I thought it fitting we start a new thread that explores the concepts of sling evolution.Any and all ideas are fair game,and no idea is blasphemous. The designs here could include,but not be limited to,the compound sling,the semiautomatic self loading sling,the hand held mini-trebuchets that are o-so-popular here in Florida,the multishot slings used predominately for hog hunting,the fully automatic centrifugal loaders(the neoprene ones are ok here,but the spring design is too played out),the double-barreled sling,the atl-sling multifire is always fun,the piggyback staff-sling can create hours of entertainment,the captive release cord sling,the self destructive sling,or,last but not least,the venerable but less reliable Chinese yo-yo sling.

   Let's shake the foundations and push the envelope and go where no man has gone before,etc.etc.


 Ideas?

          Brett

I am liking the Hoopak staff sling idea, where the retention and release points are side by side on the arms of a Y shaped end. This gives a clean rifle spin release every time. You would need a fairly deep hook on the release arm for the axis to be aligned right otherwise the projectile would fly nose high.

currently working on a quantum sling.
The missile reaches it's destination without passing through the space inbetween sling and target.

The main problem is keeping the darn photons still while i load them in the pouch ;-)
so far haven't managed to use anything larger, hoping to work on up to protons eventually.

Those pesky molecules, so hard to get to cooperate sometimes aren't they?  

Exactly!!The quantum leap portal sling.We'll have to keep an eye on the Hadron collider.

 The design I was thinking of is a bit simpler.How about an atl-sling.It would consist of a woomera thrown dart that had a projectile that engaged by propulsion method upon impact of the spearhead.You could use surgical tubing like the sling shot or crossbow that would remain tight during flight,and engage a second dart or projectile.It would resemble a torpedo,but in the air.The old Confederate sub that was sunken and raised off the Carolina coast(S.S. Hunley) had the first torpedo.It would literally ram the enemy ship with the nose of the sub,damaging the enemy ship badly with its reinforced  harpoon device.The Hunley would then reverse engine("All men,pedal backwards full throttle!!!!!!!!!!!!!)and leave the wounded vessel with a barrel of dynamite that would worsen the hole and hopefully sink the ship.Sadly for the Hunley and its doomed crew,the only successful attack on The Houstatanic took the Hunley and crew with her to Davey Jones' Locker.Explosives;;;;;;FUN!!!

if we would make a sling with length of r=c/(2*3.14) and spin it at 60 revs per min then the pouch would reach the c - speed of light - our own stone age primitive hadron collider 8-)
and if we make it spin at a rate of 100 hertz we would only need 477.5 km long sling
Who's with me to build the stone age hadron collider :D

I always wanted to sling a shotgun shell on the end of a dowel rod with a tack on it. pretty much what jax is thinking.

Last night on the Weapon Masters they tested atlatls including some that had power heads like this.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=WkYwAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:3878788&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=1&as_miny_ap=2008&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2008&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=2008&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2008

Alright, guys, I got it! I just came up with this while I was manning the desk here at work! It's a staff atlatl. Picture a staff sling, about 4-6 feet long, but instead of the tapered end of a staff sling to facilitate release of a sling loop, you'd have a hook or spur permanently affixed to launch a dart two handed. About say, 3 feet down the shaft there would be a dart rest with a groove cut deeply into it so the dart would rest without having to be held on with the hands, and the casting motion would just be the typical staff sling type cast. Physics should do the rest. Weightstones may be optional, but this idea seems like it could have some merit. Now, I just have to have time to make one and test it. I think I know what I'm doing on Friday...
                                                                                 
                            Y                                           /\
[====================================]
                                            ####
[== shaft
Y dart rest
/\ dart spur (will be more horizontal on the prototype)
###  weightstone

Thomas wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 5:31pm:

Last night on the Weapon Masters they tested atlatls including some that had power heads like this. http://www.google.com/patents?id=WkYwAAAAEBAJ&dq=patent:3878788&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=1&as_miny_ap=2008&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2008&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=2008&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2008

And there was my epiphany moment. Its so easy when someone else makes it and patents it first only different.

Thanks Thomas

How about the Maffball sling, !! and for those of you who are not familiar with the sport of maffball, it's simple really just soak a toilet roll in paraffin and set light to it and then play as with a football, it is usually played at night after to much alcohol has been consumed normally by members of the Goth Community on the beach at Whitby, If you go on YouTube and search for Maffball you should get several hits, it is sometimes played in just underpants and before you ask there are no rules except that if you catch fire it is your own fault.
I was at the last event and I have made a Maffball sling that resists Fire , bog rolls(i.e Maffballs) the sling is made from Springs, chain, Bowden wire and good old fashioned string, I will take a couple of pictures tomorrow an post them for you to have a chuckle at. I have used it a couple of times with differing degrees of success, my son tried it and managed to wrap it round his head with quite comical results apparently.
Dave ;D

Thats weird, I've been to WGW loads of times and never once seen or heard of Maffball! Are you a Whitby local or a dirty goff?

Dirty Old Goth this usually happens on the Monday night after the Beach party

I'm usually off home on the Monday which explains why I've never seen it. Are you going next April? We could go for a chuck off the harbour wall :)

How about a throwing star sling?  It would have to have a pouch made of something rather durable.

I wonder how much range and accuracy you could get out of the average shuriken.

Panday wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 3:40am:

How about a throwing star sling?  It would have to have a pouch made of something rather durable. I wonder how much range and accuracy you could get out of the average shuriken.

That would be pretty easy to do. You make a very narrow pouch with high semicircular sides. The release cord is attached offset to one side so the shuriken rolls out past it. You would probably want to extend one of the side of the pouch on the retention side to make a kind of tailfin to make sure it orients edge first.

Picture of the Maffball sling the tiles are 9inches square to give an idea of size.

---

That contraption looks very impessive, raises the question what on earth is a maffbal ?
Oh wait just went back to read the previous posts, that does not sound like healthy ammo, did you actually try it out, the sling looks rather unscorched....

That spring pouch is pure genius!Morningstar,the tailfin idea is where it's at.I'm rigging one on my newest baseball sling,as my dad has been threatening to install one for a while.I think he may have built one with the fin already,can't remember if I used it.

 Aussie,in response to your questions regarding Thomas' "Upset Pouch" design(Pictures thread):




"Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #399 - Nov 13th, 2008, 7:55am Quote
Greetings Brett,

The new design looks great! It looks as if the release will be really fast and unimpeded. Have you tried it with irregular shaped stones? Do you think there is any danger of it snagging? Can you control the orientation of the pouch on release and does it matter?

I suppose the really burning question is does it give substantially better performance than a conventional sling of similar length?

Regards,

Aussie"

I did try the golf ball sling with some beautiful Oregon coast smooth marble like stones that litter the sand there.They fit in the pouch nice,but to your second question,they snagged a few times.Danger!I can't control the pouch orientation,but when I did get nearly 230 yards,with my caveman pirouette and a golf ball,the balls would just go out and up.Every golf ball I've ever slung has curved to the right.And to answer your last question,the "upset pouch" has given me an increase in performance.My baseball average has gone from 445',to nearly 500'.The sling length is @ 55".My golf ball average has increased from 400' up to nearly 600'!!!! That is substantial,although other factors weigh in.The sling I was getting the longest casts with was the 6-hole trebuchet pouch that CA made me,and its' length was just under 40".The latest sling is right at 43",and is long enough I can use my straight arm pirouette,and short enough to bring that thing around in more of an overhand release,which would explain the lack of crazy spin.It is possible that the pouch is orienting itself without the aid of the tail fin.

