I never claimed to be sane - I think this needs to be pointed out right at the start of this article :-)

I have recently stood in a field while people slung rocks and lead glandes at me (safety equipment ? what kind of wimp do you think I am lol). At one point a lead glande thrown by larry bray landed about 5 feet directly in front of me (just behind the 250 yard marker - he'd indicated it was going somewhere else and I just happend to move into it's path lol).
Now one of the things that is not immediately obvious to the sling user is the noise an incoming missile makes.
It's quite loud and can be heard for 2-3 seconds before the missile impacts. At no point can the victim see an incoming sling missile. You just hear it.
It's a sort of angry whirring sound.

Now if you were to multiply that sound by several hundred - as would be the case with a massed slinging attack - the noise of incoming 'invisible' missiles would be very loud indeed.
You would not have been able to dodge - like you might have done with an arrow that would have been visible - you would just have to stand there and wait for the impact.
Pretty darn nerve wracking I think you'll agree.  
The same effect could be multiplied for horses.

So slinging in battle would have had a dramatic effect on both the mental attitude of those being slung at and on their discipline. That above and beyond the sheer damage the physical impacts would also do.

The other thing that stood out for me while being slung at - is the spin of the missile. Every single stone or glande that larry bray threw spun so fast that on impact with the ground they immediately buried themselves and could not be found - even the ones I had spotted the exact landing position of (even the ones that landed less than 10 feet away) had buried themselves too deep to be found. I suspect that the penetration ability of a slung glande has been strongly underestimated on this website as a consequence of not taking the spin and orientation into account.

On reflection I suppose it should have been quite scary and indeed everyone else took cover behind the four wheeler after the throws - but I was just having too much fun to really care :-) (hence my opening statement)

In short I suspect that being shot at with arrows was probably preferable to being shot at by slingers.

Like so many things related to slings we seem to have lost the experiences our ancestors probably took for granted. Having experienced quite a few now first hand - I have a much greater respect for the sling's impact as a psychological as well as a physical weapon in warfare.

great obsevations C A

You are not insane you're just really curious!

I don't remember the source anymore  :-[ , but a couple of years ago (long before I discovered slinging) I read somewhere that the greeks carved the sling shots for making their flight noisier.

funda iucunda

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 30^th, 2007 at 9:29am:

I never claimed to be sane - I think this needs to be pointed out right at the start of this article :-) I have recently stood in a field while people slung rocks and lead glandes at me (safety equipment ? what kind of wimp do you think I am lol). At one point a lead glande thrown by larry bray landed about 5 feet directly in front of me (just behind the 250 yard marker - he'd indicated it was going somewhere else and I just happend to move into it's path lol). Now one of the things that is not immediately obvious to the sling user is the noise an incoming missile makes. It's quite loud and can be heard for 2-3 seconds before the missile impacts. At no point can the victim see an incoming sling missile. You just hear it. It's a sort of angry whirring sound. Now if you were to multiply that sound by several hundred - as would be the case with a massed slinging attack - the noise of incoming 'invisible' missiles would be very loud indeed. You would not have been able to dodge - like you might have done with an arrow that would have been visible - you would just have to stand there and wait for the impact. Pretty darn nerve wracking I think you'll agree.   The same effect could be multiplied for horses. So slinging in battle would have had a dramatic effect on both the mental attitude of those being slung at and on their discipline. That above and beyond the sheer damage the physical impacts would also do. The other thing that stood out for me while being slung at - is the spin of the missile. Every single stone or glande that larry bray threw spun so fast that on impact with the ground they immediately buried themselves and could not be found - even the ones I had spotted the exact landing position of (even the ones that landed less than 10 feet away) had buried themselves too deep to be found. I suspect that the penetration ability of a slung glande has been strongly underestimated on this website as a consequence of not taking the spin and orientation into account. On reflection I suppose it should have been quite scary and indeed everyone else took cover behind the four wheeler after the throws - but I was just having too much fun to really care :-) (hence my opening statement) In short I suspect that being shot at with arrows was probably preferable to being shot at by slingers. Like so many things related to slings we seem to have lost the experiences our ancestors probably took for granted. Having experienced quite a few now first hand - I have a much greater respect for the sling's impact as a psychological as well as a physical weapon in warfare.

Arrows, or arrow fletching, make a distinct high pitched whispering noise in flight.  In olden days when the Grey Goose flock went up it must have been harrowing to be on the receiving end.

There is an undocumented piece about slingers from Rhodes cutting spiral grooves in the glandes to produce a distinct buzzing sound.  It served as a psy-war tool and also to let the slingers know their own glandes when they took the disputed ground.

Also, I don't think an arrow coming directly at you is particularly visble.  Particularly if launched from a true long bow with 80 to 110 pounds draw.


Trebuchet

:(

Sling stones and arrows coming toward me I think "smell the fear" comes to mind possibly even find me a large tree NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you record it on video?

