Hi

I was wondering what the Guinness World Record, slinging, rules and regulations were.

thanks

Citanils

The record is 477 m set in 1992.  I am not sure what the rules were. ???

I believe some of us (not me  :'()on this forum can get real close if not break this record.

I know the recors was set using a dart, so it was more ofa  cestrsophendon.  I think the slign should have to use a symetrical projectile, without fins or anyhtiung
Rik

good point lion, seems kinda unfair to use a dart.

So are there no rules on the length of the sling or the projectiles shape or weight ?

Citanils

i dont know but i can get a distance of 247 feet 5 in. with a small rock. with bigger rocks i can get a little further. and with my glands i can get alot further. I am trying to get a distance of 577 feet and 5 in.

i used my stride to measure im not too shure thats right. seems a little short realy.

What I, personally, regard as the world's record for a sling, was set by Larry Bray on 1981 August 21st: 1434 feet, 2 inches (478 yards or 437.1 meters) with a rock weighing 1.8 ounces (52 grams).  The sling was elk-hide and dacron cord, 51 inches (129.5 cm) in length. Here's a picture (from the gallery) of the sling and the rock, with a 2-ounce lead egg sinker (I think) and a ruler as reference objects.
http://www.slinging.org/galleryimages/LarryBrays.jpg

I think David Engvall's record should have been classified as something else.  Engvall slung a dart; Bray slung a ROCK.  So there.   ;)

As for the rules, it seems to go something like this: you do something, and document (with witnesses) exactly what you did and how you did it.  Send that to the Guinness people.  They will decide whether they agree that what you did is remarkable, and where to fit it into the book.  Bray had to do this, and so did Engvall.  They agreed with Bray's definition of what a sling is, and also with Engvall's definition.  So there.

If you're interested, Jurek got a copy of Engvall's letter to Guinness, claiming the record and telling how he did it, and posted it in the forum.   The letter was 13 pages long.  Unfortunately, only the first 4 pages of the letter are still available, but you get the flavor of what the Guinness people want.

The dart really doesn't bug me as much as the fancy release hook he used. Truth be told, a dart doesn't even have an aero advantage over a nicely shaped glans. The big difference is that it is much easier to keep it oriented properly. I think the record deserves to stand within the limits set though. It is up to us to come up with our own requirements for validation. Personally, I wouldn't go as far as the Balears, for instance, who have annual distance competitions.

For some interesting perspective on different perspective s (yes I said that) read the following thread. Make sure to get to page 5 where I sum up the argument quite nicely (if I do say so myself ;))

What is a sling?

And then follow up with this one, where everything suddenly becomes crystal clear... Different groups have widely different definitions of what it means to sling.

Balaeric Island Competions

I'm sorry that Vicente seems to have disappeared, he brought a lot to the discussion. Here's hoping he comes back to lurk every now and then. :(

Matthias

Alot can be lost in a less than perfect release, especially having only a few tries when going for a record.  This is where a dart really shines.....in that it is easily preconfigured for a consistent release no matter the sling style or speed of the effort.  

The best of both worlds, as far a record attempt goes, as I am sure Matthias may be able to confirm, is to keep the fletching with the pocket such that the advantage provided by properly shaped lead ammo is ensured by the consistent orientation provided at release with a fletched pocket....enabling one to keep the nominal drag increase provided by the fletching......at home.

I have attained my best repeatable distance performances in this manner.  

8)

I agree, the record should be for throwing a non-flighted objetc witha traditional sling, eihter pocketed or split; in other words for slinging. In my view engval holds the record for throwing a dart using a piece of string - a hi-tech French Arrow.

Pat

http://www.slinging.org/galleryimages/media/news5.jpg
This is the david engval picture, and on the sling icnat see a pocket, is it even a sling.  And as for the dart, i dont think thats 'right' for a slinging world record...
Rik

Two pertinent questions surely considered by Guiness are:

1)  Is the object being slung?  Yes.

2)  Is the object inert?  Yes.


There is certainly much room for an improvement on his record, if one is so inclined.

:)

ACK!  TechStuf beat me to press!  And he said it with (many) fewer words!  Nevertheless, I've spent some time typing this and checking some facts, so I'm going to post it anyway:

However I personally feel about the "purity" of slinging and whether Engvall's record should be counted, his French Arrow or kestros or whatever is a very nice piece of work.  There isn't a pocket, as such.  The odd-shaped metal piece serves the function of a pocket: the hook in the middle slips into the hole in the side of the dart, the release cord attaches to the left side of the metal piece, the retained cord to the right side.  When Engvall twirls it, the dart's own weight keeps it firmly attached to the hook, until he releases.  Then the whole metal piece rotates, the hook slips out of the hole, and the dart is off and flying.  It looks like the mechanism releases very cleanly, the dart won't have any sling-induced wobble.

As for whether this is a sling -- well, the Guinness people read Engvall's thirteen pages of documentation, including his definitions of a sling ["a ligature throwing device (ie. a flexible extension of the human arm) that is powered exclusively by the throwing motion ... not an energy storing device such as an elastic slingshot"] and of a stone ["an inert (nonself-propelled) object"] and they accepted it.

I must note that Engvall clearly pointed out his departures from the notion of a "traditional sling," including using kevlar and aluminum instead of leather, and using a dart instead of a stone.  Engvall's point was that he had kept the essential features of the sling: two cords, one of which is released, and a device that holds the "stone" in place until he releases.  Engvall also challenged anyone to better his record, and noted that his definitions leave room for innovation (rather than restricting everything to specific designs, materials, weights etc).

Anyway, since Guinness publish the book, and not I, the record stands.

Thankyou everyone for replying

I don't deem Engvall's record fit. And from here I suggest that all of us on this site agree to our own terms and conditions for a slinging record. Then we have a fair comparison to find skill from technical advantage and we can have our own record['s].

I suggest:

Sling: A pouch made from a material such as leather or string in which the projectile sits. At opposite sides of the pouch there is a cord fastened respectively. The other end of the first cord is attached to the throwers throwing hand. The other end of the second cord is held in the throwers throwing hand. Measurement from centre of pouch to the point on cord two that the thrower holds is no longer than one metre.

What do you think so far. If someone would like to suggest some rules for the projectile it would be great and if anyone disagrees or wishes to expand on these terms feel free to post them.

thanks again

Citanils

Larry Bray set the record for slinging a rock, David Engval set the record for slinging in what I would consider an unlimited class.

A sling Bullet should be an ovoid of any weight, made in one piece of a homogeneous material, without fins, flights or other stabilising projections and with a length no more than double the width.

Do you agree with this so far ?

Sling: A pouch made from a material such as leather or string in which the projectile sits. At opposite sides of the pouch there is a cord fastened respectively. The other end of the first cord is attached to the throwers throwing hand. The other end of the second cord is held in the throwers throwing hand. Measurement from centre of pouch to the point on cord two that the thrower holds is no longer than one metre.

Projectile: an ovoid of any weight, made in one piece of a homogeneous material, without fins, flights or other stabilising projections and with a length no more than double the width.

I thinks also it should be compulsory to measure your throw from the throwing position to the spot that the projectile initially hit the ground by means of a reliable measuring device/method ie: not stepping it out.

feel free to expand or refute.

If you like this Idea please leave feedback and perhaps we could get the final rules posted on a page where you can fill in your results.
 

There is such a page already. ;)

To me, the idea of a 'world record' in our sport, to be frank, rings a bit hollow.

And although I tend to think of myself as a true slinging afficianado.....I could only see myself getting enthused at the prospect of a Slinging.org sanctioned event.

For it is obvious, at least to me, that here is where the eagles roost.




Which pains me to wax inspired!


For I say:

Let birds of a feather
flock together!

Sure, it's ok here
up high in the air,
Then too, an earthy convergence
sure would be fair!

To friendly compete in a sporting game,
Which honors both difference, and what
makes us the same....

And although this might come across as
a bit lame, it would surely cause
some to find that new name,

Of the kind only bestowed
by a band of true brothers,
Understood by our own
and not meant for others,

Given in jest, for what each,
by your style......would surely give
rise to chuckle and smile,

Followed in suit with looks of
adulation, surprise,
When the 'impossible' is reduced
before your very eyes,

To that kind of practice....pristine and
distilled, By that exceedingly rare,
and supremely strong willed......