CA,I answered the spin question already;were they curving left?I thought they always went right.The casts in the video clip were with my attempt at Larry Bray's style,and the balls always curve for me with that cast.Your birthday is near,and your bag of baseballs are still sitting here in my house.With a bit of luck you'll receive them for the holidays,and maybe Santa will throw in a little something extra,if you behave.It won't take as long as Big Kahunas Spring Equinox delivery. ;D


 Jeffrey,these slings are actually much simpler than a traditional sling.The release cord doesn't leave!!

 And finally Aussie,I wouldn't recommend building something like this without the captive release.The strings would get in the way,no?

 

             Brett

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2008 at 8:19am:

That contraption looks very impressive, raises the question what on earth is a maffbal ? Oh wait just went back to read the previous posts, that does not sound like healthy ammo, did you actually try it out, the sling looks rather unscorched....

The Sling was used if you look closely at the picture the chain is slightly darker where it got smoked the method is Load , Light, Lob.
You can tell when its ready to lob as the hairs on your hand start to smell crispy, the major problem with it is that it goes so fast that you put the Maffball out IE it gets blown out , but this is not insurmountable.
We might be having a test fire over the weekend so I will let you know what happens.
Dave

Can a compound staff sling be built with more advantage than the compound sling like Yurek built?

These slings are performing beautifully.I now throw golf balls to 700' consistently,and with the Larry Bray style throw the pouch seems to give a backspin 90% of the time.The orientation on release is like a split finger.Maybe the swivels are doing this for me,but I have been paying more attention to the way my palm is facing(skyward)on release.


      Brett

---

very nice slings jax
I was just rigging up a giant sling to hurl the hadron collider lol

That sling reminds me of an exercise device.  
Your building skills are impresive.

Make sure to bring your video camera to the test. There are too few videos about incendiaries.  

Rockman,

 I did not build these slings,they were built by my father,Thomas.He has been slinging for a while...actually he's a genius.


               Brett

wrote on Feb 17^th, 2009 at 7:55pm:

Rockman,  I did not build these slings,they were built by my father,Thomas.He has been slinging for a while...actually he's a genius.                Brett

I'll second that one.  The one Brett sent me to play with was amazing.  The only problem I had with it was trying to adapt my throwing style to using it since the release was near instantanious... quite a few very high shots resulted.

Slings, regardless of design are simple compared to other projectile weapons.
The slinger and his technique are the complex components
Genius? I’ve only made some minor changes to other people’s ideas and then combined them together somewhat.

For now, the release hook slings have been abandoned in favor of the “tip up through the loop type”.
“The traditional fly out” release cord will always be popular as it represents what a sling should look like. All slinging distance world records have been set using traditional retention and release cords.

The captive release cord style I have settled on for the last few years has no inherent power advantage over traditional slings as long as the latter’s pouch and release cord stay clear of the ammo.

The two items that always needed improvement are how to consistently control spin and pouch orientation with long slings and narrow grip. The spin thing is a tough nut to crack. The person who solves this is a true genius.

When I was a kid, a stone that hummed through the air caused me to elicit a bad word. Now that was usually an irregular shaped rock, the ones that really deceive are nicely shaped and don’t hum out-- DUMMY!

---

The sling pouch in the photo has a traditional release cord,correct?Does the ball pass through the center every time?

The cord is captive and so far due to the weather, snow/ice balls have gone through the release loop as intended.

My dad hand delivered some fantastic new slings with unusual designs.The one on the left has a detachable wing.You can sling a baseball or like sized orb with a back spin or turn it 90 degrees to produce a spiral.The sling on the right is named the cicada,and is designed for golf balls.We used both yesterday with fantastic results.I threw several golfballs out of the field and above the treeline(estimated-700').Both slings are "Thomas non-traditional captive release cords".

           Brett

---

And...

---

...other designs by Thomas,and a British beauty.

---

The adjustable plastic fin is genius. I might well steal the extended pouch fin idea for my own experiments :-)

how about a sling that does not look like a sling? maybe a neck tie, etc.. i recently had a regular one confiscated by the police, when they stopped me walking home drunk from a bar.. and they left me my knives! :o

Disguise it as say a carry strap on a bag, camera case, etc.

so if im correct captive release means you do nt release the cords but the ball flys out on its own yes?

well... basically, if you've been on the pictures thing and seen thomas's sling hand thing, you'll see that he does release it, but the retention cord just drops down a few inches to tip it out, so no, you do need to release, but the cord itself doesn't splay to the side or something.

adsi wrote on May 28^th, 2009 at 12:55pm:

so if im correct captive release means you do nt release the cords but the ball flys out on its own yes?

adsi

The release cord moves a limited distance until it is stopped in a number of possible ways. Mine uses a short length of material connecting the retention and release cords, no rocket science here.  

The cords show clearly on reply #719,#720,#721 on the following link.

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172017416/705

and has anyone made a sling that can ( please don't be too harsh, i have nearly no idea what i'm talking about, but it does seem reasonable) that can reduce all the energy of the retention cord and transfer it ALL to the stone, in which the retention cord would probably drift around, but not with it's deadly crack.




good sides of this, the retention cord won't be hitting anyone and sending them to the ground for a few seconds (my friend was rolling over in agony from it), and the stone would get a lot more power

xxkid123 wrote on May 28^th, 2009 at 5:08pm:

good sides of this, the retention cord won't be hitting anyone and sending them to the ground for a few seconds (my friend was rolling over in agony from it), and the stone would get a lot more power

Are you possibly referring to the release cord?

What I think he's trying to say is the same concept as your slings.I have been throwing baseballs with Thomas' captive release slings at 3500'+ here in El Paso,Texas,and although the slings are performing well,I don't think the elevation has improved my distance.

 P.S.  Can I get slings delivered to my hotel?

                Brett

Curious Aardvark wrote on Nov 19^th, 2008 at 6:54am:

currently working on a quantum sling. The missile reaches it's destination without passing through the space inbetween sling and target. The main problem is keeping the darn photons still while i load them in the pouch ;-) so far haven't managed to use anything larger, hoping to work on up to protons eventually.

  Your problem, as with most homo sapiens, is that you sling (and think) in three dimensions.  Once you learn to sling in the fourth dimension most of your quantum sling problems will be solved.  Photons are particularly difficult to work with due to their incredible speed but in the fourth dimension, where you've dealt with problem of time in general, they're easier to use.  Another choice would be slinging in various parallel universes, but this can get complicated, even for me.  Protrons would be much easier to use.

ok thank you

kellymcdman wrote on Mar 18^th, 2009 at 4:26am:

how about a sling that does not look like a sling? maybe a neck tie, etc.. i recently had a regular one confiscated by the police, when they stopped me walking home drunk from a bar.. and they left me my knives! :o

make a sling belt. Theres a few pictures around the joint.

wrote on May 28^th, 2009 at 6:08pm:

What I think he's trying to say is the same concept as your slings.I have been throwing baseballs with Thomas' captive release slings at 3500'+ here in El Paso,Texas,and although the slings are performing well,I don't think the elevation has improved my distance.  P.S.  Can I get slings delivered to my hotel?                 Brett

Lol, if slings were really able to go that far id be saying amen!

But for real, do those captive release slings improve distance? Cause id prolly buy or make one if they do.

Thomas wrote on May 28^th, 2009 at 5:51pm:

xxkid123 wrote on May 28th, 2009 at 5:08pm: good sides of this, the retention cord won't be hitting anyone and sending them to the ground for a few seconds (my friend was rolling over in agony from it), and the stone would get a lot more power Are you possibly referring to the release cord?

aren't those the same thing (release cord retention cord)? either way yes

No. 'Release', means to let go. 'Retain', means to keep, ie. the cord you don't let go.

Basically you have the finger loop/wrist loop/something you hold on to, the retention cord comes out from there, it connects(or splits into) the pouch, and the cord on the other side of the pouch is the release cord.

