im not going to make it i just want to know how it was made.  Medival gun powder, explosives, anything that explodes or burns. i know how to make pitch and that burns but now i want to know how to make exploding stuff out of plants natural things.

i know that most will not work most of the time i just want to document how to make them and add them to the book im making.

If it's any help, alchemists have known how to refine phosphur from urine since the 14th century.
There was a substance called Greek fire, whos recepe has been lost.
Dead pigs stacked together and burned under castle walls have been used since Roman times, to blow up walls.

Charcoal you can get anywhere, and sulfur is a little harder to come by, and saltpeter can be found in bird droppings. (good luck getting these in any real quantity.) Mix all three ingredients together and you have primitive gunpowder. My theory is that adding Magnesium sulfate to the gunpowder mixture will cause it to explode with a bright white flame. I haven't tried this yet, so don't quote me on this, but it looks promising.  As for explosives and incindieries from plants, I don't really have much of a clue. However, thanks to my google check this morning of "Primitive gunpowder and explosives" I've probably just added my name to Dubya's List of Potential Evil-Doers to Look Out Fer. But hey, an aluminum can full of match heads, and a row of nails taped around the outside, lit and thrown is an old IRA favourite anti-personnel device.

yes the greek powder i know about that. i wanted to make it so i spent 10 hours researeching it and i only found some ingredients all others are lost in history mainly because how our envirment is changing we lost the other element to make it. but it is a fire that stays lit for like 20 min and if you try to put it out with water it just gets bigger but i think you can smother it out but you couldnt cause they would use it in the ocean

That reminds me of making thermite, for some reason.
Nail bombs (or fullmontys, as I think they are nicknamed) are very nasty things. I think that animal fats are an obvious choice for an incendiary.
Stale urine and vinegar were said to be able to put Greek fire out.

gelled diesal or alachol

bird droppings eh? well any bird? i have a friend how has a perit and man that thing can crap.

i also know about greek fire. i have read someware that they have made something simalar to it, not as good but simalar, and it was made from sulfer and willow charchoal. all of this would be ground down and it ignights as soon as it hits mosture. like your skin. any one know what im talking about?

do you know the spicifick quantites of bird droppings, sulfer, and what was the other thing...Charcoal. maybe a manuel on how to make it?
If you dont know or you dont want to put it out on the forum you could message me ;) hahaha.

I can see it now.. birds around the world being stalked for thier droppings my members of our forum.


;D


I think any explosive based on these ingredients is not only primitive, but STINKY!

Why, Douglas my good man, it just so happens that I do know the exact proportions to make gunpowder! You're about to find out why one of my many nicknames is TerrorStrike. Okay, ready? 2 parts Charcoal, 3 parts sulfur and 15 (that's right, 15 parts) saltpeter. That parrot of your friend's had better start crapping like it was going out of style if you want to start producing any pyrotechnics anytime soon! And yeah, if you take equal parts gasoline and packing peanuts, mix them together and wait for them to congeal, they tell me you can make a pretty nasty sort of home-made napalm.

or you can use coal and phosperes nitrate to make gun powder

Hmmm....
 
Quote:

i know that most will not work most of the time i just want to document how to make them and add them to the book im making.

Quote:

i have a friend how has a perit and man that thing can crap.

A book eh?

 Anyways....
Explosives are, to the survivalist or primitivist, less than useful.  BUT they might be used to start a fire (gunpowder ignited by sparks) or to scare of evil crazy creatures.  I can't think of another use.
 Can be quite fun to play around with.  My friend Chris uses a mixture of fertiliser and sugar in old pie tins turned to make a sort of flying sourcer filled with explosive, with a round piece of cardboard separating the ingredients - when they mix, they explode.  A pin is placed in the one of the tins, right up to, but not penetrating, the cardboard.  Then, pressure on the pin causes a small explosion.  He blew off the wheel on a wheelie bin with one.

well the book is not on survival but on all sorts of weapons used in primitive times. from cave man to late middle ages.

And that parit can crap. its name is bubby but my friends father calles it poopy box. haha any way they have several birds all of them verry good at crapping. I think my friend would be thrilled if i asked him if i could clean out his birds cages.

by the way how long can i keep the crap befor it becomes use less? whats the best charcoal? and whats the shelf life of the explosive its self?



ok thats 2 things that go boom and burn that i know of. keep the primitvie booms and bangs coming.



i have been tempted to make exploding staff sling ammo. My friend (same one with the crapping birds) has a grandmother and she has a kiln. and she has lots of ceramick hollow eggs. I wanted to try filling thoes eggs with the primitve powder and make a nice long wick, light, throw, duck, and cover.

So if i come back to the site, with even less typeing skills i have blown off my fingers. ;D

well how can you write a book with out some hands on?

I wonder how well that egg thing would work? My origanal plan called for black powder but the eggs are way too big for that. That would be way too much black powder. I would need a brick wall if i where going to try that. and god help me if it falls out of the sling.

You know, oil works very well as a propellant.  I remember quite vividly a science lesson where my mad science teacher showed us about energy by taking us outside and setting off two mortars.  Two long pipes with tin cans as ammo.  One had oil and one had gunpowder.  The oil actually fired much further.

cool when was oil discoverd? It needs to be discovered by the late middel ages or earlyer for me too include it in my book ;D

Douglas the Black,

I found a book called "Homemade gun powder cook book" at Paladin press.  You might want to check it out.

