Slinging.org Forum | |
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl
General >> Other Primitive Weapons >> How I made my Bow https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1118891926 Message started by Hellfire on Jun 15th, 2005 at 11:18pm |
Title: How I made my Bow Post by Hellfire on Jun 15th, 2005 at 11:18pm
It all started on a drizzly saturday morning when I was bored and reading something on www.primitiveways.com. In the article, "How to make a bow from a sapling.". I read many key details. I wrote down a list of these details, found my saw, and memorized from my book what a white ash looks like. Having done all of the necessary steps, me and my brother walk out into the woods with only a saw and our border collie. I looked around for nearly a half hour until I saw a small stand of about eight or ten white ash. I found the two smallest ones, about five inches in diameter at the thick end, and carefully chopped them off at the base. This was after I carefully examined and scrutinized the structure of the bark, the trees health, and how tall it was. Me and my brother then portaged the heavy logs home, about 2 miles.
When we got home, I brought out my axe, and we split them into quarters. Then we carefully peeled off the bark and examined the outer growth ring. It appeared that only two staves of the eight would work. They were about 120 degrees, quite a bit more than the 90 I wanted. These two were shaped and hacked and filed until they roughly appeared like bows. Then they were painted with waterproof latex paint on each end and allowed to dry. Almost a month and a half later I brought them from my closet and examined them. One of the bows might not work. It had a knot about the size of a grape I somehow didnt notice when I cut it, maybe I didnt care. The other bow was too light, only thirty pounds. I did some reading and found out that most of the Great Plains and Eastern woodland natives made their bows only fourty two inches long. This was good to know. It meant that one of the staves with a large knot in it would not be wasted. The light bow I tillered until it was good and spiked it four inches, two from each end. This made the draw more suitable- I also sinewbacked it with hemp cord. The other bow I cut nearly nine inches from each end. Then I shaped it with my hatchet, and large kitchen knife (glad Im not in great britain, where they might outlaw them). I then cut Indian nocks, which I have come to favor. These are much like regular slit nocks, except instead of a rectangular piece of wood above the slit, it is diamond shaped, well filed and smoothed to fit the string and to ensure longevity, as there is little wear. I strung the fourty- two inch weapon and found it to be off tiller, not badly, but bad enough to make me angry. I drew it anyway and was astounded. It must have been almost eighty five pounds of draw. This was going to require a lot of tillering... Later that night I worked until it was nearly one in the morning, carefully cutting, smoothing, trying to equalize the tiller. I then almost fell asleep in my workroom, which wasn't very good because if you are tired you shouldnt be working with blades. Two days later, when the small cuts and scrapes on my hands healed, I picked it up and still wasnt satisfied with the draw. It was too much. I wanted it about fifty-five pounds so I could shoot it maybe fifty times at a stint without tiring. When I did chores that morning to feed the livestock, I found a large piece of glass, with very square edges. It was about perfect, so I brought it to the house and scraped the bow with it. It was better than sandpaper. I perfected the tiller and took off about ten pounds of draw. Then with 400 grit sandpaper I smoothed the whole thing out and rubbed linseed oil into it. Now I have to make some arrows.... I was wondering (in detail) how anyone else in this forum has made his or her bow, either longbow, shortbow, recurve, maybe even a bundle bow. Add your opinions |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by me on Jun 15th, 2005 at 11:59pm
been making bows since I was very young, and my first attempts sound about like yours. There are alot of things I dont understand in your post on this bow, but Im sure english will be along soon enough and he'll point them out for me lol ;D
That very unimportant point aside, I'm glad you've made your first! That is wonderful. I remember working green saplings in my garage as a kid with just a kitchen knife and my raw instinct on what to do. Once you get bit by the bowmaking bug youll probably be doing it for the rest of your life, or if not, a long time. You should post some pics of this bow Hellfire, it would be cool to be able to see your first shooter. :) |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by knight on Jun 16th, 2005 at 9:42am
sweet i remember my first bow wasnt a good one sorry if im not typen alot usin moble device called psp
|
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by lionheart on Jun 16th, 2005 at 12:33pm
I wonder how long itll tkae for jonyn and english to post here... When i get some wood im goign to make a bow, but in the meantime im making a small crossbow with an 18' NTN prod which is tkaing me aggeeeeeeeees to rough out
Rik |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by henryblowery on Jun 16th, 2005 at 3:38pm
Ok I'm going to point out inconsistancys(sp?) between this thread and another thread. I'm not trying to be mean I just have a few questions.
"I also sinewbacked it with hemp cord." You can't sinew back a bow with hemp. ;) ;D " Yesterday I got out into the woods and cut down two medium to small size trees- about three inches in diameter."(Quote from other thread) "I found the two smallest ones, about five inches in diameter at the thick end," quote from this thread. The trees are differant sizes. ;) ;D "I split them into fourths and one into fifths."(other thread) " I had to throw away about half of one of the trees because the splitting didnt work right- there was a knot the tree had about a year or so ago and it grew over, but the other tree I split into three workable staves. The other gave only one.(other thread) " When we got home, I brought out my axe, and we split them into quarters. Then we carefully peeled off the bark and examined the outer growth ring. It appeared that only two staves of the eight would work." OK so in the other thead you had 9 staves 4 workable staves. In this thread you have 8 staves 2 workable staves. ;) ;D Gray |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Hellfire on Jun 16th, 2005 at 6:14pm
Sinewbacking can be with sinew. I suppose that is a slightly inconsistent statement, but in the words of John Wayne." What the hell."