Does anyone here use an asymmetric sling pouch? I already know about you Jax, and bravo on your family's designs, but who else?

Masiakasaurus wrote on Jun 1^st, 2009 at 9:52am:

Does anyone here use an asymmetric sling pouch? I already know about you Jax, and bravo on your family's designs, but who else?

i sometimes do, my duct tape pouch is asymmetrical, but only in the sense that i cant make it perfectly equal, it still works though

Hello Thomas,

 Any new designs in the works?How about a pic?Maybe the caulk tube bucket?

          Respectfully,

                   Brett

My Dad sent me some cool new slings,and I thought ya'll might like to check them out.The baseball slings are untested(by me),but the shorter golf ball sling works well,and the caulk tube bucket sent both golf balls and misshapen rocks out at a dizzying speed.The caulk tube bucket boasts a small tube near the rear to keep things from sliding out on the windup.

All of the slings have "Thomas' non-traditional captive release mechanism".The handles are all fairly similar,so you can change them out quickly with the swivel snaps.

Thank you Dad!!

                         Brett

The caulk tube bucket...

---

A close up...

---

...and...

---

the grips...

---

pouches...

---

ready for action!

---

These slings are impressive!!I've been throwing golf balls with the caulk tube bucket,and I can't believe how well it works.The rocks I used just slid right on out.Thanks again,Thomas.

 I recommend to all slingers;try out some of these designs,and you will start to notice improvement in your style,performance and velocity.I think I'm finished with the traditional sling.


            Brett

 Your dad is always coming up with something new and cool isn't he?  I like the caulk tube one!

BrianGrubbs wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2009 at 7:42am:

Your dad is always coming up with something new and cool isn't he?  I like the caulk tube one!

Agree! I imagine the caulk tube would release the projectile with very little spin on it as it merely slides out as the tube is inverted. Should give good results with poor quality stones?

Exactly ;)

Aussie wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2009 at 6:57pm:

BrianGrubbs wrote on Jul 2nd, 2009 at 7:42am:  Your dad is always coming up with something new and cool isn't he?  I like the caulk tube one! Agree! I imagine the caulk tube would release the projectile with very little spin on it as it merely slides out as the tube is inverted. Should give good results with poor quality stones?

That’s what I call them, slide out pouches. The intent is to eliminate most spin from irregular objects and also contain golf balls perfectly. This particular caulk tube one has a tapered section removed from the bottom that allows it to stretch around slightly larger ammo. As Jax has noted the rear is blocked by a short transverse plastic tube which contains the retention attachment.            

Who's going to make the triggered staff sling?

Do you mean a staff sling with a manually released cord? I have a broom handle waiting for just this project :)

I was thinking about the surf casting thread,and I mentioned it there,but after some thought I realized that it could be built.You could pendulum cast like the surf caster dude video and really get a golf ball or rock out there.I was thinking more along the lines of a flexible piece of fiberglass,but thicker than a fishing pole.The broom handle won't have the flex or length.

           Brett

I successfully built and tested my triggered staff sling today.Currently it is a 24" sling mounted on a 5-10' adjustable fiberglass pole from an old branch trimmer from my bottomless inventory.The hollow pole is approximately 1" diameter for the top half,and the bottom half is about 1 1/4".The sling itself is one of Thomas' non-traditional golf ball slings with an extension of about 9'.I installed an eyelet up top for the release cord to pass through nicely.

  The two throws I attempted were in front of my house,with random cars coming and going.The first one went in the dirt,although the speed at which it came out of the pouch really surprised me.The second throw went a whole city block with a flick of wrist,and landed safely(thank God) in the church soccer field adjacent.

 With some adjustments and a bigger field with no obstructions,I believe I'll be able to throw 700'+(which is my range with a 40" sling).

     Brett

P.S. I'll post pics and videos ASAP

Awesome!

Today I went(alone :()and tested my triggered staff sling,and it was fun!I think it's the first time I've used one properly.I added one foot on to the retention side,along with a few eyelets on the staff,to control the massive amount of release cord,and finished my tuneup with a few 1" wooden craft balls that limited the movement of the pouch.It worked well and by the time I was warmed up I sent a few out to the 400' range.That to me was disappointing because the caulk tube and the cicada pouches provided much more hang time and a range around 600'.Still,it was fun.The staff is obviously too long(10'),and with the sling around 36" I wasn't able to generate the speed I was looking for.Before I modify/dismantle it I will get some pics and video.Maybe I should set it up for baseballs?

            Brett

Man at that size you are practicually a walking trebuchet

A video would be fun.  Myself, I have mostly used a less than 5" staff and a rather short leather/parcord sling loaded with snow balls, so the triggered surf staff baseball sling would be interesting.
The need for some lenght/weight adjustment on your project is to be expected, in the end the result should be impressive.
timann

Here's a pic.I can't figure out my video.You can see the trigger in my hand.

---

that device is rather ingenious id love one of them

700 yards
that means you top mr boss

Now that`s a staff sling.  I was thinking of fishing rods tonight, and realice they need to be flexed by the lure to work as supposed.  
Wich means your ammo should be heavy enough to flex the glass fibre rod, else it could as easily be a broom handle ;)
The trigger construction is simple and clever, with the staff sling it requires a bit of practice to get the  timing right, I guess.
timann

Timann,

 The eyelet by the trigger keeps the balls from moving too far either way,thereby keeping the pouch from opening/closing too much.It only took 2 casts to figure out the timing of release.I agree with you,the pole is too long and too rigid to take advantage of the surfcasting type of flex I was looking for.I will try it with a baseball pouch and see if I can build a nice weight/length/flex ratio.

 Adsi,

 Reread all posts,including your own.

            Brett

adsi wrote on Jul 16^th, 2009 at 2:07pm:

that device is rather ingenious id love one of them 700 yards that means you top mr boss

Its 700 feet, there no way a steff sling is going to out range a sling.

Mr. Boss wrote on Jul 16^th, 2009 at 7:13pm:

adsi wrote on Jul 16th, 2009 at 2:07pm: that device is rather ingenious id love one of them 700 yards that means you top mr boss Its 700 feet, there no way a steff sling is going to out range a sling.

and why can't it? the staff sling is basically a very long sling that is partly stiff (very stiff). there's no big difference except for range and use ( it's easier to use)

xxkid123 wrote on Jul 17^th, 2009 at 1:48pm:

Mr. Boss wrote on Jul 16th, 2009 at 7:13pm: adsi wrote on Jul 16th, 2009 at 2:07pm: that device is rather ingenious id love one of them 700 yards that means you top mr boss Its 700 feet, there no way a steff sling is going to out range a sling. and why can't it? the staff sling is basically a very long sling that is partly stiff (very stiff). there's no big difference except for range and use ( it's easier to use)

Distance the projectile travels has to do with pouch speed. A staff sling acts like a lever allowing you to thorw larger objects, but the pouch does not travel as quickley.

What if you have a 2 meter pole and have the pouch measured so you can hold it in your left hand at the base of the staff, so you drop the pouch as you start the swing.
That should give it decent speed, shouldn't it?

The speeds you get from a 24" atlatl are a lot less than you get from a 24" sling. It just doesnt have that 'whip' effect. However, you can use a staff sling with two hands and so double the available power.

I was chucking to about the same distances with staff sling and hand sling, but the staff sling could throw much heavier ammo.

Thanks for the insight on the weight.This weekend I'll modify that monster to handle baseballs.I just assumed I would throw the golf balls farther than I did.

       Brett

David Morningstar wrote on Jul 24^th, 2009 at 4:51pm:

The speeds you get from a 24" atlatl are a lot less than you get from a 24" sling. It just doesnt have that 'whip' effect. However, you can use a staff sling with two hands and so double the available power. I was chucking to about the same distances with staff sling and hand sling, but the staff sling could throw much heavier ammo.

