styles i've tried so far, and because i think they're cool! 22" long, made of clear birch with a bone spur and an oil finish.







Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jan 25th, 2010 at 2:28pm

Very nice as ever, Chris.

Et Cetera, yours are looking good too. They are just like my early throwers. With a good dart you'll be throwing well in no time.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by walter on Jan 25th, 2010 at 9:38pm
Paleoarts, that is one beautiful and impressive looking thrower!

walter

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 26th, 2010 at 1:41am
thanks, guys.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 26th, 2010 at 7:31am
Nice! What do you use to cut out the groove thing?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 26th, 2010 at 11:18am
wood carving tools. basically, a small curved chisel.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 26th, 2010 at 2:38pm
a new 'Egyptian' model.
20" long. made of a combination of African muhama, osage orange, and bloodwood with a pressure fitted bone spur. i still haven't decided to put finger loops on it or not as the extra flared handle might negate the need for them.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Masiakasaurus on Jan 26th, 2010 at 7:33pm
Did you laminate the wood together before working on it? I can't imagine any other way of getting that to look so good.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 26th, 2010 at 10:35pm
exactly, M. elmers glue and 'C' clamps will work wonders.  :P

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jan 28th, 2010 at 7:39am
Quick question about scarf joints... will rawhide work for the wrapping? If so, how's it done?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 28th, 2010 at 10:45am
i'm pretty sure rawhide will work but the addition of glue might be needed. the important things to remember are to make sure that the angles of your joints are long enough and that the wrapping be super tight, cover completely, and extend at least an inch and a half past both ends.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Mordechaj on Jan 28th, 2010 at 5:47pm

and


I'm still in experimental stage, getting experience in wood shaping.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by hybrid_throwback on Jan 28th, 2010 at 6:39pm
hey, nice looking thrower! what's it made of?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Mordechaj on Jan 29th, 2010 at 12:38pm
Thanks!
The upper one is made from hazel, I can't remember if lower one is from hazel too.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Jan 29th, 2010 at 2:26pm
very cool, M! those look almost identical to the very first throwers i made ;) have you had a chance to use them yet?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Mordechaj on Jan 29th, 2010 at 6:53pm
I still haven't made any darts.
I guess I'll make some darts in about 10 days, after my exam passes -> I have materials for throwers at hand, but I have to go shopping for dowel rods for darts...

and here's a new atlatl i made today.
Yes, I'm a bit hyper-productive ATM :P







Yes, I am aware that the spur is too high for the groove to have expected effect.
That was ... uh, just the thing I was trying to achieve! Yes, right...

p.s. the wood always cracks at ends a bit - why is that? is it still too fresh?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by hybrid_throwback on Jan 29th, 2010 at 8:00pm
Probably needs more curing off, and could be because making a thrower is a fairly imbalanced business ie much more stuff removed on some sides than others which plays hell with the grain, some of which is under more tension than others so it twists itself apart.

Try painting ends of branches to seal them and letting em sit around for a few months or as SOON as you're done, oil or wax what you've made and you might be lucky enough to have it keep itself together.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Mordechaj on Jan 30th, 2010 at 4:46am
thanks. the cracks aren't big, so the throwers are still usable, I hope.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Jan 30th, 2010 at 6:13am
Those cracks at the ends are called checking. It happens as the wood dries after being cut because the ends dry faster than the middle, they have more surface area.

The simplest way to deal with this is to cut the wood longer than you need, let it dry then cut of the checked bits :)

The other way is to seal the ends with PVA wood glue as soon as you cut it,  this blocks moisture escaping from the ends so everything dries at the same rate.

Remove the bark while the wood is fresh, it is much easier and will dry faster. A branch sized piece kept warm indoors will dry in a couple of weeks.

One woodworking technique I use a lot now is scraping. Take a sharp blade and hold it at 90 degrees to the surface. Start the blade moving then touch it down to the surface with light pressure. Lift off before you stop moving. This removes very fine shavings, midway between sanding and carving.

Scraping removes toolmarks and scratches very effectively. Bumps and knots in the surface can cause the blade to bounce leaving ripples  - vary the angle the blade is pointing in to avoid these. Always scrape in the 'downhill' grain direction or you will roughen up the ends of the exposed grain.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Feb 1st, 2010 at 4:41pm
I finally made some darts! They're not the best, made out of ole oak trim board. They're square, does that make a huge difference in how they fly?
I already destroyed the tape fletchings, sent them through some bushes and a pine tree.  :P :-/

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by hybrid_throwback on Feb 1st, 2010 at 7:35pm
Shaving, then chipping, then scraping is how most trad. aussie artifacts are made. Good point about going down the grain, some timbers like mango have crazy grain that make you change direction completely every couple of inches, tedious! but gives a good result.

I've taken to using a method between shaving and scraping, that's basically using a machete as a spokeshave, works well (and I can still count to 10, despite my best efforts).

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Feb 2nd, 2010 at 6:35am

Et Cetera wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 4:41pm:
I finally made some darts! They're not the best, made out of ole oak trim board. They're square, does that make a huge difference in how they fly?
I already destroyed the tape fletchings, sent them through some bushes and a pine tree.  :P :-/


It might make them bend a bit oddly since they are stronger across the diagonal than from face to face.

If you use two narrow strips of board at right angles to make a shallow V grooved trough you can plane down the corners to make it eight sided, then again to sixteen sides which is almost round. Scrape and sand to finish.

This is how archaic atlatl darts were often made in cold places where cane didnt grow, and is how traditional arrows are made now:

http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ajcd/archery/faq/arrwmake.html

 

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 11th, 2010 at 7:14pm
i've really been enjoying my Minotaur model thrower lately, so i wanted to make another one only larger to handle my longer and heavier ash darts. i chose birch as my material to keep the weight down and to make sure i could easily carve the raised spur. i think it came out okay. 24" long with a stain and paste wax finish.

Chris

















Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Feb 11th, 2010 at 9:35pm
very niceee. i like that one better than the one with bone "horns"  
you really show off your talent when it comes to making new grip designs :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Feb 12th, 2010 at 4:14pm

aztec wrote on Feb 11th, 2010 at 9:35pm:
you really show off your talent when it comes to making new grip designs :)

Agreed! Nice atlatl!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Hartung on Feb 15th, 2010 at 12:15am
Paleoarts, you indeed make some very nice stuff!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 15th, 2010 at 10:42am
thanks, guys  :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 15th, 2010 at 9:01pm
here's an updated version of my 'ice age hunter' model. 20" long, made of clear birch with an antler spur. still havn't decided whether or not to wrap the handle.

























Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Feb 15th, 2010 at 10:44pm
sweet! i  think it looks great as is  :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Feb 17th, 2010 at 8:21am

You could make one of those with a rib bone, exotic  wood for the handle and spur piece, a strip of rabbit fur along the back of rib as a silencer (thats where the noise will be coming from, betcha), handle wrapping, maybe some beads or feathers...

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:21am
that sounds like a custom order, David. shall i send you a bill?  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 17th, 2010 at 5:26pm
i decided to try and make a few improvements to my 'Dragonfly' atlatl. first, i shortened it to 20" in order to better handle my smaller darts. next, i opted for a peg spur in favor of a carved one so could increase the angle. and finally, i flattened and widened the shaft to cut down on noise. it's made of a combination of osage orange and bloodwood with bone finger pegs and spur. i'll take it out for testing tomorrow and let you know how she does. oh, and my girlfriend thinks i should change the name to 'Dodo' because it looks like that stupid bird toy that drinks from a glass. hmmph, women!

Chris






















Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Feb 18th, 2010 at 7:15pm
Nice atlatls! I really like the backgrounds or the pictures, they make the atlatls look even better.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 19th, 2010 at 10:00pm
i wanted to do something different, something i haven't seen before and this is what i came up with. this is what's known as a hammer grip atlatl. actually, this is the style of grip i used when i first started making atlatls, only then they were much cruder and the straps simply tied on. 20" long, made of osage orange and bloodwood. the retention strap is woven paracord and the spur is bone.

Chris























Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Feb 20th, 2010 at 7:16am
I like the name "Dodo", I bet it´s gonna stick... ;D.
By the way, with those finger pegs, do you hold the dart between index and middle finger?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 20th, 2010 at 11:51am
actually, Kugger, it's between the middle finger and the thumb. i think i have a pic of the grip in that post.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Feb 20th, 2010 at 1:00pm
Yeah, that´s what you get with a relatively slow connection, I i didn´t wait long enough, and didn´t notice the last two pics in the post. Am I right that you have to lift your middle finger slightly? -edit, don´t answer that,  after writing this post I saw that the 9th pic had loaded ;D-
I´m slowly working towards my first atllatl, allready carved a spur from ram´s horn, and I find this grip very attractive because of the straight flexing motion on the wrist, rather than in ulnar direction as with the hammer grip.
Kinda envy the apparent acces you have to nice kinds of wood, well at least I can make the finger pegs out of reindeer antler...

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 20th, 2010 at 1:59pm
haha! thanks, Kuggur. yeah, the place i get my wood has an awesome selection for pretty cheap and they are only a few miles from my house. you r atlatl sounds like it's gonna be great. my only suggestion is that you make several styles and test them all with different size darts and different materials before you settle on one. i've been doing this for a long time and i'm still learning what works and what doesn't. every time i think i've settled on the type of thrower i'm going to use, i discover something new. i think that's half the fun of this hobby!  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 8:18pm
i was messing  around with  amazon style's and came up with this one, kind of a mayan and amazon hybrid

its 21" and made from mahogany.


amazon_style_1.png (2078 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 6:43am
I bow before the master!

Sheesh Paleoarts, I'm lucky if I can get one done in a month! And yours look awesome! I love the ice age hunter. (and that rib bone idea, I know it wasn't yours, but when I visit my parents and ride with my dad, I occasionally come across a dead cow or two . . . )

You're an inspiration, what else can I say?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 7:40am
Aztec, I like the doughnut ringy thingy on you atlatl!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 9:36am
kjev, thank you much.  :)

aztec, that thrower is gorgeous! the mahogany is beautiful and your carving top notch. :o

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 3:17pm
thanks!  i really like mahogany,  ill probly use it a lot in the future for different stuff.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Feb 28th, 2010 at 7:54pm
24" long, made of cocobolo with antler finger pegs.











Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Feb 28th, 2010 at 9:56pm
another awesome thrower. :)  cocobola is some beautiful stuff

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Mar 1st, 2010 at 7:12pm
thanks, dude  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Mar 1st, 2010 at 7:16pm
here's a new Alaskan thrower. clear birch with zicote handle laminates. 20" overall.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Mar 2nd, 2010 at 7:39am
Nice! I like the shiny red one.
I just made one from PVC pipe and an oak dowel, going to try it out soon, and I'll post pictures.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Mar 16th, 2010 at 12:48am
I'd love to see pictures of your PVC version, Et Cetera. I still don't have my most recent attempt anywhere near photograph-ready :-[.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by NECURS on Mar 16th, 2010 at 1:13am
Real Nice selection of Atlatl's, I really like the Alaskan thrower. clear birch with zicote handle laminates. 20" overall. "It's Beautiful" !

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Mar 18th, 2010 at 1:39am
heres a mayan inspired one i finished today, its 22" and made from mahogany :)


mayan_atlatl.png (1752 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Mar 18th, 2010 at 1:42am
...
mayan_atlatl_handle.png (1663 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Mar 18th, 2010 at 1:43am
...
mayan_atlatl_spur.png (1324 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by NECURS on Mar 18th, 2010 at 9:30pm
I like the style of your Mayan Atlatl, You did an Excellent job on that one Aztec, Thank's for sharing all the picture's,

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Mar 19th, 2010 at 7:37am
What kind of feathers are those?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Mar 19th, 2010 at 8:13pm
thanks guys , i appreciate the kind words.

the spotted feathers are guinea and the other fluffy ones are  chicken. :)


i finished  this amazon style today.
its 22" and made from mahogany.  the spur is lashed on with gut.
and the inlays are made from a type of gem called malachite.

new_amazon_atlatl_1.png (1482 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Mar 19th, 2010 at 8:15pm
...
new_amazon_atlatl_2.png (1571 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Mar 19th, 2010 at 8:17pm
...
amazon_atlatl__lashed_spur.png (1265 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Eric Canel on Mar 24th, 2010 at 7:22pm
wow i think this is the most succesful post on this forum

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Mar 31st, 2010 at 7:09pm
Well finally got around to making one too, not entirely finished, gotta sand it and put a linseed oil finish on it. Humble beginnings, it´s shaped from a broken broomstick, the spur is cool though; raindeer antler.
Pics will follow when I finally get around to getting a photo bucket account or something similar.
I´ll probably opt for a fingerloop to begin with, less "invasive" than spurs, can try that on the next one (or this one if it turns out I don´+t like the loops).
Making the atlatl was pretty easy (at least my simple one...), the hard part is still to come, making a good dart....

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 1st, 2010 at 12:03am
fantastic, Aztec! ;)

looking forward to those pics, kuggur.

here's my latest, another post modern 'Alaskan'. march was a crazy month, so much going on, and it was nice to get back in the shop and start making stuff again. 22" long, made of goncalo alves with clear birch for the handle laminates and an antler spur.







Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on Apr 1st, 2010 at 6:01am

Paleoarts wrote on Apr 1st, 2010 at 12:03am:
looking forward to those pics, kuggur.


Thanks, but it might be somewhat of an anticlimax after your newest pics.... ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 1st, 2010 at 10:20pm
i think youve really struck gold with your new alaskan designs  8-)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 5:25pm
On the last picture the grain makes it look like it's burning...

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 3rd, 2010 at 6:55pm
here's todays effort. i'm calling this one the 'Islander'. 25" long, made of red palm with cocobolo handle, hand twisted raffia cordage, and antler spur.







Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Conteruse on Apr 3rd, 2010 at 7:58pm
Woah nice! ;D Paleoarts if there is someone out there who can at least try to as good as you at making implements of mass destruction I dare them to. :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 3rd, 2010 at 8:03pm
;D haha, thanks man.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Cthulhu on Apr 3rd, 2010 at 10:54pm
This is my first... I made a recurved bow a few weeks back, and i tried stringing it today ( id been busy) and it snapped a few inches down from the handle, so i made it into an atlatl ( bit of a downgrade  ;D).  I haven't gotten around to making a spear for it, but do you think the spur/catch for the spear is too large? How long should the spear be?
Image.jpg (145 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Apr 3rd, 2010 at 11:11pm
The darts should be 5-6 feet about I think. Also, I think the spur could be a bit more of a point, because the back of the dart has a little "pit" that the spur goes into a bit. I'm no expert though, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 4th, 2010 at 11:36am
no, you pretty much got that right, EC. dart anywhere from 5' and 8' at around 3/8" to 5/8" diameter. the important thing is that it be flexible enough. the spur should be small enough that it can pivot freely within the knock upon casting.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 4th, 2010 at 11:39am
here's the latest. 25" long, made of 'pao ferro' with 'padouk' handle laminates and antler fingerhook and spur.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 4th, 2010 at 4:11pm
i like the colors on this one alot.  the padouk reminds me of salmon  ;D

 maybe an alaskan style made from birch with padouk handles? i think it would look cool

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 6th, 2010 at 10:50pm
thanks, Aztec  :)

here's a new basket maker i did today. i used your mohagany! the handle laminate is kingwood, the loops deerhide, and the wraps sinew. 23 1/2'' long.








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 7th, 2010 at 5:48pm
and another European style thrower i did this afternoon.

a bowyer buddy of mine gave me a piece of vine maple recently. aside from knowing it's an extremely tough wood, i really didn't know much about it. at first i thought it was kind of boring, especially after working with so many exotic hardwoods, but once i got down into it i found it has a beautifully subtle grain that lent itself nicely to this style of atlatl (even if it doesn't come across in the pics). i'm calling this one 'Tusk'. 25'' long, with a carved reindeer antler spur secured with glue and sinew and a deerhide handle wrap.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by David Morningstar on Apr 7th, 2010 at 5:59pm

That Magdalanian is very good, but if it had a V-splice joint instead it would be perfect....

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 7th, 2010 at 6:23pm
thats a good days work ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 7th, 2010 at 7:32pm
thanks, guys.

yeah, David, i know. but i'm a lazy, lazy man!  :P

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 7th, 2010 at 10:44pm
i started on a basketmaker from that piece of purple heart you gave me.  

is the weight really needed? :o
it may be a stupid question, but i dont know anything about weights

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 8th, 2010 at 6:24pm
it depends on how light you make it. the dominant theory concerning weights on BM's is this. #1 they act as a counter balance for stone tipped darts and #2 they provide resistance mass for your muscles on an otherwise extremely light thrower. i personally think both are correct but, whether you buy that or not, they just look cool  :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 8th, 2010 at 6:28pm
a new 'Egyptian' model

23'' long. made of purple heart and osage orange.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 9th, 2010 at 1:51am
thanks, i guess theres no reason not to have a weight :P


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Apr 9th, 2010 at 7:58am
I like the purply wood!

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 9th, 2010 at 8:27pm
my first basketmaker  :)

its 23" long and made from purple heart with an added piece of osage for the handle.






Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by paleoarts on Apr 9th, 2010 at 9:19pm
gorgeous! :D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Apr 9th, 2010 at 10:42pm
Wow! Where do you guys get this purple wood?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 9th, 2010 at 10:49pm
from purple trees...  ;D sorry i couldnt resist  

i got that piece in a trade with paleoarts.  but you can order it online or get it from exotic lumber stores

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 13th, 2010 at 3:35pm
here's a new 'Minotaur' model. 23 1/2'' long. made of quilted bubinga and cocobolo for the handle laminates. the finger pegs are whitetail deer antler.









Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Fundibularius on Apr 13th, 2010 at 5:49pm
Very impressive atlatl again, paleo!

And a name that suits well.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 13th, 2010 at 5:54pm
thank you, sir  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Apr 13th, 2010 at 9:59pm
Do you ever get poked by those horn things?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by walter on Apr 16th, 2010 at 7:31pm
I cut this small juniper limb about six months ago intending to make a Basket Maker type atlatl and finally built up the courage to start carving. Found the spur without tooo much trouble. It's not flat, but at about a 30 degree angle. Handle was cake and doesn't need any kind of straps. It's 20.5" long, about an inch wide and a quarter inch thick at the thinnest spot. Weighs exactly 3 oz.

Now, I just have the hard part to do. Going to make at least one dart from a dowel and then try my hand at making some up from wild shoots.

http://img6.glowfoto.com/images/2010/04/16-1606505506M.jpghttp://img6.glowfoto.com/images/2010/04/16-1606515637M.jpg  Juniper Basket Maker Spur and Handle

walter

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 16th, 2010 at 10:25pm
very nice, Walter! great colors in that wood and i like your spur a lot. are you intending to use that hammer grip style or split finger? if it's the latter, you'll need some kind of loops. don't cheat yourself on the darts. they are the key to the system and it's in your best interest to make them as well as you can. scarf jointed dowels are probably the easiest way to go and make great darts but i say play around and try as many materials as you can.  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by walter on Apr 16th, 2010 at 10:51pm
Thanks Chris! I've tried it out split finger and don't have any trouble hanging on to it. Made a scarf joined dowel dart. Going to make another! Was wondering what you would recommend for a target tip?

walter

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 17th, 2010 at 12:13am
the best are simple glue on steel field points available from any archery supply store or website. other alternatives are spent rifle shells or end caps for copper piping.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Cervantes on Apr 19th, 2010 at 10:40pm
OK, since I won't be able to buy a ready made atlatl are there any generalized plans for making one in this forum? I have a rough idea from seeing the pics, but I would like some basic design constants to make a really nice spear chucker.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Cervantes on Apr 19th, 2010 at 10:42pm
OK, silly question..could a decent trail version be constructed from a palm tree frond?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 20th, 2010 at 12:43am
cervantes, absolutely. i've seen several made from palm fronds. check this site out for plans....http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/designs/index.htm

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Apr 20th, 2010 at 7:29am
Nice site! I bookmarked it for further reference.  :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by walter on Apr 23rd, 2010 at 12:36pm
Decided to braid up a finger loop and sure nough, it gave me more control. Now, the atlatl feels like an extension of my arm and I don't have to think about hanging on to it when I throw. LOL, I don't think I could shake the thing off ;D

Finger loop is made with 10 strands of jute.

walter

http://img4.glowfoto.com/images/2010/04/23-1044549549M.jpg Woven jute finger loop; 10 strands; 5 strand flat braid and 5 strand flat braided split.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 23rd, 2010 at 5:04pm
looks great, Walter  :D.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 24th, 2010 at 10:22am
this was a custom job for a friend over on paleoplanet. it's made from a failed bow limb that he sent me. osage orange with a bamboo backing and a third wood inbetween that i have yet to identify, possibly muhama or black palm. the curve is extreme but the flexibility of the limb makes it work out. the finger pegs and spur are deer antler.