Reply to this and that'd be you 401st post!  

Godly member Douglas the Black

Hey cool! here i am at last english, gun, and solobro! haha i gota prepare my speech. haha

"the world is full of ass holes and i dont know why
the wold is full of ass holes but i wont weep and cry
so grab you blade and sling and well let the glands fly
the world is full of ass holes i got that one in the eye!"

haha

yep i have seen that book. never bought it thou. thanks for the clue in on my statous i would of decended into godly hood without even knowing it!

wrote on Nov 11^th, 2004 at 11:17am:

You know, oil works very well as a propellant.  I remember quite vividly a science lesson where my mad science teacher showed us about energy by taking us outside and setting off two mortars.  Two long pipes with tin cans as ammo.  One had oil and one had gunpowder.  The oil actually fired much further.

Yes indeed it does.. and so does gasoline.  But the diesel engine is most efficient.

I used to have a pump up Benjamin air rifle.  It could put a pellet into 1" of pine.  My sling can do MORE of course.

But anyway, to the point, there was a warning not to get oil into the air chamber.  It could detonate giving "too much power" to the projectile and damaging the gun.  Since it was my gun, I never violated the rule.

But I did wonder, could a gun be designed to exploit such a property, perhaps firing with a spark plug?

Primitive gunpowder can be blown up by static electricity.
Things to remember about primitive powder! (I've "used" some powder acquired from old bullets)
Never use metal tools when preparing gunpowder. The slightest spark and you have a load of powder rapidly decomposing in your face.
The smaller the grain the faster it burns, small grains in a big egg=big boom!
It's easy to light, and burns with an orange, extremely dirty, flame.
Oh, and the number one rule:
ANY HOMEMADE EXPLOSIVE DEVICE IS STUPID!

haha yes i know this. i know the dangers quite well. but im 16, and fond of weapons. I want too give this a try. I am going to do some testing before i fling the real thing, like i need too see how big of a boom it makes, and i need to see how far i can fling the egg first. Im even going to build a blast wall.


I use the excuse that im 16 quite alot, i wonder what ill use when im 20? im just a young man? haha ill be useing that untill im 60 then ill use Im just a senile old man. If i last that long playing with explosives.

;D

A knight in the midevil times reached his prime at 16.. mostly dead by 18.

I'd play it safe if I were you and mix no more.  :-X

A medieval knight would probably become a knight at 16, but probably would not be in his prime.  Around 25, he'd be at his prime.  And he probably wouldn't be killed to early - remember that a knight would be captured and ransomed, whereas a commoner would be killed, and a knight probably wouldn't take part in many battles, believe it or not.  Maybe one or two large battles per generation.
 Anyway, I have to agree with Matt_C, that explosives are kinda stupid.

yes i realize this. and i aggree with him. but, I just want to give it a try. Im going to use a very long wick and a blast shield. Ill have my uncle who makes muskets there with me. It will be dangerus and stupid. but i just gotta give it a try.

Remember to test whatever material you are putting the gunpowder into that it won't shard like glass when it bursts, otherwise you could get hurt quite easily, it would be best to use quite crumbly non-varnished clay, just for the sake of safety (it'd suck having a 1 or 2 inch shard of clay shoot into you). And remember basic firework rules (hey, it's dumb to do it, but if you are anyway, might as well make sure that you get all the safety help you can).

yes im abandoning the clay idea all together in favor of an egg. Still sharpnal but at least itll be small sharpnal. And im throwing it into a lake. Altho i want to do this  its unlikley that i will get the chance. 15 parts bird crap is hard to come by. not to mention the sulfer witch is even more hard to come by. I think that this is only a dangerus dream and that it will just go in my book.  :(

I personally wouldn't do any experiments with black powder using bird droppings. Yes, saltpeter does occur when large colonies of birds or bats live in an area for an extended amount of time. However, these droppings need to "age". I won't get into the details. Anyways, if you truely are interested in aquiring saltpeter( potassium nitrate or sodium nitrate) there is an very interesting procedure that uses animal waste/urine developed arond the middle ages, or you can purchase it from your local drug store. If interetsed in making it yourself, I suggest doing a Google search for "nitre beds" or "saltpeter manufacture".

wrote on Nov 9^th, 2004 at 8:16am:

My theory is that adding Magnesium sulfate to the gunpowder mixture will cause it to explode with a bright white flame. I haven't tried this yet, so don't quote me on this, but it looks promising. .

i used to add metalic magnesium powder to cloratite (powder made with ClO3K) it makes bright flares and/or explosions to ruin your night vision for long.

wrote on Nov 10^th, 2004 at 8:41pm:

I wonder how well that egg thing would work? My origanal plan called for black powder but the eggs are way too big for that. That would be way too much black powder. I would need a brick wall if i where going to try that. and god help me if it falls out of the sling.