David,

Have you ever measured your atlatl speed? What about the max. range? I have often wondered about the respective advantages of sling v atlatl; a sling allows a much larger angle of movement but the stiff atlatl should allow a flicking wrist action that a flexible sling cannot transmit. Is that a reasonable assumption?

Here are some measurements: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/166332#reply-166332

These tie in with my 'eyeball Mk1' guesstimations. A sling projectile is waaaaay faster.

I've got a few long bamboo poles.  I think some are longer than 12'.  I could buy some big surf pole eyelets and make something like that.  I wonder if a long, thin bamboo pole would have the flex yet the stiffness to develop the speed necessary to launch a golf ball into orbit.  If it doesn't work I'll have a new fishing pole!!!  

I'm interested in the caulk tube sling, is there a list of instructions somewhere that i missed on how to make and use one. anything special about the cords or style that is required to use effectively?

drum_slinger

Later today I will try to post a sketch of the sling and a little description. That was the only one made so far and it is now over 900 miles away in Florida. A sketch is easier sometimes for details.  

tom                      

drum_slinger

Here is a  full scale picture of the caulk tube pouch only. The rest will follow. Looks like the jpg image is bad. PM me and I will email a pdf.  

tom    

---

Thomas
The picture greatly helps, its extremely useful to see the breakdown of it before its put together. I believe i will make this my next project, both making a design similar and learning the basics of the cast and the fine tuning to get the best results possible. My thanks for the diagram.
-Hayz

You should check out the "CRAP-ONE baitcaster"  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siFOPAd0zY8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH_2mjTOK8Y

The Crap One is awesome,but it has me perplexed.Where's the hook?Does it just chum the area?

I finally got a new camera and it appears to have avi video.


Drumslinger,

Here's a clip.This may assist in the construction of your caulk tube sling.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAMmiPLgcFk

      Brett

P.S.  I tried to just post the video but the size(small?)was too large so I had to put it on my youtube channel.

drum_slinger wrote on Jul 26^th, 2009 at 1:14am:

I'm interested in the caulk tube sling, is there a list of instructions somewhere that i missed on how to make and use one. anything special about the cords or style that is required to use effectively?

Here is a little supplement to the pouch diagram on reply #86.

Ideally the retention point should be on the rear center line of the tube. Each cord is terminated in a “Y” which is attached at 2 points strengthened by metal grommets. The rear “Y” is made by first passing the retention cord through a rear grommet then the stopper tube and out the opposite grommet. Next a sufficient length of this is pulled through to give the “pouch” rotational clearance and then reattached to the rest of release cord to complete the “Y”. I would also knot this rear cord to keep it centered before and after it passed through the caulk tube. The little axle and trunnion formed in this way allows the "tube pouch" to rotate 90deg up. At the hand end both cords pass through swivels and ultimately join in a fashion to limit release cord travel.            

In order for this “slide out”pouch to make sense it’s only reasonable that once the release is made that cord’s job is done and should stay out of the cast. Why would anyone, save for for nostalgia sake want the sling to double in length, flail around and tangle with nearby objects – animal, veg or mineral?

tom    

"In order for this “slide out”pouch to make sense it’s only reasonable that once the release is made that cord’s job is done and should stay out of the cast. Why would anyone, save for nostalgia sake want the sling to double in length, flail around and tangle with nearby objects – animal, veg or mineral?"

Agreed,now that we have Madden '09,why play pong?

       Brett

I fitted a new pouch to an old rig last week,and thought I'd share.The sling that was originally intended for the plastic wing was given to Steven(Sorry I didn't include the wing,shall I make you one,Steven?)so I had to put one together.The original worked really well,although I have yet to try this one.

        Brett

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Unattached

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Almost ready...

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Fire away!

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I made a retained release sling from a coke bottle. Should have used a small coke bottle, but anyway, it seems to work ok. Its my first post, and I cant figure out how to attach images.

Argh - account problems.

Here is the coke-bottle retained release sling.

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Function over form.  Welcome, apackofwankers.  What sort of ammo to you shoot with that?

POW - you might want to choose a less offensive username - and log in again with something a bit more sensible.
your current one is being removed :-)

Have sent you an email with same information.

This guy's gotta be an aussie. Hope he comes back. I know I should be outraged and all that, and of course I was, truly ruly!!

somebody made a shurken sling awhile back you might seach arcives

Aussie wrote on Feb 26^th, 2011 at 1:24am:

This guy's gotta be an aussie. Hope he comes back. I know I should be outraged and all that, and of course I was, truly ruly!!

Quote:

http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/ozwords/April%202001/Swearing.html Even the literal sense of wanker (‘masturbator’) has lost much of its force in Australia. The Law Society Journal (NSW), March 2000, p. 88, reported on an interesting case in the Supreme Court of Victoria: The Supreme Court of Victoria has held that it was not contempt of court for a solicitor, when served with an injunction, to say: ‘Justice Beach has got his hand on his dick’. The judge hearing the case held that by contemporary Australian standards, to call a judge a wanker is not in contempt of court. ... Justice Cummins wound up: ‘Finally I turn to whether, in the context I have defined, the words uttered by the defendant constitute contempt of court. The matter must be judged by contemporary Australian standards. It may be offensive, but it is not contempt of court, for a person to describe a judge as a wanker.

curious_aardvark, I find your name offensive, since it clearly implies that your aardvark is in fact bi-curious, and I am good christian homophobe, so I demand that you change or clarify that your aardvark is straight.

wrote on Aug 25^th, 2009 at 11:23pm:

Fire away!

Looks like from this configuration of the sling and fin, that when slinging you have one string in front and one behind.

Im wondering if the fin could be attached to the string itself, rather than on the bottom of the cup.

Perhaps the fin could become part of the cup itself, as in the attached pic.

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Awesome!You should make one. ;)My dad designed these,I just abuse them.These wing slings are designed for baseballs,except for the caulk tube bucket and the cicada.Any input,Dad?

w.r.

Your idea shows you are looking beyond merely slaying imaginary foes.  

I understand the general principal of your drawing. There are several examples tried and pictured elsewhere in this thread. The golf ball pouch “cicada” has an integral tail of sorts while others have a non removable tail vane of differing material.

The one with that removable wing was made so spiral throws can be done using a sidearm cast with narrow grip and long 54” sling. The baseball passes through the forward loop regardless of the pouch orientation.

For a right hand throw the pouch exit will be face up while the wing trails behind as a vertical stabilizer. The alternate wing mounting is longitudinal to augment back spin using an overhand cast.

So many real foes, so few imaginary foes. So may people who need a half brick hurled at them to set them straight.

wankelrotary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2011 at 4:40am:

So many real foes, so few imaginary foes. So may people who need a half brick hurled at them to set them straight.

It is official slinging.org policy that slings were once a weapon of war and we cannot ignore that, be we here do not condone using a sling against anyone in any way.

“Your idea shows you are looking beyond merely slaying imaginary foes.”  

That indeed does not sound appropriate! Beyond weapon use is what I meant. From my personal view all foes may as well be imaginary. Sorry for the omission of anyone’s actual or potential foe.

tom

Was thinking of recent events in the middle east.

Slaying baseballs?I once threw a rotten one so hard the skin peeled off mid flight,but left it hanging on the core.The baseball then went backward like a high frisbee toss and landed about 120' away.

Another unusual sling

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I haven't a picture, but I've been playing around with an adjustable sling design that is also easy to make in a matter of minutes. The finger loop is a doubled up bowline, and I don't really know what the release knot is, something like a figure eight with an extra loop in it- it tightens to a solid stopper knot.