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 24th, 2010 at 2:53pm
looks cool  man!

i really like the idea of using  bamboo that way .
actually, here i have easier access to the big bamboo than small ones for darts and arrows

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 24th, 2010 at 7:04pm
thanks, man  :)  yeah, bamboo is pretty popular with the bow making set as a backer. you do need some fairly big stuff, though.

here's my latest. another 'Ice Age Hunter' model. a solid piece of clear birch with deer hide lace grip and antler spur. 23'' long total.








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 24th, 2010 at 8:44pm
i wonder how big a section of it youd need to get a flat strip out thats wide enough for a basket maker :-?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 24th, 2010 at 8:48pm
probably not that big. maybe two or three inches in diameter as long as the wall thickness is fairly good. i think you can steam bend it flat also.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 24th, 2010 at 8:53pm
i might have to try that .i can get some 3-4 inchs thick. and i didnt know you could steam them flat

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 27th, 2010 at 2:27pm
the latest Alaskan. clear birch with mexicam mahogany handle laminates and an antler spur. 23'' overall.










Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on Apr 27th, 2010 at 5:49pm
looks awesome  ;D i like how you left the chisel marks

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 28th, 2010 at 10:48am
thanks  :)

here's the whole group for the month of April.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Rockman on Apr 28th, 2010 at 10:54am
As always, your works inpires the rest of us Paleo. I guess the big seller of your primitive arsenal is the Atlatl. Myself, I´d get stuffed with those knifes you make (smaller, more compact).

Keep posting your awesome pieces.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by LukeWebb on Apr 28th, 2010 at 1:26pm
 If you don't mind paleoarts, can I ask if you make your living off of the things you are making?  They seem so good that I assume that you do?
 I tried some atlatls a while back, but I kind of gave up on it as I could not get any wood to make darts that was long and straight enough, the best I could get was about 4 ft, and they wobbled like crazy when you threw them which I would attribute to the length I think.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 28th, 2010 at 5:48pm
thanks, Rockman  :D yeah, the atlatls are my speciality, but all the other stuff (knives, spears, axes, slings, etc...) make up around 50% or more of my sales.

Luke, yes, i'm trying :P  don't give up, man! take two of those 4' pieces you were using and scarf joint them together, trim them to 6-7', and you'll be amazed at how well they fly.

Chris

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on Apr 30th, 2010 at 11:09pm
Paleo,

What would you sell one of your Ice Age Hunters for? I really like the one with the Japanese-style braiding on the handle.

And how do you make them so fast? Do you ever eat or sleep?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by walter on May 1st, 2010 at 12:53am

Kjev wrote on Apr 30th, 2010 at 11:09pm:
Paleo,

What would you sell one of your Ice Age Hunters for? I really like the one with the Japanese-style braiding on the handle.

And how do you make them so fast? Do you ever eat or sleep?


LOL ;D Was wondering the same thing myself

walter

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by BrianGrubbs on May 4th, 2010 at 7:34am
 Here's my first atempt, made from a single piece of bamboo.  The spur is a whitetail deer antler, tied on with rawhide that I cut from a dog chew toy.



 I made the handle for the split finger grip, which I discovered that I liked at the last native american festival that I went to.  It's just two pieces of leather lashed on with yet more dog toy rawhide.



 Here's a couple of shots down the handle.





 It was really easy to make, I just made an angled cut through the bamboo up by where the handle ends, and then split it from the other end down to my cut.  Not the most polished piece of work I've ever done, but we'll see today how it performs.  I think if I did one like this again that it wouldn't be very difficult to just make the spur from the bamboo node at the end, asuming that your node is so conveniently placed at the length that you want.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on May 4th, 2010 at 10:41am
awesome, Brian! bamboo is a great material for atlatls. light, strong, and easy to work. i've seen your design before. Larry (megalithics) won a competition several years ago with one. he broke his regular atlatl during practice and whipped out a quicky using his pocket knife and a piece of boo he had, only instead of a tied on spur he just cut one in near a node. :P

here's a new design i stole from a fellow paleoplanet member (thanks, canuckcamper!). super simple, but extremely ergonomic and effective. 22'' long, made from a single piece of clear sycamore with deerhide lace and an antler bead. i absolutely love sycamore! it has all the properties of birch (light, strong, flexible, easy to work) with the addition of a gorgeous pixelated grain that has to be seen up close to really be appreciated.










Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on May 4th, 2010 at 2:17pm
nice work guys  ;D


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Eoraptor on May 4th, 2010 at 4:52pm

Paleoarts wrote on May 4th, 2010 at 10:41am:
i absolutely love sycamore! it has all the properties of birch (light, strong, flexible, easy to work) with the addition of a gorgeous pixelated grain that has to be seen up close to really be appreciated.


:o  Is that so?!?!?  I have always dismissed it as "trash wood" because the branches grow all crooked and the trees fall down all the time... not very sound reasoning in hindsight.  Good wood, though, you say?  Is it only the solid wood from the trunk or can you use the branches too?  

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on May 4th, 2010 at 5:12pm
not sure about that, Eoraptor :-?  i buy mine already milled, and i think there are several different species, but my motto is 'give it a try and see what happens'  ;D

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Eoraptor on May 4th, 2010 at 5:59pm
I just gathered some, so we'll soon see...

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Cervantes on May 7th, 2010 at 5:20pm
Well I planned to make my first atlatl long ago (two weeks ago). Kids and wife keep distracting me, darn kids and wife..can;t they see I'm trying to make something here>?!?! Anyhow, will try again. I have a white wax wood staff, 6' and about 3" in diameter. I'll chop it and see what I can come up with before Monday.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on May 8th, 2010 at 6:24pm
Well, mine is about done, bit of a strange combination,  rest of a broken broomstick, and (pretty cool if I say so myself) raindeer antler spur.
Was in a hardware store a week ago, and scored 1.5 meter long garden cane, 4pieces, so a dart should follow pretty soon. But that won´t be till after lambing time, we´re in the middle of it, great fun but little sleep, and no spare time...

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by wolf197 on May 10th, 2010 at 4:17am
Heres one I've admired for a number of years now, just never knew what it was (I think it is one...)

I don't know how to post multipul pictures so I'll do three posts. sorry. And sorry for the cell phone pictures, all I have.


The Atlatl:
GetAttachment1.jpg (7 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by wolf197 on May 10th, 2010 at 4:18am
The dart tip:
GetAttachment2.jpg (7 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by wolf197 on May 10th, 2010 at 4:20am
The whole case:
GetAttachment3_001.jpg (7 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on May 10th, 2010 at 9:48am
That dart looks like a harpoon, is that atlatl & dart combo from the arctic region?

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on May 10th, 2010 at 9:58am
that is absolutely a northern throwing board! and a gorgeous one at that. thanks for posting, Wolf.  :)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by wolf197 on May 10th, 2010 at 12:13pm
Yes the dart is indeed a harpoon with a detatchabul head. I did not know what to call it, I thought it was an atlatl so I called it a dart, even though it is short and made of a hard wood (no flex). I also forgot to mention that this is at Alaska Native Medical center. My bad.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on May 22nd, 2010 at 8:33pm
my dad and i usually go on a few canoe trips every summer, so i wanted a short and simple thrower that would be better for fishing

its 14"  and made of red ceder, with a oak spur
throwing_board.png (1838 KB | )

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by kuggur slingdog on May 23rd, 2010 at 12:36pm
Pretty nice, and advanced for a "short and simple" one, ;).

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on May 24th, 2010 at 9:31am
gorgeous, aztec! ;)  i really like the cedar, and your design looks perfect for a backpacker. well done.

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on May 24th, 2010 at 4:16pm
thanks  ;D


Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on May 27th, 2010 at 1:58pm
i needed to make several throwers for the upcoming shark hunt and wanted a design that was simple, easy to use, and provided a good grip under wet conditions but still able to be put down in a hurry. i went back to one of my earliest designs, a plain hammer grip with a hand strap. this is the thrower (more or less) that i achieved my longest cast with (122yds). i'm calling it my 'Sport' model. it's made of birch and on the long side (25'') to accomodate the extra long shark darts. also, the staright forward stick design helps prevent any tangling of lines and the grip and strap are a synthetic paracord that are laced through holes in the handle to ensure non-slipage. i have high hopes for this one!

Chris










Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by aztec on May 27th, 2010 at 3:44pm
watch out sharks  ;)

Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Kjev on May 29th, 2010 at 8:37am
The shots are kind of poor (I thought I had pictures of the atlatl by itself, but I can't find them), but here's my friend with the thrower and dart I made for him earlier this year. I tried two-tone fletching on the dart. Not sure how well it turned out, but it was my first attempt. The atlatl is 18-inch ash, with an elm hook lashed on, and a cheater (bolt) weighing in the handle end. The banner is a piece of suede from an old coat, and the braided knot (which you can barely see) is flattened 550 parachute cord.

I learned from this one that the balance of the dart is absolutely critical. This dart ended up balanced more towards the center (it's a 5-foot hardwood dowell, with a steel point, by the way). Throws kind of poor for a dart, but pretty well as a spear.




Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 2nd, 2010 at 8:40pm
a new style, sort of....

sort of a mix between my 'Minotaur', a Basket Maker, and an Aztec. i tried to incorporate all the aspects that i like from each into one thrower. light, strong, flexible, with a no-slip split finger paddle grip and a slight curve to the shaft. ideally i would have liked a carved spur and dart channel, but i wanted this one extra thin so i had to opt for the antler spur. 22'' long, made of birch with mahogany handle.

Chris








Title: Re: let's see your atlatls
Post by Et Cetera on Jun 3rd, 2010 at 5:41pm
Nice!  :)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jun 5th, 2010 at 4:16pm
heres one i got finished last night.
its 19" long and made from paduak . the bone spur is lashed on with cotton twine and covered  with  hide glue





Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Et Cetera on Jun 6th, 2010 at 8:47pm
I like the red wood, I seem to like red wood for some reason.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 10th, 2010 at 7:14pm
love that spur, aztec!  :D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 10th, 2010 at 7:18pm
here's one i made for the A.I.T.H. over on paleoplanet. it's a solid piece of pacific yew and, like a lot of atlatls, started life out as a failed bow stave. the finger peg is antler. i'm rather proud of this one  :)









Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jun 11th, 2010 at 1:05am
very nice. i hate asking about your techniques (i feel like im stealing  ;D) but how do you get those carved spurs so clean? im starting to prefer the carved ones more than bone, but i can never get them anywhere near that


you got indygoman i think? has he gotten it yet?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 11th, 2010 at 1:25pm
thanks, aztec. no, i'm just sending it out today. that's why i didn't post it over on the planet. didn't want ruin the surprise!  ;) for the spurs i carve as neatly as possible with my carving tools and then hand sand. to get into the grooves directly under the spur i wrap a little sand paper around a twig or stick (something flexible).