I found the two smallest ones out of a stand of ash trees- duh. They were medium to small sized trees, compared to the average tree. The one into fifths- the fifth one turned out to be kindling- I didnt include that. It also "appeared" that only two staves would work. I didnt know you could make a whitewood bow anything other than a flatbow. Then I read about how the natives made bows only 42 inches long. Voila- 2 extra workable staves- I nearly threw them out. I have them drying in my closet right now. |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Matthias on Jun 16th, 2005 at 9:40pm
Is the backing functional, protective-only, or merely decorative? I'm interested in cordage-backed bows, which were relatively common in northern Canada, helping make the most of scarce and marginal woods, but the technique is *quite* different from what people usually mean. I wouldn't have thought that hemp would have suitable properties, but am interested in your experience.
One of the reasons sinew works is that it is strong, elastic, and shinks considerably while it is drying. This forces the surface of the wood into compression, which prevents breaking. Matthias |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by me on Jun 16th, 2005 at 10:30pm
Its functional by making the back almost unbreakable. A fiber backing saves many a bad bow. I backed a little osage bow with hemp once. I've used sisal, wool (sucks) , heavy painters canvas (good) , as well as sinew and and maybe some others. Best thing fiber backings have over sinew is when put on with waterproof glue , its not affected by moisture like sinew.
|
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Hellfire on Jun 16th, 2005 at 10:59pm
I did mine apache style.
Yes it does make it very hard to break. What it does is recurve the tips and put more strain on the belly. It makes the whole bow faster and more efficient. I think that the next time one of our goats die(natural causes)- I will get its back sinews and heel sinews. Maybe i can actually sinewback a bow with real sinew. Then hide glue it to the back, and cover it with a snakeskin. Very awesome looking. now all I need to know is how to prepare sinew. |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Matthias on Jun 17th, 2005 at 6:10am
Thanks me - I meant not whether backing in general is functional, but this backing in particular.
Hellfire - How did you add the reflex using a fiber backing? Were you using raw hemp, strick, or spun cord? "Apache-style" could be glued, or it could be cordage backed, could you describe what you did a bit? Any chance of some photos? Matthias |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Hellfire on Jun 17th, 2005 at 9:34am
Theres not much chance for photos.
Apache style means with a lot of cordage and its glued on. The slightly reflex tips is only visible at full draw. Its not present before you string it or even half draw. Its very subtle at full draw- but it performs like a recurve. I did use hemp. I could use silk, but thats in short supply. cya |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by lionheart on Jun 17th, 2005 at 12:09pm
Hemp backings dont recurve bows, at least thats what i thoguht..? Ive also been wondering about cable bows from the samll amount mentioned in TBB v1, has anyone made one?
Rik |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by me on Jun 17th, 2005 at 1:19pm
Matthias- By "fiber" backing i meant anything fiberous, from hemp to flax to brown grocery bags etc. Sorry shouldve been more specific. To answer your question, hemp backing works great.
Lionheart- Your right hemp doesnt add reflex to a bow, only sinew does that when applied normally. |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by henryblowery on Jun 17th, 2005 at 1:33pm
lionheart you are correct hemp does not recurve or reflex the tips. Sinew does'nt recurve the tips eather what it does is reflex the bow because when sinew drys it shrinks and when it shrinks it pulls the bow into a reflex.
|
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by henryblowery on Jun 17th, 2005 at 1:35pm
Oh, I forgot to say I would like to see your bow to. If the only
reason you cant show it to us is you don't know how to post the photos you can e-mail them to me at lct4501@yahoo.com and I'll post them for you. |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by english on Jun 17th, 2005 at 1:45pm Quote:
|
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Hellfire on Jun 17th, 2005 at 4:27pm
If you and a friend or a camera decided to witness a cordage backed bow recurve then pull it to full draw and have a friend or one of those timing cameras observe it. It recurves.
It doesnt put a permanent recurve in it, but it acts like one (at full draw) putting more strain on the belly and less on the back. Maybe I should add again that it only works at full draw |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by me on Jun 17th, 2005 at 5:17pm
Im so lost...why would it recurve at full draw when its not recurved at any other time. Full draw would place more strain on the wood and the more strain the more likely it would be to do the opposite, like with a working recurve. ???
|
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by henryblowery on Jun 17th, 2005 at 6:20pm
What ME said. How about YOU prove it buy posting a full draw picture?
|
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by This is Hellfire on Jun 17th, 2005 at 6:47pm
hey
go to www.primitiveways.com and look up cordage backed bow. Read some of the technical stuff and the guy there explains that his black locust stave- when backed with nylon- recurves- about three inches or so. You need more cordage than I usually apply. -too busy to login (or lazy) I am Hellfire |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Matthias on Jun 17th, 2005 at 10:17pm
Ok, so the primitive ways article seems relatively well researched and follows the pattern of cordage backed bows - where the "cable" is quite drastically _pre_ tensioned. This is the key here - there is no way that a simple glued hemp backing is going to do anything to recurve the tips on its own, and it shouldn't add more than a tiny bit to the draw. Properly applied, it should help to lessen the chance of breaking along runout, but string isn't the best bet for this. This is what I meant when I asked about function. Me is talking about one use - a cordage backed bow doesn't get the same benefit, but gains some resistance because the outer fibres of the wood don't come under as much tension (and are held in compression most of the time).