The pouch is two straps crossed over each other, and the knots attaching them are bowlines with a few inches of extra material, if I remember correctly. This makes it so that if you so choose you can change the length of the sling to suit any range.

Tried a captive cord and found that it was easier to reload most times, but when it got twisted it took longer to reload.  It just takes one pull to untangle if your release isn't captive.  

Imho great for hunting where you'd only shoot a few shots, and so there's no time to tangle.  Bad for war, where you shoot lots and get shot while untangling.  For play, whatever -- I'm not a fan really because of the tangling but it has advantages.

Captive seems to work well even without that "Y" shape at the pouch.  I just tied together the ends of my best sling with some extra cord.

Another issue is that there's a way to reload where you whip the sling around your ammo.  It's really fast, I'm told, but won't work with a captive cord at all.  I haven't been able to do it yet anyway.

Finally, my capture cord cut my finger, so use a thick cord if you're gonna do that.

wankelrotary wrote on Mar 9^th, 2011 at 4:29pm:

Another unusual sling

does the ball come out, or is the whole thing thrown?

fattybones wrote on Mar 30^th, 2011 at 4:09pm:

wankelrotary wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 4:29pm: Another unusual sling does the ball come out, or is the whole thing thrown?

Nah - just throw the whole thing. The ball inside is so that it floats.

I really should make some float rope so the dog can grab it easier in the surf - i.e. the sheath from some kernmantle rope, with a neoprene rubber core pulled through.

wankelrotary wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 2:03am:

fattybones wrote on Mar 30th, 2011 at 4:09pm: wankelrotary wrote on Mar 9th, 2011 at 4:29pm: Another unusual sling does the ball come out, or is the whole thing thrown? Nah - just throw the whole thing. The ball inside is so that it floats.

That would make it a "bola perdida" then, instead of a sling.

Baseball slings, but with a twist.

The pouches could be simulating baseball pitches (like a knuckleball) with latex copies or hell, even taxidermied human hands that grip the ball in the sweet spots so you can have a perfect sinker every time.

Also, a triggered sling would be cool. Basically, it would be a tandem release sling, where you could release one object and then the next (a trigger on the first shot, a normal throw on the next) to get you some cool combinations, like throwing a clay pigeon or pomegranate on the first throw and then follow it up with some lead shot.

The coolest thing would be a robotic sling. You would have the sights at the radius of the loaded sling, so you'd be a tangent to a release point. All the robotics would do is allow you to release the pouch at your tangent, and would coordinate releases even if your trigger press was off (although a mechanical linkage could do the same thing).

Here's the image in my head:
            I
O====<)
            I
            I
Where O is the center point, the =<) a sling with pouch, and I being the sights/business end of it all.

Also, for those maffball players, why couldn't you use a cross shaped piece of wood as a staff sling? You slip the tissue roll over the dowel part, and BAM! instant staff sling!

All good ideas, Centrifugal Sin. Are you a handy inventor?  Can you make any of those?

:o

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AncientCraftwork wrote on Nov 27^th, 2020 at 5:22am:

:o

Ok ok "J".   ;D ;D ;D

You know you will always be Jauke to me. Nice little upgrade you have there. Would you believe I still haven't tried a y sling? Y you might ask? Because I am lazy. The End.

Are you still improving the design? Mind giving us your thoughts on it as it stands right now?

:)
Very good idea. Interesting.
:)

Morphy wrote on Nov 27^th, 2020 at 8:34am:

AncientCraftwork wrote on Nov 27th, 2020 at 5:22am: :o Ok ok "J".   ;D ;D ;D You know you will always be Jauke to me. Nice little upgrade you have there. Would you believe I still haven't tried a y sling? Y you might ask? Because I am lazy. The End. Are you still improving the design? Mind giving us your thoughts on it as it stands right now?

The Y-sling offers some benefit when throwing bad ammo. Although that is not what this is about. I was interested in the grip style/handle that hammer throwers use, and implementing that into a sling, considering that they sling the heaviest objects (+7kg). naturally this setup works best on a y-sling configuration, because I also tried it on a convential sling, but its awkward. On a plus note, this way you can actually control the pouch orientation on a y-sling too, without having to rely on fin attachmens like Burner and his dad used, because it spreads out the cords (the same reason why we use wide grips on  regular slings). So now you can get a consistent topspin, backspin or sidespin using the y-sling.
I've yet to test it with big rocks in the field, but just swinging it around it already feels like it spreads the load over the hand really comfortably, after all, that's why hammer throwers use it. And the release of the handle out of the hand is not as bad as I expected either.

On a convential sling, you can also have a handle like this, but it has to be on the retention cord (retention toggle). I've also tried the wrist loop many times now for better load distribution on a convential sling, but it gets in the way for my release cord because I like to grip the release cord with my whole hand. I've still got to try the retention toggle thing, on a convential sling. But I fear it will also get in the way of me being able to grab the release cord properly with all of my hand. I don't like just grabbing a knot or tab with just a few fingers. Currently I still just use a fingerloop on the convential sling, and with the full hand grip on the release cord, the load distribution is very good, but not as good as it can possibly get. But figuring this out without it getting in the way of a clean release out of the hand is tricky. We want a good grip on cords but we also don't want the release cord getting snagged and delaying the shot. Currently a grippy but smooth release cord is what I settled on, on my convential slings. The only time I still think that a knot or node on the release cord is justified is when you are using really thin cords, for ultra distance.

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AncientCraftwork wrote on Nov 27^th, 2020 at 11:53am:

The Y-sling offers some benefit when throwing bad ammo.

Have you tried a y-sling back to front? I made my current pouch a bit like that and it works well for me

AncientCraftwork wrote on Nov 27^th, 2020 at 11:53am:

Morphy wrote on Nov 27th, 2020 at 8:34am: AncientCraftwork wrote on Nov 27th, 2020 at 5:22am: :o Ok ok "J".   ;D ;D ;D You know you will always be Jauke to me. Nice little upgrade you have there. Would you believe I still haven't tried a y sling? Y you might ask? Because I am lazy. The End. Are you still improving the design? Mind giving us your thoughts on it as it stands right now? The Y-sling offers some benefit when throwing bad ammo. Although that is not what this is about. I was interested in the grip style/handle that hammer throwers use, and implementing that into a sling, considering that they sling the heaviest objects (+7kg). naturally this setup works best on a y-sling configuration, because I also tried it on a convential sling, but its awkward. On a plus note, this way you can actually control the pouch orientation on a y-sling too, without having to rely on fin attachmens like Burner and his dad used, because it spreads out the cords (the same reason why we use wide grips on  regular slings). So now you can get a consistent topspin, backspin or sidespin using the y-sling. I've yet to test it with big rocks in the field, but just swinging it around it already feels like it spreads the load over the hand really comfortably, after all, that's why hammer throwers use it. And the release of the handle out of the hand is not as bad as I expected either. On a convential sling, you can also have a handle like this, but it has to be on the retention cord (retention toggle). I've also tried the wrist loop many times now for better load distribution on a convential sling, but it gets in the way for my release cord because I like to grip the release cord with my whole hand. I've still got to try the retention toggle thing, on a convential sling. But I fear it will also get in the way of me being able to grab the release cord properly with all of my hand. I don't like just grabbing a knot or tab with just a few fingers. Currently I still just use a fingerloop on the convential sling, and with the full hand grip on the release cord, the load distribution is very good, but not as good as it can possibly get. But figuring this out without it getting in the way of a clean release out of the hand is tricky. We want a good grip on cords but we also don't want the release cord getting snagged and delaying the shot. Currently a grippy but smooth release cord is what I settled on, on my convential slings. The only time I still think that a knot or node on the release cord is justified is when you are using really thin cords, for ultra distance.

So you release the whole handle? Any danger of it swinging back at you?

