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Message started by lobohunter on Aug 26th, 2005 at 4:39pm

Title: underhand done across the shoulder video
Post by lobohunter on Aug 26th, 2005 at 4:39pm
underhand style, with the sling across the shoulders and behind the neck
I have been trying this lately. I like it a lot. throw much like our traditional over hand. Just pull the pouch tight. let go with non throwing hand. While whipping under handed with the throwing hand. with a little practise I can Actuly get rapid reload going. Seems to be easier to throw what I call "rabbit punchers" with (you know low flying under hand releases)
Just thought I would share lol.http://media.putfile.com/underhand67

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by TechStuf on Aug 26th, 2005 at 6:36pm
Sounds like a technique which engenders high consistency.....and therefore accuracy.  Can't wait to try it!


TS

8)

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by Dale on Aug 26th, 2005 at 7:30pm
Let me see if I understand this:
Sling cords in right hand (I'm dexter), cords run up from my hand to my right shoulder, over said shoulder and around back of my neck, across left shoulder and down in front to my left hand which holds the pocket and rock.
Tug on the cords, hold the rock.  Let go the rock while still tugging, sling zips up, over my shoulder, around my neck ... OH, got it!  The rock is going to zip over my shoulder, start around my neck but its momentum is going to carry it back BEHIND my neck, and from there I turn it into an underhand cast!

Lobohunter, I'm working entirely from imagination, I don't have a sling on me.  I'm going to try this when I get home, and if you don't hear from me again it means the rock hit my head instead of zipping around it...

I've got a way to carry a loaded sling that sounds similar, but you end up with an OVERHAND swing: my sling arm is bent, with my hand about mid-chest; the cords run up and over my LEFT shoulder and down my back; the pocket hangs at about the bottom of my ribs, with a rock in it.  When I want to throw, I straighten my arm which pulls the pocket up my back, over my shoulder and out in front.  Presto, I've got an overhand wind-up swing going, I can continue into a MagnumSlinger overhand or a figure-8.

Edit (April 27 2006): I just watched LoboHunter's video.  The above description of what I thought he was doing, is complete nonsense.  Ignore what I wrote, watch his video.

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by tint on Aug 26th, 2005 at 11:20pm
Wasn't there a statue of David holding the sling that way? with the poch on his left shoulder and right hand close to his right hip.  Looked like his was casually loading the sling for this style.

Dale

That's a cool way to start an overhead swing!  You can do it while singing the national anthem with your right arm across your chest like that ;D~!

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by tint on Aug 26th, 2005 at 11:46pm
I found a few links to the statue I was talking about:

http://vlsi.colorado.edu/~rbloem/david.html

http://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/mich/images/fd35h-csh-s-and-bfd41h-csh-s.jpg

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by tint on Aug 26th, 2005 at 11:51pm
The statue was by Michael Angelo.

I thought the pose was solely for artistic reasons until I try it out myself!

I hope I didn't misunderstand your describtion, Lobohunter.  

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by Dale on Aug 27th, 2005 at 11:26am
OK, I did not hit myself in the head.

I clipped myself in the chin...

Tried Lobo's over-the-shoulder underhand with five-ounce rocks, 25-inch and 31-inch slings.  The shorter one is the sling I hunt stumps with, Apache style; the longer is my preferred sling for figure-8.

First trial cast with a tennis ball: out of the pocket as it came up over my neck, ball went off to the right, dog is laughing at me.

Tried tossing the ball instead of just pulling it out of my hand.  Better, off to my left.  I had thought it would swing out in front of me, not so.  Tried again, left shoulder to target, ball went about where I wanted it.

Tried rocks, left shoulder to target, short sling.  Rock slipped out, went right.

Tossed rock instead, better.  Rock went left.  'Way left of target.  Needs work.

Tried longer sling.  Rock skipped across collarbone, bounced off jawbone just left of chin, swung around neck and off to the left, followed closely by expletives.

Tried tossing the ball instead of pulling again.  Better.  Still needs work.

Fun style, Lobohunter!  I'll get it down eventually.

Tint, that statue of David is awesome.  Michaelangelo did some fine work.  I wonder if he knew any slingers, or that was just artistic?  The sling is too long for Lobo's style; you would want to toss the stone up and back and then whip it into a side-arm release, I would think.

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by TechStuf on Aug 27th, 2005 at 12:28pm
Dale, you are almost there....it is in between sidearm and underhand.  Great for those 'ground bounder' shots at smaller game.

Amazing, the things one can continually be shown about such a simple sport.  And a worthy addition to my repertoire, to be sure.

Thanks again Lobo.