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jun 11th, 2010 at 6:42pm
im sure he'll be thrilled when he gets it  ;D

thanks. i have a real nice carving set but its the sanding that always gets me. ill have to try it like you said  

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 14th, 2010 at 6:06pm
here's a set of hunting foreshafts i made for a customer, two large game and two small game. the stone points are dacite and the antler caribou, all set with PPG and sinew on 12''x1/2'' ash shafts.



Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jun 14th, 2010 at 6:54pm
nice! im gonna have to get some antler and made a couple like that :)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 16th, 2010 at 5:13pm
calling this one the 'Copperhead'. made of African padouk with a whitetail antler spur.







Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 18th, 2010 at 11:15am
26'' overall. made of mahogany and whitetail antler.










Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jun 18th, 2010 at 5:41pm
sometimes it seems like we're the only 2 atlatl junkies on here  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 18th, 2010 at 5:43pm
i hear ya!  ;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 18th, 2010 at 6:25pm
in that case, Aztec, here's another one for you! a 'Tom Mills' style woomera. 24'' overall, made of clear birch.










Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jun 18th, 2010 at 6:39pm
yay   8-) just for me lol

that one looks sweet!


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 5:51pm
heres an amazon style thrower. its 22 inchs long and made from zebra wood

these styles are my personal favorite. it seems like i do the best with them




Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Conteruse on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 6:15pm
Nice!  8-) Man I wish I could get some of you and Paleo's talent in making these ancient spear chuckers!  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 7:50pm
aztec, that's beautiful ;)

conteruse, thanks man  :D

here's an all 'primitive' dart i just made..

made of all natural materials using nothing but stone tools. the mainshaft is a 6' piece of willow i harvested last winter. the foreshaft is fire hardened ash. the fletchings (two vaned) are dyed turkey secured with deer sinew. the point is dacite knapped with antler and hafted with PPG and sinew. 6' 11'' overall and spining out at a perfect 7lbs.

Chris








Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Mordechaj on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 2:26am
I hope you did not smoke all that making this one dart. :P

Other than that - it's beautiful!
Do you charge extra for "true primitive" stuff (like they charge for organic food)?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Mederic on Jun 24th, 2010 at 2:05pm
Never tried the atlatls but you guys here got me interested with all your beautifull craftmanshift! May have to look into itnow!!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 24th, 2010 at 2:07pm
you should definitely give it a try, Mederic! come see me at www.paleoarts.net   ;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Mederic on Jun 24th, 2010 at 2:26pm

Paleoarts wrote on Jun 24th, 2010 at 2:07pm:
you should definitely give it a try, Mederic! come see me at www.paleoarts.net   ;)


Just checked it out! OMG beautifull work Paleo! I'll have to see if i can try and make one cause i know i wouldnt be able to afford those.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Mordechaj on Jun 26th, 2010 at 4:14am
to repost my work from paleoplanet:



I have material for ~ 8 more darts of varying thickness and taper, all I lack is time...

Now I present you my "Frankenstein models"





















and a more regular model (on which I'm proud of the S finger curve - fits my hand nicely and is (in theory) for similar type of flick casting as basketmakers, but I haven't used one so far so I can't really tell...)








Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jun 26th, 2010 at 9:23am
:D i love them! who says they have to be pretty, right? i think number two is my favorite. i love the curvature and the tied on spur. well done, Mordechaj.  ;)

Chris

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Conteruse on Jul 2nd, 2010 at 2:07pm
Last week I went for a walk in the woods and found a cedar tree. At the time I had been wondering how hard would it be to make an atlatl with stone age technology. So I ran to the house and grab my stone age axe (an oak club with a basalt block in it) and cut it down and after a week of widling, twidling, and a coulpe of cuts I had a couple of projects finished from just that one tree. So I wanted to know how well my stone age atlatl came out, so to anyone with any insight, suggestions, or even trolling on my spear chucker Id love to hear it! Here is some pics and please tell me wat you think:

Picture_002_800x600.jpg (88 KB | )

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Conteruse on Jul 2nd, 2010 at 2:13pm
And Another:
Picture_003_800x600.jpg (79 KB | )

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Conteruse on Jul 2nd, 2010 at 2:13pm
And Yet another angle:
Picture_004_800x600.jpg (83 KB | )

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 3rd, 2010 at 3:12pm
it's hard to make out detail from your pics, Conteruse, especially the spur but from what i can see it looks pretty sweet.  ;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 8th, 2010 at 3:52pm
the 'Stinger'. 25'' overall, vine maple, caribou antler.  8-)








Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Rockman on Jul 8th, 2010 at 5:42pm
It's cool that in the USA, you can find large mammals that give you antlers and various stuff to make beautifull crafts like this one.

Your atlats are always inspiring. Aztec too, keep showing your masterpieces

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by CherokeeKC on Jul 9th, 2010 at 9:38am
awesome atlatl chris.  i love the look of the protruding rings around the maple.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by colejack3 on Jul 9th, 2010 at 10:37am
cool atlatl!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by colejack3 on Jul 9th, 2010 at 10:47am
                         this is the only pic I have of the aaskan thrower. Its one of my favorites to use. Still need to sand it a little bit more theres some tool marks

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by colejack3 on Jul 9th, 2010 at 10:47am
wish I had a better pic  :(

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Conteruse on Jul 9th, 2010 at 11:07am
To Paleo: that thing looks wicked! I love it! Keep the beautiful work coming!
And to Colejack: Looks pretty sweet even without a better resolution!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by colejack3 on Jul 9th, 2010 at 11:09am
Ya I know I need a better camera. Can someone tell me a good camera thats has a low price?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Conteruse on Jul 9th, 2010 at 11:12am
The Kodak EasyShares aren't that bad in price and take a great picture. Just as long as you have it set right. Ex. of wrong settings my pictures at the top of this page.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jul 9th, 2010 at 5:27pm
nice stuff guys!

Chris, the more i look at that one, the more it gives me that alien/bug mutant feeling   ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 9th, 2010 at 6:23pm
yeah, i think the word for it might be 'malevolent'  ;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jul 10th, 2010 at 5:16pm
i preformed some cosmetic surgery on this thrower.

i think it looks better now ;D
small_basket_maker.png (1883 KB | )

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Cthulhu on Jul 11th, 2010 at 12:03am
is that rattlesnake skin on that?

better not let my herpetology-obsessed friend see it, he'd hate you for life for that one  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jul 11th, 2010 at 12:15am
lol its a copper head skin  :)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by David Morningstar on Jul 11th, 2010 at 8:31am

colejack3 wrote on Jul 9th, 2010 at 11:09am:
Ya I know I need a better camera. Can someone tell me a good camera thats has a low price?


Cameraphones like your Samsung can give good results but they need lots of light because they only have a tiny lens. Try taking a picture outdoors in bright sunlight with the sun somewhere behind one of your shoulders so your shadow is off to one side out of shot.

Clean the lens with a fresh tissue, hold the camera as still as possible for two seconds after taking the shot (the actual picture is sometimes taken a little after the shutter sound due to software slowness) and take a series of pictures with slightly different framing and distances, then choose the best one on your PC.

 

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 15th, 2010 at 3:45pm
i did this one for a customer of mine. 27'' overall, made of pacific yew and whitetail antler.









Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by xxkid123 on Jul 15th, 2010 at 4:11pm
is the pacific yew on the handle naturally a mix of white and yellow? or did you finish it differently/add in a piece of antler?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by colejack3 on Jul 15th, 2010 at 4:15pm
cool pacific yew. I like the heartwood sapwood combo

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Morphy on Jul 16th, 2010 at 3:02am
Yew is such a pretty wood. That is beautiful work like always Paleo.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 20th, 2010 at 11:08am
thanks, guys. yeah, Kid, that's the natural sapwood.

here's another similar one. clear birch with mahogany handle laminates and a deer antler spur. 23'' overall.










Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Eoraptor on Jul 20th, 2010 at 12:01pm
Great, as always paleoarts.  Simple, to the point.  The pacific yew is amazing, love the colors

aztec, I'm usually not one who likes snakeskin, but that looks really nice.  Perhaps because it is copperhead and not as cliché as rattlesnake, perhaps because the color is similar to the wood?  Perhaps I just like those colors... don't know.  Whatever reason, its a beautiful atlatl  :)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jul 21st, 2010 at 4:50pm

Eoraptor wrote on Jul 20th, 2010 at 12:01pm:
Great, as always paleoarts.  Simple, to the point.  The pacific yew is amazing, love the colors

aztec, I'm usually not one who likes snakeskin, but that looks really nice.  Perhaps because it is copperhead and not as cliché as rattlesnake, perhaps because the color is similar to the wood?  Perhaps I just like those colors... don't know.  Whatever reason, its a beautiful atlatl  :)



thanks  ;D i usually dont like the snake look either. but i had a small piece laying around so i gave it a try. i think it came out pretty well

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Morphy on Jul 21st, 2010 at 8:37pm
Cooperhead is one of the most beautiful skins around for bows or (apparently) atlatls. It looks really nice Aztec.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 9:34am
a simple hammer grip. 24'' overall with bocote handle laminates, antler spur, and deerhide thong.








Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by colejack3 on Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:34am
Thats awsome :o

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 23rd, 2010 at 8:59am
thanks, dude. here's another similar one. 24'' birch and cocobolo with antler spur.







Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by colejack3 on Jul 23rd, 2010 at 11:49am
Man your on a atlatl making spree!  ;D Sweet looking atlatl. did you decide you like the hammer grip?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 23rd, 2010 at 5:08pm
no, Cole, but as a seller of atlatls i have to have several representations of every style on hand for people to choose from. the hammer grip seems to be the easiest for beginers to grasp, so....  . besides, it's fun to make different types of throwers  ;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 23rd, 2010 at 5:12pm
and to prove i'm not all about hammer grips, here's my latest Alaskan. birch with bocote handle and mule deer spur and finger peg. 22'' long.







Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jul 23rd, 2010 at 6:37pm
i really dig that one  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 29th, 2010 at 9:34am
here's an atlatl i designed specifically for fishing. 18'' long with a dart channel the entire length of the thrower. made to cast fletchless darts short ranges with extreme accuracy. clear birch with mountain mahogany spur.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jul 29th, 2010 at 11:29pm
nice one man!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Aug 4th, 2010 at 1:47pm
my girlfriend Carey practicing at 20 meters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yLR9iIzQl4

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Aug 18th, 2010 at 1:22pm
this past weekend at Pasadena i had the pleasure of throwing with several of Tom Mills' awesome atlatls. i became infatuated with one in particular, a beautifully carved center hole model made of mahogany. it fit my hand perfectly and i was throwing some of my most accurate darts in a long time with it and was planning to use it in the ISAC, but alas the finger hole was a little small for the giant sausages i have in place of digits and i developed a blister, so i had to switch back to one of my own. i'm blaming my pathetic score of 69 on that! anyway, when i got home i just had to make my own version....

22'' overall, red stained birch with deer hide lace and antler spur. my roommates, upon seeing it, instantly dubbed it the "kitchen spoon". not quite sure how i feel about that.

Chris








Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Maddhatter3 on Aug 18th, 2010 at 4:23pm
[quote author=Paleoarts link=1247874616/570#572 date=1279919577]and to prove i'm not all about hammer grips, here's my latest Alaskan. birch with bocote handle and mule deer spur and finger peg. 22'' long.

Wow.  Just wow.  That looks awesome!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Aug 18th, 2010 at 4:50pm
hey! thats one of the coolest throwers ive seen in a while  ;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Aug 18th, 2010 at 5:40pm
thanks guys :)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 18th, 2010 at 7:13pm

Paleoarts wrote on Aug 18th, 2010 at 5:40pm:
thanks guys :)


does that thing vibrate when you swing it? it looks like it would since it's so flat

i mean vibrate as in the paddle part rocks back and forth a bit since the air is blowing up against it.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by colejack3 on Aug 18th, 2010 at 7:16pm
Its like a amazon/woomera hybrid!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Aug 18th, 2010 at 7:41pm
good eye, Cole  ;)

Kid, no.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Aug 18th, 2010 at 7:44pm
here's another. the 'Feather'. 21.5'' overall, made of African kingwood.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 18th, 2010 at 8:07pm
ooh pretty, i like this one especially. nicely carved design. the name of wood pretty much sums it up too.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Sep 1st, 2010 at 6:51pm
i recieved three gorgeous Basketmaker atlatls from my friend Huey in the mail last week and they inspired me to make one of my own. yew with rawhide and sinew loops. 24'' overall.

[IMG]http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz119/paleoarts/atlatls/100_3956640x480.jpg

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Sep 1st, 2010 at 7:37pm
your best basketmaker to date IMO  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Sep 17th, 2010 at 10:56am

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Sep 17th, 2010 at 8:24pm
awesome work man  :)


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Maddhatter3 on Sep 19th, 2010 at 4:04am
As always great looking work!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Sep 21st, 2010 at 11:48am
thanks, fellas  :)

here's a couple of new hammer grips...


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Jaegoor on Sep 22nd, 2010 at 5:14pm
:D Engen 2010
atlatl_junior.jpg (33 KB | )

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Sep 24th, 2010 at 5:21pm
this weeks atlatls

not bad considering i spent Monday and Tuesday making darts. all have birch for the main shafts except the Alaskan which is goncalo alves, what i consider to be one the most gorgeous woods on earth. the semi-Egyptian style thrower is a new design of mine. i wanted a light paddle grip that could be used by either right or left handers. it's used by placing the index finger above the main grip much like the Alaskans. the shaft above the handle is slim enough that it can even be used with a split finger style. with the addition of the dart channel this makes it a very fast and efficient thrower despite the deceptively simple design.

Chris


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Sep 24th, 2010 at 10:22pm
those look great!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Jaegoor on Sep 25th, 2010 at 11:26am
If I like very well yours atlatl. I möcht also one. Do not know, however, at all what for me the best would be.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Sep 25th, 2010 at 12:13pm
thanks, guys.

Jaegoor, you can never go wrong with a simple hammer grip. this is the style that most of us start with and just about everyone can use efficiently.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Jaegoor on Sep 25th, 2010 at 12:44pm
thanks, guys.

I already have an idea.
At home I look whether I enough material has.
Only as long as shafts I do not have. Everything is different no problem

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Sep 27th, 2010 at 5:53pm
i made myself a new thrower today..22" and made of mahogany




Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Sep 27th, 2010 at 7:03pm
love it!  :D looks well balanced and a great finish.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Sep 27th, 2010 at 8:28pm
thanks dude  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Sep 30th, 2010 at 3:24pm
Ozark Bluff Dweller. birch and caribou antler.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Kjev on Oct 11th, 2010 at 12:35am
Paleoarts, I have to ask,

Granted, you are master at making atlatls, but how do you do them so fast? Do you cut blanks out with power tools or something? Do you use patterns? And I'm really digging on your ice age hunter, by the way.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Oct 11th, 2010 at 1:39pm
lol! thanks, man. glad you like it. i could tell you how i get them done so quick, but then i'd have to kill you and i really can't afford the plane ticket right now.  ;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Oct 28th, 2010 at 10:51am

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Oct 29th, 2010 at 8:23pm
great throwers man!  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Nov 10th, 2010 at 8:52pm
hammer grip with charm/weight.




and a paddle grip with weight and single finger loop.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Nov 10th, 2010 at 9:26pm
lookin good!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Morphy on Nov 10th, 2010 at 9:56pm
Wow those are sexy. The ones with the exaggerated curves remind me of composite bows for some reason. Which throws the best? Do the curvy ones throw differently/better?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Nov 10th, 2010 at 10:04pm
thanks, Morphy  ;)   you know, it all depends on the individual. what works for me may not work as well for you. some people are hammer grip, some paddle, some split finger, etc.  the curved guys are my 'ice age hunter' models. everyone who's tried them says they work awesome, but personally i find them a tad awkward (i'm a split-finger man). they do have the distinction of being absolutely silent, though, making them excellent for hunting skittish game. the curvature keeps the fletching off the main shaft of the atlatl so the only sound your prey will hear is its own scream!  ::)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Morphy on Nov 10th, 2010 at 10:34pm
I didn't see any prices on your website Paleo. About how much would one of those hammer grips go for? Also how long do the darts have to be for good flight? Are 4.5 foot darts too short?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Nov 10th, 2010 at 11:20pm
um, 5' is about as short as you can go with darts, provided the spine is correct, and still have them function the way they should. you can throw shorter ones, but they wont have anywhere near the power or accuracy that longer darts will.

PM me direct or e-mail me through the website for pricing and availability, Morphy, as i don't do business direct on the forum.  ;)

Chris

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Nov 23rd, 2010 at 6:04pm
ive put more time and work into this atlatl than any other.

i think it paid off, im pretty happy with it and it'll look really good as the dogwood ages and darkens

20 " long and made from dogwood. the loops are yucca with deer sinew wrappings.




Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Nov 24th, 2010 at 9:58am
badass! a nearly indestructable atlatl! :D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Dec 8th, 2010 at 10:38am
this is my interperatation of the Potter Creek Cave atlatl. it's made from sapele which is sort of an African mahogany and the pegs are giraffe antler that i got from Redbeard (thanks, mate!). i'm calling it the 'springbok'.

Chris


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Dec 8th, 2010 at 3:21pm
that giraffe antler is just far out  :o awesome atlatl!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Dec 31st, 2010 at 8:37pm
some of my recent works....


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Dec 31st, 2010 at 8:56pm
great work as always  :o

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jan 5th, 2011 at 12:12am
thanks, man  :)

here's my latest Alaskan type thrower


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jan 5th, 2011 at 5:23pm
sweet atlatl  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Jan 8th, 2011 at 3:15pm
i guess this fits in this topic  :D

heres a quiver i made last night for my forshafts, its elk leather and lined with a rabbit pelt




Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Kjev on Jan 8th, 2011 at 6:53pm
Nice quiver Aztec!

One drawback to my aluminum darts is that they are all one piece. Makes for a big quiver! My goal for next spring is to make a set of wooden darts and foreshafts. I think I may make something similar to yours.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by LukeWebb on Jan 9th, 2011 at 1:22am
 Awesome work guys!  Hey Paleoarts, is that a 2 feather fletch in the one photo there?  If so, how well do those work?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 11:20am
really cool, Caleb!

Luke, no, that's a three fletch but i've made two fletch before and they work just fine. in fact, most primitive examples we have from the 'Basketmaker' caves are two fletch, and of course the Australians don't use any fletching at all.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 11:23am
clear birch with whitetail antler spur and keeper peg and deer hide lace handle wrap. 23 1/2'' overall.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 11:32am
this atlatl is a representation of a type known as 'Indian Knoll' belonging to the late archaic 'Mound Builder' culture of North America. much of what we know about it is speculation since only the antler handles, antler spurs, and carved banner stones survive. it is generally thought the shafts were made of cane since this is what was used to drill the banners and the holes in the handle and spur are consistent with the natural taper of river cane. the finger loops are suggested by images found on rock art. 27'' overall.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by aztec on Feb 3rd, 2011 at 3:44pm
great throwers man  ;D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Donnerschlag on Feb 4th, 2011 at 7:53pm
I can't remember if I posted this already, but here's my atlatl. I made it from an old white wax wood bo that was starting to weaken in the middle. Wost of the work was done with a khukri. ;D




Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 4th, 2011 at 7:59pm
very cool, D! looks like a sweet thrower, though you might want to under cut that spur just a touch.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Donnerschlag on Feb 4th, 2011 at 9:39pm

Paleoarts wrote on Feb 4th, 2011 at 7:59pm:
very cool, D! looks like a sweet thrower, though you might want to under cut that spur just a touch.