A y-sling back to front would be somewhat like an assymetric sling pouch I suppose. I like those. But they are no longer a true Y-sling that way, because the Y-sling is intended to dump the shot almost immediately after release, through the release cords, and for that the gap has to be in front.

But I also learned to appreciate traditional cupped pouches. In the past I ranted about cupped sling pouches, but I learned
that the extra internal friction can be very beneficial for those very slippery smooth stones, but also smooth clay, lead and steel ammo.

@Morphy yes, on that setup I posted earlier you release the complete handle. It works on a Y-sling because unlike with a convential sling, there not a lot of pressure on the release cord on release so there is no whip snap force on the end either.
I tested it out with big stones yesterday. it's quite an interesting slinging experience. If it has a usecase, than it is with big stones for sure. You could scale this up and make a hammer-throwing sling. It's not intended to compete with the traditional sling. The nature of a handle release and the pirouette throw is always going to be less accurate than the face-towards-target throw and single cord release.

By the way, I tried out a toggle retention on the convential sling, but I don't like it. It gets in the way of me grabbing my release cord.
The fingerloop configuration still works the best for me, because its outside of the hand, allowing me to to use the inside of my hand to grab the release cord.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Nov 29^th, 2020 at 4:26am:

A y-sling back to front would be somewhat like an assymetric sling pouch I suppose. I like those. But they are no longer a true Y-sling that way, because the Y-sling is intended to dump the shot almost immediately after release, through the release cords, and for that the gap has to be in front.

I see what you mean. Mine isn't designed for anything fancy, just to give me more leeway with ammo.

@J... if there’s not a lot of pressure, why go with a big handle?  I would think that it’s slower to release because you’re working multiple fingers. Wouldn’t that negate some of the speed advantages of the Y?

This design is not focused on the Y-sling, it was all about the handle or a loop-release string. The Y-sling was just the best platform to put it on.

The handle (or a loop string release without a handle) is so that you can use different muscle groups, for heavy heavy rocks, using a pirouette throw. Its not really convential slinging.

I meant, there is little pressure on the release cord after one has let go of the handle, because the rock doesn't push against it once the release loop/handle is dropped. And because its centered around using heavy rocks, the release cord never really flies super fast.

It works, it's an interesting experience for slinging heavy rocks using pirouette. Spin angle is not so important in this case. With a handle or loop release it feels like you can put more power into the throw, because of better load distribution linear with the muscles of the forearm.

When you use a bow, you also often use 3 fingers for holding back the string that is under pressure, and then let go.  You don't pull a bow back using just your thumb and index pinching the arrow (the Asiatic thumb grip is different.) That is what inspired me to try something like this out, but also the hammer throwers inspired me.

Keep in mind I am no longer a y-sling advocate as a superior sling. That is why the deleted all those posts, although in hindsight I was not thinking clearly, I was burned out, but I am sorry for all that mess. It was stupid.
But for this particular usecase, the Y-sling platform just fit better.

When I left I wrote about why I liked the Balearic sling better. I still do. I have made about 6 since, 3 and 5 strand from raw yucca I gathered or manilla and sisal fibers I untwined. This design works so well with nearly everything.
Aside from that I also make thin (4mm)  twisted slings using a 2 ply method with a tight, quite small and seperate woven pouch. These have too thin cords just to grab with the hand, so I get by with a double overhand knot on those, and these slings I use for glandes or high velocity small stones. So one sling for the dirty work, and one sling for high velocity and long distances. Both from natural fibres and about a medium 70 cm long.

Burner wrote on Jul 12^th, 2009 at 5:27pm:

I successfully built and tested my triggered staff sling today.Currently it is a 24" sling mounted on a 5-10' adjustable fiberglass pole from an old branch trimmer from my bottomless inventory.The hollow pole is approximately 1" diameter for the top half,and the bottom half is about 1 1/4".The sling itself is one of Thomas' non-traditional golf ball slings with an extension of about 9'.I installed an eyelet up top for the release cord to pass through nicely.    The two throws I attempted were in front of my house,with random cars coming and going.The first one went in the dirt,although the speed at which it came out of the pouch really surprised me.The second throw went a whole city block with a flick of wrist,and landed safely(thank God) in the church soccer field adjacent.   With some adjustments and a bigger field with no obstructions,I believe I'll be able to throw 700'+(which is my range with a 40" sling).      Brett P.S. I'll post pics and videos ASAP

I am kinda surprised that someone on this forum though up the triggered staff sling multiple times. First, more than a decade ago and then it was just forgotten again like some sort of lost ancient advanced technology. 
A quick search shows me that the idea has been thrown around a bit since 2007 without ever reaching a wider audience. Gotta make one myself.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Nov 30^th, 2020 at 4:40am:

This design is not focused on the Y-sling, it was all about the handle or a loop-release string. The Y-sling was just the best platform to put it on. The handle (or a loop string release without a handle) is so that you can use different muscle groups, for heavy heavy rocks, using a pirouette throw. Its not really convential slinging. I meant, there is little pressure on the release cord after one has let go of the handle, because the rock doesn't push against it once the release loop/handle is dropped. And because its centered around using heavy rocks, the release cord never really flies super fast. It works, it's an interesting experience for slinging heavy rocks using pirouette. Spin angle is not so important in this case. With a handle or loop release it feels like you can put more power into the throw, because of better load distribution linear with the muscles of the forearm. When you use a bow, you also often use 3 fingers for holding back the string that is under pressure, and then let go.  You don't pull a bow back using just your thumb and index pinching the arrow (the Asiatic thumb grip is different.) That is what inspired me to try something like this out, but also the hammer throwers inspired me. Keep in mind I am no longer a y-sling advocate as a superior sling. That is why the deleted all those posts, although in hindsight I was not thinking clearly, I was burned out, but I am sorry for all that mess. It was stupid. But for this particular usecase, the Y-sling platform just fit better. When I left I wrote about why I liked the Balearic sling better. I still do. I have made about 6 since, 3 and 5 strand from raw yucca I gathered or manilla and sisal fibers I untwined. This design works so well with nearly everything. Aside from that I also make thin (4mm)  twisted slings using a 2 ply method with a tight, quite small and seperate woven pouch. These have too thin cords just to grab with the hand, so I get by with a double overhand knot on those, and these slings I use for glandes or high velocity small stones. So one sling for the dirty work, and one sling for high velocity and long distances. Both from natural fibres and about a medium 70 cm long.

Welcome back Jauke. It's true, you never had to delete anything, you were going through a process and whether the results are positive or negative it's still a useful contribution for the forum. That goes for further experimentation too.

Out of interest- how do you find manila as a sling material? I only know myself and one other who has used it and we have different experiences with it, so interested to hear your take.

I’ll second that. Welcome back Jauke... although I’m not even sure you really left ;)

I find it quite respectable that you are willing to change your opinions even though your original beliefs were held quite strongly. I also respect the fact that you don’t just form opinions, but you also test your theories and do so openly so that we all learn from it.

A few months ago I also made a triggered staff sling using a Y-sling for the sling and a lightweight aluminium pole. It was quite a nice build, but I don't recount talking about it on here. I liked it more than a traditional staff sling. As far as I remember I didn't throw further with it than a hand sling. I've only taken it out once and the stones I had available were not the best. It worked better for me than a normal staff sling. But I still much more prefer the traditional hand sling.