Not too long ago (ten years or so) they sold here some kind of fireworks intended to set off by impact, they named it "biker's thunders", basicly it was some kind of powder packed tight with gravel in a piece of heavy duty paper tied with hemp cord, they were to be thrown by hand, but we used to shoot them with a slingshot increasing range and accuracy ;D they gave a nice explosion, nothing too harmful cause packs had little powder but the sudden explosion was nice, and sometimes target gets hit with the gravel ;D we also used fuse fireworks with the slingshot but fuse sparks nd smoke could give away our sniper position (luckly people were looking in the wrong direction hehehe) ;D
We tried to do the stuff with  a mix of ClO3K, sulphur and coal,(all ingredients very fine grinded) but 50% of them didn't exploded, i could improove rate of explosions over 80% adding some strike anywhere matches powder, but i can't get those matches nowadays. i think kind of gravel is also important, we used any gravel, but may be some flint gravel can improove performance.
i guess it would work ok with a sling making bigger packs (biker's thunders were about 1x0,5 inches aprox.)

p.d. i used strike anywhere matches boxes as airgun targets, they set off when hit by the pellet ;D

we have those fire works your talking about here zorro. we call them snappers. I use to take them apart and put them all into a container then thow the container. I stoped this when i was trying to make a very very large explosion useing the snapper gravel stuff when i bumped the container i was using on acedent. They all went just from being bumped and i went temporaly deaf for a few minets. This was about 2 hours worth of unwrapping the little packets and dumping them in the contaner. So i just gave up.


Many of you will be happy to know that im abandoning the gun powder. Far too dangerus to throw with my sling. i dont want to risk it falling out and unpleasent ness happaning too me. so im just going to make some small clay pots and fill them with burning pitch. and ill throw that. Still dangerous but a little safer. I also think it would be more deavestating in the long run. the pitch pots would be thrown and they would break on impact getting the burning pitch all over what ever it hit. would be deavestating on villeges. with there wooden homes and straw/grass roofs.

"GREEK FIRE" is/was a sort of generic term for any substance that could burn in the presence of water. Ancient armies and navies all had their own secret recipes for it, kind of like chili; and like recipes for chili the ingredients may be slightly different but the results are the same. Hot, stinky fire that water can't put out! ;D

well i for one wish they would not have been so secrative.  :)

I know all about homemade gunpowder, napalm, trying to make greek fire, all sorts of neat stuff.

Greek fire must have had pitch, gunpowder such stuff, maybe napalm......... and lye. Lye burns when it hits water.....so does sodium. hmmmmm. What if you had an extremely flammable gel with sodium, that would ignite it, and use that at sea, with  boats literally soaking wet with chemical blasting caps?

Greeks must have been good at that.

Sodium probably hadn't been discovered BCE.  Zinc, for instance, an easier to extract metal, was only discovered properly in around 1500 CE.  Gunpowder, of course, came from China.  So it's a bit of a mystery as to what they did put in, wily ancient folk.

Here is an ancient recipe for Greek fire mentioned in Knights New American Mechanical Dictionary 1874-1884:
 "Aspaltum, Nepta, Dragantum, Pix Quoque Graeca, Sulphur, Vernicis, De Perolio Quoque Vitro.
 Mercurii, Sal Gemmae Graeci dicitur ignis."

Hope you're up on your Latin. Even if you are, there are no amounts given for each ingredient.

Another recipe reads thus:
 "Take of pulverised resin, sulphur, and pitch equal parts; one fourth of oppopanax and of pigeons' dung well dried, disolved in turpentine water or oil of sulphur; these put into a strong, close, glass vessel and heat for 15 days in an oven; after which distill the whole in the manner of spirits of wine and keep for use."
 
 Hope that helps in your scholarly ventures.

Yep and thanks. ill write that down.

Wow.
Greeks must have been busy, messing around with pidgeon poop and turpentine and such.

how did they discover thsi in the first place?


alchemists?

Willow Trees make the best Charcoal for use in pyrotechnics.

Also if you just mix in 75% Potassium Nitrate (KNO3), 15% Charcoal Powder, and 10% Sulfur, then you aren't going to have black powder. You would have what is refered to as green powder. Which is about 30-45% less powerful then black powder.  In order to get "Black Powder" all the ingredents need to be ball milled for 2-4 hours (atleast 2-4 hours for small amounts under 1000grams, don't know about larger, as I never work with anything larger then 300 grams at a time). It is vital that you only use lead balls, otherwise you are likely to get a spark, and blow up your ball mill. Ball Milling infuses the charcoal with KNO3, and makes it much more effective.

I actully did hear on this history channel show, that people use to boil down cow urine, and somehow were left with pretty good Potassium Nitrate. The Charcoal is gotten my simply burning a dried williow, but as for the Sulfer, I do not know of a place to get/make it that was around back in those days.

As for starting a fire with water, there are several different chemical mixtures that will result in flaming if H20 is present in any amount. The only one that I have ever used, is made by mixing;   28 %  Ammonium Nitrate, 3 % Ammonium Chloride, and 69 % Zinc Dust. Mix the powders together, pour it in a small pile and put a drop of water on it. In about a second, it will bubble and smoke and instantly burst into a blue-green flame. However, after all powders are mixed, it becomes very water sensitive, and should be mixed on the spot, and used right away.

I have no idea what Greek Fire was made out of, but I know that whatever it was, it must have has its own oxidizer, otherwise when smothered with water, it would go out (as there is no more  O left for the fire to burn).

