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Message started by Corvid on Jun 14th, 2009 at 10:04am

Title: Hunting
Post by Corvid on Jun 14th, 2009 at 10:04am
Greetings - I'm interested in members experience of hunting with a sling or similar old school weapons. I'm wondering how efficiant hunting with a sling is and how "clean" a kill it is. I couldn't hit a rabbit even if it had a barn door tied to its back so for the time being their Safe. Im not really into the idea of hunting just for sport but hunting for food does apeal. So Hunting with a sling, Easy, efficiant, humane or not?

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by slinger87 on Jun 14th, 2009 at 10:37am
weather or not its a clean kill depends on where you hit it, if you hit it in the head yes, the leg, no. it is humane though, just as much as hunting with a bow or a gun

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Corvid on Jun 14th, 2009 at 11:19am
@ slinger87 - yup what you say makes sense

But how "easy" is it from a distance to hit something the size of a rabbits head and be fairly sure of a straight kill.What kind of wound would a hit from a sling bullett to the torso or leg leave on a rabbit Anyone have experience of hunting with a sling? - cheers

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by slangdeg on Jun 14th, 2009 at 11:51am
no first hand experience here, but i read the original hunting use of the sling was shooting at a flock of birds as they pass overhead, a hit would be much easier since your shooting into a large group. for a rabbit id rather use a throwing stick, easier to be accurate with and covers more area.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by mrboss on Jun 14th, 2009 at 1:07pm
Knollslinger hunted a rabbit before with a sling and after he shot it, all that was left were legs and a head.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by kuggur slingdog on Jun 14th, 2009 at 2:19pm

Corvid wrote on Jun 14th, 2009 at 10:04am:
So Hunting with a sling, Easy, efficiant, humane or not?


None of the above, therefor is a sling an unaccaptable hunting weapon in my book.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rockman on Jun 14th, 2009 at 3:02pm
It couldn't be completley useless, since people from the stone age used it at least for some types of prey.
Flying birds seems like a good target for sling hunting.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Neander97 on Jun 14th, 2009 at 3:41pm
We eat rabbit (snowshoe hare) a couple times a month and I give a lot of rabbits away, so I hunt them frequently.  Mostly I use a .22 rifle as that is simply the most efficient way to harvest rabbits.  But once in awhile I do take a sling and see if I knock one down.

When using a sling I don’t worry about headshots.  A 4oz rock hitting a rabbit in the thorax (at accurate velocities) will knock it down, if it’s not killed on impact a person is right there to dispatch it quickly.

The challenges that I face are:

A).  Stalking the rabbit until I’m in what I feel to be reasonable / responsible range . . . that is, getting close enough so that I’m reasonably confident that if I hit it, it will be knocked down and not merely injured and thus escape.  I follow that same personal rule with a rifle too – if I can’t be pretty darned certain of the shot, I don’t take it.  Stalking rabbit in brushy terrain takes some practice – you not only need to learn how to move through the brush, how to use cover/concealment, you also have to learn a bit about rabbit behavior.  But all of that comes with practice and it’s certainly not an impossible skill set to learn..

B).  The real challenge for me anyway is that I’m in the brush.  Getting close to the rabbits is doable quite a bit of the time.  However, getting close and having brush-free / obstruction free space to sling a rock is a different story.

Obviously it would much easier to sling in open country, but closing on the target is much harder in the open.  Sometimes I walk the trails and come upon rabbits feeding at the brush line along side the trail . . . sometimes I get close enough to sling a rock . . . once in a while I get the rabbit.

As far as the ethics of it goes, my thought is the same standards apply whatever weapons/tools you employ.  And these are just standards I hold for myself, I’m not trying to shove them off on anyone else.

- -Don’t shoot unless your intention is to harvest the animal.
- -If you don’t have a high degree of confidence that you can make the shot, don’t take it.
- -Don’t waste game.  If someone isn’t going to eat what you kill (or utilize the pelt/hide, etc), don’t take the shot.
- - If you hit something and it gets away, be prepared to spend some time and effort to try and find the wounded animal.

Anyway, I personally feel that a person can responsibly and humanely hunt small game with a sling – you just need to think it through and develop some personal standards and hold to them.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Jun 14th, 2009 at 6:48pm
I couldn't agree more, Neander.  If you kill an animal to put food on your dinner table, fine.  But show the animal the respect it deserves.  We've talked about hunting with the sling quite a bit on this forum. Most of us, myself included,  feel that we lack the skill to hunt humanely so we don't.  If I had to use a sling to hunt I'd try for the same types of targets that slangdeg mentioned like flocks of birds or maybe ducks and/or geese sitting on the water.  A covey of quail might be a good target.  Possibly I could knock a squirrel or two out of a nest.  I'm not talking about any sort of sport here... I'd hunt this way if it were a dire situation and we needed the food.  
  I used to hunt with a single shot 12 gauge shot gun.  My hope is to get as proficient with a sling as a am with a gun like that.  So far I have a very long way to go.  
   

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Jun 14th, 2009 at 6:48pm
Pleased to meet you, btw.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Neander97 on Jun 14th, 2009 at 7:52pm
Rat Man . . . pleased to meet you as well.

I agree with your emphasis on respect.  

An interesting thread.  I hope to read more comments as folks weigh in with their experiences and take on the subject.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Corvid on Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:17am
Hey cool to hear from you all - Interesting that Neander97 speaks of stalking rabbits, where i live the rabbits are everywhere and you can in a lot of cases walk within a few feet of them, There not Horrible swollen eyed Miximtosis rabbits, which i used to see a lot of when i was younger, I think their just used to humans and not being hunted.

I think i agree with Rat man, I dont have the skill, at the moment to feel comfortable using a sling to hunt, but having that skill must be grand. I have very little hunting experience at all but i agree that respect for prey is important - Do you think that respect makes for a better hunter?









Title: Re: Hunting
Post by kuggur slingdog on Jun 15th, 2009 at 8:20am

Neander97 wrote on Jun 14th, 2009 at 3:41pm:
- -If you don’t have a high degree of confidence that you can make the shot, don’t take it.

 
And I think that that ´s exactly the problem with a sling, at leatst it is for me. I would never be confident about making the shot with a sling as a weapon. I suspect there are not a lot of members if any on this forum that have slinging skills good enough for hunting.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Neander97 on Jun 15th, 2009 at 1:02pm
I don’t want to go on and on about this and make it sound like I think I own this thread  . . . but I would like to point out that is something else that is very much worth considering.  

Slinging rocks is a great way to pass some time in the great out-of-doors.  Stalking small game is challenging and fun.  

But there’s no rule that says you have to sling rocks at what you stalk.

A person can have a great time in the country slinging rocks, stalking small animals and enjoying being out doors without actually harvesting game.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by nwmanitou on Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:58am
So what if you are not confident with your shot with a sling? You are hunting a rabbit. Hitting it would be a stroke of amazing luck anyways. And hitting a rabbit pretty much anywhere with a sling stone with average velocity will kill it. I'm not terribly worried about wounding a rabbit with a sling stone. I've killed them with a slingshot easily enough and a sling delivers far more energy to the target in comparison. Even if not immediately dispatched, a hit from a sling stone will stun it long enough for me to run up and finish the job.

So I say sling away, more than likely you are going to miss. But if you do get lucky and nail a bunny, be prepared to dress it out and eat it. (unless you are out doing pest control, then let the coyotes have it)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by feanor on Jun 16th, 2009 at 4:15am
So what about bigger game than a rabbit? One should be able to kill quite a lot of different game, anything smaller than goliath I mean. :)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by kuggur slingdog on Jun 16th, 2009 at 5:55am
I recommend wild boar.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Et Cetera on Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:23pm
Blue whale?