I can't help to imagine the headline "Man from England shot to death with a sling by former Guiness-World-Record holder during tournament"...

yep got quite a few shots on video - but it's probably the most boring set of clips of the lot. Basically me just standing in a field (and you can't see me) occasionally shouting 'over there' and pointing. Not sure if you can hear the sling missiles or not - haven't run that set of videos through a pc yet.

I suspect you could see an arrow well enough at that distance to get a shield up and block (assuming you had a shield :-) But you just don't see sling bullets. So while you might hold a shield above your head - the missile might be coming in on a shallower angle and get you anyway.

I suppose if you were to drill a small hole in the right place you could even have a whistling sling bullet now that would really put the frighteners on.

Everyone else hid behind the 4-wheeler and as a consequence didn't see a lot of the stones land. (I'm just saying that because my best throw went right over their heads and when I gave the 'coming at you signal' they disappeared behind the bike so fast it was hilarious - but they never saw it land and it was well past the 220 yard throw they did see :-(
So I didn't hide when I was on 'point'. :-)

Curious Aardvark wrote on Oct 1^st, 2007 at 12:24pm:

I suppose if you were to drill a small hole in the right place you could even have a whistling sling bullet now that would really put the frighteners on.

Maybe a spiral around the glande. Not only would that make a pretty cool noise, it might help the glande orientate itself point first and maybe even do a little extra damage because of spin. I'd think lead would be a little to dense for that to really work out well, though...

Hey, I've got a metal key and a kite if you want to do some electrical experiments. ::)

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 30^th, 2007 at 9:29am:

one of the things that is not immediately obvious to the sling user is the noise an incoming missile makes. It's quite loud and can be heard for 2-3 seconds before the missile impacts. At no point can the victim see an incoming sling missile. You just hear it. It's a sort of angry whirring sound. Now if you were to multiply that sound by several hundred - as would be the case with a massed slinging attack - the noise of incoming 'invisible' missiles would be very loud indeed. You would not have been able to dodge - like you might have done with an arrow that would have been visible - you would just have to stand there and wait for the impact. Pretty darn nerve wracking I think you'll agree.   The same effect could be multiplied for horses.

In other words, an angry, whirring sound that sends a message to a very basic level of your consciousness:

THIS IS BAD. VERY BAD.
THIS IS GOING TO HURT. REALLY, REALLY HURT.  
THERE IS NOT MUCH YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Yep, I think that is the kind of message that would make both men and horses want to go home. Fast.
At least I would.

However, in a massed slinging attack, I think you might see the missiles. Not individual missiles, naturally, but some sort of cloud of them. (OK, that would probably make you feel even worse, but still)

Lasse C

Lasse C wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2007 at 10:30am:

However, in a massed slinging attack, I think you might see the missiles. Not individual missiles, naturally, but some sort of cloud of them. (OK, that would probably make you feel even worse, but still) Lasse C

Maybe next slingfest we can get C_A to stand in a field again while all 800 members on this forum sling rocks at him. Maybe he can tell us if there really is a 'cloud'  ;D

OrangeDuck

don't worry CA, we'll get you some protective eye-wear  ;D

As the Spartan 300 marched toward the Gates of Fire and their destiny, one of the rabble rousers said that when the "Medized" archers let loose their volleys of shafts, they would block out the sun.

"Good," replied one Spartiate.  "Then we shall fight in the shade."

Laconic reply at its best.   ;)

Trebuchet

Quote:

Maybe next slingfest we can get C_A to stand in a field again while all 800 members on this forum sling rocks at him. Maybe he can tell us if there really is a 'cloud'  ;D

As crazy as C_A is for slinging and jawing with other slingers I imagine if all 800 from the forum were really going to be to the next Slingfest he'd head on out into the bean field again...  but I bet he'd grab a motor cycling helmut as I suggested if all 800 we pelting at him    :)    ;)    :o  

Hmmmm... Let me think about that.
Standing in a field, hearing the angry whirr of 800 glandes, possibly (probably) seeing them in a kind of cloud or swarm, knowing they were all aimed my way... :o

I´d definitely need a stout helmet. And a full-body armour. And most likely a clean pair of shorts!  ;)

Lasse C

Quote:

Maybe next slingfest we can get C_A to stand in a field again while all 800 members on this forum sling rocks at him. Maybe he can tell us if there really is a 'cloud'  ;D OrangeDuck

Well if that's what it takes to get more attendees - then of course I'll do it, no problem :-)

Lasse C wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2007 at 4:36am:

Hmmmm... Let me think about that. Standing in a field, hearing the angry whirr of 800 glandes, possibly (probably) seeing them in a kind of cloud or swarm, knowing they were all aimed my way... :o I´d definitely need a stout helmet. And a full-body armour. And most likely a clean pair of shorts!  ;) Lasse C

Lasse C:

There is exactly one man in this world for whom I would stand 20 feet to the side of a target at 100 meters and point out his point of impact while he was sighting in a high powered rifle.  One.  Just one.