Wise, adept and consumate master,
of slinging both word and rock with
equal disaster......


Little old me.


Techstuf



The gauntlet, I doth hereby cast....

8)

I also think the thrower shouldnt have any kind of stand, they have to throw from ground level.  FOr the projectile, i think it should be symetrical on the three x,y and z axis, with no fins/flights/stabelisers.
The pocket should hold the projectile in only by gravity at the start adn then by centripetal/fugal forces, and should be plain with no hooks notches etc.
The sling must be attatched to the finger by a finger/wrist loop and the pocket should be opened by letting go/releasing the retention cord.
Just my thoughtts on the matter
Rik

The championship should be held in Canada - see the Pictures from The weekend Thread.

Ps - thats some of the best Poetry about slinging I have read for some time . ;)

Pat



wrote on Jun 1^st, 2005 at 4:56am:

To me, the idea of a 'world record' in our sport, to be frank, rings a bit hollow. And although I tend to think of myself as a true slinging afficianado.....I could only see myself getting enthused at the prospect of a Slinging.org sanctioned event. For it is obvious, at least to me, that here is where the eagles roost. Which pains me to wax inspired! For I say: Let birds of a feather flock together! Sure, it's ok here up high in the air, Then too, an earthy convergence sure would be fair! To friendly compete in a sporting game, Which honors both difference, and what makes us the same.... And although this might come across as a bit lame, it would surely cause some to find that new name, Of the kind only bestowed by a band of true brothers, Understood by our own and not meant for others, Given in jest, for what each, by your style......would surely give rise to chuckle and smile, Followed in suit with looks of adulation, surprise, When the 'impossible' is reduced before your very eyes, To that kind of practice....pristine and distilled, By that exceedingly rare, and supremely strong willed...... Wise, adept and consumate master, of slinging both word and rock with equal disaster...... Little old me. Techstuf The gauntlet, I doth hereby cast.... 8)

This is just my opinion but I think you guys are overthinking the rules.

"Projectile: an ovoid of any weight, made in one piece of a homogeneous material, without fins, flights or other stabilising projections and with a length no more than double the width. "

or

"i think it should be symetrical on the three x,y and z axis, with no fins/flights/stabelisers."

How the hell am I gonna find a rock that fits that bill? Larry's record was not a lot shorter even with the different gear. And he just used rocks. I've also heard talk that the sling should be shorter than so many inches for the record to be valid. I think I heard 50 inches or less. I for one use a sling longer than that for everyday use. Mine are just about 55 inches from the center of the pocket to the release. It isn't overly long, I'm only 74 inches (6'2") tall and that sling seems fine by me. I also heard that to get a record the sling and the pocket must be made of leather. Frankly that is retarded. In my opinion if you split all the slings ever made into two huge piles, one for all leather and another pile. The "other" pile would block out the sun and the all leather pile would be pitiful in comparison.

I say just split the record into two types. Farthest rock slung, and farthest non-rock slung. Slings must be shorter than ten feet and made out of something.

There.

For the rules of the projectile, that was for a manufactured projectile, and for world record attempts, projectiles would be manufactured, so it has a more regular shape than a rock, and has a greter density.  All the tests conducted have shown that lead glands go further than rocks, so for a WORLD RECORD attmept surely the competitor wants the rock to go as far as possible!
Rik

I'll eat a damn rock if you can sling anything without a rocket attached as far as Larry's record. I just thought that it would make sense to split into rocks and everything else.

When did i say I could slign as far as LArry?
Rik

Wow, we've gotten 'way off the original topic, which was: what are the criteria for the Guinness slinging records?

I think we've about beaten the topic to death.  We dug up and linked to the available information about and from the Guinness people, we dissected the current record-holders --- hey, Longwinger, I like your idea about a "traditional" class and an "unlimited" class, Larry is the Traditional champ and David is the Unlimited champ --- although Vicente would have some thoughts about whether Larry counts as Traditional because his sling used dacron cords, not natural fiber --- anyway, the original question has been answered in full.

Id say we are still very much on the original topic, a discussion of what people think the criterea for the world record attempts should be.
Rik

I think we're missing a huge category here. Aim. Accuracy. Most, if not all of us, can sling a rock a long ways but how many can hit a coke can at 20-30 m's reliably.  There would be nothing more thrilling to me then seeing the rock i just slung shatter a glass bottle at a hundred feet.
Of course I think there should be two divisions, untouched rocks and manufactured ammo.  Traditional and Unlimited as was mentioned before.

Ye there are of course 2 very distinct categories, aim and range, this goes nearly without saying
Rik

Such 'pedantic' limitations will only serve to limit a sport already challenged by the puerile perceptions of those outside our circle.

Of course,  I am, obviously, in no way a 'purist' when it comes to the sling.  Which has enabled me to transcend, what for many, are very real limitations in our sport.

It doesn't take much observational comparison with other 'fringe' sports to realize the benefits that a  healthy,creative and inclusive attitude could bestow upon ours as well.

Food for thought....

8)

Thanks everyone for an interesting conversation

I think that it has pretty much been collectively agreed that no one cares that much about records on this site. I was just looking for something to work towards.

I would however like the results on the sling ranges page to be put into categorys of projectiles used.

thanks again

Citanils

Personally Citanils I think its a great idea to get some kind of regualtory definitions going. The hard part is 1, we are so spread out from each other and it would really be best to do this in an enviorment where the rules for the slings themselves could be collectivley tried out and voted upon, and 2 we are starting from scratch, unlike say the Balearic Island folk. Once their are enough of us I'm sure traditional slinging shoots will crop up just like traditional archery shoots have.   ;D

Personally,  I surmise that a meaningful part of the appeal of the sling is the stark absence of 'regulation'.....afterall, it is virtually THE most indirect method of hitting a target via human power.

I think it's charm is that it literally begs an apple and orange free-for-all.

Imagine a number of comrades toe'ing the line....each with a different sling.....and varied ammo.

Certainly more interesting to me than that kind 'capitulative restraint' which worships tradition.

I say if Yurek prefers potatoes to my dirt clods....then why hamstring us both in a compromise that masks each his potential?

I say, bring what you're used to slinging and may the best man win.

That way, when Lobohunter wins with his 'RazorGlans'....

We can all look upon his 'hairless' face with awe!

8)

Sorry techstuff I dont think I caught the main gist of that post.

If you said what I sort of think you said my reply would be... I am not saying that after some rules are agreed upon everyone is ONLY allowed to sling that way or with those elements the idea of the whole thing was to have a basis on which to compare ourselves evenly to each other.

I hope that that was a suitable reply to your post

Citanils

I agree Citanils,
On another point, whilst one of the charms of slinging is the variety, for world record attmepts, some sort of limit on what is and isnt  slign mus be set, because, i would be highly suprised if someone was throwing rocks further than anyone else with a sling made of bootlaces and a bit of old scrap leather.
Rik

What's there to limit?

I mean really,  we're definitely not talking rocket science here.

Are we?

If the object is slung via cordage of some type.....and not rocket assisted or mechanically via some other means,

Then hey, it's called slinging.

I mean,  we go taking ourselves too seriously and then we are just like all these other sports and their monotonous limitations and even comparisons.

Let each man create his own playing field and may the best style, material and design win.


MUCH more interesting than trying to lasso a fart in a whirlwind.....(Upon deeper contemplation, I take that back).

And let's face it,

For most, it's going to be difficult enough just trying not to embarrass one's self silly.

;)


Organizational efforts would be better spent on creative target and distance events.....

like, I don't know......say:


Pop the pumpkin- 20 paces.....first hit wins a pumpkin pie.

Dent the barrel- 50/100/200 yard events

Helium 24in. balloon moving target sniperthon.  Each man 3 trys at 20 paces.  Best of 3 wins.....Larry Bray's world record rock.  (Or reasonable facsimile)


Clay Pot Marathon 20/50/100yrd events....every man slings until one is hit at each distance.  Least number of tries captures the 'trophy' for commensurate distance.


Urban Hooliganism event:

Old window panes propped against hay bales....at varying distances.....extra bonus to the man who shatters one of the couple or so stained glass beauties we can scrounge.

Bread toss....No one breaks for lunch until he's hit a loaf of marble rye at 20 paces.