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Neander97 on Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:28pm
>>I recommend wild boar.

I'd like to watch a video of that ; -)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by feanor on Jun 17th, 2009 at 9:37am
One very evil recommendation...
But watching it would be funny. :)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by timann on Jun 17th, 2009 at 11:38am
Evil, what do you mean evil...boars is suposedly wery tasty, you know.  Well, it could be difficult to kill a boar with a sling, so the best may be to stun it with the stone, aproach it swiftly, and strangle it with the sling before it regain its senses.
And do not forget that video ;)
timann

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by walter on Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:44pm
I dunno. Think maybe everyone is underestimating the power of a 4 - 5 oz. stone flying 100+ miles per hour and hitting the skull of ? Will definately put a hole in it. I hear slings were even used as a weapon in war. Don't think it was just to inconvenience the enemy....

Walter

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by mrboss on Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:52pm

walter wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:44pm:
I dunno. Think maybe everyone is underestimating the power of a 4 - 5 oz. stone flying 100+ miles per hour and hitting the skull of ? Will definately put a hole in it. I hear slings were even used as a weapon in war. Don't think it was just to inconvenience the enemy....

Walter


I agree, there is even proof that slings can put holes through a human skull with the projectile only going 93 mph (which is a slow speed for slings) , so im feeling pretty safe.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by kuggur slingdog on Jun 19th, 2009 at 6:40am
Yes, a fine weapon of war if you sling "en masse" at the enemy. There is nothing wrong with the power of a sling, it´s the accuracy that´s wanting.
Btw attempting to make a headshot is frowned upon by hunters who use very precise fire arms, for reasons obvious to people who know something about hunting (or mammal anatomy).

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Jun 19th, 2009 at 9:51am

nwmanitou wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:58am:
So what if you are not confident with your shot with a sling? You are hunting a rabbit. Hitting it would be a stroke of amazing luck anyways. And hitting a rabbit pretty much anywhere with a sling stone with average velocity will kill it. I'm not terribly worried about wounding a rabbit with a sling stone. I've killed them with a slingshot easily enough and a sling delivers far more energy to the target in comparison. Even if not immediately dispatched, a hit from a sling stone will stun it long enough for me to run up and finish the job.

So I say sling away, more than likely you are going to miss. But if you do get lucky and nail a bunny, be prepared to dress it out and eat it. (unless you are out doing pest control, then let the coyotes have it)

The "so what" we're referring to is that you will only recover a small percentage of your injured animals and the rest will crawl or limp into the bush to die a slow, agonizing death.  To some I guess that wouldn't matter.  It does to me.  

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by nwmanitou on Jun 19th, 2009 at 1:57pm
Did you not read the entire post? No offense, but I've harvested alot of wild game with slingshots, bows, and a myriad of firearms.


Killing small game is not like hunting deer. With deer, yes, shot placement is essential. But with little rabbits, a hit to the body with a sling stone is lethal. Because of a rabbit's anatomy and size, you are either going to hit it in the head or in the body as it tucks it's legs underneath, both lethal shots.

Essentially what I'm saying is if you are lucky enough to hit a rabbit with a sling stone the vast majority of the time it will die on the spot. So, you will either kill it or miss entirely. Not saying that the chance of just wounding it is none existent, but that it is very very slim and a risk all hunters take. Flukes happen, I've seen a rabbit survive a close range shot from a 16guage shotgun. It was mortally wounded but required a followup shot so as not to prolong its suffering.

Hence my original premise.. sling away at small game like rabbits and ground squirrels 'cause you are either going to kill it or miss entirely.

Oh, and Kuggur, the main reason why hunters generally do not attempt headshots with firearms is because they don't want to mess up the Antlers so they can be mounted later. However, head and neck shots are preferred when hunting antlerless or spikes as they drop the animal immediately (destroy the CNS). Even with a perfect heart shot an animal can run several hundred yards before expiring, sometimes causing it to be lost. Archery hunters avoid headshots because 1. they are very difficult, and 2. Arrows kill by hemorrhaging, so the best spot for a quick humane kill is the heart and lungs. Obviously, any archer that wants to be successful has to practice his blood tracking skills.

Sling stones kill by crushing. So unless the critter is small enough to kill with a body shot (rabbits, squirrels, birds) the head is the only viable target. The skull of a young deer, right behind the eye socket can be as thin as a 1/32 of an inch or about 1.5 mm. A stone to the temple will kill it dead. A relative who worked as a government culler personally dispatched thousands of deer, feral goats, and feral boar with the .22 lr. A tiny bullet considered suitable only for rodents and crows. Some of the deer were upwards of 200lbs yet they collapsed on the spot with barely a twitch from a .22 to the head. People slaughter 2000lb steers with the .22 or  a blow from a hammer to the head. A sling stone is not unlike a flying hammer.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Eoraptor on Jun 19th, 2009 at 2:24pm
I side with nwmanitou on the rabbit kill issue, if you hit a rabbit with a good hard throw (not a miss fire, or a hesitant cast), it will pretty much die on the spot because of the impact shock.  

As for big game, as log as you are accurate (solid head shot accurate), I think you could take deer... as for the wild boar... not impossible I suppose... I wouldn't... but good luck with that...  and do post a video if you actually try it  :)



Title: Re: Hunting
Post by dork on Jun 19th, 2009 at 5:24pm
I used to work with a guy that used slings to herd cattle in Mexico. They never threw at the cattle just in front of them to scare in the right direction. He told me that he has seen some younger cattle die from a single accidental shot to the neck. He also said that he has seen the horns shot off accidentally. This was very rare but shows the possilble power of the sling to flesh. He said his dad was the best shot in town and could take a soda can off a fence post at 50 yards.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Liberty dog on Jun 20th, 2009 at 10:56am
I wouldn't hunt boar with anything less than a 12ga. , pigs are tough as nails with a nasty disposition to boot. I have heard tell of hunters shooting boar through the lugns and still having to shimmy up a tree to get away from the charging beast.....and as for head shots, i'm just not sure a stone from a sling will cause enough damage to a pig skull....their fairly thick headed.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by kuggur slingdog on Jun 20th, 2009 at 6:33pm

nwmanitou wrote on Jun 19th, 2009 at 1:57pm:
Oh, and Kuggur, the main reason why hunters generally do not attempt headshots with firearms is because they don't want to mess up the Antlers so they can be mounted later. However, head and neck shots are preferred when hunting antlerless or spikes as they drop the animal immediately (destroy the CNS).


God I hope you are wrong and the average hunter has more sense than that. The reason you should avoid head shots is because the brain is small and lies in a difficult to hit spot. Chances are big you´ll hit the nasal/frontal cavaties, or even worse you blow away the lower jaw. That´s a pretty crappy way to die.

As goes for your sling hunting stories, well maybe you are a sling god, but I couldn´t make consistent shots, good enough for those kind of kills, even when I practised very day....No sling hunting for me.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Typhon on Jun 21st, 2009 at 4:33am

Corvid wrote on Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:17am:
i agree that respect for prey is important - Do you think that respect makes for a better hunter?

Yes.


Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Typhon on Jun 21st, 2009 at 4:39am
It is necessary to respect the prey, yourself and your weapon when hunting.
Lose any one of these and you lose a lot of the experience of a hunt.
I don't mean you have to become all mystical about it, but know what you're doing when you kill (harvest if you must use a PC term/euphemism). Typhon.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Typhon on Jun 21st, 2009 at 5:03am
Gentlemen. I believe that both nwmanitou and kuggar sling dog are correct [i]when taken in context[/i].
nw manitou takes the atitude that ANY decent hit with a reasonably weighted sling projectile will immobilise the or kill the rabbit, he also points out that a wounded animal can result with ANY weapon. I have shot rabbits with a .22 and can only remember 1 case where the rabbit escaped after I shot it, I rushed the shot and hit too far back. That was more than 25 years ago and I still remember it. It is to my shame that it happened but, to get some good out of the experience, it has made me a MUCH more careful shot.
What nwmanitou has not said but I take from context is that he is NOT saying,desppite his wording, take shots that are unworkable. I understood him to mean that if one has a nice clean shot at reasonable range, and having a reasonable chance to hit solidly, there is no reason not to have a shot.
kuggar sling dog is also correct when he says one should only try to take living animals when one is SURE on one's ability to do so cleanly. He rightly has reservations about his skill(Gods know I have resevations about mine with a sling)to kill cleanly, and is forthright about stating his case. It is not a good thing to let an animal escape wounded and I've spent a bit of time hunting down wounded animals my self, mostly other peoples when a shot went wrong.
Both sides here have valid points, yet I doubt that there is really an argument here, because neither side argues that a shot should be taken in anything but optimal circumstances.  Regards  Typhon.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Typhon on Jun 21st, 2009 at 5:16am
Regarding hunting Feral Pigs, or the wild pigs/javalinas of the Americas.
There is no way on earth or off it you'd find me sling a shot, lead, steel or those broad head tipped beauties mentioned in the "Big Game" thread, at a pig. Pigs have shrugged off .303 hits in the head and shoulder area. The .303 is more powerful than the .30/40 Krag for those of you who are familiar with this older American military round.
Head shots.
Head shots can be tricky with anything, I've taken various animals with head shots and it is a shot I like if I can get it. BUT it is usually taken from a nice steady possie if it is over 25 yards away or even under if I have a rest available. It is the cleanest of all kills if possible. As a side point I know where the brain is of anything I'm likely to shoot so I don't shoot at the head. I shoot at the brain or I take a shot at the heart lung group if I'm shooting off hand and I keep off hand shots under 30 yards. I've lost a few shots that way but I'd rather lose a shot than wound an animal. These are my thoughts on the matter, and as some one else said in anither thread I'm not trying to shove them down anyone's throat.  Typhon.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Jun 21st, 2009 at 11:14am

Corvid wrote on Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:17am:
Hey cool to hear from you all - Interesting that Neander97 speaks of stalking rabbits, where i live the rabbits are everywhere and you can in a lot of cases walk within a few feet of them, There not Horrible swollen eyed Miximtosis rabbits, which i used to see a lot of when i was younger, I think their just used to humans and not being hunted.

I think i agree with Rat man, I don't have the skill, at the moment to feel comfortable using a sling to hunt, but having that skill must be grand. I have very little hunting experience at all but i agree that respect for prey is important - Do you think that respect makes for a better hunter?

I am no where near the skill level that would allow me to effectively hunt, but as you say, having that skill must be grand.  That is my goal.  I want to be as efficient with my sling as I was with my single shot 12 gauge shotgun.  Even if I don't regularly use it to hunt, I'd love to have the ability in case it's  ever necessary.   Do I think having respect for the prey makes one a better hunter?  Yes, for many reasons.  A practical one is that one who respects his prey would be less apt to waste the resource.  This would help facilitate better hunting in the future, both long and short term.  
  There are other reasons, but I have to think about how to put them to words.


Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Jun 21st, 2009 at 11:19am
That last message is a bit messed up.  It looks like a quote from Corvid, but the last paragraph is me, Rat Man.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by nwmanitou on Jun 21st, 2009 at 8:10pm
Typhoon has the right idea..


A hunter should never unnecessarily risk only wounding an animal by taking shots beyond their skill level. To do so is not only disrespectful to the prey but irresponsible, dangerous, and unethical. However, when talking about small, delicate game like rabbits, the chances of only wounding it with a sling stone are very small. If you hit a rabbit just about anywhere with a sling stone you are going to kill it. So you will either hit and kill the rabbit or miss entirely. Both outcomes are acceptable in my book. If you miss, the rabbit will run off or often doesn't even realize it was shot at. If you hit it, you have a good meal. Life is precious and when I harvest (kill) an animal I accept the sacred responsibility to effectively utilize that animal. I think we all agree that a sling stone is sufficient to kill small game like rabbits and that no one here thinks it's ok to unnecessarily risk wounding an animal. We just have to accept that killing (harvesting) game isn't as immediate as flipping a switch but if reasonable steps have been taken to ensure a humane kill then I see no problem in the attempt.

Am I confident that I'd hit the rabbit with my sling? not really, though I might be able nail one  if I had enough opportunities. Am I confident that if I did manage hit the rabbit it would die on the spot with minimal suffering? absolutely. Again I am either going to hit and kill it or I'm going to miss entirely. In this case I don't feel that I'm unnecessarily risking just wounding the rabbit taking shots that I'm not completely sure will connect.

PS.
Tougher or larger game are different than delicate little bunnies. When rifle hunting I prefer to neck shoot my deer, just behind the jaw. I shatter the spine, the jugular vein, and carotid artery which drops it on the spot with out wasting hardly any meat. If I can't get a clear neck shot, I aim for the traditional heart and lungs. My opinion is that many hunters compensate for poor marksmanship with larger caliber rifles, I'm sure most just enjoy the better ballistic performance of these larger rounds, but there is faulty notion that you NEED a huge cartridge to reliably bring down a deer when more emphasis should be placed on shot placement. Often this notion results in loosing a significant amounts of meat to bullet damage (bloodshot). I learned my lesson when I used a load that was too hot for the young deer I shot. I hit it where I wanted to, but then the bullet traveled the length of its body destroying the tenderloin and a good portion of one of the rear quarters. I like that particular cartridge because of the the energy it can deliver at longer ranges but for smaller deer I'm not going to take a body shot with it if I can get a neck shot. When bowhunting (for elk this year) I only take shots under 30 yards because that's as far as I feel confident that I can place the arrow in the heart and lungs for a clean humane kill.

Also, I think you'd be crazy to go after a boar with a sling. A knife? sure, I'd do it (already killed several farm boars with one...mmmm kalua pig), and my boar spear is waiting for an opportunity. But if you do try to go after a dangerous animal with a sling YOU MUST VIDEO TAPE IT or we won't believe you, or your next of kin.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by kuggur slingdog on Jun 22nd, 2009 at 8:02am
Just for the record, my "wild boar" recommendation was a joke. Never thought anybody would even consider it  ;D.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Corvid on Jun 22nd, 2009 at 8:11am
With whats been said about the sling being an effective way to kill small animals/birds - If the hunter is skilled or lucky - and the diffculty of bringing down large game due to increased muscle and bone mass whats the next "primative" weapon up from the sling for distance killing - Spear or Bow?
I'm thinking Spear, it seems to me to have the advantage of simplicity - any thoughts?

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Steven on Jun 22nd, 2009 at 8:20am
Spear is  too heavy and too short ranged .... Atlatl  followed by bow and arrow, and then the spear for heavier game.

There is a video on the web of a 7yr. old taking a deer with atlatl so you do not have to especially strong to use it.

A medium sized game class of hunting bow requires some amount of strength to use. And a spear because of its weight ; requires a good amount of strength to cast and a lot of strength to stab.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by nwmanitou on Jun 22nd, 2009 at 3:49pm
I agree with Steven... Atlatl then the Bow. Spears were up close and personal.


