i would like to get some info on making ammo ;DI know you can make clay balls or footballs and then bake them, but does anybody have any details?i know that you can buy clay pretty cheaply at michaels or wal-mart.i havent gotten around to it but maybe somebody else has.?

I made some ceramic projectiles (american football shaped).  Some were just sun dried and others were fired in a kiln.  They were pretty cool to sling and fly well too.  I put up an article about it on the site: "Roman glandes, projectile tests".  There really isn't any details on how to make the clay ones because it's so simple! :)  Just get hold of some clay, kneed it like dough to get the air, shape it, and heat it up to 1000 degrees (or something high.  It varies by clay type).  

You can also cast bullets out of lead (or other metals).  Here is a picture of a cast used to make lead projectiles like the romans, you might have seen it before.

http://www.slinging.org/images/bullets.jpg

That is a pretty cool picture Chris. I did not know you could cast lead in a wood mold.

An alternative would be to use a bullet mold for black powder rifles or a mold for fishing weights. You may be able to find these at some of the larger sporting good stores. Of course you will need molds that make round bullets or round/oval fishing weights. I doubt conical bullets or pyramid fishing weights would fly well.

chris, do your wood molds were out. Does the wood burn when you put the lead in it or did you treat it?
How did you make the molds, and how heavy (in grain) are your projectiles?

This mold isn't mine.  It's a picture from the Petris museum in London I believe.  They were making authentic glandes to do some range testing.  They've also unearthed what I think is the oldest surviving sling... from roman times!

http://www.petrie.ucl.ac.uk/search/detail/Images/13/UC6921.jpg

http://www.petrie.ucl.ac.uk/search/detail/results/detail.asp?01_objectidentifier=UC6921

The newer looking one is a recreation.  It had a special woven pouch they tried to copy with the device in the top left.  

Also, for people wondering about roman projectile sizes, the have several in their catalogue, and they are all about 3.2 to 3.8 cm.

example:
http://www.petrie.ucl.ac.uk/search/detail/results/detail.asp?01_objectidentifier=UC63354

Brent,

I'm just new to all this but I am experimenting with concrete. I made one by cutting a tennis ball almost in two and filling it with concrete. I am going to make some more out of 5000psi concrete to see if the extra stength will make them last significantly longer. The problem is the fact that they say it takes about 28 days to fully harden so I will have to wait for the real test. I am going to try out some next week though. I will go a place with sand or dirt piles and see how they do. I also plan on bringing some 3/4" plywood to see what damage the stone does to it and what damage it does to the stone. I will let you know.

David

I have tried several types of ammo, and rocks of course. They are easy to pick up and throw, just not accurate. Golf balls seem to curve right much and for me, too light. I made a mold from a golf ball and filled it with fast setting mortar which, with the extra weight, worked well. Also tried fast setting hobby plaster...too light. But, what I like to do is sling, not make ammo for hours before hand. The more time per missle, the more value it has. I hate to throw something of value. SOOOO, I tried eggs(they can't handle the Gs) UNLESS they are frozen!!!! Cheap (out of dates are free), quick, easy to make and fun to throw.

Todd,

I am deffinately with you on wanting to spend more time throwing than making ammo! The frozen egg idea is interesting.

I really feel the challemge of getting accurate and consistant which takes lots of practice, consistant size shape and weight ammo. I have thought of getting some old indoor-outdoor carpet and hanging up a couple 12'x12' pieces to shot at. The concrete balls I am making would then just hit and fall to the ground. I think that a drop cloth would wear out too fast?

Anyone else try anything like that?