Unlimited Open distance contest:  Do your worst, with your best, of course.


Dodge ball.....mwaahaaahaa,  rubber spongies at 30 paces.  Teams decided by weigh in before and after 'drinkathon' held directly before competition.


The more creative the events, the more likely we will see some intensive style, material and design efforts brought to the event.

And that's really the big draw.......an event of sufficient interest, ripe with the promise of high entertainment and challenge to pry those very few Jedi Master slingers we know must be out there, from their respective lairs....

8)

Tech u do like those ideas, but one i feel needs ot be added is paintball slinging base assault; think you couyld have longslings underarm bombarding the enemy form range, then peope with short slings for storming inside the base...
AS for the rules for world record attmepts, lets simply agree to disagree, althoguh in all other distance shooting events, as far as i am aware, there is soem sort of limiting rules, for instance in the javelin throw, te javelins cant be flighted or osmehting like that
Rik

Techstuff

good ideas

I dont know how you came up with 50 intreguing games in such a small amount of time but good on you. I understand where you are coming from but you have to realise that there are some people interested in non novelty exercises. I have nothing against you or your approach to slinging. I just hope you realise that I am not trying to put fences around the sport. I love the idea of paintball slinging. But it would probably be hard for me to get my hands on some paintballs down in lowly Tasmania [let alone getting my friends interested in it].

thanks for your enthusiastic response

Citanils

On a slightly random point but still connected to paintballing;
'Paintball Pico Piracy'  Paintballing on little boats ad u cna board etc, one person sails other shoots, pink sails aganmts blue, boy thats be fun.  Then i could come along in a rocket (very fast boat) tee hee
Know that would b fun!
Rik
PS ditto mostly citanils

paintball would be soo fun, Id like to do blowgun paintball and slingshot paintball also. Clay pots would indeed be alot of fun also. Heres another idea...ever been to those carnivals where a guy sits on a seat above a tub of water in a plexiglass booth and people try to dunk him by throwing baseballs at a target?...You get what im saying im sure. Now that would be a blast.
The oppritunities are endless.

Lionheart,  of course I like 'those' ideas.....their mine! (lol)

Citanils, Am I missing something....or isn't that what slinging is?   A novelty, I mean.

Me, I like your thinking!....lol

I say keep it light, keep it fun, give it legs and it just may run.....

This is 26yrs of virtually every conceivable slinging experience talking.

Not a big fan of the idea of paintball slinging.....largely and simply for the fact that paintballs of the size necessary for a satisfying exercise would take too much effort for this largely uninspired slinger.

I do, however, understand and appreciate the unbridled enthusiasm of the younger generation of slingers...seeking to quantify, categorize and standardize an activity which, by it's very nature, just manages to avoid extinction in modern culture by clinging tenuously to those few, who are drawn to it for what it really is, subconsiously or otherwise.....

A mystical connection to the past.....and with nature....an ineffable dance with warriors past, against the giants and tyrants of their day.......and the inner and outer demons of ours.


Peace,

TS

8)

Ooops ye of course you do, i meant i like them!  Especially the one after the drinkathon  ;D
Rik

Lol....me too!


That would be film worthy.....

8)

The revival of this thread, has inspired me. I built a sling last night wich is maxium length for me to use over and under hand. wich for me is 60 inches I normally use a fortythree inch sling. I was hoping for massive range in provement. Alas my improvement was just about ten meters for the foo's ball  from 88.2 meters to 97.2 they both are averages of 6 throws. I was hurling in town so did not get a chance to try more substantial ammo. Nor did I do the 45 degree over hand since no prior measurement for foo's balls.
 Tech you have me thinking once again. I recently hurled a three ounces egg sinker just over 300 yards.
What if I took the razor gland idea used fins instead of broad heads. With the razor glands one of the probs. at first was a tendency for them to gain lift. Not what I wanted in hunting. Extra lift in distance hurling maybe what I want.
   ty Tech back to the shop I go

i need to double my distance with a normal stone if im going to be able to throw things at my planned target.

Anytime, Lobohunter.....and good luck casting that 5ft. sling with the overhand method......a bit 'over my head', methinks.  

I am, at this moment, pondering your physical stature......somewhere near Goliath proportions, I assume?

8)

No TechStuf I believe Goliath was quite a bit larger. I am 79 inches tall 256 pounds

Now that's the size of a Lobo-Hunter. :o

I weigh 128 lbs :P.

I wonder if two Tints could outsling one lobohunter? "Fee, fi, fo, fum!"

haha im going about 190 pounds, at 5 feet 8 inches, i would be taller if i did not have Severe Lombardik thoracic  scoliosis
( i think thats spelled right :)) any way its a curving of the spine, I have it real bad my back darn near makes an S.

Distance wise I am not that far behind Lobohunter according to the range page.  But I am sure he is more accurate than I am.

I'll be in real trouble in a real fight with him.

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-060.gif

hi guys
i hope you don't mind a new slinger's views on the world record.
i think that we have to separate the man-made slings from natural fibre slings. no-one would take an english long-bow or an apache bow to the olympic games and be competitive, despite the fact that the "ancient" bows require more skill, and are also more satisfying to shoot.
there is a danger that - for distance records - we end up with the biggest guy with the longest sling. also, the equipment might become so specialised (10 metre teflon-coated sling, depleted-uranium glande, on the Altiplano) that it doesn't make sense.  
in my opinion we should sling using only such equipment  and techniques as are currently recognised by the Balaeric Slingers, specifically as mentioned here. http://www.mallorcaweb.net/foners/normes/menunormes.htm
in this way we all have a level playing field, we all know what is meant by a "sling" and we would truly use an ancient weapon, not a modern approximation.
also we would all pay tribute to the very people who have kept the skill alive; i believe this is is an important factor.
if it weren't for the balaeric islanders, we would be groping in the dark to a much greater extent.
unless we had the balaeric sporting events as a backdrop and reference point, we could in all truth be considered as another historical re-enactment group.
to sum up, i would not count myself as a skilful slinger until i had competed successfully with a balaeric sling of natural fibres and at their current targets and ranges.
 
   

personaly i cant hit the broad side of a barn with my sling and i have been going at it for a few years now :) it shall be a long and painfull road to balaeric slingdom for me :(

but thats just becase i take to things slowly you guys will mostlikely get there before me.  :)

Persoanlly i dotn htink what the sling is made of is the issue, it is the design of that and the projectile.  The reason wooden bows arent used in the olympicsi s because they arent as accurate, not because thye arent allowed.  
And also, the Balearics slingers are focussed on accuracy, not distance throws.
Rik

exactly my point - skill must be determined by accuracy. distance records are all very well, but it's goint to end up like discus or hammer-throwing, where physique (or in slinging, hi-tech kit) determines the results.
surely someone who can sling to enormous distances isn't as good a slinger as someone - a child even - who can "sling a stone at a hair's  breadth and never miss."
since the balaeric slingers have competition rules and standards already in existence, (and seniority on their side, since they have never lost the art) shouldn't we strengthen slinging as a sport by joining them?    
rather than try to work out what the rules should be, why not just adopt the rules and standards which already exist?
distance records are a sideshow - the balaeric slingers  make slinging work as a living sport.  
i'm off to make a jute sling -  next stop mallorca?   ::)

Seeking to apply traditional standardization in a highly non traditional, non standard sport would be rather like trying to entice 'Picasso' into entering a paint by numbers contest.


Highly unoriginal and uninspiring.


But then.....perhaps I'm not a "True slinger"......