I also can't stress safety enough. While BlackPowder is dangerous, if you follow all safety rules, and don't leave the BP in containers that would allow moisture to get in, then the it is almost 100% stable, unlike some other LEs and all HEs.


EDIT:  http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/16.html explained to me how/where people got sulfur, although it wouldn't be something most people would be able to get...

Hey.
Couldnt you get sulfur from Mt. Vesuvius?

Volcanoes have "brimstone" thats sulfur

I suppose the italians must have had the market on sulfur.

Tis true, wherever you find a volcano, you'll likely find sulfur.

 Or you could go to the garden store and pick up a five pound bag of the stuff... ;D

in cyprus some of the farmers used saltpetre as weedkiller or somthing like that an american once told me you can make saltpetre from commercail grade washing powder also instead of sulfer you can aparantly use suger my uncle buys kilogram bags of saltpetre of the net for making blackpowder

all i know is that blue vitriol or saltpeter will kill the hell out of any blasted sheep... but will leave your cattle alone.

Well i burned some pitch yesterday. man that stuff gos up! saturday i hope too try throwing my pitch pot. I have a question. must that pitch be in liquid state to ignight or can i have it in a solid and then throw a match on it?

once i have tested my pitch pot ill let you guys know how it gos.

how do you get pitch?


do you buy it or collect it off the trees?


If anyones wondering heres a recipe for self lighting explosive or incendiary.


16parts organic nitrate (guano)
4 parts sulfur
3 parts willow charcoal
pitch
oil
lye
sodium nitrate, magnesium, phosphorous.
all ground finely SEPARATELY
then mixed

ps holy macaroni does this stuff have power

dont make it, the lye will light the explosive on your hands, i neede d sand to put out the fire

it burns on moisture

first few posts has stuff on making pitch. I just take it off of the pine tree and heat it up. pick off all the crap that is not melted sap and you have some nice pitch. heat it too long and you have terpentine.

cool

yes the outside of the can got soo hot it turned black and the paper cought on fire. i threw water on it so it would not catch the stump that my little brother sits on, this was a bad idea that water steamed then shot up in the air. it was one of the coolest things i have ever seen. the water was hotter then hell by the way.

next time ill use sand.

sand should work
either that or sodium bicarbonate.


baking soda and vinegar puts out some fires.

i just cant remember what that fire fighter told me about grease fires.
maybe not to burn french fries??

haha grese fires suck. you cant put them out. and your mostlikly to get burned.

I was a firefighter as well as a welder in the Navy and I can tell you that a deep fat fryer fire (say that fast!) is one of the most feared fires to fight on a ship.
 A good simulated Greek fire situation might be had with just a good ol' grease fire...or is it a GREECE fire?  WAAA HAA HAAHAA!! ;D

Ever eat greek? I have had tradishanal gyros, grape leafs, and other odd inpronouncabul greek foods, right from a greek immagrent. she lives close too my house, and all of her children moved away. and she feeds me all that greek food. Im surprised that i dont look like a zit. She cooks with a lot of oil and stuff. Foods good but greecy.

I just went out for lunch with a Greek girl.  We didn't have Greek food, but oh well.....
 Maybe Greek Fire was just a load of fat with added chemicals.

Mmm Greek food...well...I think that ouzo is better then most solid stuff....:P

Greek food sucks

Greek food is nice.  Why do you think it sucks?

GreekHater! Greek food rules. I was watching the news today and this fireman was talking about all these fire that got started by people deep frying turkey. No doubt, who would suspect that five gallons of boiling oil is flamable?
That makes me think that olive oil would burn too.

I love greek food too. And ill give that olive oil thing a try.

I was always under the impression that olive oil was burned in some capacity for lighting, etc.

 I just tried to ignite, with a butane lighter, a tablespoon full of first cold pressed, extra virgin olive oil with NO success. It would not ignite.

Any thoughts?

try soaking a cotton ball and proping it abov a candle

with long twezers so you dont get burnt ;)


so far i have only thrown one pitch pot. It went good. but i was able to have it allready in its liqued state. I wanted to try lighting it up while it was a solid. That is harder then hell to do. I couldent get the pitch to light up while it was a solid. couldent keep a fire going long enough to make the pitch melt, then ingnight.

english in my experiance greeks girls tend to be quite hairy and dont age well butmy brother lost his v plates to one in the woods so they cant be bad. good luck i used to live in cyprus.
hope i have not annoyed anyone

try powdering the pitch and puting dry cotton wool in with it to allow air with it maybe put some vasaline near the wick to keer the flame going when it smashes

ok ill give that a try. what i did with the first one was have my staff sling at the ready. then we put the pot in the pouch. then we threw a match in there, it went up quick. we then put a lid on with a pice of duck tape and I threw it. it flew nicely and smashed into the parking lot spraying that nasty smelling pitch every where.