Well, on my walk today I saw a big squirrel on a boulder. I got up to about 20 yards and figured I'd take a shot. There were no nice smooth stones to be had so I had to settle for a jagged block of sorts. I was slinging all day Saturday so my arm is really sore; I have a rotator cuff injury that'll probably require surgery at some point. But anyways, I let the stone fly and it hit about 8 inches to the right of the squirrel on another boulder slightly closer to me. The critter didn't even flinch. The stone turned to dust and I'm sure had I hit the squirrel it would have torn it in half. It decided to disappear into the pile of boulders while I was looking for another stone. Had my aim been just a hair to the left I would have had a squirrel for lunch, or at the very least, fed it to the family of ravens that nests near by (they follow me around when I'm hiking). So it can be done. I was surprised that the squirrel stood still for me. 20 yards seems to be about the limit though, I got just a few feet closer while looking for another stone and it decided to bolt.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Corvid on Jun 24th, 2009 at 6:35am
Atlatl then Bow then spear? Not Bow then Atlatl then Spear? There must be some advantage of Bow over atlatl, The bow seems to have taken the place of the Atlatl in a lot of cultures, wonder why?

Does that mean the sling is consigned to small game or through skill and/or modification can it be used for larger game or are you more likley to end up with an injured animal that you've then got to chase and dispatch some other way?.

@nwmanitou - I love Ravens, i've only seen them in the highlands a couple of times but cool birds - some nasty habits but you gotta admire there inteligence.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Steven on Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:06am
sling, atlatl, bow order .... ease of construction and ease of use .... a good bow is not easy to construct or use.
I think the bow replaced atlatl because it is  easier to move through and use in brush , a lot more ammo can be easily carried and it out ranges atlatl for aimed fire.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Fundibularius on Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:37am

Steven wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:06am:
I think the bow replaced atlatl because it is  easier to move through and use in brush , a lot more ammo can be easily carried and it out ranges atlatl for aimed fire.


Agreed. In Europe, the atlatl vanishes with the end of the ice age and the disappearance of wide, open tundras as well as of great herds of big animals (esp. mammoth and reindeer). After that, in the Mesolithic, great parts of the continent were woodland with a greater variety of animals, but smaller groups (deer, boars etc). A great time for bowhunters, but an atlatlist with darts that were longer than he himself on his back or his hand would have had less chances to move silently through the thicket.

One great advantage of the atlatl was, in my opinion, its ability to bring down even big game with one hit. A reindeer hit by an atlatl dart would probably be swept off its feet by the impact only, even if the shot itself were not lethal. This would give the hunter time to approach and finish it off with a club or something else. Accuracy was probably not so important, especially when the hunters were aiming at large groups of animals.



Title: Re: Hunting
Post by xxkid123 on Jun 24th, 2009 at 11:42am
truthfully, the rabbits in my place could be caught by hand, just stalk up without looking until your about 3-5 feet away, then dash and catch it. if you wanted to hunt it you would be better off using the sling as a club.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Eoraptor on Jun 24th, 2009 at 1:17pm
Bows and arrows have been used to take down big game too.  Resently, arceologists have discovered that what they had assumed where fish spears where actualy used for hunting elk (or rindeer, or caribou, whatever they are called in that area, I keep getting them mixed up :-[) by mounting them on the tip an arrow.  They are carved of bone, and look like fish spears, but I haven't actually seen one of the origional ones, only a recreation.  Aparently they were found when glaciers retreated somewhere in northern Eroupe, and where found still attached to arrows with traces of caribou blood.  

Hmmm... I know how sketchy that sounds, but it is, to the best of my knowlage, true.  Although I can't find anything about it on the internet, and that makes me wary.  It came to me through the archaeological grape vine (it is extensive  :o) and they are seldom wrong... I believe it is true, or I woulden't have passed it along... but if I where you I wouldn't buy it inless you have two scources... so I guess I should actualy be asking if anyone else heard of this?  

Sorry if that's confusing, it just kinda evolved with my train of thought...

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Fundibularius on Jun 24th, 2009 at 1:36pm
Sorry, I did not express it clear enough. I did not want to say that you cannot bring down big game with bow and arrow - just look at how North American tribes hunted buffalo in the 18th and 19th century; I think it was Catlin or the Prince of Wied who reported that some Plains Indians could kill a buffalo with a spear or even a knife only.

What I meant was that the atlatl (or spear thrower, which is the more common term in Europe) was an excellent hunting weapon during the last Ice Age, but it became inferior to the bow (which, by the way, had probably been invented in paleolithic times already) when the vegetation of the continent changed to woodland in the mesolithic era.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by David Morningstar on Jun 24th, 2009 at 1:57pm

Fundibularius wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:37am:
Agreed. In Europe, the atlatl vanishes with the end of the ice age and the disappearance of wide, open tundras as well as of great herds of big animals (esp. mammoth and reindeer). After that, in the Mesolithic, great parts of the continent were woodland with a greater variety of animals, but smaller groups (deer, boars etc). A great time for bowhunters, but an atlatlist with darts that were longer than he himself on his back or his hand would have had less chances to move silently through the thicket.


The bow is better than the atlatl for one important reason - there is less time for the prey to react because the launch is instant and the flight is quicker. The practical hunting range of the atlatl is much less than the bow because of the need to get inside the preys reaction time. A dart can be thrown accurately to 20 yards or more but any animal not asleep on its feet will be gone before it gets hit.


Quote:
One great advantage of the atlatl was, in my opinion, its ability to bring down even big game with one hit. A reindeer hit by an atlatl dart would probably be swept off its feet by the impact only, even if the shot itself were not lethal. This would give the hunter time to approach and finish it off with a club or something else. Accuracy was probably not so important, especially when the hunters were aiming at large groups of animals.


Bwahahahhaha! No.

Archeologically recovered atlatl darts used to hunt Caribou in Canada were 5 1/2 to 6 feet long and quite lightly constructed. The points they were carrying are indistingushable from those on the arrows that replaced them.

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic57-3-260.pdf


Title: Re: Hunting
Post by David Morningstar on Jun 24th, 2009 at 2:04pm

Fundibularius wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 1:36pm:
What I meant was that the atlatl (or spear thrower, which is the more common term in Europe) was an excellent hunting weapon during the last Ice Age, but it became inferior to the bow (which, by the way, had probably been invented in paleolithic times already) when the vegetation of the continent changed to woodland in the mesolithic era.


Again I would disagree. Wherever the bow has appeared it immediately displaces the atlatl with odd specific exceptions (one handed use from kayaks, ritual use for Aztecs due to atlatl carvings on ancient temples).

The sling has survived and been used alongside the bow or instead of the bow all over the world, but the atlatl vanishes. Australia is the exception that proves the rule since it has neither sling nor bow, and the spearthrower survived there.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Liberty dog on Jun 24th, 2009 at 10:39pm

xxkid123 wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 11:42am:
truthfully, the rabbits in my place could be caught by hand, just stalk up without looking until your about 3-5 feet away, then dash and catch it. if you wanted to hunt it you would be better off using the sling as a club.




have somewhat the same trouble here as well...... bunnies all over the road. most of my hunting this year will mostly be done with my truck ;D

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by the_warrior_yeti on Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:14am
Eoraptor,

You aren't mislead. I've also heard of bone harpoons having been used on land mammals in Europe, but not on arrows, on atlatl darts. In France I went to an atlatl competition and met a friend, Pascal Chauvaux, who has been into recreating Magdalenian spear throwers and competing with them for some time. He loves to replicate them, and knows a much about it as anyone, if not more. That's when I first heard of the harpoons, and it may also be in the Stodeik Thesis. Perhaps the tactic was to attach a rope to a weighted sled, and the other to the dart or arrow, similar to attaching a bladder to a harpoon for seals. That's just a speculation on my part, but to my mind this tactic would be more effective when ambushing a running herd of reindeer that were being driven by your location. Making a shot to the vitals on a single animal would be difficult, but this way you could simply throw at the herd in general, then your quarry is much easier to catch, and so exhausted from hauling the weight that it puts up no fight.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Eoraptor on Jun 27th, 2009 at 9:28pm
Thanks for the followup warrior yeti, I don't know why I coulden't find any of that on the internet...
@Fundibularius:  Sorry for the missunderstanding, I tend to do that a lot   :P

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by johnny cott on Jun 29th, 2009 at 2:15pm
I have been out in the country after rabbits annd so far I have had no luck hitting any rabbits  when I do I will let you know

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Chuckaduck on Jan 29th, 2011 at 6:09pm
*meep*

sorry for the necro

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 15th, 2011 at 4:45pm
it seems as though none of you really think hunting is good. what i say is that if you are in season, and have permission, sling ant thumper as hard as you can and hope it hits him!