;D





God forbid that one day, the celebration of differences will only take place sheepishly in museums!

doh! i meant formal competitions - in golf, for example, there are rules on the type of club. in boxing, there are rules on the type of glove. it may well give you an advantage to fight with iron gloves but what's the point?  i have four types of sling but only one would be eligible for competition in the only formal arena which currently exists. not that i'm good enough - yet!
i don't think that i would have the balls to turn up at a balaeric contest and announce in bad spanish that the contestants are unoriginal and uninspired. would you?? i would rather try and hit that target. b-doinng!!
anyone who slings is a "true slinger", traditionalist or not. all i'm saying is that as far as world records are concerned, there is already an existing standard in both accuracy and equipment. playing with high-tech cordage and trying to beat the world record distance isn't worth much if kids in spain can out-shoot us.  
but it doesn't matter, all slinging is fun, unlike painting by numbers heh heh
sv  
   

SV, I understand where your coming from and if not from my personal expirences I'd probably be the first to agree. But for me the Balaeric slingers had no impact at all on my starting slinging. It was probably something inspired in me that made me start when I was very young. I had never even heard of them until years afterwards. So as to honoring them to keeping the sport alive, sure if you want to...but they didnt for me. Im sure many thousands of others have passed down slinging from father to son, or started on their own just as I did. I would be good IMO to learn from their expirences and weaknesses so we can improve and adapt according to our general circumstances. But I also agree accuracy is much harder then distance and more impressive.

fair enough. i'm new to the sport and enthusiastic. i have a lot to learn; i was applying what i knew about other sports to slinging, but your point is very valid. you are lucky to have taken up the sling in childhood.  i have made a sling for my kids and i hope they do the same.  
sv  

SV......You're a little late to the party, methinks.  

If you'd have gotten yourself up to speed with the depth of the thread, you'd have noticed that the points you make have largely been covered.

"Those who don't investigate the past are doomed to repeat it".

You stated:

"i don't think that i would have the balls to turn up at a balaeric contest and announce in bad spanish that the contestants are unoriginal and uninspired. would you??"

The hypothetical condition of your 'cajones' aside....


I think you missed my point.



(It also helps if one does not make the automatic assumption that the very next post they read is meant to answer to their own)


;)


P.S.  Much of what you say, if you'll notice, is in agreement with my own slinging philosopy, BTW.

stuff you and your point

tech its odd you seem to get in alot of arguments :-/

Naked fact often assaults one's sensibilities.....and the only winner of an argument is the one who does not participate.

I have met such old and wise individuals, on occasion....and it is truly a humbling experience.

At this point in my young life, however, I am not above an enlightening and entertaining argument....though they are increasingly hard to come by these days.

Chivalry and civility are best appreciated when provided with occasional contrast.....

Or so I tell everyone.

8)


And BTW....

SV knows I care enough to razz the very best!  Heck I thought he was funny.....and I am sure my brand of humor was not totally lost on him as well.

Admit it, DTB.....you got a chuckle or two......

SV, I am lucky, or blessed, or both. Anyways, you are most welcome to the forum.  :) And the fact that you are getting your kids into it is incredible.  Slinging.com is literally the ground floor movement of a nearly dead sport. The Balaeric slingers do keep their version of it alive. But it is highly regulated and  only reflects a small part of what was once a very popular sport/skill among all the nations of the world. Back in ancient days when slinging was common among many peoples I would bet their were as many rules, styles and traditions for it as their were cultures that  used them.

By the way what style of throw do you use? I used the helicopter-type throw for almost a decade, and can get serious power out of it, but nwmanitou basically converted me to his figure-8 style. How old are your kids, that would be great to ones kids this sort of thing.

I hope youve got this site in your favs 'me', because slinging.COM takes you to asite about orgies and group sex...  
As for the current debate:
1.  Distance
2.  Accuracy

Two differnent categories, simple
Rik

Quote:

As for the current debate: 1.  Distance 2.  Accuracy Two differnent categories, simple Rik

I would say add a third/fourth, "traditional" for those who like the old fasioned way, and maybe a fifth/sixth, no rules on making the sling/ammo at all.

And even 6 classes is nearly nothing, if you see olympic diving divided in I do not remember how many sub divisions, and the same for swimming, water polo, and so on.

Willeke

I am beginning to see us divided into two groups, which I'll call the "splitters" and the "clumpers".

Splitters divide an activity into myriads of categories so that each category is different and anyone competing in that category knows for certain that the winner is the best/strongest/most-skillful with that particular style/equipment/weight/whatever.

Clumpers group related activities together and marvel at the things they and their fellows are capable of, without (much) regard for how they did it (apart from the ever-present "how did you do that?  Can I see that sling, I want to make a copy for myself!")

My wording probably reveals a bias toward clumpers, but, sooth, they both are useful.  New techniques and even new categories for the splitters, come out of the activities of the clumpers, and watching splitters try to excel within each his/her category may suggest new things to the clumpers.

Just a thought.
--
There are two rules for success.
Rule 1: Never tell anyone everything you know.
--
"Opinions!  Get yer opinions here!  Free, and worth every penny!"

A mighty fine distillation of the facts if ever I saw one!


I must then, consider myself a clumper.


An out and out, died in the wool, clumper....who's been split into a thousand pieces!


Or maybe I'm a splitter that just likes to think he could make it as a clumper?


We'll just have to see.....but I think I could make a good clumper.


I do know one thing,  I have dissected the art of slinging enough to have learned that I truly appreciate the individuality of the sport.....and that it is too fun to be taken too seriously.


That, for me, is one of it's greater charms.


8)

techstuf - you're "dyed" in the wool, idiot. (but you paint an interesting picture nevertheless) you think chivalry and civility are best appreciated by contrast. you're certainly in contrast to other members here, who do their best to encourage newcomers like me with friendly words.  i doan wanna talk to you no mo'
thanks Me - my kids are 12 and 10 and the youngest one particularly loves it, slinging underarm. i have been trying to sling overarm as in the "apache sling" description, but seem to end up with an underarm wind-up for two rotations then a horizontal above-the-head release. it's all good fun.
sv    

Dale good points indeed, Im a splitter dead on. Theres a darn good reason they do that in the olympics, because its the only way to have a fair tournament.
You can still have plenty of fun, I know I do. I think their should be 2 divisions, the primitive division using all natural materials and good ole smooth river rocks and then everything else, from lead to uranium to whatever the heck floats your boat. That should cover every one, and still be fun. (since when is lobbing deadly projectiles
at ridiculous speeds not fun right?  ;D  )

Sv, you should be proud man! Lets see some pics of the upcoming generation, (and some of yourself of course).
Might I suggest you try the figure-8 style if you like the overarm type throw. At first glance for me it was almost impossible to get used to but after a week or two it is clearly a better release then what I was using. Good Luck, Me.

Me, thanks for the advice - i have searched on the site for a video or description of the fig 8 throw but can't find it. any chance you can point me in the right direction? cheers!
sv

Now, now, SV, he said "best appreciated when provided with occasional contrast".  Of course, depending on how you define "occasional"...  ::)

And I'm not gonna worry about an "occasional" tpyo -- though "died in the wool" is suggestive.  Hey, is there a name for "dislexic fingers"?  I swear I type more than twice as many keystrokes as ever get seen by anyone.  Douglas the Black has a signature line, "I live in a maze of typos" -- to which I must reply, "I resemble that remark!" (Three Stooges, I think)

I have had fun writing the above, and I hope it will be read as lightheartedly as it was written.  But my experience has been that some of my most treasured bits of humor and irony have misfired, leaving my readers offended, or convinced that I think I'm a wit and I'm half right.  :-/  I suspect that TechStuf is in the same boat.  Face-to-face isn't the same as written communication, and those of us who write as if we were face-to-face, are rowing with just one oar... though that is itself fun once in a while.  It depends on who else is in the river.  Sometimes you have a fun game of "bumper-cars", sometimes you just run over people   :-[

Sounds like Me and I agree about a basic division into Traditional and Free-for-all -- err, Freestyle.  I agree with Me that for some events, you do need careful requirements for equipment and technique, so that you can compare skills of individuals (and make sure the judges are judging fairly).  But even in the Olympics, a number of the sports have divisions called "Freestyle," where each competitor uses whatever technique she is best at.

SV, check out this post.  I collected everything I could find about the "figure-8" for somebody else that was asking.  Videos of four people demonstrating the figure-8 (or overhand), plus two figure studies, one by Lynn Ballard of himself, the other of Nwmanitou by Johnny Shumate.

Plus some other semi-relevant ramblings...

dale, thanks  :)
sv

Yes Dale helped us all out with that post. Excellent job man, very thorough.  :)

Come on SV,  don't be like that.....if you only accept facts that are sugar coated, how will you grow?

Looks like I touched a nerve there.  Having children,  one would think your skin would be thicker by now.

You asked me a goofy question,  and you want to play cry baby that my answer didn't pander to your fancy?  

Pleeez.....

::)


Listen to Dale,  The Man knows what he's talking about.....


