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General >> Project Goliath - The History of The Sling >> Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
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Message started by Johnny on Jul 6th, 2004 at 10:56am

Title: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 6th, 2004 at 10:56am
Here is a color sketch I did several years ago.
A left-handed Hebrew slinger of the tribe of Benjamin. You can read about them in the Bible under these verses: Judges 20:16, 1 Chronicles 12:2

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by mgreenfield on Jul 6th, 2004 at 12:42pm
...you're one talented guy with these drawings, Johnny!   Hooray for (us) lefties   ;D   mgreenfield

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Yurek on Jul 6th, 2004 at 5:33pm
Johnny, thanks for the next very nice picture to the collection. Keep posting them. Have you own wesite?

Jurek

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Foner on Jul 7th, 2004 at 3:26am
Nice picture!!! But, isn't the sling a little bit short?

Foner

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by zeluiz on Jul 7th, 2004 at 6:05am
Very Nice illustration!!
But I also think that the sling is a little bit short.

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 7th, 2004 at 9:18am
The sling is a little short.

Yurek
I don't have a website, maybe in the future.

Thanks
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hobb on Jul 7th, 2004 at 11:11am
The sling's not much shorter than what I'm learning to prefer.  Nwmanitou's figure-8 style is easier with the shorter sling, but just as powerful as shots from the longer sling.  Maybe your guy's just waiting for the bad guys to get close enough for the shorter, more accurate sling to be effective.

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hondero on Jul 7th, 2004 at 12:44pm
I think too that the sling is right in length for an accuracy slinger as left handed Hebrews were. Nice drawing. Have you thought to put together in a book the drawings and the historical text about? Do you want a collaborator?  ;D

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 7th, 2004 at 1:47pm
Hondero
If I could get some help, or a writer in general, I would love to put together a book on slinging. I think it would be a good seller, for there is nothing out on the market today on sling-making, sling history, etc....
I have many illustrations, and more to come, that would make a colorful and interesting book. What do we need to do to get started? Any takers?
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hondero on Jul 7th, 2004 at 5:38pm
Good!, :D  I could takecharge of the text. In fact it can easily be extracted from my book "Historia de la Honda", adapting the text to the new approach and perhaps limiting it to the part of old and medieval history, that I think is the most interesting. Other aspect would be the work of research on apparel and auxiliary weapons, etc, to make a trustworthy reconstruction of the slingers and the epoch. I think that this research of historical reconstruction could be done by both of us, investigating texts and analyzing illustrations of other authors. We would review the illustrations you have made before to adapt them, if necessary, to a particular text. Perhaps the book could include 30 or 40 illustrations and I would make a first version of the text in English and you would be in charge, directly or through another one, of its correction and adaptation to English style (my English, you know, is not good enough for direct publishing).
In order to publish the book( in English at first, and aftewards to others languages  ;D) it would be necessary  to find a publisher, but first of all we have to make a part of the book that serves like example to show to the publisher. We could begin working on particular historical passages and to go thus letting grow the book little by little.

When do we began? What about a title like "The sling, a historical weapon" or something like that?

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 7th, 2004 at 6:33pm
Hondero
I think you are right on!
I've got several people that could help you on the English text. Like you said, we need to get a sample chapter together with illlustrations and make a presentation to a publishing firm. I'll be looking at several publishing firms here in the states. Do you have some ideas on a sample topic (Balearic slingers?Greek slingers?)? I have an outline that I would like for you to see. I'll post it tomorrow.
Let me know what you think!
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by mgreenfield on Jul 7th, 2004 at 6:44pm
I been thinking of doing a short "Quick-Start To Slinging" write-up to get (almost) anybody started slinging as quickly, and with as few false starts as possible.    Safely, too, with tennis-ball practice and slinging gear, and vertical underhand spin.  Maybe an appendix for nwmanitou's overhand as an advanced form.   Any interest??

ALSO, I'm a technical editor with a deadly eye for misspellings unneeded words and cumbersome literary constructions.   Emphasis on technical editor.    Any interest??

mgreenfield

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Yurek on Jul 7th, 2004 at 7:22pm
Maybe I could add some chapter about physics of a sling. A bit of theory could make  the book more compherehensive. I have some own reflections and experiences on this matter. It would be great to create a group book about slinging.