I was going to add an oil soaked rag for a wick on the next one i try. I need to make it so i could trans port this pot without having to need to heat it up every time i want it to light. or am i just screwd there?

maybe just keep some petrol with you that should allow it to stay lit without it being warmed up just be very careful my old boss set his arm on fire and it wouldnt go out if yousing your staff slig with fire try to adapt your style by slinging sideways so if any flaming goo flings off of the pot cracks it will go sideways not up then down and dont do it in the rain or the hot pot will crack when the rain hits

I sling off of my right sholder. And i was thinking about using oil to get it started. Just a few drops would burn real hot and catch to pitch shouldent it?

yep but diesil needs a fuse tissue paper should work 7 parts petrol to 1 water (i think thats the right way) burns will

let some petrol soak into the powdered resin put a oily rag halfway into the resin as a wick

hmm wonder what the water does.

proberly slows the burning down

dont leave an oil soaked rag anywhere besides a sealed metal can overnight.

it somewhat instantaneously combusts or somethign, and it will burn down your toolshed or whatever you got to work in

wow

what could be more primitive than a single element droped ino one of the four elements of nature

DO NOT DO THIS
sodium droped into water reacts violently i once borrow some from a high school chem lab when i was a kid because a little bit looks like a water bug zipping around on the water cool huh
DO NOT DO THIS
well a large amount like a table spoon explodes causes third degree burns on face and hands even eyes
DO NOT DO THIS
and a small peanut size can full of sodium thrown into a sand pit full of water
makes you think armgedon has come
DO NOT DO THIS

LOBO, that is NO joke! I stuffed a little bar of sodium into a piece of soap and flushed it down the crapper when I was in high school.Nothing happened untill just about lunch time. The city had to bring a crew out and dig up some of the street to get at the busted drain line.
 With power comes responsibility.

When I was a little bastard back in my high school days we pinched a piece about the size of a fist from the lab. Went to the principals house in the dead of night. Rigged a thing where we used a ice cream bucket with holes in it over the sinking chemical and a brick tied to the bottom. Then put it in his hot tub, slammed the lid down and ran like hell.

The explosion so awesome, water shot up higher than his house, there were flames(green I think) and the hot tub was totalled!

very dangerous but fun stuff

yeah...
sodium soem really dangerous smack

none of you are reporting from jail are you? I have been doing my explosives in controled conditshons you guys are vandalizing, and reckless endangerment.

haha misspent yuth indeed.

once apon a time kids had a lot more freedom i was born to late do a bit of light poaching and then you will see how it feels when you rogueish spirit is awakend

Yeah, that's right.  Poach.

e=fd r sst p

in other words.

explosives=fun, danger.... requires stupidity, supplies, and lack of Parental supervision.

that sums it up neatly

maybe i should write a book....

call it get of your playstation you wasters

haha im writing a book i just bought the parchment paper and i have been working on burning a design on the cover of my book no writhing yet.

wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2004 at 7:35pm:

none of you are reporting from jail are you?...

 Funny you'd mention that. Before I went into the Navy I blew up a neighbors mailbox with a black powder pipe bomb. I was spotted by several witnesses and faced 2 to 3 years in the federal pen. That's right, here in the U.S. it is a FEDERAL offense to manufacture explosive devices. The BATF botched the investigation and had to drop it. I'll never build a bomb again.

And it a fedreal crime to mess with someone's mailbox too.

Wow, that's some crazy stuff.  Interesting.  A bit draconian, I think.

This is an excellent thread. I think it should be brought back. I think we could have alot of fun discussing explosive stuff-  ;D

I just made a little fire rock. It is a small (2- 3oz ) stone wrapped with cotton balls. Just plain huge cotton puffs would be easier to wrap around the stone but I didn't have any. I then just kept the cotton onto the rock with a little twine. I'm gonna shoot it tomorrow and see how it burns. I am planning to simply light the cotton balls with a lighter, and sling. I'll tell everyone how it works and if it is wanted, I'll take some pics.

i think it will blow out in the air if its just cotton but i would love to hear how it goes.  :)

I've tried to make some small explosives(dang moles), for blowing up moles holes. They didn't work very well, just fireworks powder and I mixed a little charcoal and chicken s$%% with it, because it looked like it needed it. It did make a little crater, but it was just like a regular firework wrapped in ducttape. I have buried one into a molehill and it did blow it up. I think it works more on like rapidly expanding hot gas and less on shattering force, if  you know what I mean. Cordite has shattering force. Flashpowder has rapidly expanding gas.

wrote on Nov 9^th, 2004 at 5:04am:

If it's any help, alchemists have known how to refine phosphur from urine since the 14th century. There was a substance called Greek fire, whos recepe has been lost. Dead pigs stacked together and burned under castle walls have been used since Roman times, to blow up walls.

Yeah, pig farts are explosive. Sounds funny, but true

just fill a tennis ball with match heads and shot it out a spudzooka

I just tried the little fireball and the cotton did go out when it went through the air, so I decided to make it more flammable. I dabbed sizzling pine sap on the rock, then put the cotton on, and then completely covered the cotton in more pine sap. I didn't shoot it, but instead just lit it and put  it on the ground and watched it burn. The pitch is incredible! It burned for 5 minutes just sitting on a rock! I don't even think the cotton was needed. And when that pitch catches on fire, it really is hot! I still have a welt on my finger from this afternoon.  :'(  But really, I would love to just launch one of these at a nice dry thatched house  ;D

pitch is fun. Some day try to get some KNO3 and dump that in with the pitch. Its hard to put it out! Some day try burning greese it burns quite well.