Oh, and BTW, Welcome to the forum.....


http://img293.echo.cx/img293/354/notworthy9qw.gif


My apologies for being so 'impatient' with the 'newbie'.

8)

Dang I feel like a celebrity reading the above link.

I haven't read the rest of the post, so this may be redundant. But everyone I've known of who uses the style I use, was taught by someone else who was taught by still someone else and so on.

i have been working on the fig 8 styel it still isent coming to me :) but i will keep trying.  ;)

Trying to organize the sport of slinging by materials and styles used.....is like trying to herd cats.  And, in my opinion, puts the cart before the horse.

Getting together in numbers remotely sufficient to effect an organizing body, has time and again proven itself low on the totem pole of priorities and capabilities of most here.

And it is only after such a gathering that workable guidelines can truly be realized.  And I certainly don't think that video uploads or other 'virtual commuting' efforts are gonna cut it.  

So, to be brutally honest......(and I am sorry if this offends the fickle, genteel sensibilities of a certain few)

I just don't see it happening any time soon.

At least on any scale even close to commensurate with other sports.

Only the hardcore, dare I say it,  "died in the wool" slingers among us could carry the burden of keeping such a sport even loosely organized, on various levels.

And I for one, am not much of a neophyte engendering fellow. (truly well documented.)

Although I personally, would drop hat and fly to a gathering of that relative few whose love for the sling shines brightly enough to promise at least one unforgettable and productive experience.

Peace,

TS

8)

When I was a freshman in highschool I made a sling and showed one of my best friend's it. To my surprise he knew exactly what it was. He told me how his brother used to use one. His was alot longer and his style was different. He described his brothers style as a...you guessed it.... figure 8.  This was his older brother and I guess they had lived on a farm or something like that and his brother was quite good. It wasnt until recently I remember this and realized the significance of it.  I would bet 100 to 1 his brother was taught by someone else also.
On a side note I made some masonry mix ammo yesterday, let them dry out in egg cartons over night and then put them in the oven today at 200 degrees to finish them. I took them to my fishin spot and started slingin' em figure 8 style at a telephone pole about 30ft away. I hit it a number of times with a very satisfying thunk. I think im getting the hang of this new style.  ;D

the fig 8 style was passed down from slinger to slinger....and nwmanitou just told every one on the internet this secret handed down style..THANKS ;D

I also am  a splitter.  My opinion is that just because the sport at present doesnt have sufficient participants for it to be a widely recognised sport, there is a world record, one which i dont feel is justified, and any world record needs to have rules, i have simply put forward those i believe in, as have several others.  
As for the two categories, target and distance, these of course could be split further, these are the first two 'levels' of slining.
Rik

Tech does have a valid point though. I hope some day their are slinging shoots held around the world as their are already  traditional archery shoots. I just pray no one comes up with a "compound sling" to complicate everything further.  ;) Without slinging.ORG (thnks Doug)
that would probably never be possible.

wrote on Jun 7^th, 2005 at 12:29pm:

I just pray no one comes up with a "compound sling" to complicate everything further.  ;)

Oh oh.. uhm... Does it help that I don't have it working reliably yet? 8)

Matthias

Great discussion everyone.  My goal is to surpass D. Engvall's distance using a lead glandes and a pouched sling with a finger loop and a release knot.  

At this point in time, I don't think the technology provides enough of an advantage to overcome good technique.  

I also think some regional get-togethers would be great fun.  I would try to attend one that was held in the western US.  I would like to compete in the distance, hang time, and rock-skipping (on water) contests.

Great to have you back Larry! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/mhborstad/notworthy.gif

Matthias

Compound sling, Matthias?  This I've gotta see.... ;)


I can't think of a better place for any sort of 'initial' gathering.....as an effort towards a bonafide competitive slinging organization, than somewhere perhaps in Utah, near Larry's place.  Somewhere with wide open spaces, and inspiring scenery at least!

It would surely serve to help delineate the slinging sportsmen from their hobbyist counterparts. No offense to any 'died in the wool' hobbyists out there....and those homebound youngsters without permission to attend.....it's you who would largely provide support for any groundswell efforts that may take place.....I salute you.

To be fair, I do consider myself technically a begrudging 'hobbyist' as of late....but I'm more than willing to quickly return to form and throw down with the 'Best in the west'......for starters.

For me, it's just about associating with slingers of obvious quality and sufficient interest in the sport to put a few dollars where their mouths are and agree to sit down at someone's 'round table' (Or round rock) and see what happens.

Seriously, pontification about what should be this, and should be that.....is no doubt inspiring a few of us to action....and others to simply add wind to our sails.

I for one, am interested in the prospect of solidifying my observations as to which of my brothers truly love slinging!  Enough even......to 'fly' for it!

Personally, I love surprises....

8)

I would love to have a get together with some of you and sling a few rocks.  Of course there will be limits to when and where I can go (I live in Hong Kong).  But I say let's set something up and have everyone give it their best shot.

I for one am rooting for you on that Larry. I want the world record to be for slinging, not technology.

Pat




wrote on Jun 7^th, 2005 at 2:49pm:

Great discussion everyone.  My goal is to surpass D. Engvall's distance using a lead glandes and a pouched sling with a finger loop and a release knot.   At this point in time, I don't think the technology provides enough of an advantage to overcome good technique.   I also think some regional get-togethers would be great fun.  I would try to attend one that was held in the western US.  I would like to compete in the distance, hang time, and rock-skipping (on water) contests.

Quote:

At this point in time, I don't think the technology provides enough of an advantage to overcome good technique.

And good technique you must have had to achieve that record!


However, certainly the employment of both will overcome either one alone!

I am quite confident that the technique and technology that exists at this point in time is quite sufficient to appreciably eclipse the current record.

Now as to whether or not such co-exist symbiotically with a single individual.....

Remains to be revealed.



On a side note,  Using equipment and ammo commensurate to yours....I have only achieved similar distance to yours on those fairly rare shots where a challenging number of variables come into play....and a properly shaped rock, leaving the sling at the correct angle will rely critically upon spin/aero dynamics.

There are various ways one may considerably improve efficiency by capitalizing on these observations such that one's maximum potential is more easily and regularly achieved.

8)

You are certainly correct that the best equipment/projectile coupled with excellent technique is the ultimate combination.  I wonder how much the optimum technique differs as the equipment changes?  A little bit I would guess.  

My intent would be to optimize what I consider a 'traditional' sling and projectile and see what distance could be attained.  I am confident it would easily surpass the dart record.  I have read the debate regarding what constitutes a sling.  To me, it has two cords and a pouch, a finger loop and a release knot.  In this context, 'optimize' allows for different materials but not much in the way of design change.   The projectile is a lump of something, whether it is stone, lead, or whatever.  No wings, fins, or airfoils.  When I saw the dart thing, I immediately wondered about designing a 'sling' that would throw a frisbee type disc.  The new 'record' might be some impressive number but to me would not have much to do with the slinging that my Dad showed me as a child and I have enjoyed ever since.  That's when I decided if I had anything to do with a new record, it would be done the 'old fashioned' way.  The way my Dad showed me.   To me, the record was not just a way to get my name in the book, it was also the continuation of history and tradition.  

I believe getting too technical with the equipment de-legitimizes the achievement.  Have you noticed that Guiness has pretty much edited the category out of their book?  When I was a kid, you could look up 'slinging' in the index of any Guinness Book you found, and there would be Melvin Gaylor's name and a distance of 1147 ft.  I have not seen the category in any recent editions.  Maybe they publish a huge 'Complete' edition that includes every ridiculous category imaginable that would include the current record.  I think they realized (after the fact) that the record they have published is meaningless to the common person and even meaningless to many slinging enthusiasts.   I have not conducted valid surveys, but I believe most people on Earth know what a sling is.  It is two strings and a pouch used to throw stones.  When they see the dart record in the Guiness book, their reaction is, "That's not a sling".  I feel that the Guiness editors actually did a huge disservice to history and tradition with that decision.  I would really like to see a new record established that surpasses the dart and is done with equipment and a projectile that is recognizeable to the average person as a sling.  Whether I set that record, or someone else does, is less important to me.