Peace,


TS

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by lobohunter on Aug 27th, 2005 at 3:50pm
Hey your welcome tech.
I was teaching a work shop on the sling and it just dawned on me. Hence I taught under hand that way as I thought of it. LoL

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by sv on Aug 27th, 2005 at 5:10pm
lobohunter i tried this today, it's simple and hard hitting. that's a third throw to add to my greek overhand,  plus sidearm . cheers!
sv

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by drum_slinger on Aug 30th, 2005 at 8:59am
I'm having trouble getting this down right, could someone who's done it post pics or video to help me out, sounds like a good style for how I want to sling

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by Dale on Aug 30th, 2005 at 4:06pm
Drum_slinger, What part are you having trouble with?  Getting the sling in the right starting place?  Or swinging it?

I would like to see a video of this myself.  But I do not have a video camera, so I'll have to make do with a description of what I do.

Lobohunter: please let me know if this sounds like I'm doing it right?  Thanks!

Note added April 27, 2006: Despite what Lobo said about the accuracy of my description of his style (next post), my description bears little resemblance to what I saw Lobo doing in his video (there is a link to it in the first post of this topic).  Please ignore the description below and go watch Lobo's video.

You just drape the sling across your shoulders, so that the pocket and the ends of the cords hang in front of you.  If you pulled on the pocket and the cords, you would be bending your neck as the sling pulls it down and forward.

I had a little trouble with the start of this style.  I believe I mentioned I clipped myself in the jaw.  Lobohunter apparently did not have this problem.  But if I toss the pocket up and to the left, as I pull to the right and down on the cords, it works for me (I am right-handed, by the way).  The stone in the pocket  moves up and to the left, back over my left shoulder, then behind my back and down as my right hand drops (pulling the cords).  The stone continues down and to my right side as I begin to bend my arm and pull it across in front of my body.  The stone continues down, now moving to the left, and I release as the stone passes in front of my legs.

Usually, my underhand shots overshoot the target, sometimes by many feet.  With this style, I am more consistently releasing the stone in a low, flat, straight trajectory.

Now, if I could get better control of my direction!  I am consistently shooting too far to the left...

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by lobohunter on Sep 2nd, 2005 at 2:54pm
Dale you sound like your right on target.
I wish I could do a vid. maybe later right now I am in Trasition. Maybe a simple  example would be do what you do with over hand when you hold the pouch.
Except for underhand have the string behind you instead in front. and the grasping non throwing arm higher as to clear your shoulder and chin. Dale i thin the reason I have never cliped my chin might be i use a 43 inch thing. Also this style came natral to me. but it is just the bacward version of my over hand

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by drum_slinger on Sep 3rd, 2005 at 5:11pm
I'm having trouble swinging the loaded sling, I cant get good rotations in the right place and keep wrapping the cords around my neck or I hit my shoulder

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by Dale on Sep 3rd, 2005 at 6:11pm
Hmmm... Maybe you could describe exactly what you are doing.  I'm not sure I understand.

If I have Lobohunter's style correct, then the sling rotates through just about a full circle from start to release.  It sounds like you are doing multiple rotations?

No, about three-quarters of a revolution.  Go watch Lobo's video.  Link in the first post in this topic.

By the way, Sv's description (in the next post, below) of how he is doing Lobo's style, sounds EXACTLY like what I SAW Lobo doing in his video.  Congratulations, Sv, you "listen" better than I do!

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by sv on Sep 3rd, 2005 at 8:44pm
i was starting with the pocket behind my left shoulder, held by my left heand before the shot commences. then bringing it round behind my back, then forwards and upwards from the right hip
sv

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by Tito on Sep 4th, 2005 at 9:42pm
i think that i am still a bit in the dark over this. i get the gist of what you guys are talking about but i am having trouble visualizing exactly what is happening >:(. does anyone have a video camera so it is clear what to do?
Thanks
Tito

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by drum_slinger on Sep 5th, 2005 at 9:19am
Tito, I have the same problem, I'm glad I'm not the only one, I hope someone has a video camera because that would make it so much clearer for me.

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by David_T on Sep 5th, 2005 at 6:39pm
Dito

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by KingSamalon on Sep 6th, 2005 at 2:32pm
   Yesterday, I tried to throw a stone from exactly the same position as the statue of david (Michaelangelo).  But I pulled it tight across my back, turned the palm of my throwing hand out, put tension and let it pop up overhand...very straight (despite the half-twist of the cords) and VERY hard...worked for me.  I wasnt trying over the whole neck as some are suggesting...just sayin.

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by drum_slinger on Sep 6th, 2005 at 5:17pm
could u post video of your new style then, that would work for me too

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by A_C on Sep 6th, 2005 at 9:54pm
Just tried it. I liked it, but it felt wierd. I wish I could have gone another rotation to build up more speed, but that would have defeated the purpose.