KN03??

With pitch, do you have to boil it first to get out all the impurities and then boil it again. Just like in the instructions in guides and articals section? Or are there other ways to prepare it?
Just curious. Haven't tried anything yet. Maybe I'll launch something in my new onager when I'm done building it!!

Would grease from store bought steak patties work? Will I need to prepare it in anyway?

I was once told by a pyro not to play with fire.
To bad I'm not going to heed that  ;D

KNO3 is just saltpeter stands for K=potassium N=nitrate O= oxygen

potassium nitrate :)

anyway i dont know i would light the fires on the ground first see how it burns then throw.

Try melt the grease/tallow and soak napkins/toilet paper/any soft paper in it, let it cool. I call these things "fireslugs" and they are perfect for lighitng fires in rain.
Of course, I have many more ideas, but they are too evil to post them there :-/.

EDIT: It is easier to post them there than to PM two people. You all are just sooo lucky I cannot believe it :D.
Okay: Waxes, grease, tallow and butter can be used to make a violently burning mixture by melting them and letting sawdust, napkins, toilet paper, shredded straw, thin wooden shavings and such absorb it, then letting it cool. Wax and sawdust is best of all wax mixes and shoe polish with a napkins is good too, shoe polish alone burns well and if you add sawdust to it, sticky, very flammable paste is the result. Tallow and grease are generally better for use with absorbent paper than anything else and they are runny when they burn, igniting anything they are lying on. Pitch is good to add in bigger pieces to paste or jelly-like mixtures to prolong flame duration. Also, napalm with several golfball-sized pieces of wax-sawdust mix is interesting... They burn and roll away, spreading the diameter of destruction. My most dangerou invention is called "Inferno in a jar" and is composed of styrofoam napalm to which sulphur-KMnO4 mix is added. This mix is unstable, so mix shortly before use. Mix well and light. It cannot be extinguished by normal means and the temperature is extremely high, enough to warp metal things in proximity and burn through thin sheet metal.
Also, lighting pool of napalm in which a butane pressure bottle for blowtorch is floating yields interesting effect, as well as placing small charge of black powder under a bag of gasoline... but that's no longer primitive, I see.
Quick and dirty way to primitive incendiary: Melt anything waxy or gresy, soak it into something flammable and porous, ideally divided into fine particles, and you have fine incendiary.
Easiest explosive(propellant) is made by dry mixing saltpeter and sugar. Wet mixing(add hot water until it is dissolved, then cook it on low heat until it has fudge-like consistency, then spread it on a sheet, dry a bit and press through a window mesh to granulate, dry further) is better, after that you have something that can power a shotgun or some other long-barreled big bore. It burns too slow to be of any use for pistols. Bottle-necked rifle cartridges are good and long barrels are mandatory, but the power is good.
You can make ceramic grenades from this propellant and thick-walled round shaped clay vase. Power is not great, but then again, what do you expect from thing that is around from the invention of means of obtaining saltpeter from manure?
DISCLAIMER: I am not responsible for anything you do with this information or any information for that matter. If you blow something up or burn it down, you are on your own. Enjoy.

pm me with them ;)

PM me too

Haha. It's a lot simpler than I though it would be. Thanks man.

Just got finished reading the thing between techstuf and beaverbutt.(I know there are others in that convo but can't remember who)
Sorry techstuf, but I perhaps it will help you to know that..... I gurantee to everyone that I'll be carefull and will use these in as much of a mature manner as I can. Of which, don't mean to sound proudfull, I believe I can do well.
And I will also do it under the supervision of an adult.

Hope that helps ease anyones mind. Even though none of you know me personally and cannot hold me to it, I will still fulfill it. :)

just yesterday i put wood shavings in a jar full of saltpeter and water, today i took out the shaveings and mixed that in with some melted wax. It burns quite well, im thinking of adding a little carbon to the mix nexttime.

stenny what are you calling napalm ?
Napalm should spontaneously combust in normal atmosphere, so if you're having to light it - it's not napalm mate.

i think napalm is just a very general term that most of us use.  :)

Noooo... Napalm, true napalm, is just gelled gasoline and nothing else. There ARE modifications, however, that include white phosphorous for igniting the gas by contact with air or adding high-percentage hydrogen peroxide, this mix ignites when it hits the ground after being thrown from airplane. Tried additives include brick dust and quartz sand for white hot slag on the napalm blob, naphthalene for thicker smoke nad higher burning temperature, coal dust and sawdust to prolong burning, numerous else. But the "NaPalm" term refers to Naphthalene and Palmitate, which were originally used to gel the gasoline. Today's napalm can be any gelled hydrocarbon, because numerous variats was tested.
My napalm is mixture of styrofoam, toluene and gasoline. Sometimes I add something, but there is no room to discuss it - no PMs, as well.

fair enough :-)
And you play with this a lot do you ?

ps
(take a look at the topic title). So basically any kind of complex hydrocarbon with the exception of crude oil and tar and some sugars - which occur naturally. Can not be primitive as they are all distilled and or cracked which is not a primitive skill.

In fact I'm not sure it's possible to have primitive explosives - in the true meaning of the word.
With the possible exception of naturally occuring flammable gasses contained in some kind of membrane. Methane balloons made with intestine - for an example.