Awsome comments Larry thanks, I agree wholeheartedly with you except for one thing. In the definition of the sling change the release knot to release cord, as my sling and most of the Balaeric Island folks dont use knots, we just pinch the cord.  Anyways I will be rooting for you as well, good luck to you! :)

haha we need to start selling something to raise money for a big slingfest. we could fly in tint and are ausse buddys, every one from europe and have it in the center of the U.S. plains. would be intresting and fun

In the meantime, how about a symbolic Slingfest.  Lets all agree on a certain time on a certain date.  At that instant, all forum members and any friends they can gather can each launch a stone with great enthusiasm from wherever they happen to be on the planet.  Maybe we could time it to occur at sunrise on the summer solstice on the Balaeric Islands.  For that instant, we will all be one in spirit and celebrate our love for this ancient weapon.

well name the time and i will give it a go :D

Larry,

I understand what you feel should be the definition of a sling......and although I feel it is restrictive,  I can see your point.

That is how I learned the sling as well.  However, when one seeks to parse a highly unique sport as ours....it may be quickly recognized that many variables come into play.....I mean where does it stop?

One could assert with some merit that a larger statured individual has an advantage in that biomechanics dictates that, all else being comparable, he with the larger swinging arc develops more speed......so, in an effort to further 'level' the playing field, why not have height or reach classes as is traditional in various other sports where such advantage necessitates it?  

I mean, a lot of guys of average build like to see how far they can jump, but we all know why they don't bother competing in the long jump at track and field events.  A key component to the growth and continued interest in our sport will be:  Diversity and Inclusivity.

How traditional and particular should one get?  A primitive class where each sling must be hand made with all natural fibers? (as mentioned by someone earlier)  A hybrid class under which slings like the one used in obtaining your world record are used?  

Common sense predicates a wide range of views on what should and shouldn't be allowed....one that, in my limited opinion, could conceivably cause more harm than good for a sport as challenging and challenged as ours.

Larry, you said:


Quote:

My intent would be to optimize what I consider a 'traditional' sling and projectile and see what distance could be attained.  I am confident it would easily surpass the dart record

Which begs the question,  If you are confident of easily surpassing a record obtained with more technology than you yourself are using......why call for a separation at all?  In my view, that would make such an achievement all the more impressive!

In reality, the technology/tradition dissection holds tenuous merit only in distance events, given only two basic rules.....

As was possibly suggested earlier, two classes.....two simple, hard and fast rules will make the sport much more interesting and less resemblant to over legislated events such as the Olympics.


Traditional and Open classes.


The designations to define the former, possibly to be decided by open vote on the forum after a first effort at a meaningful gathering?

Inert ammo and simple cordage used in the slinging style of one's choice.

All else would fall into place.....those techniques, designs and innovations with any real advantage, being emulated and improved upon for the advancement of the sport, overall.

All of our tentative posturing at the whisp of a notion that we might effectively form a competitive organization.....is for naught without each of us assessing our commitment to the sport, and making any initial gathering(s) really count.

I am at this moment, picturing an ancient Roman 'slinging council' debating over the adoption of lead glans to slinging competitions.....and am interrupted by an invading mental image of Leonardo DaVinci should he have applied himself to the concept and implementation of the sling...


It has been my experience that various, heretofore largely unexamined possibilities with the sling, when given greater exposure, seem to hold promise for the prospect of lifting the art, science, and sport of slinging from the shadows of obscurity into a relative 'renaissance' period.

After all, our forbearers were very forward thinking in their adoption of useful improvements to all endeavors......emulation of their ingenuity, in my opinion, honors tradition.  


As challenging and demanding as the sling is, upon the unique and inspired individuals who seek to master this sport.....

I perceive that we will continually inhabit an interesting and 'fickle niche', no matter our pursuits, on the short measure of road remaining for this reality.....as viewed by mortal man.

Peace,

TS

8)


P.S.  Symbolic Slingfest sounds lonely and hopeful at the same time......Fore!  Playing through!......

Hey larry that's a great idea. I would love to go out one morning and throw a rock knowing that all you guys are doing it at the same time. Perhaps we could all thro summin into the sea ?

As for categorys I think that there should be just the two. Target and distance with the same definions for sling and projectile. I don't think that I could throw any further with a piece of leather and a couple of bits of string than I could with a natural fibre plaited sling. I think it comes more down to how the projectile fits the sling and the slingers style and build.I might be wrong but, hey, thats how I feel.

That big get together in america or summin would be hard to do but it sounds great. I think that we will have to form some international organisation for slinging or sumthing to hold the comp/get-together under.
That way we could get our rules to be like the world rules for slinging.

why haven't we heard from chris on this subject yet ?

Citanils

DTB,

Thanks for the concern about flying me in, pal.  If this thing is a go I promise to make the best effort I can to be there.

Chris is a busy guy I am sure he'll voice his view soon.  May be we can set up the event near him so that he doesn't have to move.  Afterall he is a great host!

About the competition, I have an idea.

Instead of competing for the greatest distance, which require a large flat ground.  We can sling for the top speed.  

Set up a radar gun and a target.  The speed is only recorded if the slinger make a hit.  That way we can compet for both accuracy and power in a smaller area (even indoor) at one go.  

Any chance? :-/

Hey, if we were having it on Tint's golf course,  I would get there by inflatable raft......if necessary!

Or how about this idea,  we find the geographic center of of our combined locations....and charter a 'Slinger's Cruise'! (Didn't someone come up with that one earlier?)


LOL

8)

Tint, brilliant efficiency!  However it is my experience that much accuracy is traded for unmitigated speed. It would be a riot, though! 

im with the idea of us all slinging into the ocean at the same time. because i live in australia, it would be impossible for me to get to the wherever you are for the sling fest.
Tito

I can bet that many would be interested in obtaining a video or DVD of the event for the purpose of supporting the forum and further organizational efforts.

TS

OK, here is the problem: We are really spread out, and all to poor to pony up the cash to get together. So we need capital. I can see a few ways to do this. First we could make a movie. Like those ones that bowhunters make. "Order now! For only 22.99 you get three hours of rock flinging, head crushing, blood oozing, sling spinning, utter carnage! Mayhem with two cords! See Tint smash 30 windows in downtown HK in under a minute! See Techstuf slinging rocket propelled laser guided tracer trailing sling bullets at the police when they come to arrest Tint! Order now and get a bonus video DTB slings bricks at sheep and lets his mastiff tear them limb from limb! that's right, limb from limb! Then see lobo sling their limbs into the shark filled waters of the indian ocean, while hundreds of slinger sling grenades at them from a walt disney cruise lines ship!"

Or we could make a video where we sling money at drunk girls enducing them to go wild.

Either way.

Mike Im starting to wonder if some of those ideas dont come from personal expirence.   :o

I have a vague recollection of some girls, they might have been "going wild" but I can't be sure. I am however 75% sure that I never made a video.

Uh....seriously though, Mike..... 


Who told you about the R.P.L.G.T.T.S.B. project?


That was 'eyes only'.


Hope you're real happy.....

>:(




LOL....good one!

Whatever else happens, any future get togethers will be at Mike's place. He sounds like my kinda guy.

I can be in charge of the outtakes reel at the end.... 'heyyy, where did that one THUD'


Pat

now where am i going to get that many sheep?? ???

yep mikes sounds good sounds like an ex doorman i used to know

reminds me of a friend of mine whose name oddly enough is mike. im pretty shure there is no relation though :)

I was thinking we could use someone else's sheep.

Guys...really now... This thread STARTED out as being serious. This sheep buisness is silly and immature, and besides ANYONE who knows ANYTHING knows you use cows not sheep. Sheesh...   :P

i dont know we could use the wool from the sheep to make slinging.org T's.....

yer i take it you got dibs one the black sheep

i would happly sport a slinging.org shirt

imagine walking and seeing another person sporting a shirt

yes i do call dibs on the black sheep :) I would also happly wear a slinging.org shirt.  :)

Apart from the sheep bit, I mean really, mastiffs tend to be used to guard flocks - to tear one up you need a herding dog like border collie or german shepherd.