‘Tain’t no way I’m standing in a field and letting 60 to 800 slingers have their way with me.  Unless I’m inside an armored personnel carrier.

Trebuchet

:P

Oh come on nobody is going to miss a target by 20 feet with a rifle a 100 m.

On the other hand it's not a good comparison. Over that sort of distance a rifle bullet is practically instantaneous.

Slingers see the missile leave the sling and can point out whereabouts it's going to hit - so the observer can step the other way while looking at the area of impact (whihc is what we did). Obviously this is not possible with a rifle.

And judging by most of the slingers on this forum - if I'm stood anywhere near the 200 or  250 yard markers there are only going to be a very small number  of missiles coming anything like my way anyway :-)
It is easier to see something landing in front of you.

So it's pretty safe.

There's a phrase 'who wants to live forever ?'
I do :-) But that doesn't mean I have to live in a coddled ball of special safety regulations ;-)

Quote:

... So it's pretty safe...

 :o

I just hope that your pretty untrue statment will never hurt or kill somebody. It completely does not match slinging security rules, which are propagated on this forum.

Jurek

Curious Aardvark wrote on Oct 5^th, 2007 at 12:09pm:

Oh come on nobody is going to miss a target by 20 feet with a rifle a 100 m. On the other hand it's not a good comparison. Over that sort of distance a rifle bullet is practically instantaneous. Slingers see the missile leave the sling and can point out whereabouts it's going to hit - so the observer can step the other way while looking at the area of impact (whihc is what we did). Obviously this is not possible with a rifle. And judging by most of the slingers on this forum - if I'm stood anywhere near the 200 or  250 yard markers there are only going to be a very small number  of missiles coming anything like my way anyway :-) It is easier to see something landing in front of you. So it's pretty safe. There's a phrase 'who wants to live forever ?' I do :-) But that doesn't mean I have to live in a coddled ball of special safety regulations ;-)

C_A, my man, it is a violation of EVERY rule of firearms safety to be in front of the firing line when the range is "hot."  Repeated violations will get you kicked out of most US gun clubs.  Accidental (read "stupid") discharges happen; bullets bounce; a rock struck by a .308 suddenly turns into a fragmentation grenade.  Sorry to be hard-nosed, but that's the way I was taught and I believe in it. I couldn't believe it one day at the range when I was preparing to pepper a 100 meter target with my 10-.22 and something blue appeared at the edge of my scope.  I looked, and this son of a mule was walking downrange without even asking if the range could go "cold."  I got his car tag number and reported him to the range master.  They had some wall-to-wall counceling and it never happened again.

>:(

Trebuchet

Back to the point of the 800 slingers.  

That would not have been considered an overly large slinger cadre back in Julius Caesar's day.  Armies then routinely had a thousand or more, and the troops stood in such close areas, that a slinger batallion could pick out a particular cohort for abuse, and rain all their bullets on them.  Cavalry would have had worse times of it, I think, because horses probably get kinda edgy when there's unseen, buzzy things tearing holes in their flanks and hips.  

Pretty much every soldier was trained to use a sling, though not all were expert enough to be specialists...and they were frequently used in battles.  I don't know if you could say they were the tide turners, but they had their effect.  And I just imagine that if the enemy could get ahold of a slinger, it didn't go well with him.  

Thought I'd already agreed with you on the rifle front, no arguments there - standing in front of someone with a loaded gun is never a good idea.

My point was that it's just not a valid comparison. Sling missiles are clearly visible to the thrower and travel slow enough that the observer can be directed safely away from the impact zone while still being able to see the zone and note the point of impact.

And Yurek - stop being such an old woman.

Quote:

It completely does not match slinging security rules, which are propagated on this forum.

Hmm, and those are ?

None of which (I'm sure you'll come up with so much red tape it's a wonder you ever sling a stone anywhere) is relevant to the fact that individuals take responsibility for their own actions.

I'm pretty sure I haven't exhorted or suggested that anyone else do what I did - but then nobody else has the right to tell me not to do it either.

I don't believe I was taking any risks and in a situation like that it's my opinion and no one else's that matters.

A possible quote from an Iberian in the legion at the end of the Roman empire;  “mierda…dolor en mi cuerpo ..... que estoy muriendo de la sangría interna…..aye!!!!” ;)

Hey Roman historians out there, help me on this one, were the slinger and archers fighting from a concealed position in those days? If so were they  on the other side of the hill or at the zenith of a mountain or edge of a cliff? This would be an equivalent of a modern battlefield marksman. Well as the psychological effect anyway. Either way if you we caught within their range you would feel it. :'(

So curious_aardvark were you wearing any body armor or just standing in a field wearing a t-shirt?
You said the others hid behind cars.  Did you lose any windows?

Monster wrote on Oct 8^th, 2007 at 1:00pm:

So curious_aardvark were you wearing any body armor or just standing in a field wearing a t-shirt?

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 30^th, 2007 at 9:29am:

(safety equipment ? what kind of wimp do you think I am lol)