This would actually be an interesting topic - if it hadn't been somewhat sidetracked :-)

ive heard that aluminum foil rolled into balls in a bottle of detergent explodes but other than that im not much hel :-/p

aluminium and sodium hydroxide produce hydrogen gas - which is explosive.

when my dad was small he made a rocket by spot welding a cone onto a metal pipe and filled ait with black powder he lit it and ran behind a snow maobile trailer and you can pobably guess what happened they couldnt find this guys dog 4 awhile

Uh... pipe bombs camouflaged as rockets are not primitive in any way.  Beside that, you should have a deaf dog(not bang so much that he will go deaf - just buy a deaf dog in the first place) if you plan to experiment with these things.

aardvark:It depends on what do you call primitive. If you call so only things that man can do with bare hands in wilderness, then it is not possible to have explosives and even incendiaries except pitch. You can throw closed thick walled ceramic vases filled with water into fire and they will explode, but it is a mechanical, not chemical explosion.

And yes, my dog is deaf.

I was basically working on the assumption that primitive did not include a detailed knowlege of organic chemistry and the complex equipment to use that knowlege.

Essentially everything below simple alchemy would be primitive.
ie: mix odd thing one with odd thing 2 and light.
To me primitive chemistry should involve only naturally occuring salts and chemicals - bizarrely this would include gunpowder as all three ingredients occur naturally in the wild and will work fairly well with crude mixing.
Distilling is out. Reaction vessels to produce third party chemicals is out.

That's what I call primitive chemistry :-)

hmm i see it as anything you can make primitvely. Like with only a bowl, and a fire, any thing you can find that the primitive people you like had then you can use it.

You can make balls of fire. just get a tenniss ball and drill a hole puor a hole gallon of fluid lighter and light it up my brother almost made me become on fire because that idiot kicked the fire ball at me bouncing every wherealmost wenr under a car!

Woooooww i love exsplosives in asia when u get the chip lighter fluids and it runs out try to break it.... it will exsplode my the time it cracks lol!!!

You can use the deo sprays as flame throwers but dont spray too long it might exsplode!!!!

My friend and his buddies made a pipe bomb but it was so strong that it flew and when through some kids heel bad bad kid i tell ya thos $@!$@ rascals

So Billy, let me tell you this:
Pipe bombs are illegal.
Lighting tennis balls full of gasoline is NOT to be done anywhere near any person that is dumb enough to kick this pocket inferno at you and you should do it yet farther away from any cars or property which does not belong to you. You can burn your car to the ground and nobody would care, but endangering other people by mere ignorance is showing that you should stay away from these things as you will blow yourself up soon probably.
Igniting pipe bombs near people is bad and generally frowned upon by most legislatives.
Pipe bomb that fly after ignition is not strong, but it is a sign that the explosive inside it was poorly made and slow burning.
Anyone know that by lighting the aerosol jet from any can marked as "(Highly) Flammable" makes for a nice spray of fire until flame burns the nozzle away and causes a explosion that will shatter the can in your hand, leaving you severely burned, missing a hand and blinded by high-temperature expanding gasses and flying fragments.
Breaking any pressurized container marked by "Do not try to open this as it will explode in the proccess", as they are usually marked like this, is foolish.
Things like "Oh yeah, I made a fireball which almost set me on fire and pipebomb which almost injured several innocent bystanders" are unwelcomed by many people belonging to this forum as far as I know.
Four post in a row are unnecessary as you can use edit button.
If you have read previous post, then you know that I am also interested in pyrochemistry and that I play with a fire(and not only fire) pretty much and for long. I have had several accidents, but they were all caused by unpredicable circumstances and not by my foolishness. Also, I sport all twenty fingers and my scars are not caused by pyrotechnic. I have never injured anybody else, letting alone someone unconcerned. One thing you should remember:
Making pyrotechnics, incendiaries, destructive devices and related things can be fun, but it is DEADLY SERIOUS bussiness. I know it. In this hobby, second chances are not given. Unless you are really very carefull, you are looking at mangling or killing yourself or someone else in a short period of time. Either grow up or quit this hobby.

Who actually read this to the very end?

I did and i agree with you :) I always light anything off near a lake and i only make small things. Never big things.

And I'm not sure if english is your first language wild billy. If not - fair enough it's better than my catalan :-). If it is then try and type slower and use sentences that make more sense please :-)

And a 'hole gallon' of lighter fluid in one tennis ball - might be considered overkill by some.

how do you fit a gallon in one of thos small things? i would be surprised to fit a cup.

lmao that's why it's overkill, you get covered in the excess and get killed :-)

Not fun  :(  Anyone know how to make primitive explosives? I mean I know how to make primitive incendiaries with pitch, but how would you make something that blew up using only materials from outside? Can it be done?

i would think that if you could contain the incedirary then it would explode. Like make primitve gunpowder, and place it in a tightly sealed clay pot.

