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Message started by Et Cetera on Apr 24th, 2009 at 4:31pm

Title: Sling as a club?
Post by Et Cetera on Apr 24th, 2009 at 4:31pm
I forgot where I read/heard this, but it was something along the lines of using a loaded sling as a club if you are closer to the target. Is this historically realistic? Or was it just an idea that someone had?

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by kuggur slingdog on Apr 24th, 2009 at 5:43pm
Nah, stupid idea, it would make a very clumsy weapon against any well armed footsoldier. If you plan on doing battle bring adequate side arms (it´s not as if you would get tired of hauling your sling around)

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by castanon93 on Apr 24th, 2009 at 6:21pm
i agree with Kuggur slingdog, i think just a stick you find on the ground or a large rock could be used more effectively as a melee weapon than a sling. hence i would recommend a retreat before facing any kind of melee infantry. also the slingers were pretty light infantry, so it should be pretty easy to escape armored soldiers.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by castanon93 on Apr 24th, 2009 at 6:22pm
i mean, retreating a few hundred feet and start slinging again.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Camo-sling on Apr 24th, 2009 at 8:18pm
A slinger flailing his sling around wouldnt have a chance against a swordsmen etc.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Bikewer on Apr 24th, 2009 at 9:13pm
At best, it would be similar to a manriki in effect; though likely the stone or glandes would fly out at impact...

Maybe a one-shot thing, especially in bad light conditions.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Liberty dog on Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:38pm
well , if you get yourself forced into a corner i supose you could sling untill the last minute, then use it once like a club. but after that you had better have a knife or what ever handy, cause then  your hip deep in poo. :o

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Camo-sling on Apr 25th, 2009 at 2:16am
i woulnt even think about using the sling as a club! I would drop the sling and reach for a short sword.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Thearos on Apr 25th, 2009 at 5:22am
Maybe you could grab both ends of the sling, if it's sturdy enough, and use it two-fisted like one fights with a belt (use it to entangle, parry and deflect, aim for a snap under the chin, hope for a strangle)-- but against an armoured,  heavily armed fighter with edged weapon, blunt impact weapon, or polearm ? Hmm.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Camo-sling on Apr 25th, 2009 at 5:45am
thats quite possible, if faced with an inexperienced person using a knife, you may be able to entangle the wrist or even disarm the enemy. With enough practice it seems highly possible. This reminds me of Jacky Chan movies, he often disarms knifes and such with a jacket, similar to a sling.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Fundibularius on Apr 25th, 2009 at 7:23am
It wasn't not just because of folklore that David is described as carrying a staff in addition to his sling. As a shepherd, he knew that the sling would be rather useless when he failed to hit a predator at distance and it got within claw or paw reach. It was then that he probably would have used the staff to try to keep at least a minimum distance between himself and the animal (or, maybe, human thief). The staff may have even been pointed at one end. Of course, a lance or spear or sword would have been better, but these were comparatively expensive. I'm sure he also carried a knife as a last option, as every man or boy in that time and others. Why would he have taken his staff into the duel with Goliath if not as a possible second weapon? For a quick getaway after missing Goliath's vulnerable spot, it would have only been an obstacle.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Camo-sling on Apr 25th, 2009 at 8:19am

Fundibularius wrote on Apr 25th, 2009 at 7:23am:
It wasn't not just because of folklore that David is described as carrying a staff in addition to his sling. As a shepherd, he knew that the sling would be rather useless when he failed to hit a predator at distance and it got within claw or paw reach. It was then that he probably would have used the staff to try to keep at least a minimum distance between himself and the animal (or, maybe, human thief). The staff may have even been pointed at one end. Of course, a lance or spear or sword would have been better, but these were comparatively expensive. I'm sure he also carried a knife as a last option, as every man or boy in that time and others. Why would he have taken his staff into the duel with Goliath if not as a possible second weapon? For a quick getaway after missing Goliath's vulnerable spot, it would have only been an obstacle.


SPOT ON!

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 25th, 2009 at 11:14am

Quote:
Nah, stupid idea, it would make a very clumsy weapon against any well armed footsoldier

Actually it would make a very good weapon against a well armed foot soldier.
It will strike over and behind a shield, can be used to entangle a sword or sword arm and strike a hard blow against the arm at the same time.