Oh, by the way, hey are clearing out the nice fields behind our house to build so it is all flat and open dirk. I stepped over our fence and slung my new 2" concrete stone a few times. Man does it go straight! I measured out 390' with my 28" sling. I want to see what I can do with my longer one.

one trouble with making ammo is losing it.but,i have an answer.go to micheals or an art store and buy the clay brand Sculpey,yep i spelled it right,buy the atomic orange color its really blaze orange but they call it atomic orange. blaze orange is proven to be the easiest color to see i twilight and daylight by the government so if you buy blaze orange Sculpeymake it into a ball  and bake it you wont easily lose your ammunition.
Brent    

Today I tried to make some lead ammo,I put the scap lead in to a small cast-iron pot and put it in my propane grill,70min later it had melted. Now let's talk about my mold, it's basicaly a bucket of sand,my idea was to poke holes in the sand with my finger and pore the lead in. Unfortionatly by the time the lead had melted (621 dgs. ) I could not hold on to the handle of the pot for more than 1 or 2 sec., so I decided to let it cool a little. Once it cooled a bit I started pouring. On the second glande the lead hadend completly mid pour so I had to stop. But I did get two funny looking glandes out of it which were cool in 2 min. But they were to small


(p.s.if one of you tells me how to post pictures. I will show you one)

Hey Todd,
This egg idea sounds really wierd to me.  What kind of accuracy do you get with them?  Wouldn't that be fun: throwing frozen, rotten eggs at the enemy...

Eggs are a nice shape for slinging! A while back we had a discussion about using (I think) "Jello" easter-egg molds to cast concrete or plaster ammo. If you can get nice "rifle-spin" shots, the shape should be nicely accurate, and fly well too. Not enough eggs just lying around near me, but if you liveled in chicken country I suppose that they would make good ammo!

Nathan, If you send the pictures to Chris at info@slinging.org, he will upload them for you and reply with the tags to embed the photos in your post. I'd like to see your "authentic" finger-glandes and I bet a lot of others would too!

Matthias

I live in ohio and there is lots and lots of clay in the ground. So i recruted my little brothers and dug some up. we wetted it, made it into a football shape and sun dryed it. They broke up in the air and sent shrapnal like clay bits all over. I dont have a kiln but i will try cooking it in a fire. and i think i will try making lead molds.

Im new, so little question...

With the lead molds, can you go to like a county store, and pick up a big chunk of lead  ??? or just melt down fishing weights and stuff?


Thanks
Chris

Go to you local hunting, fishing, or shooting store. All shooting stores should have lead ingents there for people how cast bullets. Tire shops also have lead from old tire weights. Talk to them and they might give them to you or for very cheap.

You can make a good cheap lead mold out of plaster of paris. Mold your glandes shape out of wax and cast your plaster around it. Make sure it's vertical in the mold. When it sets drill down to the top point of the wax glandes. Then, bake the whole thing to melt the wax out and harden it. Take a thin jigsaw blade and carefully cut the plaster mold into two halves. When you're ready, clamp the two halves together and pour in the molten lead, then let cool. It helps if you chamfer the hole you pour the lead into. The method is cheap and easy to make multiple molds. Does this help everybody? If it does, please post some shots of your ammo.

Some of you pro aerodynamics geeks need to verify somethinfg for me please.

I am going to make some lead glands with fins molded into them to see if it will make them fly exta staight.

Assuming that I am right handed and using an OVERHAND cast, the spin caused by the release is in a clockwise or left to right direction. I am sure this is correct.

My question is: if the gland is in front of you and pointed straight ahead, would the fins need to be running diagonally from front right to back left on the gland to give it the same rotation as the release? If they are not in the right direction they will be fighting the rotation caused by the release.

I apreciate the input ;D

I am thinking about making the front point of the gland being able to accept some type of arrow type tip that would give it cutting action for penitration. Something that would screw into it and not be too bulkie to hang up in the pouch.