Last words of young man who plays with homemade explosives " Hay everybody! Watch this!" :o

I remeber one boy who told me that he can spit fire. I knew that he is a well... a bit dumb to put it mildly, so I told him to stop boasting and get lost. After that, he put a shot of 80 percent alcohol in his mouth and ignited his Zippo. I shouted at him to stop and tried to grab the lighter, but he was too far away(three meters) and spat sooner that I can get to him.  The experiment proved that he in fact can spit fire, but penalties were harsh. His Zippo hand was badly burned as well as his mouth and part of windpipe(he yelled from pain when flame hit his hand and breathed some hot fumes and flame). He made it out alive, though. Always stand near a pool while trying to spit fire, kids.

Fresh bamboo explodes when thrown in fire, but it is more for effect than anything else. Primitive gunpowder in clay vase will be enough, but remember that a supersonic sharp piece of fire-hardened clay is just as nasty as supersonic sharp piece of metal when flying round your head, so keep your distance - as Zero, famous man in certain community, once said about piece of seltzer cartridge shrapnel: Note that having this flying at your head at fantastic velocity is not good. :D

Hey stenny, I too read all that you typed in that post and agree with it all.

I used pitch for the first time this weekend. Was very cool. I tried to melt it down to clean it out. And it caught on fire. It burns just fine with dirt in it. :)
Though it did burn better in liquid form and clean.
Anyone know what tempeture pitch has to be to ignite?

I haven't read all the post in this topic so my apologies if this has been asked already. But did anyone see the Batman Begins movie?What was the powder that the ninja leader used? He would throw it and it would explode on impact. Is this real stuff? Not planning on making anything like that 'till I have much more experiance and know more about chemistry, but it would make for interesting research.

Thanks.

sounds like flash bang powder but I have not seen the movie

Potaasium permaganate and phosphorus works like that when thrown against something. Not too stable though and VERY HOT! :o

Both of these are unstable and mixing them is dangerous. Frankly, powders that explode when thrown are little too dangerous for most real-life applications, but they do exist. Most of them include either chlorate or phosphorous(or both if it is made by some twisted person wanting to clean gene pool of all pyros) and are prone to exploding in mixing process. Refer to Fireworks like granddads used to make for further information. But if your qustion is if it is possible, then very well yes. I have not seen the movie, though.

You guys sound dangerous but fun loving ;D I stick to rotten eggs.

I buy my pitch from an optical supply house . The pure stuff cost more . Its used for polishing lens and mirrors with cerium oxide. In case someone doesn't have a supply of pine trees around. ;)

wrote on Nov 7^th, 2005 at 2:24pm:

So Billy, let me tell you this: Pipe bombs are illegal. Lighting tennis balls full of gasoline is NOT to be done anywhere near any person that is dumb enough to kick this pocket inferno at you and you should do it yet farther away from any cars or property which does not belong to you. You can burn your car to the ground and nobody would care, but endangering other people by mere ignorance is showing that you should stay away from these things as you will blow yourself up soon probably. Igniting pipe bombs near people is bad and generally frowned upon by most legislatives. Pipe bomb that fly after ignition is not strong, but it is a sign that the explosive inside it was poorly made and slow burning. Anyone know that by lighting the aerosol jet from any can marked as "(Highly) Flammable" makes for a nice spray of fire until flame burns the nozzle away and causes a explosion that will shatter the can in your hand, leaving you severely burned, missing a hand and blinded by high-temperature expanding gasses and flying fragments. Breaking any pressurized container marked by "Do not try to open this as it will explode in the proccess", as they are usually marked like this, is foolish. Things like "Oh yeah, I made a fireball which almost set me on fire and pipebomb which almost injured several innocent bystanders" are unwelcomed by many people belonging to this forum as far as I know. Four post in a row are unnecessary as you can use edit button. If you have read previous post, then you know that I am also interested in pyrochemistry and that I play with a fire(and not only fire) pretty much and for long. I have had several accidents, but they were all caused by unpredicable circumstances and not by my foolishness. Also, I sport all twenty fingers and my scars are not caused by pyrotechnic. I have never injured anybody else, letting alone someone unconcerned. One thing you should remember: Making pyrotechnics, incendiaries, destructive devices and related things can be fun, but it is DEADLY SERIOUS bussiness. I know it. In this hobby, second chances are not given. Unless you are really very carefull, you are looking at mangling or killing yourself or someone else in a short period of time. Either grow up or quit this hobby. Who actually read this to the very end?

I read the whole thing . How do you hold anything with no thumbs ? :D Just kidding ..

Seriously , I think your post is great and needfull . Thats why I suggest rotten eggs . But then someone could get injured there to . I witnessed a young girl getting minor cuts on her exposed leg from a thrown egg  :-X

No thumbs? What? I have four thumbs, one on each hand and one on each leg. I am afraid I did not catch the joke...
Imagine ancient chinese master armed with a rotten egg... Now that would be awesome: Flying rotten egg of death.
Yeah, I should go and try to have some sleep before my REALLY intelligent ideas will start to appear :-[.

You make thing explode by throwing them at things by including shock sensitive detonators. Actually for this purpose most domestic caps will ignite gunpowder.

The only tricky bit is carrying them around without jarring them. This is probably why ninjas carry them it's all that soft walking training they do.

But seriously little gadgets you throw and go flash or bang - very easy to make. In fact for all your non finger loving fools. Try red roll caps as your detonators and finely shaved matches as your 'explosive'.
:-)
Have fun and probably best to wear asbestos underwear if you intend to put them in your pocket.