It might not have been the close quarters weapon of choice, but  a flexible club can be a very effective weapon.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by castanon93 on Apr 25th, 2009 at 11:48am

Curious Aardvark wrote on Apr 25th, 2009 at 11:14am:

Quote:
Nah, stupid idea, it would make a very clumsy weapon against any well armed footsoldier

Actually it would make a very good weapon against a well armed foot soldier.
It will strike over and behind a shield, can be used to entangle a sword or sword arm and strike a hard blow against the arm at the same time.

It might not have been the close quarters weapon of choice, but  a flexible club can be a very effective weapon.


if you want a flexible club, get a flail ;)

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by mrboss on Apr 25th, 2009 at 1:10pm
In some cases it would be good to use it as a club if somone was behind a sheild. But since your close enough to the enemy, you might as well shoot him with it because its usually really easy to sling a rock at somone at point-blank range.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Thomas on Apr 25th, 2009 at 3:22pm
There was something about this on the forum recently. I think the reference meant is, if you wonder how much deadly force a sling is capable of, imagine swinging something akin to a “slungshot” of the same length and mass against an adversary or a test object, simple as that.            

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Fundibularius on Apr 25th, 2009 at 4:12pm
I can only imagine a sling used as club in a very desperate situation when there is really no other option left, like suddenly being attacked at very short range, and its effect then would not differ too much from that of a blow with a lady's handbag  :o - given that you have the time to load your sling at all. In battle, every half-trained shielded enemy footsoldier with a lance or a sword would be able to fend your first blow off and go for your entrails while you are still trying to put your sling back into starting position. Flails, scourges or bullwhips may have a more devastating effect, but they are just as slow to handle. That's why they were never seriously used for close combat in regular armies.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by mrboss on Apr 25th, 2009 at 4:17pm
If no ammo is in sight, you can also strangle them with it.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Fundibularius on Apr 25th, 2009 at 4:29pm
Or set up a snare with it... ;)

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Woonilsra on Apr 25th, 2009 at 6:00pm
I think it would be possible but not the best idea.
as others have said, sling v sword, not so great for the sling.
A bunch of you guys said maybe it would wrap around the shield, etc, and that sounds very plausible,
but what if the soldier just thrust his weapon at you? your done.
If you must use a sling, maybe trying to load it and knock them over by twisting up their legs would be
effective, then strike when the enemy is down. Keep a BIG rock on you, close in You'd need it.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Et Cetera on Apr 25th, 2009 at 9:10pm
It certainly wouldn't be the ideal weapon, but I think it would work if you got yourself in a pickle. Obviously a sword or a flail would be better, but would you have enough time to grab another weapon if the enemy is that close?

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Camo-sling on Apr 25th, 2009 at 9:53pm
you would be able to draw a sword but it depends how far you see the enemy running towards you. If your sheath is smooth that is..

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Liberty dog on Apr 25th, 2009 at 11:20pm
Remember, you don't have to out run the bad man with the sword. You only have to out run the slinger next to you.

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by castanon93 on Apr 26th, 2009 at 8:14pm

Liberty dog wrote on Apr 25th, 2009 at 11:20pm:
Remember, you don't have to out run the bad man with the sword. You only have to out run the slinger next to you.


lol

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Rat Man on Apr 27th, 2009 at 8:23pm
I have thought about this scenario myself.  Let's say it's an emergency situation where you're being rushed by your target.  You think you can get off a fast shot but at the last instant your attacker is too close, so you just swing the sling with the fist sized rock in it and clobber him as a one time hitter.  If it worked, stomp the crap out of him and if it didn't, run like hell!
  Of course, I don't mean I'd ever do such a thing.  I only mean it in theoretical terms as related to the overall effectiveness of the weapon.  

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by Camo-sling on Apr 28th, 2009 at 12:39am
ratman, after that, start running away throwing rock after rock by hand behind you!

Title: Re: Sling as a club?
Post by timann on Apr 28th, 2009 at 1:56pm
I just tried it with a split pouch and a leather pouch sling, a loaded sling can be instantly be transformed into a slung-shot by making an overhand knot with the cords.  Something a ancient, desperate slinger could do when the enemy warriors with swords and spears surround him.  
He had nothing to loose by doing it, he`d be dead in a minute, anyway :D
timann

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