But as the whole record thing is doing the rounds again and this thread was before many of us joined thought I'd bring it back for a bit :-)

OK!
I found the forum, I braided myself a sling , I went out and came back soon after with bleeding fingers, I did'nt give up and soon got back into that lost groove and found that I could comfortably lob a fair sized stone about 120m out into the Med. Every now and again I would let rip and the only difference would be that the stone would do the same distance but with an almost horizontal trajectory as opposed to the usual 40 deg or so launch and loopy path. But 500m!! :o....wow! I dont know how it is possible. I dont know much about the dynamics of sling construction but I'm sure I can improve my distance with a " slinkyer sling" that has less air resistance and so on...but 500m??!  Wow.
Hats off to anyone who can do 250 nevermind 500m
The gauntlet has been layed so to speak and I aim to crack 200m asap ::)
I think the guy was slinging downhill with a tailwind ;)

lol well once you break the 200m mark with a short sling and a picked up stone - you realise that with lead bullets, longer sling and practice, 500 metre is doable.
Get the right orangutan shaped human and you could conceivably thrash that.

A shortarse like myself might  aspire to 4-500 - but get a very tall, very strong person and there's no reason they couldn't easily beat that.

C_A,

You brought up a good point...in my opinion, consistently achieving 200 meters with a "short sling and picked up stone" is just as impressive as those world records. I think that’s more relevant for the regular slinger, and it's what I'm trying to shoot for now, (even though I'm nowhere close to that distance).

Shabundi

think like an orangutan :-) and you arms will get longer ;-)

Do you like orangutan slinger girls?
Maybe a video for Slingfest? :P

as far as orangutans go - I'm not partial to either one or the other sex :-) (could be on dodgy ground with the local zoo if I claimed otherwise :-)

But they do have amazingly long and powerful arms that would be ideal for slinging :-)

Of course their legs are way too short - but they could always stand on a box :-)

a prefered style for them might be the helicopter. no need for a box then

I wonder, if you could teach orangutans and chimpanzees to sling... ;D
And have them compete against each other... :P

if you teach them to sling. Ill name one harry shave him and call him my cousin lol

Now, where to get orangutans...

Quote:

Now, where to get orangutans...

Borneo :-)

bump - 'cos this needs to be standardised as a sling design anyone can make (possibly even me)
And not just because orangutans need more web exposure :-)

C_A, which page is this design you mention on. There's a lot of discussion to wade through...

I'm looking into this for us. It appears we're about to break new ground here.

What's the current record

Mersa wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 5:41am:

What's the current record

http://paperlined.org/dev/oss/high_energy_slings/
go to "Force and energy comparisons"
the guinness records have a *
yurek (forum member) claimed 505m with lead but it's not confirmed by anyone

Thanks for that , so am I correct to assume that
505m is the unconfirmed wr
477m is the weird release dart sling
437m is furthest confirmed wr with a non flight projectile.

Numbers are amazing .
Think I'm going to find a spot I can have a good attempt at it.
Seems like 200m is pretty doable. I have no idea what distances I've thrown. Rough guess around 75-100m with very average projectiles.

Mersa wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 5:05pm:

so am I correct to assume that 505m is the unconfirmed wr 477m is the weird release dart sling 437m is furthest confirmed wr with a non flight projectile.

yes


Mersa wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 5:05pm:

Seems like 200m is pretty doable

yes, through the posts seems most members max at 200m distance.

Confirmed a over 100m throw with stone today.
Got it within 5 trys but lost 3 rocks.
Nice, stuck in the soil too so I know it didn't bounce.
First time I measured out a distance and tryed to get past the marker .
27inch sling. Overhead style( I don't know the names).
Wonder how much improvement can be made on sling and projectile mods.

I'll be keen to find a space I can try go further . Seems finding the projectile might be the biggest issue .

Mersa wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 4:08am:

Seems finding the projectile might be the biggest issue .

you don't need to find it ,just see where it landed or usually hear the impact on a strange object(like a tree/concrete in the middle of a field).
but it is still the biggest issue.

the best way would be someone to be in the range like they do in olympic javelin and other throws but in this case behind cover wearing protection with a walkie talkie to know when to come out.

yes you do need to find the projectile. That's kind of crucial for any distance record.

Given that any new records will most likely be with lead glandes. Realistically you'll need a disused aircraft runway.
Impact on the tarmac should show up quite well.
It's on one of my todo lists: 'find disused airfield for world record attempt'.

Curious Aardvark wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 6:49am:

yes you do need to find the projectile. That's kind of crucial for any distance record.

i was talking about unofficial records, not guinness world records.
if i remember correctly about yurek's record, he heard the impact on a concrete structure 505m away.

yeah, it's not a record.
unofficial or otherwise unless you can find the missile or impact point.

A clang half a kilometre away, while probably true - just isn't strong enough evidence for a claim.
And to be fair yurek never claimed a record, just said he'd heard it hit.

I've seen him sling stones 220-250m ,according to my judgement. I have no doubt, he did 505 with lead.

“Raising this thread from the dead”

Anyone think they could take out the WR ??

I’d be interested to see who’s confident?

With lead is probably the only way it's going to be beaten.
I can't think of anyone around who has both the technique and conditioning to throw as far as Larry bray.

Missile recovery is also a major issue. These days health and safety will kill most proposed attempts stone dead.

Honestly, I can't see it being beaten any time soon

Then we'll be waiting on someone big, strong, and exceptionally skilled with long slings.
I don't think I'll be threatening the world record in this life...  ;)

A while back, I looked at some of "VoloundExpounds' " videos on YT. For one of his 2m long sling videos (1mm thick UHWMPE), I was just making some very vague approximations, but I calculated 94 m/s in the last 1/4 turn of his throw. This was assuming 1/4 rotation, and a 2m radius, but it was 2*pi*(2m) * (0.25) for the distance traveled, and it did it in 8 frames, at 240 fps. So, 3.14m/ (.033s) = 94 m/s. This was an approximation, but damn that's fast.   His release angle was not optimal, but if it could become moreso, and the wobble in the projectile wasn't that bad, it could go VERY far.

Here's a fun calculator to play with, the final distance is very sensitive to the drag coefficients (as one would expect).

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/on4xzwtdwz

So to get an idea of how far a throw at that speed could travel, I took my best throw as an example. It was 220m with a 30" sling, and probably an 80g stone,(maybe up to 100g...I wish I would have weighed it).  Using that as a benchmark, and my fastest sling speed with a tennis ball (55m/s) I was able to arrive at the drag coefficients that allowed that sort of distance at a 35° release angle (Cd = 0.07, A=0.01, m=0.1). That gives 290m without drag, and 220m with drag.

Using the same drag parameters, if you move the release velocity up to 94 m/s, without drag, it can go ~850m, but with drag, it goes ~450m. These are approximate, obviously, since drag forces are VERY sensitive, but it gives you an idea of what's possible.

It makes me think that Larry Bray's throw (437m with a 50g stone) must've been 90+ m/s, I'd think.

And as a bonus here are some drag coefficients of normal objects.
https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/shaped.html
And how drag on a sphere is affected by speed through a fluid (air).
https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/dragsphere.html

Dale wrote on May 30^th, 2005 at 9:05pm:

What I, personally, regard as the world's record for a sling, was set by Larry Bray on 1981 August 21st: 1434 feet, 2 inches (478 yards or 437.1 meters) with a rock weighing 1.8 ounces (52 grams).  The sling was elk-hide and dacron cord, 51 inches (129.5 cm) in length. Here's a picture (from the gallery) of the sling and the rock, with a 2-ounce lead egg sinker (I think) and a ruler as reference objects. http://www.slinging.org/galleryimages/LarryBrays.jpg I think David Engvall's record should have been classified as something else.  Engvall slung a dart; Bray slung a ROCK.  So there.   ;) As for the rules, it seems to go something like this: you do something, and document (with witnesses) exactly what you did and how you did it.  Send that to the Guinness people.  They will decide whether they agree that what you did is remarkable, and where to fit it into the book.  Bray had to do this, and so did Engvall.  They agreed with Bray's definition of what a sling is, and also with Engvall's definition.  So there. If you're interested, Jurek got a copy of Engvall's letter to Guinness, claiming the record and telling how he did it, and posted it in the forum.   The letter was 13 pages long.  Unfortunately, only the first 4 pages of the letter are still available, but you get the flavor of what the Guinness people want.

Taken from page one

The equipment he did it with makes it so much more impressive.

I think slinging at thirst distances is reserved to a very small percentage of slingers.

I don’t believe claims over 500m and even if the launch velocity is high, as IG mentions there are a lot of things that can bring the distance down dramatically.