Jurek

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 7th, 2004 at 9:48pm
I have no problem with everyone contributing!! The more the merrier! I just think we need to put something down in print that will help folks now and in future generations. Lets face it, most of us are self taught in the art of sling making and slinging. We need to share all the information that we have learned to help the next generation of slingers. This website has been a tremendous help and a wonderful storehouse of information. Also, I appreciate all of Chris' efforts. I've always wanted to do a book that has alot of illustrations and photos. More than a website would allow.
Any thoughts?
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Foner on Jul 8th, 2004 at 4:33am
It sounds to me like THE GREAT ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SLING. It would be like the summary of all the knowledge that humanity has till now about sling and slinging, just like the French did with the first encyclopedias during the Age of the Enlightenment.
As a journalist, I think I could help, at least in the writing and the structuring of the text.

By the way, I would like to propose the creation in this web page of committees or work groups on different topics related with slinging: history, technology (materials, etc.), literature, etc. They would work as research group investigating topics and elaborating papers that would be publish in the web. It would be a way of systematize the work that we already make here and to strengthen the cooperation.

Well, it is just an idea.

Foner.

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 6:02am
We have so many people on this website that have skills, knowledge and talent, that it would be a waste if we don't put something together!

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 6:40am
I forgot to ask our Spanish sling friends:

Did any of you run with the bulls on Wednesday?
No one got trampled or gored I hope!

Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Foner on Jul 8th, 2004 at 6:56am
Hey Johnny,

No, I didn't go to Pamplona to run with the bulls (I had to work), but I think they will do it again everyday of this week. So you're still in time to come to Spain and run with the bulls. Would you?
Let's see if Hondero has gone.

Foner

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 7:34am
Foner
I hope to visit Spain one day, but I can't come this week!!!
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Foner on Jul 8th, 2004 at 7:37am
Yes, I imagine you can't come this week. What I meant is if you would dare to run with the bulls.

Foner

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 7:54am
Foner
I don't think so!
Having permanent hoof prints on my back is not very appealing!
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hondero on Jul 8th, 2004 at 8:08am

wrote on Jul 8th, 2004 at 6:56am:
Hey Johnny,

No, I didn't go to Pamplona to run with the bulls (I had to work), but I think they will do it again everyday of this week. So you're still in time to come to Spain and run with the bulls. Would you?
Let's see if Hondero has gone.

Foner



No, I have not gone to Pamplona either. I have much precaution with the bulls :o, as is necessary to be familiarized with them to run ahead. Perhaps with a sling I´d dear to face them... >:(

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 8:19am
Hondero,
Here is a basic outline:

ANCIENT SLINGER
  1.Prehistory
  2.Biblical(Hebrew)
  3.Assyrian
  4.Greek
  5.Roman
  6.Balearic
  7.Various(Celtic,German, etc...)

MEDIEVAL AND MODERN
  1.Saxon,Norman,Arab
  2.Aztec,Inca,
  3.Palestinian

THE SLING AND PROJECTILES
  1.Anatomy of the sling
  2.Stones, lead, ceramic
  3.Darts(cestrosphendon)

SLING MECHANICS
  1.Overhand hurl
  2.Underhand hurl
  3.Horizontal hurl

MAKING A SLING
MAKING PROJECTILES
FINDING PROJECTILES

What do you think about this basic outline?
Thanks
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hondero on Jul 8th, 2004 at 11:44am
Johnny and enthusiastic collaborators, it´s a pleasure to see you encouraged to undertake so hard and extensive task, although exciting. I had thought about something shorter, just an illustrated historical summary of the sling, similar in extension to publications of Osprey, but with an extensive illustrated content on the basis of your drawings. We live in a time where the image is essential and has as much importance as the text, at least at the time of selling the book.