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Mar 15th, 2011 at 10:40pm
Though a few of us here are anti-hunting, I think most of us are fine with it.  A lot of us feel that we lack the accuracy to hunt with a sling and get a good, clean kill.  We don't want to go off maiming animals.  I used to hunt when I was younger but lost interest in it.  I've never hunted with a sling.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 16th, 2011 at 10:29am
if you maim an animal, then it should be slow enough for you either to get amother shot, or run in and slit is little throat! but im pretty sure that a fist sized rock hitting just about anything would  either kill, or stun the animal long emough for you to end him!

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Mar 16th, 2011 at 4:33pm
Unless I move, I won't be able to test that theory.  The sling is not a legal hunting weapon in my state, New Jersey.  I did look into what it would take to get the sling approved here.  Trust me, it aint happenin'.  I would hunt illegally with a sling if there was some sort of emergency situation and my family and I faced starvation.  I imagine a flock of ducks or geese sitting on a lake or a squirrels' nest would be targets where success was likely. Thumper would be a difficult target, IMO.  Shooting both water foul at rest and squirrels in their nests are illegal and considered unsportsman-like here, but if we were starving I wouldn't care.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by nwmanitou on Mar 16th, 2011 at 6:07pm
There are many unprotected species you can hunt with any weapon. Over here jack rabbits, coyote, asian collared dove, grey squirrels and a few others are unprotected and are either considered vermin or invasive.


Soon as I get a chance I'll go out and see if I can video me taking a jack rabbit with a sling.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Mar 17th, 2011 at 12:14pm
My state is very law-happy and even animals considered vermin can only be taken certain ways at certain times.  It seems the more populated an area the more laws you end up with.  If I was hungry I'd say to heck with laws.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by dogcatchersito on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:54am
Hey Rat man and Paracord

I was waiting for this subject to get touched on again and here is what i was thinking in order to use a sling as a hunting weapon i think you would mainly have to stick to fouls.   With that being said  was wondering which ones and that would mainly be Canadian geese as they multiply fairly quickly.  As well as getting big with just vegetation.  And the reason i think sling hunting can only be done on foul is they let u get real close without flying away. They aren't super fast unless in flight and even then they aren't to to fast. And they make more than a adequate target (their just the size of a milk jug).  Also u can raise them on private land and when you had enough you can take them out only by claiming they are pest as they are here in Indiana since they never leave or migrate.  That is how i plan on hunting with a sling.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:18am
....also they flock together so if you miss your initial target you stand a good chance of hitting another.  We have geese here that migrate and the pest geese that you mentioned, that stay all year in great numbers and poop all over everything.  In this state you're not allowed to harm the pest geese.  There are people here who make a living chasing geese off of commercial properties with specially trained dogs.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by dogcatchersito on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:38pm
i saw a documentary bout those trained dogs they say the hardest part is getting them not to bite the geese.  But yea thats how i was planning on hunting with a sling any animal like a squirrel rabbit u can kinda forget about it.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:33pm
I think a rabbit would be a difficult target, but squirrels have a habit of hiding in their nests.  Shooting a squirrels' nest is considered unsportsmanlike and is illegal here, but in an emergency situation you could take as many shots as necessary and bomb them in their nests.  You'd have to use fairly large stones, but I think it could be done.  I would do this only if the alternative was starving in that there's really no sport to it.
  If I were shooting ducks and/or geese sitting on the water I'd use an underhand shot.  The topspin you get with such a shot causes your projectile to bounce forward in a low trajectory.  If you miss short you might still get a bird with your skipping stone.  Also underhand is my most accurate style.
  Again, both these means of hunting are illegal in New Jersey and I would only utilize them if it was absolutely necessary.  

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:24pm
in kansas, we can get pea gravel, which is about 1/2 of an inch. if you load this into a sling, it is like a shotgun, low distance, not very accurate, and if you are shooting in the general direction, you will probably hit it. so i could probably kill a rabbit, squirrel, or goose with them. ;)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by RJB on Mar 18th, 2011 at 9:17pm

paracordslinger wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:24pm:
in kansas, we can get pea gravel, which is about 1/2 of an inch. if you load this into a sling, it is like a shotgun, low distance, not very accurate, and if you are shooting in the general direction, you will probably hit it. so i could probably kill a rabbit, squirrel, or goose with them. ;)

Try a staff sling instead of a hand sling.  I get a pattern as if I were shooting a 410 shotgun with a staff sling.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by RJB on Mar 18th, 2011 at 9:20pm

Rat Man wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:33pm:
I think a rabbit would be a difficult target, but squirrels have a habit of hiding in their nests.  Shooting a squirrels' nest is considered unsportsmanlike and is illegal here, but in an emergency situation you could take as many shots as necessary and bomb them in their nests.  You'd have to use fairly large stones, but I think it could be done.  I would do this only if the alternative was starving in that there's really no sport to it.
  If I were shooting ducks and/or geese sitting on the water I'd use an underhand shot.  The topspin you get with such a shot causes your projectile to bounce forward in a low trajectory.  If you miss short you might still get a bird with your skipping stone.  Also underhand is my most accurate style.
  Again, both these means of hunting are illegal in New Jersey and I would only utilize them if it was absolutely necessary.  

With the nest, I would guess that there would be a good chance of the dead squirrel getting stuck in the nest.

Waiting under the tree at sun up or just before sundown would be a better idea.  The best idea would be to let a few traps do the work for you.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Paleoarts on Mar 19th, 2011 at 3:28am
this subject comes up every couple of months it seems with the influx of new members, so i apologize to the veterans who have heard me say this a dozen times. i hunt quite often with my slings and have for many years. rabbits, squirrels, doves, quail, ducks, and ptarmigan and chuckers when i'm in the mountains. i've even taken turkey before, but that is about the limit in size of prey i suggest for even a seasoned slinger. ammo selection is very important in sling hunting. stones about the size of large chicken eggs or bigger are all but required to make a clean kill on even very small game such as dove. gravel will just not do the trick. it doesn't have the mass required to bring down prey cleanly. for even a well practiced slinger, you can only expect about one shot in ten or twenty to actually connect and even then you have to be prepared to chase and track your quarry. animals are tough and even mortally wounded ones can run or fly quite a distance. having said that i will tell you that i've gotten as many kills from bounce shots than i have with direct hits. that's one of the benefits the sling has over, say, bows or atlatls. i look at the sling as an opportunistic hunting weapon. that is, i rarely set out to go hunting with it, but rather always have one with me when i'm hiking and use it when the moment presents itself.

Chris

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 19th, 2011 at 9:48am
if an egg sized stone hits a squirrel, then it would probably ruin all the meat,therefore completley destroying the purpouse of a hunt! >:(

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Mar 19th, 2011 at 12:02pm
I don't get that, paracordslinger.  Please explain how the meat would be ruined.  You might have a big, bloody bruise on one side but I think the squirrel would be just fine for cooking and eating.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 19th, 2011 at 4:03pm
the stone woud most definitley break some bones, probably ribs, puncture the lungs, or any gut, thereforeruining the meat, or it would mangle the animal so badly that there would be no sense in trieng to clean it.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by RJB on Mar 19th, 2011 at 5:10pm

paracordslinger wrote on Mar 19th, 2011 at 4:03pm:
the stone woud most definitley break some bones, probably ribs, puncture the lungs, or any gut, thereforeruining the meat, or it would mangle the animal so badly that there would be no sense in trieng to clean it.