I think that it’s something that could be beaten (not by me)
But needs a very dedicated slinger.
Equipment, physical ability and finding the perfect place to attempt it.

I’d like to see if anyone thinks they could get that far. Sometimes people just need a push or a challenge.
I’d love to see some solid attempts

Another consideration is location. If they were at elevation, it would make it easier than at sea level.

I’ll use that as my excuse

I’m too close to the sea ha ha

what was the elevation of bray's record? maybe we can scale it down to sea level elevation.

If you could break the record how would you confirm it?
Many stones disappear from sight, some can be seen impacting let's say at 200m that doesnt mean that those you lost track of didn't make it past the 200m mark

Finding ammo and impact site is half the problem with distance slinging

the sling length is a major issue.
51.5 inches is ridiculously long and the vast majority of sling styles just can't cope.

Larry's technique - is unique and heavily based on the mechanics he learnt as a baeball pitcher.

he literally falls flat on his face at the culmination of a good throw. Every last erg of energy goes into the throw, even his body falling forward.
There's no real windup, it's impressive to behold :-)
And extremely difficult to duplicate.
I came closest to it when dave, badger and I were playing at chesil beach, somewhere I could fall forward on the upslope of a ridge made of pebbles. 
But even then it was with a 44 inch sling. larry isn;t much taller than me, but i just can't handle a 51inch sling very well.

The only other person I know/knew uses/used the same technique is Larry's nepher, troy.
Who by now would be a young man in his mid twenties (where do the years go ?).

If he's kept up his slinging in the last 14 years - and we could track him down and find somewhere to use lead - we'd possibly be in with a chance. 

It's a lot of if's.

luis pons livermore only uses a 40ish incher for distant slinging.
But given his size and physical conditioning - he'd be in with a chance.
If he could make a sling that worked well with a lead glande.

Oddly the sheer distance is the biggest limiting factor for a record attempt.

It's half a kilometre and change(maybe a lot of change, who knows), and you need the same distance to each side for safety.
The only way i can think of to do it, would be on a runway at an airport (abandoned or borrowed), with some drones overhead to track and spot the glande - which would need to be painted some garish day-glo colour to clearly register on the camera.

You need a surface hard enough that the glande will leave an impact mark on landing, but not so soft that it drills into the ground and disappears.

You can't have actual observers situated anywhere near the landing site.
I've been there and done that - it really isn't a good idea.

The logistics of an official world record attempt are probably far more the limiting factor than finding someone who can throw lead over 500 metres. It's a biggish world, and there might even be good distance slingers I haven't met :whistle:
stranger things have happened lol

I guess we could do it on salt flats, drones are going to be essential.
nce the glande lands ona slat flat, it's going to just vanish, so impact point needs to be clearly noted.

I would LOVE to do a proper distance event.

And if i ever find somewhere i can do it - I will.

Loa, Utah is apparently pretty high. The website I found listed it as "Elevation: 2152m / 7060feet".

Minimum velocity for a stone reaching 440m is 66 m/s. So, Larry's throw would be substantially higher. It also must've had some crazy time in the air. Assuming 7 seconds, that's 62.4 m/s average velocity, so it must've been longer than that.

I used a 5'10"sling, doubled.  I threw 1/4 mile routinely with good rocks.  Never tried lead that I can remember  but maybe a fishing sinker or two.  I used a full body spin like the hammer or discus guys.  I also was a pitcher and discus guy.

Most important, I could practice anytime in my property of 20  acres and  the nearest neighbor   1/3 mile away.  So only one risky direction.

KnollSlinger wrote on Jul 29^th, 2021 at 6:00pm:

I used a 5'10"sling, doubled.  I threw 1/4 mile routinely with good rocks.  Never tried lead that I can remember  but maybe a fishing sinker or two.  I used a full body spin like the hammer or discus guys.  I also was a pitcher and discus guy. Most important, I could practice anytime in my property of 20  acres and  the nearest neighbor   1/3 mile away.  So only one risky direction.

1/4 mile is 400m- so close to WR par. I'd love to see video of your technique (and perhaps even some loose verification of the range?).

What sort of weight stones do you throw?

JudoP wrote on Jul 30^th, 2021 at 7:24am:

KnollSlinger wrote on Jul 29th, 2021 at 6:00pm: I used a 5'10"sling, doubled.  I threw 1/4 mile routinely with good rocks.  Never tried lead that I can remember  but maybe a fishing sinker or two.  I used a full body spin like the hammer or discus guys.  I also was a pitcher and discus guy. Most important, I could practice anytime in my property of 20  acres and  the nearest neighbor   1/3 mile away.  So only one risky direction. 1/4 mile is 400m- so close to WR par. I'd love to see video of your technique (and perhaps even some loose verification of the range?). What sort of weight stones do you throw?

Not trying to be contradictory but its actually only slighlty more than half of the true world record. Just want to give credit where its due.

Stop it morph I won’t accept stupid claims of 800m
Naughty boy

Mersa wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 12:11am:

Stop it morph I won’t accept stupid claims of 800m Naughty boy

Are you suggesting people lie? On the internet? Intentionally?

And I thought I was the conspiracy theorist.  :)

The problem with saying you regularly threw huge distances, is how did you measure it and how did you find the thrown item.

Both are crucial and both are extremely difficult.

Also most humans are really really bad at estimating distances :-)

Using my recently roughly calibrated drag coefficient for a stone of 0.2 and the mass/x-sectional area of a particular projectile, I calculated that Larry Bray's throw, assuming a mass/area ratio of 60 and Cd or 0.2, had to have had a release velocity of ~90 m/s to reach 437m. That is 201mph!  With a lead projectile of the same drag coefficient, it would have reached just over 600m.

(Drag calibration: https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1637472403/10#10) 
(Distance calculator and mass/area: https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1637205605)



Truly incredible.

Nice IG
But I guess that this isn’t taking into consideration any potential lift from Magnus effect.
Regardless of the way he did it it’s impressive to say the least

I find the whole thing rather perplexing. When you have a sling that long, it doesn't respond to one's motion nearly as well. The distance of one's hand path is a limited, and when a sling gets to a certain length, to me it feels like it becomes disconnected.
I think Larry could perhaps have achieved the same with a much shorter sling.

Another thing that comes to mind:
Did he release at a ~41 degree angle? If so, how do you prevent the 51" sling from hitting the ground during the throw?

Mersa wrote on Nov 26^th, 2021 at 1:45am:

But I guess that this isn’t taking into consideration any potential lift from Magnus effect

Magnus effect causes elongated stones released with rifle-spin to corkscrew though the air. My question is, does that provide any lift? I can't see how it would myself.   

Well if you've got sufficient spin there is lift.
A clockwise spin should cause it to rise diagonally  to the right, and anticlockwise spin should cause it to rise to the left.

So while it won't go in a straight line, it should still rise.

Curious Aardvark wrote on Nov 26^th, 2021 at 7:57am:

Well if you've got sufficient spin there is lift. A clockwise spin should cause it to rise diagonally  to the right, and anticlockwise spin should cause it to rise to the left. So while it won't go in a straight line, it should still rise.

Found this on Wikipedia:
"The Magnus effect can also be found in advanced external ballistics. First, a spinning bullet in flight is often subject to a crosswind, which can be simplified as blowing from either the left or the right. In addition to this, even in completely calm air a bullet experiences a small sideways wind component due to its yawing motion. This yawing motion along the bullet's flight path means that the nose of the bullet points in a slightly different direction from the direction the bullet travels. In other words, the bullet "skids" sideways at any given moment, and thus experiences a small sideways wind component in addition to any crosswind component.[24]

The combined sideways wind component of these two effects causes a Magnus force to act on the bullet, which is perpendicular both to the direction the bullet is pointing and the combined sideways wind. In a very simple case where we ignore various complicating factors, the Magnus force from the crosswind would cause an upward or downward force to act on the spinning bullet (depending on the left or right wind and rotation), causing deflection of the bullet's flight path up or down, thus influencing the point of impact."

Best primer on spin drift (Magnus Effect)

https://youtu.be/OCA1njSxgv4

…and a bonus demo from yours truly:

https://youtu.be/4QEbyCOaZg4

https://youtu.be/OL_MgJT03nw?t=314

I called it "angle of attack curve" in the video later I realized it is called spin drift