But if you guys are encouraged to begin a great Encyclopedia of the sling, I already started this way some years ago and maybe we can  continue the work from what I have done: they are 250 pages of text and pictures in DINA4 format that include history(mainly), physics, learning and training, construction, etc. They can be extended and enriched with yours good illustrations, Johnny, more historical references from countries in which I have not deepened too much, like some of Europe, America and Asia, and with studies in depth of dynamics (Yurek would be a good collaborator and perhaps others also), and techniques of construction and braiding (I´m thinking in Ben, who is missing, and others).  The Encyclopedia would be a great book, of 500 pages or more, plenty of illustrations and photographies. Another thing would be the high cost of edition and its commercial succes (there are not too many fans of the sling in the world).
In fact I´m having many difficulties to publish my sling books in Spain and finally I will do it to my expenses, possibly in an cheap edition and with images in black and white. But although one does not expect to earn one euro (or dollar), the satisfaction of well done work and the diffusion of the knowledge of the sling compensates the effort.

Your index is good, enough similar to the one of my books. I am going to translate my index to English and to post it.

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 12:00pm
Hondero
Great!
If you want to get an English text, just a small sample, to me, I'll start on some illustrations. In the mean time, I will get all of my illustrations scanned for review. Look for a color illustration on this site.
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Matthias on Jul 8th, 2004 at 12:47pm
You guys (we guys?) need a WIKI. I bet Chris needs a wiki like he needs a sling stone to the kneecap... but it would really be the way to go for trans-oceanic collaborative work like this. Johnny's outline post would then instantly become the working document, and collaborators could edit or make additions as thing progress (for instance, the sling braiders/reconstructors among us would like to see more emphasis placed on the "making sections ;D ) There is so much info already contained in the forums that the inital population would go pretty quickly.

I don't think there are any drop-in wikis for YABB, but they should co-exist reasonably.

Matthias

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Mithras on Jul 8th, 2004 at 2:17pm
Hi Johnny,

A commendable project - and something worthy of your amazing artistic talents!! I was recently considering doing my Masters degree in the history of the sling in the Mediterranean area (I have a degree in Ancient History), so would definately have an eye on that particular topic :)

BTW: I've written four books so far on obscure historical subjects (mainly cults, assassins and secret societies...!) under my RL name Paul Elliott.

I think Hondero is right - a shorter more concise book on the history would better be served by your illustrations and suit the market also.

That said, I would like to postulate a shorter, different index:

  1.Introduction - What is the sling? Why was it used, etc? Use in prehistory. Evidence?
  2.Biblical (Assyrian/Babylonian/Hebrew/Arab/Egyptian)
  3.Greek & Rhodian etc. plus cestros
  4.Roman & Balaeric
  5.Byzantine slings & Staff Sling
  6.Barbarian Slingers (Celtic, Dacian, German, etc)
  7. Construction methods with modern recreations of slings and bullets. What about photos of modern re-enactors! I'm teetering on the edge of getting together a Greek slingers costume complete with high boots, sunhat, tunic, stone pouch and maybe chalmys (travelling cloak).

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 2:27pm
Mithras
I think your index is great!
I forgot about the staff sling! Good thinking!
What about this being an Osprey Warrior Series book? They seem to be open for new subjects. I've done some illustrations for Osprey and they seem to be a nice, good group to work with.
Thanks
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Mithras on Jul 8th, 2004 at 2:36pm
We could just refine that index a little and pad each section out with content, enough to give a good idea about each section. I'd love to approach Osprey via e-mail with the tentative proposal :) They'll most likely want to see a fully worked up MS before they give the go ahead, though. But what the heck - that would be a very nice autumn project!

What do you think?

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 2:49pm
I don't see why we can't get several book ideas in the works. I think something for Osprey and something different. Are you familiar with the "Bowyers Bible" series? A large group of archers/bowyers got together and wrote different chapters on how to build bows, arrows, strings, etc.... I would like to see a book like that about slinging. Something where folks on this website could contribute.
Any thoughts?
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hondero on Jul 8th, 2004 at 5:28pm
Another index, now for the Encyclopedia project ;D:


HISTORY

INTRODUCTION. THE SLING

PREHISTORY
Paleolíthic: The discovery of the sling
Upper Paleolíthic
Neolíthic

ANCIENT HISTORY
First civilizations
First Iron Age
Mediterranean World
Greeks
Carthagineans and  Balearics
Romans

MIDDLE AGE

MODERN AGE
The Renaissance
The time of Discoveries
Aztecs
Incas
Central Pacific
North America

THE SLING TO THE PRESENT TIME
SLINGS FROM AROUND THE WORLD
PROJECTILES
SPREADING OF THE SLING

WEAPONS RELATED TO THE SLING
Bolas
Staff-sling
Cestrosphendon



HANDBOOK

Introduction
The sling and its parts
Mechanics of the sling
Types of slings
Construction
Projectiles
Learning

About the short project we have to know previously what the possible publisher will demand to us: a sample and the plan of the book, or the full work.  A new Osprey serie (Weapons) would be great!