You can't glue down a cable backing and expect it to work as intended. Even if you could glue it under tension (sinew does this by itself) most of the alternative fibres will creep, even with adhesive. Sounds like an interesting experiment though. How does it shoot? Matthias |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by english on Jun 18th, 2005 at 3:47am
I'm sorry Hellfire, but being able to recurve a bow with glued on cordage that isn't sinew is not possible. At all. And it would be messier and uglier than a normal cable backing.
|
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by lionheart on Jun 18th, 2005 at 7:17am
TRying to be blunt but not offensive, why are you tlaking rubbish Hellfire?! How can a bow be recurved at full draw but not at rest/brace. Do theends of the bow magically bend backwards, when being pulled the other way, contrary to every law of physics imaginable and commen sense? And this is the only odd thing youve posted, like being able to know a bows drawweight from looking at it in green stave form or somehtign in another post.
Also English, I dont htink cable backings are messy and ugly Rik |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Matthias on Jun 18th, 2005 at 9:27am
A cable backed bow can pick up an "effective recurve" at draw if the cord is stiffer than the tips. If you think of a limber stick with a cord running along one side you can see this - pull on the cord and the tip curls. Actually just look at how your fingers work.
The cable needs to be free to move though (within the strain limits of the materials - this won't be much) and the way forces are distributed, the pre-tensioning is important. The tension needs to be cranked in there for it to work, and If you think of the backing as a second bowstring, you can quickly see why leaving a hemp backed bow "string" for more than a few hours isn't on. On the other hand, as me pointed out (I think you chose that alias just so it looks like we have atrocious grammar >:() A backing can be useful while not adding draw. Even if it not adding strength, protecting the outer face from dents and scratches will prolong the life of the bow. As for the idea of a glued-backing recurve bow, of course it is possible - that is what a modern laminated bow is after all, but that is a different beast. Hemp is stiff enough (maybe too stiff) that it would make a reasonable reinforcing fibre, but the construction would be very different. Matthias |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by english on Jun 18th, 2005 at 10:43am
I didn't say cable backings look ugly - in fact, I quite like them sometimes - but that glued on string backs would look ugly and messy.
Quote:
|
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by This is Hellfire on Jun 18th, 2005 at 9:07pm
Youre right.
Glued backing doesnt work too well. Mine just exploded. |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by This is Hellfire on Jun 18th, 2005 at 9:15pm wrote on Jun 17th, 2005 at 10:17pm:
It shot wonderful and fast, with maybe about 4 extra pounds weight. But as most will refer to later- my backing just exploded >:( Anyone ever got whiplash- not the kind where you slam on the breaks going 80, but when its like a real whip- lashing you? As my backing just exploded, it did that. Broke free from the hide glue like it was nothing, and exploded like an angry firecracker. Mine was pre tensioned- even glued on. I made a toggle-thingy from white oak and twisted it once and lashed it on. It exploded in about three different spots at the same time. Isnt that crazy-go-nuts?! |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by me on Jun 18th, 2005 at 11:22pm
Hellfire your lucky you still have both your eyes. ;D Dont let glue anywhere near your cable backing that will only weaken it. When I say cable backed I mean the twisted pre-tensioned backing, not glued anywhere but attached near the tips on special nocks and pre-tensioned as Matthias mentioned. What you said earlier was that you sinew-backed your bow with hemp, and of course that involves gluing the backing down, which is probably why we were confused. Adding glue, be it to the cable backing or the bowstring causes the fibers to become stiff and very brittle, and weakens them, this is at least true in my expirence when doing it. When glued on the back of a bow, all is well as the fibers are stationary, and dont twist or fray, but in a string or cable its a formula for failure.
Sorry to hear your bow broke, but in a way thats a good thing. Whenever I break a bow I am pleased with what I learned from it and appreciate it as much as a good shooter. My failures these days are usually limited to taking a well made bow and expirmenting on it till it explodes. Take what you learned and make a real rocket launcher next time. Or at least try to. :) When you do get your next one done, try and get some pics up we all would like to see it. Good luck to you! ;) |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by Hellfire on Jun 20th, 2005 at 6:12pm
I didnt say the bow broke. Just the backing.
If it did hit my eyes, it wouldve had to have gone through my sunglasses first. They are actually safety glasses, but they are cool and tinted. The backing- like i said, exploded in about three spots at exactly the same time. |
Title: Re: How I made my Bow Post by SimpleSlinger on Jun 23rd, 2005 at 4:09pm
Wer good longbows ever made from ash?
|
Slinging.org Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2! YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2025. All Rights Reserved. |