I haven't made any darts for it yet, but it seems fine so far. (In other words, I have no idea)

I think you're right, the curve there does seem a tad shallow

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 4th, 2011 at 10:34pm
just a couple of degrees ought to do it, i would think.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by kuggur slingdog on Feb 5th, 2011 at 5:27pm
Hi Paleo, really like that "Indian Knoll" type thrower. How heavy would you say that banner stone is?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 7th, 2011 at 9:38am
thanks, Kuggur. i'm not sure exactly, but it's fairly heavy. i'd say maybe like 8-10 oz. it is definitely too heavy for my tastes, but i know plenty of atlatlists that prefer a weighty thrower.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Mar 3rd, 2011 at 11:36am
cocobolo and whitetail antler


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by me2 on Mar 13th, 2011 at 8:24pm
Ok, I saw some Easton aluminum darts on the first or second page of this thread.  How do you do that so they don't break?  I made my first atl atl and darts today, using Easton arrows, and on the second hit on my fence (wood planks) the front piece split, and one actually broke in two.  I've been using a 50 lb. recurve bow for over 20 years and have never damaged an arrow like this.  I made the darts by using the threaded tip inserts and finding some threaded rod that fit into them.  Then I removed the nock, added an insert and threaded them together in the middle.  I also added an insert to use as the nock indention to grip the spur, a domed wood screw in this case.

While I'm asking questions, is there a proper length for atl atl's?  Mine's about 2' long, made from 3/4" PVC pipe, with the above mentioned wood screw spur.  Deceptively powerful, these things.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Mar 14th, 2011 at 10:46am
me2, i've never used aluminum darts myself, but have known others who have and you are right, the atlatl is too powerful for them. if you're going with modern materials then graphite is your best choice. darts fly at something like 2/3 the speed of arrows but are 2-5 times their mass, so they hit with much more kinetic energy. your atlatl is at an optimal length. most of my throwers are between 22'' and 27'', but i've seen them as short as 16'' and as long as 32'', so it's whatever is comfortable for you.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Mar 14th, 2011 at 10:46am
I have made them with aluminum arrow shafts, they are very light.  The easiest and most expensive is to use a full length carbon inside the aluminum shaft, make sure at least 4 inches sticks out for the second aluminum shaft to slide over. It will take 2 full carbons and part of a third.  A wooden dowel is not strong enough and you must fill in the whole dart or it will collasp.  If you plan to hunt with them or like a heavier dart, use a fiberglass chimmeny cleaning extension inside the aluminum shafts.  You can make three darts from two extensions.  I used Gorilla glue, it foams and fills in the space inside.  You can also make a take down dart by not gluing the two sections together, you will have to play with the carbons and aluminum shafts to get a good fit, other wise, everytime you hit something the back end will pop off.  Two part darts are a lot easier to fletch, you aren't dealing with the 6 foot length.  Your atlatl sounds fine, if it works, they can vary by a lot.  Bill

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Mar 15th, 2011 at 10:22pm
fishtail woomera. 24'' made of solid birch with buckskin handle wrap.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Apr 23rd, 2011 at 10:10am















;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Sandwalker on Jul 2nd, 2011 at 2:49am
Here are my Atlatl's...the ones I use. My 2nd and 3rd that I have made. I am hooked on this weapon, primitive bows and other weapons can't hold a candle to the mighty spear thrower! Once I started throwing with this, there was no turning back.... Only been a month since I've been using it but it is my favorite weapon by far...I really don't see the *point in other projectile weapons now, the Atlatl is too much fun, and I appreciate it's power and the thousands of years of proven prehistoric use behind it...but all in all it just feels so natural and satisfying to use...can't wait to hunt with it...

I carved these from pieces of dead poplar I found...they are 32 1/2" and 31 1/4"...both are a little over 4 oz, originally they were 6-7 oz but I trimmed them down and they throw much better now...they are both based on Australian designs...I throw 7' 9" 8 oz hardwood spears with these...




Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Jul 2nd, 2011 at 10:25am
Sandwalker, do those flex when you throw?  All of mine flex, I am thinking about trying one of the rigid Basket Maker or Artic Throwing Board style one of these days.  Bill

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Sandwalker on Jul 2nd, 2011 at 2:41pm
Bill,

They are rigid, but due to the length and thin profile I think there may be a very small amount of flexing going on when I throw but it is only the flex that naturally occurs with wood of the same diameter when put into motion and is definitely not intentional and is practically un-noticable, so it's definitely not a flex design and doesn't flex freely unless you put it in both hands and flex it manually as it is rigid.... I made one extremely thin atlatl not pictured here which was a flexing atlatl and I discarded it as it seemed too supple and liable to break due to the flexing going on...

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Jul 3rd, 2011 at 12:38am
I've got lots of osage, I think I will experiment some.  Bill

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by jlasud on Jul 3rd, 2011 at 2:24am
Worlds biggest collection of fine,art Atlatls.Paleoarts,you've made so many highly finished atlatls,you could possibly arm a pimped atlatl army  ;D.I have almost zero experience besides one quick survival style,but i feel like the curved,hammer grip would be the one i'd choose.Though i like them,and admire your work,the fact that you have to carry 6 foot darts,makes me stay with the sling.For hunters this wouldn't have been too much of a trouble though.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 12th, 2011 at 9:16am

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Sep 24th, 2011 at 2:42pm

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by paracordslinger on Sep 28th, 2011 at 10:35pm
ooh! i like the bacote minotaur alot!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by vroekie on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 11:10am
As an Atlatl can use lots of darts.
Is it possible to make a dart with a self lifting body for increased range?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Masiakasaurus on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 11:26am

vroekie wrote on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 11:10am:
As an Atlatl can use lots of darts.
Is it possible to make a dart with a self lifting body for increased range?

Not with the aspect ratio of the darts. A lifting body is a wide flat aircraft (or dart) the flies by using it's belly as a wing instead of having wings coming off of its side. Fins are usually put on darts to stabilize them and make them fly longer, but a true wing would also be impractical because of how the dart flexes during the throw. The wings wouldn't be able to generate very much lift in the beginning and would probably be counter productive.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by HurlinThom on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 12:19pm

Masiakasaurus wrote on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 11:26am:

vroekie wrote on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 11:10am:
As an Atlatl can use lots of darts.
Is it possible to make a dart with a self lifting body for increased range?

Not with the aspect ratio of the darts. A lifting body is a wide flat aircraft (or dart) the flies by using it's belly as a wing instead of having wings coming off of its side. Fins are usually put on darts to stabilize them and make them fly longer, but a true wing would also be impractical because of how the dart flexes during the throw. The wings wouldn't be able to generate very much lift in the beginning and would probably be counter productive.

How 'bout a Bill Rutan-style dart with a canard wing up front?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 8:20pm
A dart with feather fletches will spin.  Duct tape fletched darts do too.  Bill

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by curious_aardvark on Oct 23rd, 2011 at 12:11pm
damn good idea though.

Couldn't you fit a couple of delta wings towards the front and rear and a little aircraft tail wing affair instaead of feathers ?

Given the way and atlatl dart is thrown it wouldn't get in the way of the throw and would be correctly oriented at liftoff.

Sounds like project for someone to me  ;)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by David Morningstar on Oct 23rd, 2011 at 4:41pm
Nope. The dart twists along its length as well as bending up and down. You cannot avoid putting rotation into the dart during the throw because when it bends it acts like a pedal crank with you pushing on the end of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik6_bRSmPJk

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Oct 27th, 2011 at 11:50am
to visualize the motion of an atlatl dart during the toss and during flight, imagine a jump rope turning. an arc rotating from either end. but, not only is the arc rotating, the actual body of the dart is also spinning along its length at the same time. not the most ideal model for a lifting body i'm afraid. you could launch a winged missle using a force multiplying lever, but this wouldn't be an atlatl and the missle wouldn't be a dart, so....

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Oct 27th, 2011 at 11:54am

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by xxkid123 on Oct 27th, 2011 at 7:25pm
what are the white things that stick out? they look like antler or bone of some sort? how do you attach them to the atlatl?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Nov 1st, 2011 at 11:15am
they are antler finger pegs (well two of them. the rest are for decoration), Kid, and they're inserted into tightly fitted drilled holes using glue. i use this technique quite a bit.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Nov 12th, 2011 at 10:19am

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by thabaill on Feb 5th, 2012 at 8:36am
Hi

I have seen here so many beautiful atlatls and the very good craftsmen that you are, so I am planning to make something like this.



I must say that I have two left hands so the mine wouldn't be so nice, and far away from the pics that you show here.

I have read here that the ratio between atlatl and dart must be number pi. So the dart must be something about three times longer than the atlatl.

http://www.atlatl.com/mechanics.php

And reading this other web I found that a dart thrown by an atlatl could be as powerful as a potent compound bow.

http://www.tasigh.org/ingenium/atlatl.html

So I have made my homework calculating the kinetic energy of a 5 oz. dart at 100 mph. (something possible and not strange as I have read).

KE = (mv²)/450240

So 5 oz. -> 2187.2 grains

And 100 mph. -> 146.7 fps.

This makes that the kinetic energy would be 104.5 ft-lbs.

Almost the same as a powerful 70lbs. compound bow!!! If I am not wrong, LoL...

http://www.huntersfriend.com/bow-review-400-fps-bow/400-fps-compound-bow.htm

I know that the range is less than an arrow because the speed is lower and the dart is heavier, but the stroke is the same. However atlatl was used to kill mammoths, mastodons and all the megafauna. Sadly until they disappeared from the face of Earth  :'(

Best regards.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by David Morningstar on Feb 5th, 2012 at 10:50am
Dont pay too much attention to Bob Perkins, his pseudo-scientific posturings were overturned years ago.  There are plenty of ethological examples of spears and spearthrowers that do not conform to his formulae.  Just make sure you have enough flexibility in your dart that it doesnt fly tail down after the launch and you will be fine.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Feb 5th, 2012 at 1:37pm
The other thing is your numbers may be on the low side, most of my darts are a lot heavier, they are 1/2 inch (12.7mm) ash  that are 7 feet (2.1m) long.  The velocity is about right.  My river cane darts weigh slightly more than 5 ounces, also.  The length of the atlatl and the amount you practice will also effect your velocity.      

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by thabaill on Feb 5th, 2012 at 2:46pm
Hi

David thank you very much for your advice. Luckily I took from Bob Perkins only the ratio between atlatl and dart. I thought that he was serious. I am just a beginner and I am lost about this subject.

I have a 24'' hardwood stick from a dead and burned wild olive tree that I cut yesterday for making my first atlatl. I don't know if it is right or too short. I have straightened it with heat, that wood is really crooked.

Bill tank you very much. I prefer to make my estimations about the lower side. More heavier darts with the same speed means more powerful stroke.