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 7:00pm
Hondero
That is fabulous!
Do you have a sample text that I could read?
Do you have the slinging article by Manfred Korfmann published in Scientific American magazine? I can send you a copy if you like.
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by longwinger on Jul 8th, 2004 at 9:35pm
Hi Johnny,
Is the Scientific American article available online?
Oscar

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Johnny on Jul 8th, 2004 at 9:46pm
Not that I know of.
I don't mind making copies and sending them out.
Want one?
Johnny

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Foner on Jul 9th, 2004 at 1:42am
Johnny,

Well, if you don't mind I would like to have a copy of that article.  Can't wait to see more of your drawings !!!
Thanks.

Foner

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hondero on Jul 9th, 2004 at 2:16am
Johnny, yes I know the excellent Korfmann article. I´ll extract a sample text from the book, maybe about Balearics that is a good topic on sling, and also you have already made some drawings about them.  But the problem for me will be the english translation. I´m  enough busy and it will takes to me a lot of time (I´m incredibly slow translating to english and Altavista translations are unintelligibles without a massive correction)  ???. If we could find a bilingual buddy in the forum who like to collaborate, the thing would be easier. Also I have to find the english version of texts from Livy and others authors that I include relative to Balearics.

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Foner on Jul 9th, 2004 at 2:18am
Hondero,

Have you tried to get your book published by the FEDERACIÓ BALEAR DE TIR DE FONA.

Or maybe you could get money from the Balear Government. I'm sure they have a part of their budget for this cultural activities.

Anyway, it would be great if I could read that book.

Foner.

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hondero on Jul 9th, 2004 at 2:49am
Foner,
I know from many years ago the kind people from Federacion Balear and had some friends there, like Mateu and Martí, but I have lost the contact at present. Of course they know my book from time ago but as good nationalists I think they would like to make their own History book of Balearic sling, and of course in catalán.
My book was to be published by Comunidad Autonoma de Madrid and they spent enough money in the preparation of the edition, but lastly the project came down due to people changes in the Comunidad.
This winter I´ll publish by my self an improved new version, as the copies of the present one are finished.
I´ll tell you about.

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Foner on Jul 9th, 2004 at 4:48am
Hondero,

I don't have much time now either, but I can help you with the translation. I hope I learned some English during the year I lived in Michigan :)

Foner

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hondero on Jul 9th, 2004 at 5:14pm
Foner,
Thanks for your collaboration! I´ll try to summarize in a few pages las andanzas y correrías mediterráneas de los honderos baleares al servicio de Cartago y Roma. Te lo enviaré a tu correo privado.

Salud

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Chris on Aug 2nd, 2004 at 1:57pm
I would be interested and dedicated to completing a volume on the sling if people are willing to commit to this endeavor.  I have set up a separate board on the forum specifically for this project.  Interested people should contact me so we can make it formal, with a mailing list.

Chris
info@slinging.org

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Gun on Aug 2nd, 2004 at 2:26pm
What is going on with the other board? What is going to be on there? And is slinging.org getting a mailing list?

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Hobb on Aug 2nd, 2004 at 4:32pm
Don't know if this will help, but I've got some small training in proof-reading, editing, English-as-a-second-language tutoring, that kind of thing.  I'll pitch in if I'm needed.

Title: Re: Hebrew slinger 1000B.C.
Post by Chris on Aug 2nd, 2004 at 4:50pm
Post questions in the other thread.  

Yes, everyone can help out.  I want to discuss this further with some of the guys that first proposed this: (Johnny, Hondero, Matthias, Foner, Mithras, Yurek).  I'll propose a more descriptive way we should progress, get some feedback, and we'll go from there.

Chris

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