A right-handed slingster, pitching overhand, with the retained cord on bird or ring finger and hanging outside the fist, should release glandes with a clockwise spin as seen going away from the slingster.   So any fins on a glande should run from front right toward rear left.  mgreenfield

It will be a pain to get this "right". The twist is same as a rh screw, like you both said, but the angle is going to be important too. Get it wrong to either side and the fins will be slowing down the glans (trying to spin faster if too shallow a pitch and slowing it down if too steep). Add to this the disturbance to the flow and I'm not certain that you have a winning proposition. The force exerted by the small fins over a short moment arm will probably be too small to fight the "gyro stabilisation" effect of the spin as well, but we'll never know unless you try! I expect that they will look pretty trick no matter what 8)

You want to try a couple of experiments for the sake of advancement of sling physics David? (and you other rifle-spinners out there?) Pick of some plastilene clay and make some prototype projectiles (if you are keen make them bi-colour!) and then throw them close range at a solid wall. Photograph the results. Then throw them long range at a wall (hitting the proverbial "broad side" ;)) and compare. I would like to see the attitude at impact...

Might be worthwhile for testing ideas like fins as well if you have a range where you can recover ammo and they wont get _too_ dirty. Make the test glandes big enough for appropriate weight and the effects will scale down for lead. If the clay available is too soft, bringing a bucket or cooler of icewater should stabilise them nicely.

Matthias

Thanks Guys for the quick replies!

I too am wondering how much, if any, useful effect fins will have on a heavy lead gland in short range. I would bet almost none if I had to make a bet. Perhaps long range 50+ yards. Ranger is not the issue in my expirement.

I mainly want to try it in order to assure a point first hit at 20-30 yards. Don't you think a 4-5 ounce gland with a sharp point would penitrate an animal? Wild Pig or Turkey?  I came within 8 ft of a wild tukey at 50 yards while on vaction. It was on a dirt road near our cabin and I stopped the car and took the shot. I then followed it through the woods a few hundred yards hoping for another shot.

I have not puchased my 20'x20' netting yet but I do have an old trampoline I can stretch out and test the shots.

Yes, I plan to test some plaster ones first. We will see?

I used to punch holes in things with my sling, but you sort of lose track of how much power you are actually putting behind your projectile when most of your shots go out into the ocean. Pegging my ballistic pendulum to the ceiling a couple of times was an eye opener - I'd underestimated by about 3 the mass needed to absorb the impact force. Equally impressive is the flattened diameter of the clay glans on impact with the wall when I miss the target. Methinks at close range, pretty much any projectile is going to pulverise a turkey, let alone penetrate it ;D

Matthias

Matthias wrote on Aug 14^th, 2004 at 3:06pm:

I used to punch holes in things with my sling, but you sort of lose track of how much power you are actually putting behind your projectile when most of your shots go out into the ocean. Pegging my ballistic pendulum to the ceiling a couple of times was an eye opener - I'd underestimated by about 3 the mass needed to absorb the impact force. Equally impressive is the flattened diameter of the clay glans on impact with the wall when I miss the target. Methinks at close range, pretty much any projectile is going to pulverise a turkey, let alone penetrate it ;D Matthias

Must agree. I once used to sling T.V glass at squirrels that tended to eat stuff I did not want them to eat. I tried asking them to stop. They ignored me... T.V glass chunks, about 1/2 oz each, slung from a "shotgun" sling, can easily remove a squirrel's head, nearly cut it in half( if I make them longer... they would), or literally "split" its head and half the body in two. its quite impressive. I used a 25 inch sling.

squirrelslinger wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 2:59am:

T.V glass chunks, about 1/2 oz each, slung from a "shotgun" sling, can easily remove a squirrel's head, nearly cut it in half( if I make them longer... they would), or literally "split" its head and half the body in two. its quite impressive. I used a 25 inch sling.

:o

I was trawling for info on slingstones and glans plumbata dimensions only to find this.

Masiakasaurus wrote on Apr 21^st, 2013 at 11:16am:

squirrelslinger wrote on Feb 11th, 2013 at 2:59am: T.V glass chunks, about 1/2 oz each, slung from a "shotgun" sling, can easily remove a squirrel's head, nearly cut it in half( if I make them longer... they would), or literally "split" its head and half the body in two. its quite impressive. I used a 25 inch sling. :o I was trawling for info on slingstones and glans plumbata dimensions only to find this.