I have calculated that a 5 oz. dart at 100 mph. has the same kinetic energy as a 350 grains arrow at 366.6 fps. (if I didn't have a mistake). So the hit of your darts in the target must be really amazing and powerful!

How long is your atlatl?

I found this two pics from South American atlatls or "estólicas".

http://www.profimedia.si/picture/gold-museum-displaying-atlatl/0014982759/

http://www.precolumbian-gallery.com/moche-vicus----art/viru-atlatl-204.htm

I think that the first (Colombian, Muisca) was not made for use, it is better suited for symbolic purposes.

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.

Greetings.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by David Morningstar on Feb 6th, 2012 at 3:24am

24" is fine, about as long as your arm seems to be the usual size but they can go as small as 18" in the Arctic or over 30" in some parts of Australia.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 6th, 2012 at 7:28pm
the average length for atlatls (of most users today) is between 22'' and 26'', but can be much shorter or longer

the average dart length is between 5' and 7.5'

the average dart width is 1/2'' at the distal end and 1/4'' at the proximal end

the average dart weight is between 3.5oz and 5.5oz

the average dart spine weight is anywhere between 5lbs and 15lbs with most in the 6-8lbs range


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by thabaill on Feb 10th, 2012 at 7:49pm
Hi

Thank you very much for the info.

Your work is actually awesome.

Greetings.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 9th, 2012 at 6:42pm

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Jul 25th, 2012 at 8:52pm

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Aug 11th, 2012 at 10:21am

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:46am

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Neandertad on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 1:08pm
Truly awesome work Paleoarts. Inspirational as well.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 25th, 2013 at 10:34am
thanks, man  :)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Feb 28th, 2013 at 11:11am



Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by woody2 on Feb 28th, 2013 at 8:59pm
What's the reason for the stone tied to the middle of the atlatl?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by David Morningstar on Mar 1st, 2013 at 6:11am

It works as a counterbalance when the dart loaded onto the atlatl and held horizontally. The point of balance is shifted back to the handle of the atlatl and you can hold it easily without wrist strain, very important when you are waiting for an animal to come into range.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Kjev on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 10:03am
A couple of my weights (I wore out a file making these, but it'll make a great knife)





They're shiny because I gave them a coat of clear nail polish just for kicks. Each one is about 2 inches long.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Paleoarts on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 10:59am
awesome, Kjev!

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 8:42pm
Those are great!  How did you get the glowing green eye?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Kjev on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:18pm

Bill Skinner wrote on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 8:42pm:
Those are great!  How did you get the glowing green eye?


I painted them white, then painted them with neon green craft paint. The hardest part was putting up with the weird looks I got from all the women in the craft store.

I still think Paleoarts is better at working stone than I am. :D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by jlasud on Apr 14th, 2013 at 11:30am
The dart i had,broke so i tried what is said to NOT WORK. I succesfully launched a 130cm(4 foot) dart weighting 110g (4oz) with a 70 cm (27") atlatl,multiple times,and it flew true and far. ~60m/180 feet
Just to let you guys know.
It broke once again,to about 3 feet,put the point back,didn't fly well.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Kjev on Apr 14th, 2013 at 8:22pm

jlasud wrote on Apr 14th, 2013 at 11:30am:
The dart i had,broke so i tried what is said to NOT WORK. I succesfully launched a 130cm(4 foot) dart weighting 110g (4oz) with a 70 cm (27") atlatl,multiple times,and it flew true and far. ~60m/180 feet
Just to let you guys know.
It broke once again,to about 3 feet,put the point back,didn't fly well.


What exactly is said not to work?

Did you splice it or use a shorter dart or something? Heck, I've even spliced broken atlatls together and they've worked just fine.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by jlasud on Apr 14th, 2013 at 11:12pm
the 130cm (4 foot) dart

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Kjev on Apr 15th, 2013 at 5:39am

jlasud wrote on Apr 14th, 2013 at 11:12pm:
the 130cm (4 foot) dart


Why wouldn't it work? If it flew, it worked.

I was taught that your atlatl should be built in proportionally to your body, and the darts built proportionally to that. It makes mine 5 feet long and they fly just fine.

My first atlatl was 2 feet long and my darts were 4-foot broomsticks. A little on the heavy side, but they flew. Not far, but they did fly.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by jlasud on Apr 21st, 2013 at 4:34pm
Generally longer ones are suggested. I'm 68 " tall

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 7:04pm
My first ever atlatl. It's basic, but it works pretty well. The darts aren't quite as long as they probably should be, but they'll still go flying.When I took this pic I didn't have any tips on the darts, but since then I have tipped them all. Two of them have "rabbit points" which for me is just a socket attached with electrical tape and epoxy. The other has a broad head point and is currently stuck in a tree.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by walter on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 7:30pm
I like your atlatl and darts. Simple is good. Ah, thats quite a crowd youv'e got there in the background :-/

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 7:39pm

walter wrote on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 7:30pm:
I like your atlatl and darts. Simple is good. Ah, thats quite a crowd youv'e got there in the background :-/

Thanks! I'm confused by your crowd statement though  :-?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by walter on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 9:12pm
Look cloesly at the backdrop. I often see people and critters in paneling, stone work, clouds etc. so I was a little apprehensive to mention the crowd, but checked with a friend a.d she says they are really there. I believe her ::)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 9:44pm

walter wrote on Apr 22nd, 2013 at 9:12pm:
Look cloesly at the backdrop. I often see people and critters in paneling, stone work, clouds etc. so I was a little apprehensive to mention the crowd, but checked with a friend a.d she says they are really there. I believe her ::)

Ah, gotcha. That would be my floor  :D

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 5:36pm
Made a new atlatl today! The one I posted yesterday was a bit too thick and I couldn't get a good grip on it. I kept throwing it away with the dart haha! This one is thinner and works WAY better. With it are the three darts from yesterday's pic as well as three more. The weight on the ends varies from dart to dart. I did the paint job too, I tried to emulate several patterns of Algonquin beadwork. The handle end is wrapped in jute.


Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 9:04pm
Try making one a little longer and flatten out the back until it is about 3/8th inch thick, it will still be stiff but it should handle better.  Leave your grip area full diameter.

Sorry, I was going to post that that is a great job on the painting, it looks great.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 9:24pm

Bill Skinner wrote on Apr 23rd, 2013 at 9:04pm:
Try making one a little longer and flatten out the back until it is about 3/8th inch thick, it will still be stiff but it should handle better.  Leave your grip area full diameter.

Sorry, I was going to post that that is a great job on the painting, it looks great.

Thanks  :)

How long would you say? That one is 17" exactly.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by walter on Apr 24th, 2013 at 12:23am
I've made several. The shortest is two feet long and is a bit too short. 28 is good for me (33 inch arm).

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Apr 24th, 2013 at 12:41pm
Optimum length is personal, just like with slings. ;D  I have atlatls that range from 22 inches (56cm) to 30 inches (76cm).  I can throw with all of them but I keep coming back to one that is 24 inches (60cm).  I also use longer darts than you do, mine are 7 feet long (2.1m), that also dictates your thrower length, shorter darts need a shorter atlatl unless you use a very heavy tip.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on Apr 24th, 2013 at 1:15pm

Bill Skinner wrote on Apr 24th, 2013 at 12:41pm:
Optimum length is personal, just like with slings. ;D  I have atlatls that range from 22 inches (56cm) to 30 inches (76cm).  I can throw with all of them but I keep coming back to one that is 24 inches (60cm).  I also use longer darts than you do, mine are 7 feet long (2.1m), that also dictates your thrower length, shorter darts need a shorter atlatl unless you use a very heavy tip.

That's exactly what I've gathered this morning. I made a new atlatl 24" in length and planed out the back like you said. It looks awesome, but doesn't work very well with the short darts. The ten that I have made are only about 3' in length, but they work well with the short atlatl. I'm eager to make some longer ones when I have the time and materials. Everything that grows straight around here breaks too easily  >:( I definitely feel a difference with the longer one though. It does feel better when throwing. I think with longer darts it will be a great atlatl.

EDIT: just for the sake of adding more detail, the longer atlatl makes the short darts wobble really bad and fly off course. Conversely, with the short one I can hit a 2'x2' styrofoam cooler from 75' every 2-3 throws.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Apr 25th, 2013 at 12:02pm
Your atlatl is overpowering your dart.  Your dart will need to bend almost double to work.  Willow that is about two fingers wide and about 6-7 feet long will work nicely, you have to use heat to straighten it and then let it dry.  Lay it flat, with the bark on once you have it straight and go off and leave it in the sun for a week or two.  After that, it will still have water in it but you should be able to strip the bark, restraighten, sand and use.  It will get lighter as it continues to dry.  Never lean it up against something, it will take a bend over night.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by walter on Apr 25th, 2013 at 4:58pm
Guess i'll be laying my bundle of willow shoot shafts on the floor (got them leaning against a wall) . :-/

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Kjev on Apr 26th, 2013 at 7:27pm

NorthwoodsSlinger wrote on Apr 24th, 2013 at 1:15pm:
[quote author=Bill Skinner link=1247874616/690#692 date=1366821663]Optimum length is personal, just like with slings. ;D  


I'm 5'8". Optimal length for me is an 18-inch atlatl with a 5-foot dart. Oddly enough, optimal length for a sling for me also seems to be one with lines about 18 inches-20 inches long.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on Apr 26th, 2013 at 10:45pm
Your dart to atlatl is about 3 to 1, if you went to a 6 foot dart (2m), you would have to increase the length of your atlatl to about 2 feet, (2/3m) and it would work right.  Whether it would be comfortable for you to throw is a completely different matter.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on May 6th, 2013 at 8:35pm

Bill Skinner wrote on Apr 26th, 2013 at 10:45pm:
Your dart to atlatl is about 3 to 1, if you went to a 6 foot dart (2m), you would have to increase the length of your atlatl to about 2 feet, (2/3m) and it would work right.  Whether it would be comfortable for you to throw is a completely different matter.

