Hondero
Being that you live in Spain with it's history of many battles(Roman,Celt-Iberian),have you ever dug up any glandes? I know in Tennessee you can dig up lead bullets from Civil War battles.
Johnny

Yes, hereabouts both Romans and Celtiberians have used glandes in the wars and is very common to find them in many places. I´ve got a good collection, some hundred of them, someones found by myself but most given by friends or bought. With a good metal detector you could find amounts of glandes near archaeological places, but evidently it is forbidden  :-/ >:(  I´d like to have thousands of them.

Wow!   :o 8)  I don't suppose you ever throw them?

Quote:

...With a good metal detector you could find amounts of glandes near archaeological places...

Wow! What the grand lead supply! I would recast them to more fine new ones  ;D

Jurek ;)

I have a cousin who was a school teacher in Northern Greece during WWII and she told me that for a time many of her students would bring in the glandes that they dug up for show and tell.  She had collected so many that she gave them to the partisans to use for ammo.  

Sparticus, what a misadventure that of your cousin! I´ve heard similar stories, like to use archaeological vessels as target by workers at a gravel plant.

Hobb and Yurek, Ah guys... what do you say ??  ??? ;D... to throw or recast my precious glandes!!... with the ballistic information they have, and also the hidden stories they can own. They can have killed a Roman or can have been thrown by a long Balearic sling and surmonted the present distance record of distance. Some of them have a crush point that is telling they have flown point-first, but others have no marks and even a group of them have been not thrown and looks completely perfect, all identical, from the same  cast. Others have been remolded by hammer in differents ways to get special effects. Someones are very little, less than 20 gr and others, the Romans specially, are big, but the biggest is about 100 gr. Someones have very elongated points but others are paunchy or barrel shaped.

If someone in the forum have got some glandes it would be interesting to know information about size, shape, etc.

It must be quite strange to find mounds of small lead rugby balls if you don't know what they are.  In England, I have found some very old things, such as various pieces of Roman pottery, and also once the head of a pike from the civil war, up near the site of Marston Moor.  But I have never found anything I could actually use again.  It must be interesting to make new things out of such old things.

Hondero,

Yes, a misadventure indeed.  That is very true.  I caught friends of mine using slingshots on amphora vases that they found at a construction site.  Unfortunatly I arrived too late and only managed to save one vase of the five or so that they found.

Sparticus
You need to go back to Greece and talk to all the old timers and get some great stories about the sling!
Johnny

Hey Johnny,

I know.  I was in Greece last Oct. and visited my mom's village.  Unfortunatly most of the old timers have now past on.  I did get the chance to see a number of glandes on display in Athens and I did get to use my sling at the Parthenon.  Nearly got arrested for it, but it was alot of fun.

Hondero,

From what regions have you collected the glandes in Spain? Are they generally dispersed o gathered in a heap? Do you find them among the ruins of an old building or in the opened field?

Gracias.

Foner

Quote:

... Others have been remolded by hammer in differents ways to get special effects. Someones are very little, less than 20 gr and others, the Romans specially, are big, but the biggest is about 100 gr. Someones have very elongated points but others are paunchy or barrel shaped.

Hondero,

I'm trying to imagine, how ancient slings used for throwing those 20 g. glandes looked like. For effective throwing such light projetiles they should have a reduced air drag and supple pouches. The all ancient slings, which I saw on different pictures here, were rather solid. The ancient people hadn't "hi-tech" matherials though. Might it be, that they use those light glandes as shot?

Jurek

Foner,
The origin of these glades is various for most are bought or giving. They come from Andalucía, Extremadura, Castilla, Baleares, etc. According to the information I gathered, someones were found scattered around Celtiberian or Iberian ancient villages that were in war against the Romans. Others have appeared in reservoirs inside the villages or very close in Roman camps, probably in areas of training.
I havn´t got any from your land but I know archaeological references of glandes there too, like the reservoir in a defensive tower of the fortalice of "Puntal dels Llops" (Valencia).

Yurek,
Yes, it´s very surprising that the ancients could throw these little glandes. Even a normal glans does not match the ancient slings we know. I think the ancient slings kept, like Andean or Egyptian ones,  are for throwing stones. But I can imagine the Romans using a narrow strip of leather for throwing glandes, for instance. It´s an exciting field of research thought I think there is not any literary reference...  ::)
About throwing several little glandes together, I´ve tried it and don´t work, as they spread too much. Nevertheless this can be done with two half glandes, that can be thrown together like one, and then the grouping is good.

Hondero,


Quote:

...But I can imagine the Romans using a narrow strip of leather for throwing glandes, for instance...

Yeah, you might be right. For the distance practices I use the sling with the cradle made of the two narrow strips (reduced mgreenfield's design) and very thin cords. That sling is able to hurl as well 120 grams stones or so as 20 grams ones. I don't like very light stones but sometimes I find perfect shaped ones and then I use them. I was surprised when I had found, that they are able to reach great distances too. The smallest ones might weigh just about 20 grams. Surpassing the 200 distance with them isn't a big problem, if they don't get the "buzzy" fly.  Considering a much better the balistic coefficient of the lead glandes, we can suppose, that they might fly pretty far and be efficient at battle-fields.

Maybe, the ancient used so small ones, because they were able to carry a greater amount of the projectiles, and as a result were able to made a more lasting fire ???

Jurek

wrote on May 19^th, 2004 at 3:23pm:

. Maybe, the ancient used so small ones, because they were able to carry a greater amount of the projectiles, and as a result were able to made a more lasting fire ???

Quite possible :) ... and may be too that at short range the little ones penetrate easily, been realy as bloody as arrows   :o

Quote:

Yeah, you might be right. For the distance practices I use the sling with the cradle made of the two narrow strips (reduced mgreenfield's design) and very thin cords.

Jurek, ....those little x2-strip pockets DO indeed work well.  I'm not using anything else on new slings.  Question:  What are the dimensions of the narrow strips you mentioned??

Also, if you have to carry sling ammo very far, there IS indeed a lot to be said for smaller glandes.   I have a bag of about 60 homebrew clay glandes, ....most at 65grams, a few at 80grams.    It weighs between 9 & 10lbs, .....and that's just 60 shots.

mgreenfield

Hondero,

Most probably, the small glandes weren't as lethal as bigger ones but they was able to eliminate more enemies, mainly by hurting them only and breaking their moral. The power was in quanity.

Today I hurled a few very small oval stones (maybe about 2 cm (0.8") long). I heard their clear pops deep in the 200 m far-away forest, despite the noise of blowing wind  :o I wouldn't like to be hit by them  :-/

MGreenfield,

My leather strips are ca. 13 mm (1/2") wide and the lenght (between the holes) is 100 mm (4"). Before I used longer ones but I have shortened them, because that longer cradle lost stones too often. It is better now. I like that adjustable design.

Jurek

Too much good info to let be hidden in the back of the forum.
Worth reading the whole topic!!!!

Willeke