Tried a side-arm variation but I almost ended up taking my ear off.  ;)

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by KingSamalon on Sep 7th, 2005 at 12:20am
Sure...all i can make are crappy digicam vids but I'm going out to the woods again in a day or so...and yeah its awkward but its fast...I tried it, thinking that maybe that statue was posed like that for a purpose...because Goliath (a soldier) at that time would have known to be wary of a slinger...so in my mind David would have had more than enough of this monster, and just walked right out with his sling concealed behind his back, probably talking trash and getting laughed at until SPLAT...no more threat...a shot so good it became legend.

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders
Post by lobohunter on Sep 9th, 2005 at 3:05pm
i use mutiple rotations because after the dropping of the pouch It turns into a normal under hand throw.I just like the ability to start ina more ready position with the underhand style after the stone is released the sling may thenbe brought back to a more ready position.there by being able to use the rapid reload tech

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders (video)
Post by lobohunter on Jan 20th, 2006 at 7:33pm
just bringing forward so chris can add video

Title: Re: underhanded statue of David
Post by ChuckRocks on Jan 26th, 2006 at 7:20am
Ok, I just checked out the David statue.
The naked one of uncircumcised David by Michelangelo (not the Turtle) shows him holding something in his left hand and draped over his left shoulder like Frank Sinatra with his raincoat.
This is not the slinger pose.

The David statue you want is by Bernini, not Michelangelo. => David_by_Bernini

Which I think is the better of the two anyway.
Forget Donatello’s statue of flaming David.

Bernini shows David with his sling in a hunter stance.
Does anyone else throw this way?

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders (vid
Post by Matthias on Jan 26th, 2006 at 3:50pm
The original discussion in this thread was talking about Michaelangelo's David, posed with the sling draped over the shoulder. This doesn't look much like an action shot, but Lobohunters setup for and underhandthrow works pretty cleanly starting from this somewhat "relaxed" looking pose.

The statue posted by ChuckRocks shows a much more dynamic posture.

I had trouble with the link above, or at least it's very slow to load, but we have some images of Bernini's David in the media section: http://www.slinging.org/historyrelatedgallery.html Google images also turns up lots of different angles.



I thought we'd talked about this one before, but I can't find anything in the search. It looks to me like he is setting up for an overhand throw, something that is also suggested by Bernini's other slingers.

David is holding the projectile palm down in his left hand, while pivoted to place his right foot forward. His right hand is drawn back low and behind his hip. The tension in the statue suggests the moment just before he releases the stone.

It seems like the most likely throw is a simple drop down on the right side while stepping forward with the left foot and whipping the sling over the top in a no-windup overhand. There is always room for an extra fig-8 type turn in there but the starting pose looks a little too powerful to me.

Let's hear some experiences with this windup...

Matthias

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulders (video)
Post by person3 on Jan 27th, 2006 at 8:13pm
getting back on topic... i know pig latin 8)

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shouldersvideo
Post by lobohunter on Feb 2nd, 2006 at 9:20pm
All right folks the movies is finaly here sit back get your pop corn and relax for thirty seconds lol

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shouldersvideo
Post by Matthias on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 12:14am
Close lobo... The link you included in the first post doesn't seem to lead anywhere. Maybe try again?

Matthias

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shouldersvideo now
Post by Taiki on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 4:43pm
indeed i thought something wasn't right couldn't figure out what it was.. then i got it there seemded not to be a video  :o

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shouldersvideo
Post by lobohunter on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 5:22pm
hmmm let me try again lol
http://media.putfile.com/underhand67

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidie
Post by lobohunter on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 11:30pm
awe haha it works lol

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidie
Post by Matthias on Feb 4th, 2006 at 12:56am
Good job! I can't *believe* you are allowed to sling indoors! Lucky you don't live at my house ;D

Matthias

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidie
Post by lobohunter on Feb 4th, 2006 at 2:12am
well I am remodeling and thoise are my raw hide glands
also there a matris over there
;D

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidieo now
Post by Taiki on Feb 4th, 2006 at 1:56pm
succes  ;D indeed :o inhouse slinging  :o my mom saw mee watching that.
first question who is that
second question is he mad :o
third question what the how old is he he should know better >:(

i was dying laughing i swear  :P

(modify#2 i screwed that one up twice i did :-/)

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidieo now
Post by mgreenfield on Feb 4th, 2006 at 2:15pm
Couldnt get it to play w MS Explorer or Mozilla   ???

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidieo now
Post by Willeke on Feb 4th, 2006 at 2:24pm
Did you remember that putfile files need to load fully first?
Maybe it will work if you give it a lot more time.
I use (microsoft) Internet Explorer and had no problems at all.