The manilla I have is sold as thick rope. I happen to have a very large spool of it that is about as big as a large microwave.
To make a sling out of it, I cut a section of rope and untwine it into lose fibers. I prefer to work with loose fibers than working with pre-twined rope or cordage. The manilla I have has just a more brown color compared to sisal, and is just a touch softer than sisal. But far from being as soft as hemp or jute.  It is cheaper than sisal too. It's perfectly adequate fibre for slings. I must say the Yucca I have I love the most right now, because I enjoy the process of getting the fibers out of the leaf more than untwining fibers that have been twisted into a rope. Its actually quicker. And the raw Yucca also does not have this stinky factory oils leaked into it. From a job I got some Yucca plants out of someones backyard. I copied Diego Camuñas method with some slight modifications for getting the fibres out. That's much quicker than scraping the greenery off with a spoon or knife. https://www.youtube.com/watch/?hl=ru&v=-ouNR6djZy4

I have used sisal, manilla and yucca fibres together in the same slings interchangeably and they're like twin brothers to each other, it all works. Getting to work with Yucca is a joy, much more than working nettles because you get such a greater yield of fibre. Nettle is probably more suited for bow strings although I would still use it for slings if it was all I could find and gather.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Dec 1^st, 2020 at 3:14pm:

A few months ago I also made a triggered staff sling using a Y-sling for the sling and a lightweight aluminium pole. It was quite a nice build, but I don't recount talking about it on here. I liked it more than a traditional staff sling. As far as I remember I didn't throw further with it than a hand sling. I've only taken it out once and the stones I had available were not the best. It worked better for me than a normal staff sling. But I still much more prefer the traditional hand sling.

I haven't ever wielded a staff sling but that sounds odd.
Searching the archives gives me some conflicting info on whether staff slings throw objects farther.

But they pretty much agree that staffies can throw heavier stones with more force. The last part doesn't make much sense if it can't throw longer.

Slyngorm wrote on Dec 5^th, 2020 at 5:12pm:

AncientCraftwork wrote on Dec 1st, 2020 at 3:14pm: A few months ago I also made a triggered staff sling using a Y-sling for the sling and a lightweight aluminium pole. It was quite a nice build, but I don't recount talking about it on here. I liked it more than a traditional staff sling. As far as I remember I didn't throw further with it than a hand sling. I've only taken it out once and the stones I had available were not the best. It worked better for me than a normal staff sling. But I still much more prefer the traditional hand sling. I haven't ever wielded a staff sling but that sounds odd. Searching the archives gives me some conflicting info on whether staff slings throw objects farther. But they pretty much agree that staffies can throw heavier stones with more force. The last part doesn't make much sense if it can't throw longer.

I could write you a 2000 word long message delving into this topic and talk theory with you about this all day, but I think it's better you just go out and build a range of staff slings & try them out and then determine for yourself. There's a lot of stuff on this site that will help getting you started.   ;)

Slyngorm wrote on Dec 5^th, 2020 at 5:12pm:

I haven't ever wielded a staff sling but that sounds odd. Searching the archives gives me some conflicting info on whether staff slings throw objects farther. But they pretty much agree that staffies can throw heavier stones with more force. The last part doesn't make much sense if it can't throw longer.

For me apart from rock size, the most important thing about the staff sling is trajectory.

My staff sling is stainless steel pipe about 6ft. But when I throw with it it's releasing the rock about 10 foot off the ground, perhaps more. So I have a 6ft gate and a 50 metre driveway beyond it. I can throw a big rock down that driveway with my gate closed.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Dec 5^th, 2020 at 5:49pm:

it's better you just go out and build a range of staff slings & try them out and then determine for yourself

Can't argue with that, honestly  ;D

Hello again friends. Cool to see my old thread getting a lil run. My dad is the non-conventional king. Love you Dad. Any input here?

What are the coolest least conventional slings he have made?

Burner wrote on Dec 9^th, 2020 at 6:32pm:

Hello again friends. Cool to see my old thread getting a lil run. My dad is the non-conventional king. Love you Dad. Any input here?

Ajax?

Morphy!! Merry Christmas!! All the captive release slings in this thread are my favorites, obviously.  Such an advantage, I can't imagine slinging without that. We primarily sling sporting SPHERES, so the snag you might get from a traditional sling from odd shaped stones is nonexistent. The caulk tube sling is my favorite.

Cheers

You are the OG captive release  slinger as far as I remember. Welcome back my man.  :D

I have an archery release trigger that goes around my wrist.  It's very easy to use with a sling as well. A release loop on the end of a sling release cord is what secures the release cord to the trigger. When you spin the conventional sling around the trigger becomes an absolute hair trigger. Due the the pressure on the release mechanism caused by the momentum of the projectile, any slight touch to the trigger results in the release cord being released.
It showed me that most of the release delay of the sling happens at the end of the release cord and not
in the pouch or at the base of the release cord as I said in the past. 
The harder and faster you sling, the more momentum you generate and the quicker the release of the sling becomes. The archery release on a sling makes that very obvious. But that's why I don't think the archery release on a sling is beneficial. Yes, it allows you to swing heavy objects with less energy required, but as a result you no longer feel the sling's momentum as well and thus determining your release point for hitting your target is less intuitive, while the whole action of a sling'accuracy is supposed to be from intuition and instinct. The hand-release I still conclude as optimal because it is inline with the senses of the slinger. The mechanical release creates a barrier.

Looking through this thread I realized that my own collection of unconventional slings is getting pretty large.  Regrettably the compound slings don't work.  But that's something I will revisit again some day.

http://beehatmead.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/UnconventionalSlings.jpg

joe_meadmaker wrote on Jan 10^th, 2021 at 7:26pm:

Regrettably the compound slings don't work.  But that's something I will revisit again some day.

What is the compound sling and how does it work?

@Mariano
I’m so glad you asked!  It’s about time we revisit the compound sling again. 
If a regular sling was a one-speed bicycle, the compound sling would be a bike with a continuously variable transmission. The idea is to sling like you would with heavy ammo, but it launches small ammo really fast... at least in theory. Nobody has outperformed a normal sling with a compound yet.

MirkoSling wrote on Jan 12^th, 2021 at 9:24am:

What is the compound sling

https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1174772635/0
It is basically a sling that is supposed to give extra power by releasing an extra length of cord when you throw it.


MirkoSling wrote on Jan 12^th, 2021 at 9:24am:

how does it work?

It's a mystery. Jk
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1554580056/0

The better question is if anyone has ever actually made it work practically or as according to its theoretical benefits. Sarosh's vid is the only one I have seen demonstrating it and he isn't very positive concerning its potential.

@MarianoV123 - If you check out the second link that Slyngorm posted, that is the more recent thread.  I liked the design from Sarosh a lot.  But it did have the caveat that two hands were needed to work the sling.  His video and several of mine are in that thread.

I attempted to modify the design so it could be used one-handed, but it ultimately didn't work well.  In order to use it one-handed, the booster weight needed to be in a fixed position.  What this caused to happen is when the sling was released, the pouch wasn't getting any extra force.  The projectile was released by the booster essentially just dragging the pouch through the air.

They were really fun experiments to play with.  It is something I want to revisit some day.

@joe_meadmaker Is the weight in the middle necessary? I still don't fully understand the concept but would a sliding pouch be considered a compound sling. The sling would be held normally but when released the pouch slides up to the release knot, increasing the amount of leverage without having to add more cord to the sling. This is just an idea I have come up with without trying anything so there is probably a major flaw that I am missing.

It’s physics mariano.  The weight in the middle is what the ammo rotates around in the second stage of the launch. It doesn’t work without the weight. The only other way to approach it is like a bull whip where you concentrate momentum in less and less mass to achieve higher velocities. Nobody has come up with a sling design that does that yet.

The kung-fu meteor hammer style was a joke, but it sort of achieves this same effect by rotating the pouch around a decreasing radius.