It's much cleaner than a squirrel shot with a 12 gauge shotgun.  The bruise (which isn't all that bad anyway)-- that's what I call a natural tenderizer  :)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 19th, 2011 at 5:25pm
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER SHHOTING A SQUIRREL WITH A 12 GUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????? :o and there would be no bruise, it would be severely mangled!

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Masiakasaurus on Mar 19th, 2011 at 7:10pm

paracordslinger wrote on Mar 19th, 2011 at 5:25pm:
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER SHHOTING A SQUIRREL WITH A 12 GUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????? :o and there would be no bruise, it would be severely mangled!

The point is that 12 gauge is overkill, and when compared to slinging a stone the bruise from a slingstone isn't that bad.

FWIW, Chris really has hunted a lot with slings and is our reigning authority. If he says you need an egg sized stone, then it must work.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by RJB on Mar 19th, 2011 at 8:08pm

paracordslinger wrote on Mar 19th, 2011 at 5:25pm:
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER SHHOTING A SQUIRREL WITH A 12 GUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????? :o and there would be no bruise, it would be severely mangled!

Some people are bad shots, I guess.  Many people hunt all kinds of small game with 12 gauges.

Personally, I prefer a .22 rifle or handgun or a good air pellet rifle, but a sling works fine.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Dan on Mar 19th, 2011 at 8:08pm

paracordslinger wrote on Mar 19th, 2011 at 9:48am:
if an egg sized stone hits a squirrel, then it would probably ruin all the meat,therefore completley destroying the purpouse of a hunt! >:(



I am not sure if you are familliar with a deadfall trap but compared to that a slingstone will only damge some of the meat.

I know several people that used a 12ga and many people that use 20ga for squirrel hunting (not thier main preference just what they have) you just can't shoot them at really close distances.  

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 19th, 2011 at 8:15pm
deadfalls are not going 150 mph ;)  

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Dan on Mar 19th, 2011 at 8:26pm

paracordslinger wrote on Mar 19th, 2011 at 8:15pm:
deadfalls are not going 150 mph ;)  


Very true but if you follow the rule of a deadfall being 5 times the weight of your prey it will undoubtidly have enough force to crush an animal. Remember F = M x A  , so if you lack acelleration you just need more mass and it will get pretty close to balancing out.  

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 19th, 2011 at 8:29pm
also deadfalls are coming from usually 4-6 in for small animals. but a sling stome coming from a hundred yards will be more damaging, also it has a small point of impact, putting more pressure on certain bones.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Paleoarts on Mar 19th, 2011 at 8:30pm

paracordslinger wrote on Mar 19th, 2011 at 4:03pm:
the stone woud most definitley break some bones, probably ribs, puncture the lungs, or any gut, thereforeruining the meat, or it would mangle the animal so badly that there would be no sense in trieng to clean it.



uh, that's just not the case. i've taken dozens, if not hundreds of squirells (and rabbits) with my sling using stones that size and not once have i 'ruined' the meat. i think you are grossly underestimating the hardiness of small mammals. as a matter of fact, ammo any smaller than that and you're much more likely to simply injure the animal instead of killing or stunning it enough to retrieve it. i've hit jackrabbits full broadside at 20 yards with a stone that size and watched them run away like nothing happened.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 19th, 2011 at 8:41pm
well then you must be lobbing the stones at about a mile an hour ;D

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Paleoarts on Mar 19th, 2011 at 9:33pm
have you ever hunted with a sling? or hunted at all? or are you just saying what you think? because, if that's the case, then you're doing the newcommers here a disservice by giving your opinion on something you don't have any experience with. oh, and you can go to my youtube page (paleoarts) and see just how hard and accurate i do sling and then tell me if you think it's too weak or not.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 19th, 2011 at 9:44pm
i actually do hunt.  >:( i hunt pheasant, rabbit, deer, and squirrel. i cant even hit a 3x3 piece of paper with a  sling :-[

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Masiakasaurus on Mar 19th, 2011 at 11:14pm
We're getting a little out of hand, people.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 19th, 2011 at 11:22pm
:( :'( >:( ::) :-/ :( :( :( :( :'( >:(

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Mar 20th, 2011 at 12:35am

paracordslinger wrote on Mar 19th, 2011 at 5:25pm:
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER SHHOTING A SQUIRREL WITH A 12 GUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????? :o and there would be no bruise, it would be severely mangled!

A 12 gauge was all I ever hunted with back when I did hunt.  I got hundreds of squirrels and rabbits with my 12 gauge.  Quail and pheasant too.  I'd try for a head shot but even when that didn't happen and I got the body instead at worst I'd have to pick a few pellets out.  Besides that they were fine.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Mar 20th, 2011 at 1:50pm
I want to add that for smaller game just use a shell with smaller shot in it.  You don't need buckshot for quail.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Mar 20th, 2011 at 3:10pm
[quote author=paracordslinger link=1244988273/75#82 date=1300585472]i actually do hunt.  >:( i hunt pheasant, rabbit, deer, and squirrel. [quote]
please re-read

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by lone-stone on May 29th, 2011 at 9:15am
Hi I have been away from the forum for well over a year.
I know the power of slings,after making them from leather,and practicing.Even worried!But I went into "slingshots for a while"(cattys)
The thing is I want something more Authentic,more Powerfull and Pocket size! SO I have come back to slings!
I think there is a serious mental blockage concerning our faith in this ancient simple weapon or tool.If we have so much doubt about 'Accuracey' we will think it impossible to hit,,,,so probably wont. And think of the practice,,,,,children would have been taught from a young age...having more time to practice.
And as for hunting for food,,I thought i'd mention the fact that some American indians who had there bows and guns taken away from them on Resevations,,,Who needed meat,,,had to improvise with the Sling,, And have remarked on how they could not afford to miss!...Rabbits...
So this strengthens the hunting ability issue a little. [size=16][/size]
   I'm determined to get accurate,,,I did notice a great improvement over a couple of weeks or more.
Regards Lone-Stone

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by jauke.H on Jul 20th, 2011 at 6:40am
So what slinging style would be best for hunting?

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Arthur the great on Jul 20th, 2011 at 9:41am

lone-stone wrote on May 29th, 2011 at 9:15am:
And as for hunting for food,,I thought i'd mention the fact that some American indians who had there bows and guns taken away from them on Resevations,,,Who needed meat,,,had to improvise with the Sling,, And have remarked on how they could not afford to miss!...Rabbits...
So this strengthens the hunting ability issue a little. [size=16][/size]



just read the how to build and use the traditional apache sling by L.W Forscythe
he says a 1 1/2" to 2" rock can take down a medium size deer

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Masiakasaurus on Jul 20th, 2011 at 3:15pm
Chock that up to over enthusiasm rather than experience. The biggest you can hope to take with a sling is a Roe Deer or a Turkey, if you're really good.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Morphy on Jul 20th, 2011 at 3:28pm
I once slung a stone at a squirrel in a tree. I missed the squirrel but the stone went through the tree's trunk and killed a deer on the other side of the field. By the time I got there it was half way through butchering it for me and it insisted on packing it out for me.