LOL, back when I used to hunt pests with a sling. You want me to take pics once I get another one?

That's the only thing I know of that would make C_A wig out.

he does have a point :whistle:

A thread entitled 'look how much I can mutilate a squirrel with slung glass' will very definitely be a bad idea :-)

Brent wrote on Sep 13^th, 2003 at 7:07pm:

one trouble with making ammo is losing it.but,i have an answer.go to micheals or an art store and buy the clay brand Sculpey,yep i spelled it right,buy the atomic orange color its really blaze orange but they call it atomic orange. Make it into a ball  and bake it you wont easily lose your ammunition. Brent

Hi, just wondering, what kind of results can I get merely baking clay?  Is there a good way to make a homemade kiln?

Regular clay air-dried is excellent ammo. It dissolves when wet and shatters on impact with hard surfaces but it is very easy to make, just roll them up in your hands and leave them to dry in a warm place for a few days.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2476/3752800797_1e16087a13_o.jpg

What David said.  I fire mine, I have a kiln and I pit fire, also.  It makes good ammo even better, the fired clay will break pine boards.  But, you still lose it so I usually just make up some and let it sit until I have a load of pots to fire.

Thanks for the advice!

David- excellent photo with the balance scale!  I thought that a simple balance would make a great way to get consistent clay pieces.

Bill- if you don't mind sharing, how do you make the pit fire?  I would like to know how to do that.  I "fired" a clay ball by putting in my wood stove when it was nice and hot (on the top of one of the fire bricks), and it seemed to get pretty hard, but I'm not sure it was actually fully fired.

I've fired dozens of clay ammo and other clay stuff succesfully in my wood stove. They get glowing orange inside.

That's all you have to do, heat them up until they glow.  In the process you will learn that firing clay glandes with moisture in the center will make them expolde like red hot bombs, laying them on the ground will cause them to wick up moisture and crack and just how much wood it takes to heat up a pile of clay glandes to glowing.

Seriously, you build a raging bonfire and let it burn down, this dries out the ground for a couple of inches and helps stop breakage.  Next, rake the coals out in a circle, exposing your dry ground.  Put down a layer of broken but fired clay glandes.  Put your unfired glay glandes, (that you put in the stove overnight at a temp just below boiling) on the broken clay glandes.  This will keep them from wicking up moisture.  If you are using plain mud, they will start to get dark as the organics in the clay start to char.  When they stop getting darker, start adding fuel to the coals in the circle until the fire starts burning, then keep adding fuel until the pile of glandes are completely covered and you have another raging bonfire.  Let the fire burn down, come back and get your glandes the next day.  Drop one in a bucket of water, it won't crumble if it is fired.  And place your dry glandes around the first bonfire to pre warm, you want to get them hot enough that you can't pick them up comfortably with your bare hand.  I start mine about a meter out and move them closer, keep turning them as they get closer, you want to get them pretty warm, this gets any water out and don't set them on the ground while waming, use a sheet of metal.

I can't really justify the resources for lead/fired clay glandes at the moment--much to my dismay--so I use mortar mix. Simply form each gland when the mix is thick. Let them dry/cure, and voila! Ahistorical, but they can be reused for quite awhile--or at least until they chip on a rock, or shatter on something hard. :P

Although it does takes some effort to get the mix just right. You also practically have to mix one glands' worth at a time, since the quick-dry stuff tends to harden significantly in the time it takes to mold each glande just right.
But I gotta say: Morphy's (Or at least I think it was Morphy) method of using an old ice cream scooper leveled off makes a perfect proportions for 3 to 3 1/2 oz glandes, depending on the scooper you choose :)

Thanks guys - I didn't know it was such a process for the clay!  If you do a good-sized batch though I think it would be worth it.  I make charcoal with a pit method, and I wonder if somehow I could heat the clay with that..

The mortar/concrete ideas sound good too.

Has anyone put dimples in their ammo to try to duplicate the aerodynamics of golf balls?

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1357165233