The compound sling idea is from long before I was on the forum, but based on what CA has said, the original idea of the compound was for throwing very light weight projectiles.  The booster weight in the middle is so you can build up energy during the rotation, but a secondary release would actually let the pouch go free.  Unfortunately all my compound sling videos were done before I started talking to the camera, so I don't explain anything. :-X

I had a similar thought to what you said about a sliding pouch.  I think there could be a couple problems with this.  When the sling is being rotated, it's going to have a certain amount of energy built up.  When the pouch is released, there is suddenly going to be a longer distance from your hand to the projectile, so a lot of speed could be lost because a longer cord will require more energy.

I think this could also be difficult because as the pouch moves to a longer radius, your release angle will change.  It may ultimately feel like a short sling, but throw like a long sling.

The timing is definitely going to be tricky.  You basically put all the energy into the weight in the middle, and then some of that momentum is transferred to the ammo when the second stage pouch is released.  The longer radius is compensated for somewhat by the relatively small mass of the projectile. 

Anything new out there?

I do have a sling that's had some pouch adjustments made to serve a particular purpose.  I can't post any pics yet because it's going to be featured in an upcoming video (very soon) and don't want to drop any spoilers here.  But I'll upload a picture as soon as the video is posted.

When I first started making the pouch adjustments, I wasn't sure if it would work.  Initial tests look good, but I'm still not certain if it will survive an actual throw.  I'll know soon.

This should all (meaning tests and video) be within the next week or so.

Here's a double barrel sling I've been making for years.  As long as the projectiles are the same it will give a reasonably tight shot group.  Also the two pouches can be used as one for slinging bigger projectiles.  It makes a great snowball sling. 

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I experimented with a few more Y-sling designs, but the perfection of the design adds too much complexity that takes away from the neat simplicity of slings, while the benefit that it all adds is still doubtful in comparison to the simple design and to put it plainly, not well enough documented / proven or by me

One problem I have with Y-slings is getting a relaxed grip. This for me requires a large overhand knot or a big round bead. But a round bead is not something you can quickly recreate in nature.

My preferred release on a normal sling is a knotless release cord end, but I can only get this to work with conventional slings (with rough natural plant cordage. ) due to the inherent design, this sling type has only 50% of the load on the release cord (with the other 50% on the retention). This in turn allows a more relaxed grip by default which adds to the power of the cast.

But the Y-sling has nearly all load on the release end, so when I use a smooth release end, a) the stone will be out before the tail is out of my hand completely, b) I can't relax my grip and this interferes with accuracy so the solution c) a big release knot, but this delays the release from my hand significantly, to the point of being equal or worse than a rifled shot with a conventional sling with smooth release end -- in terms of timing.

So for the Y-sling I would need some sort of mechanical trigger release to relax. I've always drawn the line at such innovations. In the past I tried something simple but it wasn't adequate. I don't intend to pursue this anymore because it adds too much complexity ++ simplicity is better. If all cultures stayed with the simple design they probably had a good reason to and didn't see a need for improvement. The accuracy achieved as shown by Sarosh and Albion and Jaegoor and other expert slingers are proof enough that the simple design is excellent in terms of effectiveness.

Your conclusions definitely have merit.  The Y pouch is certainly a very different experience when slinging.

To sum it up, I concluded there are 2 things that are important for a clean sling cast in my opinion. 1) a smooth exit of the stone from the sling pouch and 2) a smooth exit of the release end from the hand.

1) and 2) can both be achieved with the simple conventional sling, with proper pouch angling and a well designed release tail/tassle, all the while keeping a very simple construction.

but so far I've only achieved 1) comfortably with a Y-sling and not 2) without sacrificing power of the cast and/or the stone weight. Others may have different experiences, I am not saying my conclusion on the Y-sling is definite but I am not motivated to exploit the design any further, due to the increasing complexities required in the construction thereof

I agree with your conclusion on release knot vs. no release knot for a Y-pouch sling.  My experience with the Y is only a few sessions, but I can't imagine using it without a release knot.  There's too much pull on the release cord, as you mentioned.

If you are done with your exploration of the Y-pouch, I'm glad I was here to read about your results and observations.  You definitely put way more time and effort into that design that anyone else I'm aware of.

There ''is'' one low-tech solution to not needing a mechanical trigger or a big release knot / bead  on a Y-sling that I am aware of. That is the loop-release. I have tried that in the past and it worked. But it requires a lot of adaptation and practice compared to the smooth release cord grip of the conventional sling and I have not used it enough  to come to a sound conclusion and whether this can be used accurately enough. If the Achaeans used the Y-sling, I could imagine that they used this loop-release. The release of the release-loop from the hand in this way is very similar to the release of a bow-string with 3 or 2 fingers (depending on the width of the projectile, one would swap width placing the release loop over 2 or 3 release fingers.). When one uses this one easily can see how they made the connection to the shot of an arrow with a bow in the historical description, in combination with the release of the projectile through the pouch. This also gives good pouch orientation control. That the Y-sling can rifle a shot I am convinced of. This is dependent on projectile placement in the pouch and the angle of the pouch upon release. But the spinrate is a lot less. When this is used one will have to make good use of the wrist to ensure that the projectile will not escape the pouch before release similarily how one uses the wrist with a conventional sling and cord-spacing between the fingers.  But I don't know yet if this style of loop release from the hand can give consistent results. One has to open the hand in order for the loop to slide off the fingers (like a bowstring.) and thus there is some drag and new ''mental timing'' required. It also adds more aerodynamic drag when 3 cords are used and the Y-style pouch also seems to be worse aerodynamically. Whther any of this is superior to the well proven and old simple tested design is doubtful. In the past my enthusiasm for ''something new'' lead to too-quick conclusions. ''keep it simple - stupid ! '' is a good principe for sling design and many other things in life.

Have you ever tried using some other type of gripping point as substitute for the release knot?  Something that would provide some additional grip, but also (possibly) release faster than a knot.

Here's the end of a sling I recently finished.  What you're seeing isn't the holding point for the sling.  It's just how I terminated it at the end.  It's a couple layers of wax coated linen wrapped around.  But I wonder if something like this would work better as a "grip point" for a Y-pouch sling.

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joe_meadmaker wrote on Feb 5^th, 2023 at 7:43pm:

Have you ever tried using some other type of gripping point as substitute for the release knot?  Something that would provide some additional grip, but also (possibly) release faster than a knot. Here's the end of a sling I recently finished.  What you're seeing isn't the holding point for the sling.  It's just how I terminated it at the end.  It's a couple layers of wax coated linen wrapped around.  But I wonder if something like this would work better as a "grip point" for a Y-pouch sling.

That looks a lot like what I did on my cotton fishtail braided sling.  I used a thin silicone slurry instead of wax, but very similar approach:

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@NooneOfConsequence - Yes, that is exactly the concept I'm describing. :thumb:

Yes, I have tried woven release tabs and whipped sling ends as well. But the fact remains that the weight on a Y-sling release end is, in my case, basically >95% of the projectile weight and 5% or less on the retention end. Thus a 500g stone is 500g pulling on the releasing ''trigger'' fingers. As I said, this is the case with my designs, with the retention cord only having the function of retaining the sling after a cast and hinging the pouch sideways so to drop the stone.

When there is slack in the retention cord of the Y-sling this causes release inconsistencies. Different ammo sizes fit differently in the pouch thus this slack is either greater or less depending on the projectile size. Ideally there would be no slack and no tension in my case, so neutrality. Achieving this after every cast with different stone sizes is a hassle and reduces loading speed significantly. Solution would be uniform ammo but this is not always achieveable. In contrast, with the conventional sling, it does not matter the stone size, it immediately provides equal tension on both release and retention cord (50/50). The lack of a third cord simply provides less things to take into consideration with reloading.

With the conventional sling, this 500g stone feels like a 250g stone on the releasing fingers, with the other 250g being on the retention loop/fingers. Thus the load on the releasing fingers is cut in half.