I bought it a couple beers later that night and we have stayed in touch ever since. True story... All because I used the Apache style. Don't dis the Apache style Masi. It's here to stay.  :)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Dan on Jul 21st, 2011 at 8:00am

Masiakasaurus wrote on Jul 20th, 2011 at 3:15pm:
Chock that up to over enthusiasm rather than experience. The biggest you can hope to take with a sling is a Roe Deer or a Turkey, if you're really good.


Unless the animal you are slinging at is mostly dead or really old or somthing  ;), but I think the purpose of slinging at a deer was just to disable it long enough to finish it off, kind of like a bolo. Though I wouldn't sling at a 250lbd deer for my one safty, it is concievealbe that if you were an expert slinger you might be able to take a yearling or at most a small spike. But that should really only be done in emergencies or day dreaming in your head.

But the slings original and best purpose for hunting was for waterfowl so that way you don't lose an aroow and you don't need a whole lot of accuracy.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Morphy on Jul 21st, 2011 at 11:41pm


All kidding aside, I still contest that if you're an expert slinger and you are slinging heavy rocks at high speeds and you could hit a deer in the side of the head that you could kill it. I know a lot more experienced hunters disagree with me and I respect that. But until someone proves me otherwise I'm stubbornly holding to that view.  I can put an indention into a 3 inch thick piece of wood an inch deep and I have a relatively weak slinging arm. Surely a master with an awesome slinging arm could scramble some deer brains with a good shot, (just not with the Apache style).  ;D

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Masiakasaurus on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 1:12am
You could be right, but I never want to try. Rule of thumb to me is that if it's questionable and it involves hunting then it should just remain speculation. To me this is like hunting deer with a .22 caliber rifle. A few people claim that it's possible on paper if you have really good aim, but it strikes me as unnecessarily cruel even if it is possible. Call me a bleeding heart if you want, but that's how I see it.

FWIW, if I were to hunt with a sling I'd use Apache style to minimize the chances of whatever I'm hunting from being spooked during my wind up.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Morphy on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 1:26am
Yes, your right of course. Not bleeding heart at all. The fact of the matter is animals require respect and hunting a deer with a sling would unconscionable unless you were lost and literally starving to death.

Unfortunately I simply cannot get the Apache style to work like the Forsyth article talks about. That is probably my biggest disappointment in slinging. It's not for lack of trying. I have nothing but respect for those who make it work.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 9:49am
you can kill moose with 22s it isnt about how big the bullet, its about where that bullet goes. i would think that if i hit a deer in the head with a stone the size of an egg, i could kill it,or injure it so it could not move, giving me time to go in with my knife and slit him open.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 4:33pm
Contrary to popular opinion, I believe that you're right, paracordslinger.  I think it would take a very good, possibly lucky, shot, perhaps to the temple, but I know how hard I can sling.  If I were to hit, say, a 70 lb doe in the temple (again, a heck of a shot) if I didn't kill it outright it would at least be stunned so that I could slit it's throat or club it.  If a shot to the temple us too much to buy, a shot to the throat could certainly disable a medium sized deer.  Unless I was starving I wouldn't attempt such a thing, so it's pretty much a moot point, but I think that many here underestimate the power of an egg sized basalt stone with enough momentum to go 200 yards.  

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 7:26pm
form 50 meters, imagine a piece oflead, 10oz, hitting a deer in the eye, helluva shot!, what do you think it would do? :o

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Aussie on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 7:54pm

paracordslinger wrote on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 7:26pm:
form 50 meters, imagine a piece oflead, 10oz, hitting a deer in the eye, helluva shot!, what do you think it would do? :o


Hey, what do you call a deer that's been hit in the eye with a 10 oz piece of lead?............    No idea.  ;)

So what if the slinger followed up with a shot to the leg?   ..................      Still no idea.  ;D

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by xxkid123 on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 8:15pm
i've split 1 inch thick pine board with a fairly weak throw using a small stone. while it was a hit near a knot,it proves to me the potency of the sling. if you could get the right hit, then you could kill a dear. but then again, if you could get that hit then we wouldn't have all these elaborate aiming mechanisms for only decent accuracy on guns and compound bows..

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 8:52pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 7:54pm:

paracordslinger wrote on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 7:26pm:
form 50 meters, imagine a piece oflead, 10oz, hitting a deer in the eye, helluva shot!, what do you think it would do? :o


Hey, what do you call a deer that's been hit in the eye with a 10 oz piece of lead?............    No idea.  ;)

So what if the slinger followed up with a shot to the leg?   ..................      Still no idea.  ;D


i finally got it after a while....... no I- DEA  :D

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Bill Skinner on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 8:52pm
Xkid, I think you nailed the problem.  It is not that the sling and a large rock lack the power to kill, it is the slinger that lacks the accuracy to make the shot.  Bill

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by paracordslinger on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 9:22pm
xxxkid, you were right, but if the slinger was good enough, then kablammo! a no idea!

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Masiakasaurus on Jul 22nd, 2011 at 11:48pm
I agree with xxkid123 and Bill that it's mostly an accuracy problem.

Hunter talk, if you're squeamish don't read:
I don't doubt that a sling stone will break bones, even deer bones. What I doubt is that most people can catch a white tail deer after breaking one of its bones, or even puncturing a lung, without a pretty substantial blood trail to follow (which sling bullets don't do as well as broadhead arrows or bullets do). Deer bolt, fast. Even when they shouldn't still be standing and are about to die, deer can move faster than the average person IMHO. You'd probably have to hit the deer squarely in the eye, the gut away from the ribs (which would ruin a fair bit of meat if the intestines burst), or in the jugular in its neck (iffy) to kill the deer fast enough to have a chance at catching it and I think those shots are too difficult to expect to pull off. Odds are more likely that you sling at and hit the deer in the ribs and puncture a lung, it runs a hundred meters or so (in dense forest), it dies, and you spend the night searching for a deer carcass that may or may not ever be found. Same thing that happens when you shoot at deer with a .22, and definitely not worth the effort if you have any other choices available. I'd definitely focus on trying to find some other animal, like squirrel, turkey, or maybe even javelina (if I'm really desperate or have a death wish) which aren't as resilient as deer. And in the case of javelina, they don't spook as easily as deer do. You may have to learn to sling at something charging at you, but that just makes it more interesting. :P

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Aussie on Jul 23rd, 2011 at 12:03am

Morphy wrote on Jul 20th, 2011 at 3:28pm:
I once slung a stone at a squirrel in a tree. I missed the squirrel but the stone went through the tree's trunk and killed a deer on the other side of the field. By the time I got there it was half way through butchering it for me and it insisted on packing it out for me.

I bought it a couple beers later that night and we have stayed in touch ever since. True story... All because I used the Apache style. Don't dis the Apache style Masi. It's here to stay.  :)


One day when we're all in the happy hunting ground and we're out there practicing our Apache style, Grandfather's going to turn up and ask, "where did you guys learn such a weird way to sling? Have a tough time killing a rabbit with that!"

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Morphy on Jul 23rd, 2011 at 12:23am
LOL Right on Aussie... That Figure-7, the hanging figure-8 is my best estimation of what was actually being used by Grandfather. I base that on the fact that I've never seen anyone even come close to the type of power that Grandfather apparently had, and also because the Comanches were neighbors to the Apaches. And the figure-8 is the Comanche style of slinging. It just makes sense to me.

And lastly because I have tried every friggin length of sling from 8 inches to 50 inches and everything in between and I've practiced until my arm was literally so sore I could no longer even lift it above my head. And still, nothing. Not from me, not from any of the videos I've seen of it. Nothing.