Willeke

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidie
Post by lobohunter on Feb 4th, 2006 at 4:54pm
never thought the indoor thing would bring such attention
lol
;D

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidie
Post by bigkahuna on Feb 4th, 2006 at 5:22pm
Nice video LoboHunter. Thanks. I didn't figure out that it was an underhand throw until I saw the video . Very interesting. :)

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidie
Post by lobohunter on Feb 4th, 2006 at 7:33pm
mmm the title says under hand lol ;D

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidieo now
Post by Tint on Feb 4th, 2006 at 11:17pm
You look like you lost some weight!

Nice video.  I tried that technique a few times. I could hardly get any power nto the shot.

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidie
Post by lobohunter on Feb 5th, 2006 at 1:54am
hmm i have no trouble with the power but in the video I ony spin once but in real use i often spin several times then its just a normal under hand actuly kind is any way. lol

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidieo now
Post by Joseph Curwen on Feb 6th, 2006 at 8:41am
Hi lobo,

nice video.

i am impressed that you can sling while looking at the camera  ;)

I could'nt read it from the web page, it didn't worked (Cant replace I.E. at my office)??

But once your video saved to my drive, it was ok.

Regards

Joseph

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder vidie
Post by lobohunter on Feb 6th, 2006 at 7:24pm
ty Joe well preforming while looking at the camera comes from my porn star days lol ;D just kidding And yes Tint I lost about 85#s

Title: Re: underhand done across the  shoulder video now
Post by lobohunter on Apr 27th, 2006 at 7:27pm
I just found out I you run a few steps, with this style really increases  the power. Infact at the end of the three steps I almost do a baseball players slide putting all the momentum into the throw. The grounders now seem to pack as much punch as my overhand. I might recomend this for chasing game. But not with the broard head ammo lol ;D

Title: Re: underhand done across the shoulder video
Post by Dale on Apr 28th, 2006 at 3:21pm
LoboHunter,
Well, I went back and added some comments to my previous posts, now that I have finally watched your video.  I only half-understood what you were doing.  The way you are holding the sling, makes much more sense than the way I was trying to do it.

I have tried a Greek-style underhand cast, but with the sling in front of me.  It is quick but not powerful, because I don't get my full arm into the cast.  Your way, starting behind the back, let's you get your whole arm into it.

Tint,  I'll try this out during lunch break, today, and let you know if I also have power problems.

Lobo, I notice you are using a wrist-loop on your sling.  And I noticed you wrap it around the back of your hand, to get a wide grip.  I'm going to try that and see how it works for me.  Maybe doing it that way, will keep the cord from slapping my palm, when I release.

Title: Re: underhand done across the shoulder video
Post by lobohunter on May 1st, 2006 at 7:29pm
the cord slapping your palm? Retention or Release ?

Title: Re: underhand done across the shoulder video
Post by TechStuf on May 1st, 2006 at 7:57pm
Seems I am less analytical of certain sling dynamics than I had previously given myself credit for.....Dale was dead on regarding the solid thumping my index finger was taking upon release.  I thought I'd figured it out by reducing the mass of the release tab.....seemed to work great until today.

I was playing with MGreenfield's O-SAST thing and afterward, when I did the figure eight overhand from an elevated position to a target situated at a lower elevation......I got stung like clockwork.  

It is truly amazing that though such a solid, stinging thump feels like it is coming from something substantial, like the release tab.....the offender turns out to be the sling cord.

Great work Dale, in diagnosing my problem from afar!


TS

Title: Re: underhand done across the shoulder video
Post by Dale on May 2nd, 2006 at 5:07pm
LoboHunter,
My palm gets slapped by the retained cord.  What happens is that, at release, a wave gets started in the cord, which travels up the cord from the pouch to my hand.  The odd thing is, this happens some times but not always.  I have not yet figured out how to keep it from happening.  If I am using a fingerloop and a narrow grip, it is my index finger that gets slapped by the cord; with a wrist loop, the traveling wave slaps the cord against my whole palm.

Title: Re: underhand done across the shoulder video
Post by Dale on May 2nd, 2006 at 5:08pm
TechStuf,
I diagnosed only from "afar" as to the tips of my fingers, I still get stung!  However, I really, really like the narrow grip with the cords both passing between thumb and forefinger, so I fear I am stuck with it.

On the other hand ... I am more accurate with narrow grip because I use it more.  I think Jurek uses a wider grip with the finger loop on his middle finger, and he is quite accurate.  So maybe I should practice with that grip, and see what happens.

On the other other hand ... your fingerfingerfingerloop grip (that I copied) and your wooden grip, only work with the narrow grip.

OK, I am out of hands now, I will cease.

Title: Re: underhand done across the shoulder video
Post by lobohunter on May 2nd, 2006 at 6:48pm
Dale
I have not notice a slapping of the string. In any of the methods I use. grantedI have not used a finger grip in a couple of years. until the last 6 months its all been toggles then wrist loop. I must admit I only use a wide grip anymore
but never the less the slap of the string took me by surprise

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