I had the chance to harvest some very nice bamboo while I was visiting my parents out east over the weekend. It's nice and green, beautiful diameter and quite straight already. I brought ten lengths of it with me. They're 6' 6" each and I ties them to a long piece od lumber to straighten out and dry. These will be my first ever legit atlatl darts even though I have made them this length before from inadequate materials. That said, what do you recommend for a point, fletching material, etc? I have a decent collection of large feathers, mostly from sea birds. I imagine they would work fine unless being too sturdy is a problem :P I'm baffled about what points to use though, sharpening the shaft itself won't be heavy enough will it?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on May 6th, 2013 at 10:00pm
Most bird feathers that you pick up by the seashore are illegal to posess.  Enormous fines and jail time are possible, so don't use them.  Exceptions are Canada geese, Snow geese and some of the other waterfowl that have a hunting season.  Molting season is close if not here yet, do you know of a resident flock of Canada geese?  I actually prefer geese feathers to turkey feathers.  If you have primary flight feathers, secondary flight feathers or tail feathers from a turkey, just one, tied whole on the dart will work.  For points, you can use a foreshaft or just cut the shaft at about a 60 degree angle, both will work.

I have rivercane, and have not worked all that much with bamboo but here are a few differences and a few things that I have learned.  Bamboo is heavier and tougher than rivercane, it will take longer to dry but will last for years.  There is a wax on the surface that needs to be sanded or scraped off for glue to stick to it, the exception is pine pitch glue, it will work on both but isn't all that good for putting fletching on.  If it is crooked, it will require heat to straighten.  I have had better luck straightening thin walled stuff after it dried out and thick walled stuff while it was still green.  

Practice throwing with out a fletch on at least one dart, if the dart goes screwy, it means you are doing something wrong, it should sail straight for 15 meters or so, it will curve off to one side after that unless it is perfectly straight.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on May 7th, 2013 at 6:49am
I see. Most of my feathers are from pelicans. As far as I know it's legal to pick those up here in NC. I've been collecting them since I was a kid and my grandpa never told me not to. He would know, he worked with Fish & Game for a long time. Plus I live on the opposite end of the state in the mountains so I'm not concerned.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on May 7th, 2013 at 12:47pm
Nope, pelican are a protected species, you cannot posses a feather without a federal permit.  It's not state fish and game laws, these are all federal or international laws, the fines are huge, we are talking six digits, and a couple of years in jail for a first offense.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on May 7th, 2013 at 5:16pm

Bill Skinner wrote on May 7th, 2013 at 12:47pm:
Nope, pelican are a protected species, you cannot posses a feather without a federal permit.  It's not state fish and game laws, these are all federal or international laws, the fines are huge, we are talking six digits, and a couple of years in jail for a first offense.

:o Thanks for the heads up! What about gull feathers?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on May 8th, 2013 at 11:45pm
You are going to have to look up the Migratory Bird Act, the Raptor Protection Act, the Seabird Protection Act and a few others, but basically, if it migrates, if it is a raptor, if it is a scavanger or if it is a songbird, there are all sorts of laws concerning possesing feathers, claws, beaks or any other part.  If it is waterfowl and there is a hunting season, you can usually keep feathers but you can't sell them, same for wild turkey feathers.  

If you go to a Pow Wow, ALL the dancers with eagle or hawk feathers are also carrying around the papers that authorize them to posses feathers from raptors.  They can get them from road killed birds or electrocuted birds, basically accidental deaths, because the birds are part of their religion.  The feathers are distributed by the USFW people, there is a waiting list and once they get them, they have to be willed in writing to someone, they can not be sold or given away while the origional owner is still alive.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by NorthwoodsSlinger on May 10th, 2013 at 10:57pm

Bill Skinner wrote on May 8th, 2013 at 11:45pm:
If you go to a Pow Wow, ALL the dancers with eagle or hawk feathers are also carrying around the papers that authorize them to posses feathers from raptors.  They can get them from road killed birds or electrocuted birds, basically accidental deaths, because the birds are part of their religion.  The feathers are distributed by the USFW people, there is a waiting list and once they get them, they have to be willed in writing to someone, they can not be sold or given away while the origional owner is still alive.


Yeah I had to keep a close eye on my crews when I was guiding canoe trips on the BWCA. People tried all kinds of things to go home with a Bald Eagle feather. One man was part Cherokee and was trying to keep one. I had to explain to him exactly what you just said.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Kjev on May 10th, 2013 at 11:32pm
I got chicken feathers from a craft store. Or if you know a neighbor who has geese, turkeys, or chickens, you maybe could work out a trade (pie for feathers!)

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on May 11th, 2013 at 9:26am
Everybody thinks it is just eagle feathers, pretty much all wild birds are covered with the same laws, it's to prevent them from being hunted to extinction for the pretty feathers.  Like the whooping crane and the indigo bunting.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by walter on May 11th, 2013 at 6:24pm
I used to pick up feathers I'd find in the woods. Had quite a collection; eagle, hawk, owl, vulture, raven... A friend was using wild bird feathers to decorate her pottery and found out it was illeagle (big fine). Since then I have learned to live without feathers ::)

Bill, are you sure the indigo bunting has been hunted to extinction? Swear I saw one under the feeder in early April.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Bill Skinner on May 12th, 2013 at 10:15am
The indigo bunting and the painted bunting are making a comeback, the indigo better than the painted.  So, you probably did see one.  

Title: Atlatls
Post by squirrelslinger on Jul 31st, 2013 at 1:32pm
Awesome weapon. 'nuff said.
pics later once mom gets home..

Title: Re: Atlatls
Post by Slinging101 on Aug 4th, 2013 at 6:36pm
I made an atlatl that can shoot arrows. Basically, I zip-tied a piece of insulated wire which knocked nicely into the butt of an arrow onto a stick with a nice nub, and then I added a rubber band to keep the wire from moving upward when the arrow was shot. Overall, it works fine. The only problem is that since an arrow is so small and doesn't bend enough, there isn't that much energy created, so I can only get it to go at most 100 feet and the arrow has no power at all. However, I plan on making an actual spear for this as soon as I get the materials, and if it all works well I'll post a tutorial (this topic could really use one ;)).

Pictures (the links don't work, copy them and paste them in a new window, hopefully you will be able to see them then)

file:///C:/Users/Other/Documents/Youcam/Snapshot_20130804.JPG

file:///C:/Users/Other/Documents/Youcam/Snapshot_20130804_1.JPG

Title: Re: Atlatls
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 4th, 2013 at 8:35pm
Those aren't links, they are file locations on your machine. You have to put the pictures online for us to see them.

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Slinging101 on Aug 5th, 2013 at 8:34pm
I cannot figure out how to put the pictures on here, how do I do so? I tried taking pictures with a camera and posting those by clicking "choose file," but it still doesn't work. Is there any topic in this forum where I can get help?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 5th, 2013 at 9:25pm
Yes. Yes there is. Somewhere...

[edit]It was stickied before we updated our software and kind of got lost. If you still have trouble, email me.
http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1359353818[/edit]

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by idigit on Jun 6th, 2015 at 3:24am
Ok now that I found this thread, time to post pictures of my atlatl and darts. So first is my atlatl, it's a Nanticoke kit from Bob Berg over at Thunderbird atlatl. I finished and wrapped it myself. Plus added the atlatl weight I received from Chris(Paleoarts). It's 22 inches and serves my 5'9" frame well. I kinda wish for a little bit longer atlatl, maybe 24+ inches, just for the added leverage and power. Not that it'd become my primary atlatl, just to try it and use for distance throwing. At the same time, I would like to try a more flexible atlatl. But I'm an inner city teenager who can't afford all of these atlatls and also can't find natural resources to make my own, seeing that I live in a concrete jungle. Las Vegas is just better suited for gambling than primitive arts. It saddens me. Someone remind me and I'll find the first atlatl I ever made out of 2X4 and post it here. Its super short, 12 inches, and really thick and bulky. I threw 48" dowels with duct tape fletchings. It worked, sorta. I was getting 40-50 yard throws. It was 7th grade and I had no idea what I was doing.
Ok picture time. Not sure how to do this, I guess I'll post them one at a time. Sorry for excessive posting everyone.
image1.JPG (2073 KB | 100 )

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by idigit on Jun 6th, 2015 at 3:35am
Closeup of the wrappings with the weight. I'm kinda proud of it. The entire wrap, from top to bottom is one piece of cordage. Incorporated the pattern and wrap of the weight all together. It's very tightly bound.
image2.JPG (1996 KB | 99 )

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by idigit on Jun 6th, 2015 at 3:37am
Top view.
image3.JPG (1513 KB | 133 )

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by Morphy on Jun 6th, 2015 at 6:38pm
Nice job. It's a shame your stuck in vegas. I feel your pain.

How are your newest designs working out for you?

Title: Re: ATLATLS & DARTS
Post by idigit on Jun 6th, 2015 at 11:34pm
Newest designs?

All of my darts are packed up right now (leaving for an archaeological dig tomorrow morning, was asked to bring my atlatl's, slings, and swiss arrows for some demonstrations/fun) so I can't get any good pictures, but for now I'll just go over what I have.

Now for darts. Again, being pressed for materials, I order dart shafts from Bob Berg. His finished darts/shafts never have any taper or flex, so I always do a ton of self modifying, basically just using him as a wood supply, seeing that I buy my own feathers, cordage, and tips for my darts. So I get the wood, usually 6 feet, sometimes 5. I shave/sand them to get a nice even front to back taper, and bring the flex from 15+ pounds to 6-10 (still not great, I know, but its the best I can do). I straighten it with fire, and coat it with an organic tung oil. Though I haven't done it to all the darts, yet. I use a helical fletch, leaving a slight twist for some spiraling in the air. Then I use a 175 grain steel glue on field point. brings center of gravity a little over 4 inches in front of actual center. I also have 3, 7 foot cane darts purchased from Chris, and one 5, and one 6 foot aluminum dart made by a local arrow/bow maker here in town. On top of that, I have a 6 foot compound dart with a copper tip and removable fore shaft. Then recently I cut down a branch of my neighbor's tree (with permission) and started turning it into a dart. The neighbor mentioned that some branches of his tree grow straight up very tall and straight for no apparent reason, and are unlike any of the other branches. Every so often, when one of these mysterious center branches gets around 10ish feet, he cuts them down for use as a fishing pole for the natural taper and flex. He said next time he saw one growing he'd let me know. Anyway he did have one a few months later, and notified me. I could only use about 55 inches of it, but I shaved it and cured it. Then straightened and fletched, and it's become one of my best and most powerful distance darts. Still has a bend I can never get out of it no matter how much I heat it, but it still works well. I still have all of those wooden dowel darts from 7th grade, so if you see short darts with red duct tape fletchings in the pictures, those are them.

I'm really trying to get into knapping, but can't find any flint supplies anywhere here or nearby. The closest thing I can find is quartz, but I've heard it's hard to start on quartz. Any suggestions?

Slinging.org Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.