I really want it to be true. Really. But I'm terribly skeptical at this point.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Dan on Jul 23rd, 2011 at 9:50am
Maki I think that slinging for large game "back in the day" would have been done with a group of several men say 2 - 5 and that if they all sling at the legs and take out at least 2 it should only take a few seconds to finish the deer off. Is it the most humane thing, no but back then you had to do what was neccesary in order for you and your family to survive.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Liberty dog on Jul 23rd, 2011 at 10:44am
im not sure a head shot is the  only way to take large game with the sling.   it would be the most humane method....but when hunting with your tribe ...or pack or whatever......a solid leg break to slow it down and wear it out could be all thats needed.
no its not the nicest way to hunt.....but maiming, then tracking down prey has been used since we started using weapons to get the advantage over faster, and stronger aminals.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Dan on Jul 24th, 2011 at 12:31pm

Liberty dog wrote on Jul 23rd, 2011 at 10:44am:
im not sure a head shot is the  only way to take large game with the sling.   it would be the most humane method....but when hunting with your tribe ...or pack or whatever......a solid leg break to slow it down and wear it out could be all thats needed.
no its not the nicest way to hunt.....but maiming, then tracking down prey has been used since we started using weapons to get the advantage over faster, and stronger aminals.


Exactly.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by sobieski on Aug 21st, 2011 at 10:53am
http://www.wilderness-survival-skills.com/hunting-sling.html

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Morphy on Aug 21st, 2011 at 12:55pm
The guy from that link says he dropped a 60 pound young boar that was charging him. Says the shot broke his collar bone, he went down squealing and flopping around and was dispatched by a friend wielding a bowie knife. He says after contacting the ranger that he was told the kill was a legal one, I'm assuming because it was charging them and they took it back to camp and butchered it.

It's sometimes tough to know if anything you read is true or not but interesting all the same.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Dan on Aug 21st, 2011 at 1:30pm
I have heard this story the same way in many place so I assume it is mostly true. Hogs are often hunted with just a knife anyway however I would think that it is concievable but as I think the author states ill adviced. But It would probably work pretty well on small game if it works on a hog.  :)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Rat Man on Aug 21st, 2011 at 2:19pm
I'm not going to call anyone a liar, but hitting a small boar that was charging full speed at you would be one heck of a great shot.  It's a bit hard to swallow. I have no doubt that a sling stone could bring down a 60 lb animal, but a shot like the one described?  I dunno.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Aussie on Aug 21st, 2011 at 8:17pm

Rat Man wrote on Aug 21st, 2011 at 2:19pm:
I'm not going to call anyone a liar, but hitting a small boar that was charging full speed at you would be one heck of a great shot.  It's a bit hard to swallow. I have no doubt that a sling stone could bring down a 60 lb animal, but a shot like the one described?  I dunno.


Vivid imagination. Trouble is with all this survivalist stuff is that someone is going his life someday by wasting his time and strength trying to make a "survival" sling instead of getting himself rescued.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by bigkahuna on Aug 21st, 2011 at 8:26pm
Better to spend your time making a shelter, starting a fire and finding drinking water.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Bill Skinner on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 7:47pm
As far as hunting hogs with just a knife...don't forget the pack of dogs that bayed the hog and the bulldog that has him by the nose holding him steady while our hero rushes in and stabs the hog.  

A 60 pound hog, killed with a sling while charging?  Why didn't he just wait and then kick him?  The little pig wouldn't have gotten back up very quickly after that either.  They aren't that tough when they are that size.  We used to keep hogs when I was younger, when I would go feed, they would swarm me.  One slammed into me and I kicked him.  Broke a front leg and some ribs, we ate that one early.  

FWIW, this winter, I plan to try small game hunting with a pouch of slightly larger than a golf ball clay glandes and a sling about 2/3rds of a meter long.
I figure that I will miss a lot and learn a lot.  I don't really think the squirrels and rabbits are going to be in any great danger, on the other hand, they aren't completely safe, either.  Bill

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by kuggur slingdog on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 7:59pm

Morphy wrote on Aug 21st, 2011 at 12:55pm:
The guy from that link says he dropped a 60 pound young boar that was charging him. Says the shot broke his collar bone, he went down squealing and flopping around and was dispatched by a friend wielding a bowie knife. He says after contacting the ranger that he was told the kill was a legal one, I'm assuming because it was charging them and they took it back to camp and butchered it.

It's sometimes tough to know if anything you read is true or not but interesting all the same.


I can help you out of this dream; This lying bugger doesn´t know much about animal anatomy. Swines (just like horses cats and dogs) don´t have collar bones ;D

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 8:12pm

wrote on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 7:59pm:

Morphy wrote on Aug 21st, 2011 at 12:55pm:
The guy from that link says he dropped a 60 pound young boar that was charging him. Says the shot broke his collar bone, he went down squealing and flopping around and was dispatched by a friend wielding a bowie knife. He says after contacting the ranger that he was told the kill was a legal one, I'm assuming because it was charging them and they took it back to camp and butchered it.

It's sometimes tough to know if anything you read is true or not but interesting all the same.


I can help you out of this dream; This lying bugger doesn´t know much about animal anatomy. Swines (just like horses cats and dogs) don´t have collar bones ;D

Depends on where he lives. Around the southern united states wild peccaries are also called javelinas or hogs colloquially. Javelinas have very small clavicles, though I imagine that the author is talking about the shoulder blade. They're long and thing in javelinas, and look like human collar bones.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by bigkahuna on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 8:28pm

Bill Skinner wrote on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 7:47pm:
As far as hunting hogs with just a knife...don't forget the pack of dogs that bayed the hog and the bulldog that has him by the nose holding him steady while our hero rushes in and stabs the hog.  

A 60 pound hog, killed with a sling while charging?  Why didn't he just wait and then kick him?  The little pig wouldn't have gotten back up very quickly after that either.  They aren't that tough when they are that size.  We used to keep hogs when I was younger, when I would go feed, they would swarm me.  One slammed into me and I kicked him.  Broke a front leg and some ribs, we ate that one early.  

FWIW, this winter, I plan to try small game hunting with a pouch of slightly larger than a golf ball clay glandes and a sling about 2/3rds of a meter long.
I figure that I will miss a lot and learn a lot.  I don't really think the squirrels and rabbits are going to be in any great danger, on the other hand, they aren't completely safe, either.  Bill
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       I'd say it's about an even match.

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by kuggur slingdog on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 8:38pm

Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 8:12pm:

wrote on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 7:59pm:
I can help you out of this dream; This lying bugger doesn´t know much about animal anatomy. Swines (just like horses cats and dogs) don´t have collar bones ;D

Depends on where he lives. Around the southern united states wild peccaries are also called javelinas or hogs colloquially. Javelinas have very small clavicles, though I imagine that the author is talking about the shoulder blade. They're long and thing in javelinas, and look like human collar bones.

I thought the wild boar was anatomically comparable to a pig, but you might be right.
I still call bullsh*t on the story though.... ;)

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 22nd, 2011 at 8:39pm
Oh, I do too. Earlier in this thread I mad a joke about slinging at a charging javelina because I don't think it's very practical. It may be possible, but any sane person would find a tree and start climbing.

American wild boars aren't necessarily the same as European wild boars. Most are escaped imported pigs that went feral, but in the Southwestern US and all throughout South America "wild boars" are an unrelated species closer to rodents that only look like wild boar.

Peccary

Boar

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Bill Skinner on Aug 23rd, 2011 at 1:18pm
That't the first boarhog with t*ts that I 've ever seen.  Bill

Title: Re: Hunting
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 23rd, 2011 at 1:58pm

Bill Skinner wrote on Aug 23rd, 2011 at 1:18pm:
That't the first boarhog with t*ts that I 've ever seen.  Bill

Boars must have them, otherwise there wouldn't be the phrase "useless as t*ts on a boarhog." ;D All joking aside, that's a wild boar sow (boar means male domesticated pig, but applies to all wild pigs); though, because of the t*ts and the missing tusks.

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